Fit VST in the rack

Have any feature requests? No promise they'll get to Reason Studios, but you can still discuss them here.
Post Reply
Frankdw
Posts: 31
Joined: 13 Feb 2016

04 Oct 2017

How about sticking the VST's 'in' the rack instead of outside.... add another rack which is wider then the 'normal' ones and do something as in the example ? Just a thought?
Cheers
F
Attachments
Reason VST Re-arrange Vs001.jpg
Reason VST Re-arrange Vs001.jpg (171.71 KiB) Viewed 2976 times

User avatar
Exowildebeest
Posts: 1553
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

04 Oct 2017

I think it's extremely difficult or impossible to make that work. VST's are designed to be floating windows, and some can be rescaled, but many can't. Trying to fit that into the rack is the software equivalent of trying to put a square peg in a round hole.

User avatar
chimp_spanner
Posts: 2907
Joined: 06 Mar 2015

04 Oct 2017

Works fine(ish) until you encounter a VST that is too wide, at which point you either have to pan/scroll, or zoom out, or just have a fragmented system where VSTs less than or equal to the rack width are displayed in place, and everything else opens in a pop out window. I think I'm okay with all popouts ;)

User avatar
qn5
Posts: 137
Joined: 29 Nov 2016
Location: NYC
Contact:

05 Oct 2017

Frankdw wrote:
04 Oct 2017
How about sticking the VST's 'in' the rack instead of outside.... add another rack which is wider then the 'normal' ones and do something as in the example ? Just a thought?
Cheers
F
As much as I'd love this (I HATE managing/opening/closing the floating VST windows), I doubt this'll ever happen.
QN5 MUSIC
qn5.com

Frankdw
Posts: 31
Joined: 13 Feb 2016

05 Oct 2017

I understand the scaling issue, but I would therefor create a 'big enough' rack especially for VST's where they can appear at their 'normal' size...
I have no understanding about the difficulties in programming, but I can imagine it 'seeming simple' but being the opposite. It was just a thought as you kinda get used in the REASON Rack 'organising racks system... Its not a 'must', but could be great and would be rather cool as VST's then become more 'reason-ified' ;-)
cheers
f

User avatar
Ahornberg
Posts: 1904
Joined: 15 Jan 2016
Location: Vienna, Austria
Contact:

05 Oct 2017

maybe have a look at Reaper ... in Reaper you can "dock" floating windows and they made it also work for VST windows.

User avatar
Alkua
Posts: 281
Joined: 30 Apr 2015

05 Oct 2017

I think, if the VST developers make a version with a fixed dimension specially for reason can be good. They just have to change the source code to a size the fix the rack (wide) and PH can make a new device (like a combinator) to hold those VSTs that meet the size requirements.

User avatar
LABONERECORDINGS
RE Developer
Posts: 401
Joined: 16 Jan 2015
Location: UK
Contact:

05 Oct 2017

To be honest, with 4k screens now and VSTs getting their panels rescaled to super large, unfortunately going 'into' the rack is unlikely...

Arturia on 4k 48in looks awesome though, and Vengeance Avenger holy moly...

User avatar
joeyluck
Moderator
Posts: 11029
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

05 Oct 2017

This was my proposition:

- Adding some assignable knobs that can maybe be pre-assigned to popular parameters (and perhaps selectable via a dropdown, and not having to visit a programmer). This would help to not have to pop out a window just to access a one or a few controls.

- Having two buttons on the screenshot screen, one to 'detach ↑' (as you now know it to perform), and another to 'open ↓' which would display it in a window attached to the device which would fit within the rack.

- I included sliders on both the vertical and horizontal (thinking some may prefer it to not take up all the vertical real estate), but perhaps this could also behave the same as the Combinator where it expands vertically as far as it must?

This example uses Zebra, but also in a larger view just to see how it would feel with sliders both vertical and horizontal. The 80% or so view of Zebra fits within the width of the Rack. Maybe it could be smart enough to scale those VSTs which can be scalable?

I see this as a way to quickly edit those few parameters you want to get to without having to juggle floating windows. It's a way to see most or some or all of an interface without floating windows. And it's perfectly feasible for most VSTs to fit their entire GUI here anyways. And it would not remove the ability to pop them out into a separate window. So you could always do that when you want.

VST-attached-with-knobs.png
VST-attached-with-knobs.png (422.91 KiB) Viewed 2836 times

Frankdw
Posts: 31
Joined: 13 Feb 2016

07 Oct 2017

joeyluck wrote:
05 Oct 2017
This was my proposition:

- Adding some assignable knobs that can maybe be pre-assigned to popular parameters (and perhaps selectable via a dropdown, and not having to visit a programmer). This would help to not have to pop out a window just to access a one or a few controls.

- Having two buttons on the screenshot screen, one to 'detach ↑' (as you now know it to perform), and another to 'open ↓' which would display it in a window attached to the device which would fit within the rack.

- I included sliders on both the vertical and horizontal (thinking some may prefer it to not take up all the vertical real estate), but perhaps this could also behave the same as the Combinator where it expands vertically as far as it must?

This example uses Zebra, but also in a larger view just to see how it would feel with sliders both vertical and horizontal. The 80% or so view of Zebra fits within the width of the Rack. Maybe it could be smart enough to scale those VSTs which can be scalable?

I see this as a way to quickly edit those few parameters you want to get to without having to juggle floating windows. It's a way to see most or some or all of an interface without floating windows. And it's perfectly feasible for most VSTs to fit their entire GUI here anyways. And it would not remove the ability to pop them out into a separate window. So you could always do that when you want.

VST-attached-with-knobs.png
Exactly!

groggy1
Posts: 466
Joined: 10 Jun 2015

09 Oct 2017

joeyluck wrote:
05 Oct 2017
This was my proposition:

- Adding some assignable knobs that can maybe be pre-assigned to popular parameters (and perhaps selectable via a dropdown, and not having to visit a programmer). This would help to not have to pop out a window just to access a one or a few controls.
...
Joey, I think you got it right: A way to "dock" a VST and have it show a simpler in-rack UX when it's dock would be wonderful.

antic604

15 Nov 2017

Self explanatory, I guess? I think it would be really great if Reason's VST wrapper "simply" scaled the VSTs up or down to fit them in a rack, so that they look & feel consistent with the physical gear metaphor that Reason is built upon.

User avatar
NekujaK
Posts: 631
Joined: 09 Oct 2016
Location: USA

15 Nov 2017

IMHO the only way this works is if the Reason rack itself is able to scale (which it can't right now). A lot of VSTs would simply be too small to read and manipulate effectively if they were scaled down into the current rack configuration. I really appreciate having larger VST interfaces, especially those that scale. After working with VSTs, it becomes obvious how tiny a lot of RE interfaces are.

That's just my 2 cents...
wreaking havoc with :reason: since 2.5
:arrow: https://soundcloud.com/nekujak-donnay/sets

antic604

15 Nov 2017

NekujaK wrote:
15 Nov 2017
IMHO the only way this works is if the Reason rack itself is able to scale (which it can't right now). A lot of VSTs would simply be too small to read and manipulate effectively if they were scaled down into the current rack configuration. I really appreciate having larger VST interfaces, especially those that scale. After working with VSTs, it becomes obvious how tiny a lot of RE interfaces are.

That's just my 2 cents...
Oh, I definitely agree - had my fair share of complaints about Reason's GUI on this forum... :)

However, it'd be great to have a per-plugin toggle to choose if its UI gets docked in Rack or not and everyone could set this to taste. Obviously, I've no idea if this 'docking' thing is at all possible from programming point of view, because if it was simple we'd already have all DAWs providing plugin scaling. I can imagine it's easy to scale the graphics itself, but the whole logic behind clicking, dragging & switching things or the dynamic displays, knob/fader animations, etc. that is probably handled by plugin itself in some relative fashion and it has to be explicitly coded in and maybe isn't exposed to the host? I've no idea, just thought this would 'fit' into Reason's rack metaphor.

User avatar
esselfortium
Posts: 1456
Joined: 15 Jan 2015
Contact:

15 Nov 2017

This probably isn't feasible for all VSTs, but it would be useful if even a few popular ones could be accessed this way.
Sarah Mancuso
My music: Future Human

User avatar
EnochLight
Moderator
Posts: 8405
Joined: 17 Jan 2015
Location: Imladris

15 Nov 2017

antic604 wrote:
15 Nov 2017
Self explanatory, I guess? I think it would be really great if Reason's VST wrapper "simply" scaled the VSTs up or down to fit them in a rack, so that they look & feel consistent with the physical gear metaphor that Reason is built upon.
Ugh... I am going to say that I actually prefer how it's handled right now. Your suggestion would make things like Avenger (among many others) virtually impossible to use:

tiny_much.jpg
tiny_much.jpg (491.48 KiB) Viewed 2587 times
Win 10 | Ableton Live 11 Suite |  Reason 12 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, MX1, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD

User avatar
joeyluck
Moderator
Posts: 11029
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

15 Nov 2017

antic604 wrote:
15 Nov 2017
Self explanatory, I guess? I think it would be really great if Reason's VST wrapper "simply" scaled the VSTs up or down to fit them in a rack, so that they look & feel consistent with the physical gear metaphor that Reason is built upon.
I've merged this with the existing topic in the feature suggestions forum.

antic604

15 Nov 2017

EnochLight wrote:
15 Nov 2017
Ugh... I am going to say that I actually prefer how it's handled right now. Your suggestion would make things like Avenger (among many others) virtually impossible to use
Yes, I can see that therefore in my 2nd post I suggested this could be choosable per-plugin.

I just really like consistency, that's all. I also wouldn't mind if we could detatch Reason's native synths to floating windows, but maybe except for Europa, Grain and Thor everything else would have to be heavily reworked / uprezzed. Or to be able to zoom the Rack in/out as was suggested in other threads. I actually wouldn't even mind if things stayed as pixelated as they are now - it has its charm :)

User avatar
EnochLight
Moderator
Posts: 8405
Joined: 17 Jan 2015
Location: Imladris

15 Nov 2017

antic604 wrote:
15 Nov 2017
I actually wouldn't even mind if things stayed as pixelated as they are now - it has its charm :)


Yeah um, I'm going to have to 100% wholeheartedly disagree with you on that one lol! :lol: :lol:
Win 10 | Ableton Live 11 Suite |  Reason 12 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, MX1, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD

antic604

16 Nov 2017

EnochLight wrote:
15 Nov 2017
Yeah um, I'm going to have to 100% wholeheartedly disagree with you on that one lol! :lol: :lol:
Well, it's just like those indie games, that mimic the look of 16-bit computer / console games. I appreciate it.

But sure, I wouldn't mind a wholesale GUI refresh for 4K screens.

User avatar
EnochLight
Moderator
Posts: 8405
Joined: 17 Jan 2015
Location: Imladris

16 Nov 2017

antic604 wrote:
16 Nov 2017
But sure, I wouldn't mind a wholesale GUI refresh for 4K screens.
That's really what I want as well.

/begin soapbox batch session

Reason is literally the only app I run on my entire computer that isn't really compatible with 4K screens, and it's the only app that is keeping me from upgrading my aging "old fashioned" 1080p screens. I've passed on awesome 4K panel deal after 4K panel deal just because of Reason, and it's terribly frustrating. The native resolution of the rack is embarrassing, at this point.

/end soapbox batch session :lol: :lol: :lol:

A "pop-out" window for native rack devices in high res could solve this, but would make managing the rear of the rack a problem.
Win 10 | Ableton Live 11 Suite |  Reason 12 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, MX1, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD

Post Reply
  • Information
  • Who is online

    Users browsing this forum: DotNetDotCom.org [Bot] and 1 guest