Anyone else kinda wish we didn't get VST support?

Discuss VST stuff here!
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XysteR
Posts: 421
Joined: 20 Nov 2015

26 Jul 2017

Pfff Waves central plugin manager. NI Service center etc etc.. All this crap running just to use VSTs. Having more in Reason now with VST support has genuinely set me back. I think if VST support was cancelled, the only thing I really love and would miss would be the Valhalla reverbs. The rest is just stuff we already had in the Re store. I know what will happen if my computer crashes and I have to reinstall - I'll just end up Reinstalling Reason and problably dread the VST installers so much, I'll just not bother and sell them on.

VSTs and the whole VST process sucks and I'm seriously considering disabling them all apart from the afore-mentioned favourite.

VSTs installation, registering, activating and general ballachery - Pain in the arse!....

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raymondh
Posts: 1776
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

27 Jul 2017

At the moment, VSTs are the new shiny thing for Reason users. It's easy to get caught up in all the chatter about Serum, Waves plugins, discounted VSTs, etc... but frankly unless there's some aspect of your creative/production process you are lacking, you're not missing out on anything if you ignore the noise. In fact you can avoid all the VST frustrations :)

But for me, I'm very happy to have VST support. There's some VST synths I really like, that are not available as Rack Extensions. If they were, I'd buy them as Rack Extensions because I much prefer the user experience (esp patch browsing, rack UX integration)

So it's great we have the option now, where we didn't before VST support.

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Oquasec
Posts: 2849
Joined: 05 Mar 2017

27 Jul 2017

Surprisingly Yes and no.
Yes cuz hello I'd like not NEEDING A SECOND DAW FOR THAT SHIT and no because they are now using something that is disabled in rewire mode, so using that version makes no sense when in rewired mode.

THEY SHOULD STAY IN REASON.
Last edited by Oquasec on 27 Jul 2017, edited 1 time in total.
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dvdrtldg
Posts: 2386
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27 Jul 2017

Mate nobody's holding a gun to your head or forcing you to use VSTs in Reason. Use them or don't, it's entirely your choice

I've got a small number of VSTs (effects only, no instruments) that complement my REs and I love being able to use them in Reason. But I've avoided anything that causes hassles with licensing & registering - therefore no Waves, nothing requiring iLok etc. All seems pretty manageable but I guess I'll find out for sure when I upgrade the computer next year

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gak
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27 Jul 2017

I kinda wish we'd have gotten the other 600 million things asked for.


But the props, double tracking on us all, decided this was the best route.

Steedus
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27 Jul 2017

Yep, never used VSTs before so after getting my new interface which came with some Softube ones, I thought "YAY VSTs!" .. then the dread set in when I realised what was ahead of me...

- go to Focusrite website, sign up for an account
- active product and retrieve Softube activation link
- sign up for Softube account
- then I'm told I need to sign up to some site called Gobbler, sign up for Gobbler account
- download Gobbler installer, install, log in with account info
- link Gobbler account with iLok account --- FAILED
- email Gobbler who say it's a known issue and they'll get back to me about fixing it
- 2 days later problem gets fixed, iLok account now linked
- download plugins, activate plugins, install licenses on iLok/computer
- open Reason, scan for plugins
- add plugin to session, a second or 2 passes while it reads my license and confirms I'm allow to use the plugin
- make music......

Still happy that it's there and to be able to use them now and then, but I gotta say it's made me look at Rack Extensions in a whole new light!

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Loque
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27 Jul 2017

I like the VSTs in the case, i dont have a proper RE solution for it. But tbh the licensing sucks as hell and i made nearly every VST i checked to crash within minutes. Most VSTs dont like changing patches on devices before them (maybe its a Reason problem with the audio signal) and they also dont like extrem modulation in count and value....

But the weird thing is, i got even more crashes on RE now since 9.5. Maybe its due to PDC...dunno. Actually FET crashes quite often, but its not 100% reproducible...
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Last Alternative
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27 Jul 2017

I got Trillian yesterday. Within the first hour of browsing thru patches it crashed Reason 3x and I lost what I was doing. So now I hit save on even more neurotic OCD intervals than before. WTF
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Ahornberg
Posts: 1904
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27 Jul 2017

Since Reason supports VST I switched completely to Reason.
I sparingly use VSTs but I do and so I like it as it is now.
Interestingly I'm more on REs than before.

sdst
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27 Jul 2017

I have no problem with vst, I still use more REs

but after half a year without any interesting RE, (Only some very very bad synth)

propellerhead did the right thing with vst

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AttenuationHz
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27 Jul 2017

XysteR wrote:
26 Jul 2017
Pfff Waves central plugin manager. NI Service center etc etc.. All this crap running just to use VSTs. Having more in Reason now with VST support has genuinely set me back. I think if VST support was cancelled, the only thing I really love and would miss would be the Valhalla reverbs. The rest is just stuff we already had in the Re store. I know what will happen if my computer crashes and I have to reinstall - I'll just end up Reinstalling Reason and problably dread the VST installers so much, I'll just not bother and sell them on.

VSTs and the whole VST process sucks and I'm seriously considering disabling them all apart from the afore-mentioned favourite.

VSTs installation, registering, activating and general ballachery - Pain in the arse!....
First off you don't have to have any of that stuff running at all! There is many many VST's that are not RE Waves/NI/FabFilter/Izotope to name a few.

If you don't have a time machine back up or a windows image back up then you're asking for trouble both of which will back up all your installs.

I'm not too sure how installing software is a pain in the arse for you its pretty much a requirement if you want to use it.

I'm really sure you're contradicting yourself by saying you'll miss Valhalla reverbs and then going on to say VST's and the whole VST process sucks. Guess what you don't have to use them if you don't want to you can just remove all the folders from preferences and not have to deal with them.

I'd love to hear what would make the usage experience better for you?

If at any stage VST support was dropped I know exactly what I'd be doing sticking with the Supported VST version. This is only the start of a new era for Reason why would they drop support for a massive feature that took so long to implement. Its still early days yet and there is plenty I don't like about VST implementation but is it better to constructively criticize a feature by stating your opinion on how you'd like to see it done by providing Propellerhead with the feedback and or suggestion. Or starting a thread and just having a rant about it. You lessen the chance of it being a feature! They are surprisingly open to suggestions! feedback@propellerheads.se
Last edited by AttenuationHz on 27 Jul 2017, edited 1 time in total.
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Fantom Frost
Posts: 10
Joined: 03 Jun 2017

27 Jul 2017

I like the option and have only used the auturia ones so far. But I really don't need to overload my old mac. Still many are fun to play with. I especially like the yamaha cs80

I dont think i could load anything spectrasonic though

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esselfortium
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27 Jul 2017

Nope, I'm thrilled :puf_smile:

I only have a few VSTs so far and I've still found myself relying mostly on rack devices to get the sounds I want, but having Kontakt in the rack is a godsend, and freebies like PG-8X and Panagement have been great additions to my workflow.

I generally try to keep my plugin spending pretty minimal, but being able to choose from any of the options out there makes me very happy. As much as I've always enjoyed working with Reason, there was always some envy of tools and libraries that were only available elsewhere, and VST support scratches that itch very effectively.
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jonheal
Posts: 1213
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Location: Springfield, VA, USA
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27 Jul 2017

Since VST support was added, the following has occurred:
  • I gained five pounds
  • Two of our three cats started peeing on the carpet again
  • A mouse took up residence, and then died in the guts of our refrigerator
  • I am hearing the voices again.
Other than that, it has been A-OK.
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JiggeryPokery
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27 Jul 2017

XysteR wrote:
26 Jul 2017
Pfff Waves central plugin manager. NI Service center etc etc.. All this crap running just to use VSTs. Having more in Reason now with VST support has genuinely set me back. I think if VST support was cancelled, the only thing I really love and would miss would be the Valhalla reverbs. The rest is just stuff we already had in the Re store. I know what will happen if my computer crashes and I have to reinstall - I'll just end up Reinstalling Reason and problably dread the VST installers so much, I'll just not bother and sell them on.

VSTs and the whole VST process sucks and I'm seriously considering disabling them all apart from the afore-mentioned favourite.

VSTs installation, registering, activating and general ballachery - Pain in the arse!....


Well, ok, if all you use are types of things that are available in the RE store, then sure, you're right, why bother with those equivalent VSTs?

But when you need something of which there is nothing comparable in the RE store, of which there are plenty of things, then VST support has been a bonus.

Your general assessment of the install process is, however, mostly valid. The website signups, the download installers, the control and licensing software, and VST installers generally is tiresome (although from my limited experience I can't say I've noticed ever needing the control software running to use plugins; once they are licensed they are licensed and the DAW just runs the plugin). The amount of swearing required to properly describe the process would be enough to get not only the person writing it banned, but everyone who read it, booted out by association. :puf_wink: : And of course, the only people who suffer these installation punishments are the legitmate users. I suppose warez users get exactly the same stuff but without the hassle.

I suspect there's a few people out there who having rushed to download everything they can, are now snowed in under useless plugins, which they don't uninstall because "I might need it one day", when they never will. Ideally, one should pick and choose the things to acquire based on actual need. I've grabbed only a couple of things, Arturia V (and even then I didn't really like the organ stuff as frankly, I think mine sound better :lol: ) and the MusicLab, the latter of which has nothing comparable in Reason, on any level.

One thing I would note however, is that Reason now desperately needs the ability for users to set up their own device menus, particularly to hide unneeded devices, and allow sorting by type rather than dev (as a Dev, sorting by Dev is fucking cool, but as a user it's fucking thick), including the ability to set up ones own type lists, that way one could, for example, set up ones lists to distinguish between different variants of the same type of device, e.g. delay (tape/analog/digital), or reverb (algo/convolution etc). I've noticed a tendency for VST plugins to install multiple versions of the same plugin. I'm not sure I really need to always see four versions of the same plugin.
Last edited by JiggeryPokery on 27 Jul 2017, edited 1 time in total.

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tiker01
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27 Jul 2017

JiggeryPokery wrote:
27 Jul 2017
XysteR wrote:
26 Jul 2017
Pfff Waves central plugin manager. NI Service center etc etc.. All this crap running just to use VSTs. Having more in Reason now with VST support has genuinely set me back. I think if VST support was cancelled, the only thing I really love and would miss would be the Valhalla reverbs. The rest is just stuff we already had in the Re store. I know what will happen if my computer crashes and I have to reinstall - I'll just end up Reinstalling Reason and problably dread the VST installers so much, I'll just not bother and sell them on.

VSTs and the whole VST process sucks and I'm seriously considering disabling them all apart from the afore-mentioned favourite.

VSTs installation, registering, activating and general ballachery - Pain in the arse!....
I've grabbed only a couple of things, Arturia V (and even then I didn't really the organ stuff as frankly, I think mine sound better :lol: ) ....
Hey JP!

How good you think the Arturia stuff is? They were tempting me with the 199$ offer recently but I haven't bought them. Tried 3 from the bundle but felt they were just a bunch of new toys. I am rather saving for Nostromo 2 and a new computer.

Cheers
TKR01
    
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jonheal
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27 Jul 2017

JiggeryPokery wrote:
27 Jul 2017
One thing I would note however, is that Reason now desperately needs the ability for users to set up their own device menus, particularly to hide unneeded devices, and allow sorting by type rather than dev (as a Dev, sorting by Dev is f***ing cool, but as a user it's f***ing thick), including the ability to set up ones own type lists, that way one could, for example, set up ones lists to distinguish between different variants of the same type of device, e.g. delay (tape/analog/digital), or reverb (algo/convolution etc). I've noticed a tendency for VST plugins to install multiple versions of the same plugin. I'm not sure I really need to always see four versions of the same plugin.
Language!

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kuhliloach
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Joined: 09 Dec 2015

27 Jul 2017

Adding VST's is obviously a must it just happened about ten years too late. What I "wish" is that Propellerheads would start taking software development more seriously. Reason is about half finished and it seems there is no sense of urgency surrounding its completion. There are basic gaping holes in Reason's overall functionality and UI design that are completely inexcusable for "commercial" software, but might make sense in a freeware environment. Sometimes I wonder if Reason's entire development team is one person who is extremely annoyed and underpaid.

Hauser+Quaid
Posts: 147
Joined: 06 Jun 2017

27 Jul 2017

Not at all. Since adding VST support I can now finish whole projects with just Reason. I already had VSTs/AUs/AAX for years, it's nothing new to me. They were already installed on my system. Now being able to use them in Reason w/o some Rewire or whatever is fantastic!

And I still continue to support REs as well. Bought a bunch in the recent sales. So all good for me over here. As others have said, you don't HAVE to use them. You don't HAVE to install anything.

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jonheal
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27 Jul 2017

kuhliloach wrote:
27 Jul 2017
Adding VST's is obviously a must it just happened about ten years too late. What I "wish" is that Propellerheads would start taking software development more seriously. Reason is about half finished and it seems there is no sense of urgency surrounding its completion. There are basic gaping holes in Reason's overall functionality and UI design that are completely inexcusable for "commercial" software, but might make sense in a freeware environment. Sometimes I wonder if Reason's entire development team is one person who is extremely annoyed and underpaid.
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groggy1
Posts: 466
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27 Jul 2017

Hauser+Quaid wrote:
27 Jul 2017
Not at all. Since adding VST support I can now finish whole projects with just Reason. I already had VSTs/AUs/AAX for years, it's nothing new to me. They were already installed on my system. Now being able to use them in Reason w/o some Rewire or whatever is fantastic!

And I still continue to support REs as well. Bought a bunch in the recent sales. So all good for me over here. As others have said, you don't HAVE to use them. You don't HAVE to install anything.
+1

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Oquasec
Posts: 2849
Joined: 05 Mar 2017

27 Jul 2017

They answered the external plugins thing with 7.
They integrated vsts into reason natively, which means now you can utilize cv connections.

Which is now a problem cuz they don't work that way in rewire unless you just do the old method with emi again lol.
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JiggeryPokery
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27 Jul 2017

tiker01 wrote:
27 Jul 2017
JiggeryPokery wrote:
27 Jul 2017


I've grabbed only a couple of things, Arturia V (and even then I didn't really like the organ stuff as frankly, I think mine sound better :lol: ) ....
Hey JP!

How good you think the Arturia stuff is? They were tempting me with the 199$ offer recently but I haven't bought them. Tried 3 from the bundle but felt they were just a bunch of new toys. I am rather saving for Nostromo 2 and a new computer.

Cheers
TKR01
I just wanted their Arp 2600V really, but that bundle deal at £200 was difficult to pass up to get the lovely CS80V, and all the other synths too, even if, ultimately, they probably do all start to sound a bit alike (Synclavier aside, perhaps, that's pretty unique). So, they're all really good, but I wonder if anyone really needs all of them.

The big problem with getting a job lot I quickly realised is that ultimately, one probably doesn't have time to learn how to program any of them.

The organs I don't rate at all, although one might think "well, you would say that, wouldn't you?" ;), but I vastly prefer mine even if the samples make them a little more limited in tweakage. For the e-keys, their Wurlie is waaaaaaay better than that horrid whatever the hell it is trying to pass itself off as a Wurlie thing in Radical Keys (fans of the excellent Wurlie from Electromechanical will be heaven, it's that ... but even better); the Arturia Rhodes is pretty good too, but it's tougher to recommend over the one in RadKeys generally, but it is a rather more tweakable specifically, so that's more of a draw. Their acoustic piano is ok, but I happened to get an Addictive Keys license with my new Focusrite, so I got the Addictive Upright, which is right bloody marvellous.

Overall the Arturia is pretty good for synths and e-pianos. I don't feel anyone would be disappointed with the bundle at $200, even if some devices go unused; but only get anything if you actually need it, and it sounds to me like you kinda want it more than you need it ;)

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tobypearce
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27 Jul 2017

I'm pleased they added support.

Valhalla reverbs are excellent.
Fabfilter Pro Q2 is also excellent.
Dune 2 is a fantastic synth.
Some of the older IK Multimedia stuff is well worth checking out.
Cableguys Volume shaper is great for sidechaining.

Most notably, all of these are very light on CPU. There are RE equivalents but these all seem to burn through CPU much faster.

I'm with you on the gear porn issue - that's a distraction that I took for granted not having to deal with previously. Now I have to watch myself. But if the discipline is there, just these few VSTs considerably improve my workflow.
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electrochoc (PRX-A)
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27 Jul 2017

XysteR wrote:
26 Jul 2017
Pfff Waves central plugin manager. NI Service center etc etc.. All this crap running just to use VSTs. Having more in Reason now with VST support has genuinely set me back. I think if VST support was cancelled, the only thing I really love and would miss would be the Valhalla reverbs. The rest is just stuff we already had in the Re store. I know what will happen if my computer crashes and I have to reinstall - I'll just end up Reinstalling Reason and problably dread the VST installers so much, I'll just not bother and sell them on.

VSTs and the whole VST process sucks and I'm seriously considering disabling them all apart from the afore-mentioned favourite.

VSTs installation, registering, activating and general ballachery - Pain in the arse!....
JiggeryPokery wrote:
27 Jul 2017
Well, ok, if all you use are types of things that are available in the RE store, then sure, you're right, why bother with those equivalent VSTs?

But when you need something of which there is nothing comparable in the RE store, of which there are plenty of things, then VST support has been a bonus.

Your general assessment of the install process is, however, mostly valid. The website signups, the download installers, the control and licensing software, and VST installers generally is tiresome (...).

I suspect there's a few people out there who having rushed to download everything they can, are now snowed in under useless plugins, which they don't uninstall because "I might need it one day", when they never will. Ideally, one should pick and choose the things to acquire based on actual need.
I agree that some VST installation are tiresome, but when one only goes for things that really benefit his sound, it's not that much trouble... I myself have only installed a few VSTs that I felt were unique enough to bring something fresh in my music (a couple of free ones plus some demos of VSTs I plan to buy anyways), and, up to now, I'm happy with the trouble/benefits ratio. For all the rest, I'm staying with the Rack Extension format, but mainly because it's more convenient, better integrated into the Reason environment and, yes, easier to reinstall...
JiggeryPokery wrote:
27 Jul 2017
One thing I would note however, is that Reason now desperately needs the ability for users to set up their own device menus, particularly to hide unneeded devices, and allow sorting by type rather than dev (as a Dev, sorting by Dev is fucking cool, but as a user it's fucking thick), including the ability to set up ones own type lists, that way one could, for example, set up ones lists to distinguish between different variants of the same type of device, e.g. delay (tape/analog/digital), or reverb (algo/convolution etc). I've noticed a tendency for VST plugins to install multiple versions of the same plugin. I'm not sure I really need to always see four versions of the same plugin.
There's always the possibility to hide (desactivate) the versions of a VST that you don't need... But I agree with the general idea: I would really like to be able to make my own lists of plugins, mostly since I have a lot of REs and that I tend to use them as "groups" (Ivoks with Viking and Malstrom with Noxious for example, but never Ivoks with Malstrom or Viking with Noxious: so I'd like to put Malstrom and Noxious in one list, and Ivoks and Viking in one another...)
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