Avenger (Vengeance Sounds) Stutters and lags

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wwwobbler
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07 Jul 2017

Hello. I just purchased Avenger 1.1.2 and installed it in Reason 9.5.1 on my Mac. Sadly, I only experience stutters, lags and unlistenable audio when playing back some quick midi notes.

I have tried to enable/disable the new Hyper Threading thingie, but there's no difference. Anyone knows how to fix this? Is my mac (3.3GHz i5) too slow to use this particular VST? As a side note, I can run multiple instances of Nexus 2 without any signs of hiccups, as well as Spire, Serum and just about any VST I have thrown at Reason.

cheers,
Markus
Last edited by wwwobbler on 07 Jul 2017, edited 3 times in total.

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LABONERECORDINGS
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07 Jul 2017

Got Avenger here too, not sure if there's a quality setting within Avenger that you might be able to lower (being such a powerhouse that it is, imagine there is one in there somewhere)

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wwwobbler
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07 Jul 2017

LABONERECORDINGS wrote:
07 Jul 2017
Got Avenger here too, not sure if there's a quality setting within Avenger that you might be able to lower (being such a powerhouse that it is, imagine there is one in there somewhere)
So what you're saying is that you can run Avenger just fine? Mac/PC? And, if there now would exist a lower-quality-setting somewhere, how would that affect the audio quality? I guess to the worse, but then again – not being able to play things in sync at all is even worse.

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LABONERECORDINGS
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07 Jul 2017

What soundcard are you using? or using CoreAudio?

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wwwobbler
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07 Jul 2017

LABONERECORDINGS wrote:
07 Jul 2017
What soundcard are you using? or using CoreAudio?
I'm using the Propellerheads Balance-card. I just made and uploaded a video just to show the differences between Avenger and other VST:s:

Last edited by wwwobbler on 07 Jul 2017, edited 1 time in total.

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LABONERECORDINGS
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07 Jul 2017

Balance as your soundcard seems relatively old, what OSX are you running too? Might be worth looking at getting a better grade soundcard.

We'll do some testing tonight on this, to compare for you

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wwwobbler
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07 Jul 2017

Running the latest MacOS Sierra (10.12.5). Although Balance is pretty old, it is a CoreAudio compatible interface and does not require any drivers on Mac. And again, I've had no earlier problems with any other RE-instrument nor VST.

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submonsterz
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07 Jul 2017

I just tested vps avenger out after seeing your post I had not tried it after the updating reason yesterday .
My findings are on win 10 64bit pc. Using my old emu 18/20 audio interface !!!
With ht on I'm only seeing around a 1-2 % load increase in CPU meter in avenger . This is using any mode set in sys on avenger I leave it on high dose mode makes no impact on my machine here.
Highest I got avenger to read out on one of the heaviest patches was just over 30% on the CPU meter in avenger and reasons DSP bars was flickering on between 1 and two DSP bars .
I got it that high keep pressing """all""" my keys on my mpk mini MK2 keyboard
I tried several patches from each factory sound category no hiccups here . But it uses as I say between 1 - 2 % less on the avengers CPU meter with ht turned off.
Hope that helps .

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wwwobbler
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07 Jul 2017

submonsterz wrote:
07 Jul 2017
I just tested vps avenger out after seeing your post I had not tried it after the updating reason yesterday .
My findings are on win 10 64bit pc. Using my …
Hi, and thanks for your reply. It seems like either A.) the PC-version is much more optimised for R9.5 compared to when running it under MacOS or B.) My iMac doesn't cut it at all (which is strange since all my other VST:s work flawlessly).

In regards to the audio card: I disabled the Propellerheads Balance, and went all internal. I even made another quick video about that:


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submonsterz
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07 Jul 2017

wwwobbler wrote:
07 Jul 2017
Running the latest MacOS Sierra (10.12.5). Although Balance is pretty old, it is a CoreAudio compatible interface and does not require any drivers on Mac. And again, I've had no earlier problems with any other RE-instrument nor VST.
Judging by looks Ng at your video and you on Mac I'd suggest if you haven't tried all ready it looks like a FPS problem you have .
Go to sys tab and check the setting there in avenger that it's set to eco mode .see if that improves it for you .

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wwwobbler
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07 Jul 2017

submonsterz wrote:
07 Jul 2017
Go to sys tab and check the setting there in avenger that it's set to eco mode .see if that improves it for you .
Yes, it is/was set to Eco. When trying the other modes things got worse (albeit being really bad from the start)

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submonsterz
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07 Jul 2017

wwwobbler wrote:
07 Jul 2017
submonsterz wrote:
07 Jul 2017
Go to sys tab and check the setting there in avenger that it's set to eco mode .see if that improves it for you .
Yes, it is/was set to Eco. When trying the other modes things got worse (albeit being really bad from the start)
I think there was a thread before think it was Enochlight started it about best vst plugging or something and if remember right there were other Mac users having issues like yours .
Was something to do with the frame rate and Mac's resolution maybe that thread might help you .
Search under that users posts to find it might help contacting a Mac user from there via message if the answer to your woes is not there .
Sorry I can't help with the Mac issues :(
One last thing to try as always is set to 44.1 khz
And up sample rate on asio driver to around 50millisecs to try and test if that improves it also .

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wwwobbler
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07 Jul 2017

Sorry I can't help with the Mac issues :(

No worries. Thank you for trying to help out. Hopefully, someone else might have a solution to the problem (thinking of graphics performance: my iMac is running this "retina" resolution (native screen size is 5120 x 2880 pixels), and something might be inflicting with the VST:s own graphic rendering. Or maybe not.)

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submonsterz
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07 Jul 2017

wwwobbler wrote:
07 Jul 2017
Sorry I can't help with the Mac issues :(

No worries. Thank you for trying to help out. Hopefully, someone else might have a solution to the problem (thinking of graphics performance: my iMac is running this "retina" resolution (native screen size is 5120 x 2880 pixels), and something might be inflicting with the VST:s own graphic rendering. Or maybe not.)
Ahhh retina big problems for some in reason with certain plugs I've seen it mentioned try a native resolution turn off retina and see if that cures that problem hopefully that is what it is and then you'll know what to look for as a fix good luck m8.

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EnochLight
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07 Jul 2017

Not sure if this has anything to do with your issue, but Reason doesn't auto-switch between integrated and discreet graphics under OSX. Have you tried turning that off in OSX?

If you can force only discreet graphics acceleration in OSX, might be worth a shot. I'm on Win 10 and don't have these issues, and I'm using a (literally) decade old GeForce 8800 GTS for graphics.

Definitely reach out to Vengeance with this!
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scratchnsnifff
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07 Jul 2017

I don't think it would be a CPU issue because I remember seeing a side by side comparison with serum and vps avenger actually used a little bit less than serum I'd contact vengeance
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wwwobbler
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07 Jul 2017

I have now tried to boot Reason in Low Res-mode, and the artifacts are much less noticeable than my earlier test, but they're still there. Haven't done much more than played back one of my test files quickly though.

I have been in contact with the props, and they say that it most likely is a bug on the Avenger side (especially since the DSP meters doesn't peak or something). I also got a reply from the Vengeance people, and they said that "I was the first person that ever had contacted them with a Reason-centric question", and since they don't have R9.5 over there I guess it's hard to replicate the bug. But as soon as their programmer is back from vacation he/she will probably have a go at the issues.

My own thoughts are that it's definitively something to do with how MacOS handles graphics, perhaps in combination with the fact that a retina screen draws a lot more power (if not handled the right way).

Oh, I also tried turning my virus protection off (Bitdefender), but that did nothing at all in terms of un-lagging things.

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EnochLight
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07 Jul 2017

wwwobbler wrote:
07 Jul 2017
I have now tried to boot Reason in Low Res-mode, and the artifacts are much less noticeable than my earlier test, but they're still there. Haven't done much more than played back one of my test files quickly though.

I have been in contact with the props, and they say that it most likely is a bug on the Avenger side (especially since the DSP meters doesn't peak or something). I also got a reply from the Vengeance people, and they said that "I was the first person that ever had contacted them with a Reason-centric question", and since they don't have R9.5 over there I guess it's hard to replicate the bug. But as soon as their programmer is back from vacation he/she will probably have a go at the issues.

My own thoughts are that it's definitively something to do with how MacOS handles graphics, perhaps in combination with the fact that a retina screen draws a lot more power (if not handled the right way).

Oh, I also tried turning my virus protection off (Bitdefender), but that did nothing at all in terms of un-lagging things.
Have you tried my recommendation above? Turn off automatic graphic switching?
Win 10 | Ableton Live 11 Suite |  Reason 12 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, MX1, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD

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wwwobbler
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08 Jul 2017

[/quote]
Have you tried my recommendation above? Turn off automatic graphic switching?
[/quote]

As far as I know that's not possible unless you have a Macbook Pro (of which most, newer models have an integrated graphics processor + a discrete graphics processor). My iMac just runs in one mode (and there's no way to turn off/switch between anything). So no, unless I'm totally uninformed regarding stationary Macs I haven't been able to test that idea out.

valankar
Posts: 71
Joined: 24 Sep 2016

30 Mar 2018

Have you found a resolution to this? I have the same issue.

Here are some things that seem to help:

- Set audio buffer side to at least 1024
- On the OSX Display settings, choose Scaled and select one of the larger text settings

Either of these alone seem to make the problem go away, but this is super annoying.

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tobypearce
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08 Apr 2018

Avenger running fine for me on Mac.

It is quite heavy on CPU usage but MUCH better if you create a TRUE init patch with various settings turned off.
For example:
Turn off 2 x default send FX - arts acoustic reverb is wonderful but you don't need it on every patch.
Turn off shaper, which is on by default. Extremely easy to re-enable if you do need it.

I've uploaded the simplest, most bare bones init patch I could make and this has helped me get much more out of Avenger.

By the way, I gotta say that I love the synth all over. The arp alone is wonderful. I kind of wish it wasn't so good, but it is. Every time I try and create a sound in another synth I find I can re-create in Avenger more easily, and get a better end result more quickly.
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Despondo
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08 Apr 2018

I haven't used Avenger much lately, but opened up a few older songs that used it. I am also on a Mac and have noticed the glitches as well. I recently updated to the latest version of the plugin, so I wonder if that broke something? Seemed to run fine on an older version last year when I wrote the tracks.

valankar
Posts: 71
Joined: 24 Sep 2016

15 Dec 2019

I still seem to have this stuttering issue with Reason 11.1. I don't get it. It is only Avenger that gives the problem.

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tobypearce
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15 Dec 2019

I'm not sure why this problem - I'm using Avenger more and more and although it's heavier than other synths for CPU, I wouldn't put it in the class of VSTs that I have to think about before opening them up - especially with already busy projects (like Diva).

The facebook forum for Avenger is really active so you might find help there. Plenty of Reason users.
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valankar
Posts: 71
Joined: 24 Sep 2016

22 Apr 2020

In case anyone else is coming across this, after chatting with support I found that disabling "Use multi-core audio rendering" made a huge difference and get no stutters anymore.

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