EZ Drummer 2

[Axeman]

Hey everyone,

So I just bought 9.5, upgrading from 7. I've been using EZ Drummer with Reaper but have always liked the Reason interface.

I can drag a midi file from the EZ Drummer window into Reason, but it doesn't blow out all the individual drum tracks like it does in Reaper. How can I make it so? I don't have a lot of Reason experience so any input is appreciated.

Thanks,
Bryan.

[WongoTheSane]

Select the clip, press F8 to show he toolbox, open the "Extract Notes to Lanes" option at the bottom, select "Explode" and click "Move". You'll get as many lanes as there are different notes in the clip.

[Axeman]

Thank you Wongo.

Another question...why is it that whenever I drag in an EZ Drummer midi block, it creates a new piano midi track rather than dropping in the EZ Drummer track I just created?

[WongoTheSane]

Thanks.

Another question...why is it that whenever I drag in an EZ Drummer midi block, it creates a new piano midi track rather than dropping in the EZ Drummer track I just created?

There's some debate about that, and it's quite a complex problem. The thing is, MIDI files can be multi-channel. If you dropped a multi-channel file onto a track, what would you expect to happen? PH's answer is: no matter how many channel the file has, let's create as many new tracks as necessary (with ID8 devices, as tracks have to be attached to a device); users can then dispatch the clips wherever they want. Others say: you should only create new tracks when the MIDI file has MORE than one channel, and place it on an existing track when it only has one; I don't want to waste two clicks to do that.

From a recent discussion in the beta forum, it appears PH considered altering that behavior for 9.5, but they were short on time and had to scrap it for the time being. So it might appear soon, but in the meantime, you'll have to drag the clip manually to the EZ Drummer track...

[BPGeez]

Great posts Wongo! I'm Just happy we can use EZDrummer2 Axeman!! Will be awesome

[Axeman]

Yeah, this is going to be a good thing once all the kinks are worked out.

As an example, I've extracted the notes to lanes and get four lanes. Upon playback though, EZD is showing seven tracks active...kick, snare, hi-hat, overhead, ambient and reverb. How do I get these to show up?

This is important as I'd want to export each drum instrument/mic to a WAV file so that the mixing housing can have individual control of each mic.

Thanks.

[WongoTheSane]

Overhead, Ambient and Reverb aren't MIDI tracks IMHO, but audio tracks (effects). I don't have EZ Drummer, so I'm not sure how to handle that (or even whether you need it or not: for instance, if you want to grab the drum pattern to play it with other drum machines, you might want to handle the FX send/returns differently). I'll let others chime in...

[Axeman]

Bump to the top...

I have an inquiry in with PH but so far there has been no response.

[kuhliloach]

Thanks for this thread. I've wishlisted everything Toontrack now (because of Reason 9.5) as I have not heard anything better. I'm curious however, compared to Toontrack, what Reason RE's or Refills do you put in your top 5 acoustic drum libraries?

[Redster]

This is important as I'd want to export each drum instrument/mic to a WAV file so that the mixing housing can have individual control of each mic.

Thanks.

You need to route each output from EZD onto it's own mixer channel.

You can then bounce each individual output to a separate wav file including the overhead etc channels. There have been at least two videos showing how to do this on the forum recently albeit for Kontakt but the principles remain the same. Here's one;

viewtopic.php?f=48&t=7501507

This setup also means you can use insert effects and SSL mixer channel on each channel, use SSL send effects etc aswell as do a whole world of cool reason stuff to each channel like parallel routing, cv control and other funky stuff.

[NekujaK]

What Redster said... Use the multichannel mode in the EZdrummer mixer to assign the mixer channels to different outputs, then route each of the outputs to Individusl mix channels in Reason. The only gotcha is that Reason only supports 8 stereo outputs for VSTs at the moment, so you won't be able to take advantage of all 16 stereo pairs provided by EZdrummer (I posted a question about this recently), but the 8 stereo outs should be enough in most cases.

Keep in mind that even though the EZdrummer mixer may show a channel as mono (the kick drum channel, for example), it's still treated as a stereo pair in terms of outputs. So if the kick drum channel is assigned to output 1 (the default), it's actually outputs 1 and 2 that contain the kick drum signal. It's a little strange in that regard.

In the above scenario, the EZdrummer MIDI file simply goes on one track in Reason, and then you create new mix channels for each of the EZdrummer outputs and route the audio to these mix channels. It works great, and you can still modify the MIDI file as desired.

Hope that helps.

[Redster]

If you assign both the kick and snare to channel 1/2 and then pan them far left and far right in the plugin internal mixer you effectively have 16 mono outputs that can be routed to 16 mono mixer channels. That's how it works in kontakt anyway not sure about EZD as I don't own it.

Bear in mind that overheads and send effect returns should generally remain as a stereo pair.

[NekujaK]

Thanks for this thread. I've wishlisted everything Toontrack now (because of Reason 9.5) as I have not heard anything better. I'm curious however, compared to Toontrack, what Reason RE's or Refills do you put in your top 5 acoustic drum libraries?

I've used the Reason Drums refill and the A-List Drummer REs, but IMHO they don't hold a candle to EZdrummer (or Superior Drummer). Soundwise, EZdrummer with all its EZX expansions offers a huge sonic palette of high quality drum options that can't be beat. On top of that, each EZX comes with tons of style-specific MIDI patterns that can be easily arranged to create the exact drum track you want. EZdrummer's song arranging tools are incredibly useful and easy to work with.

When I switched exclusively to Reason a few years ago and gave up VSTs, the VST I missed the most was EZdrummer. I got so frustrated trying to get similar results from the Reason Drums refill and the A-List REs, that I resorted to using drum loops, which was a reluctant compromise. Having EZdrummer integrated into Reason is a dream come true.

[NekujaK]

If you assign both the kick and snare to channel 1/2 and then pan them far left and far right in the plugin internal mixer you effectively have 16 mono outputs that can be routed to 16 mono mixer channels. That's how it works in kontakt anyway not sure about EZD as I don't own it.

Bear in mind that overheads and send effect returns should generally remain as a stereo pair.

Hmmmm... I think I tried that, but encountered panning issues in Reason's mixer. But I'll try again.

[Redster]

Not sure why that would be. Make sure you are plugging only into the left input (mono) channel on the back of the channel strip and you do not have a blue width knob next to the pan pot on the SSL mix fader?

[NekujaK]

Not sure why that would be. Make sure you are plugging only into the left input (mono) channel on the back of the channel strip and you do not have a blue width knob next to the pan pot on the SSL mix fader?

It works! Apparently, I was doing something different before. Thanks so much for the tip

---------------------

Unfortunately, it gets messy when switching drum kits. When using stereo pairs for all of EZD's outputs, the routings are generally preserved when different drum kits are loaded. But when using the hard-pan L/R mono technique, the channel assignments often get rearranged unpredictably when a new drum kit is loaded. That's understandable, because each kit is mic'ed slightly differently and has varying pieces of gear, but EZD seems to apply a certain amount of consistency for the stereo out assignments, that doesn't always translate in the same way to the split pairs. Not a huge deal, but it does mean each new drum kit needs to be re-cabled to Reason's mixer.

[Redster]

Not sure why that would be. Make sure you are plugging only into the left input (mono) channel on the back of the channel strip and you do not have a blue width knob next to the pan pot on the SSL mix fader?

It works! Apparently, I was doing something different before. Thanks so much for the tip

---------------------

Unfortunately, it gets messy when switching drum kits. When using stereo pairs for all of EZD's outputs, the routings are generally preserved when different drum kits are loaded. But when using the hard-pan L/R mono technique, the channel assignments often get rearranged unpredictably when a new drum kit is loaded. That's understandable, because each kit is mic'ed slightly differently and has varying pieces of gear, but EZD seems to apply a certain amount of consistency for the stereo out assignments, that doesn't always translate in the same way to the split pairs. Not a huge deal, but it does mean each new drum kit needs to be re-cabled to Reason's mixer.

Glad to help.

Bit of a blow with EZD re-assignment.

Like EZD, with Kontakt you can browse between the 3 Studio Drummer preset kits and it maintains the wiring but you need to rework the output buss channels and re-pan. You cant swap individual kit pieces easily without multiple instances.

In Kontakt Studio Drummer I am looking at creating user mixer snapshops with the correct routing stored so I can switch between them easily.

For the record, Reason also looses the cabling when switching NNXT based drum kits within a combinator (like RDK2 or Alt drums). At least with RDK et al you can switch out individual kit pieces easily enough by dragging from the browser and dropping onto an existing NNXT.

It would be nice if we could store mixer channel settings and routing in a combinator or similar patch to prevent the faff - or even have a combinator with 16 audio outs like the VST unit - but is a necessary evil for the sake of the modular environment Reason offers I guess.

[Axeman]

What Redster said... Use the multichannel mode in the EZdrummer mixer to assign the mixer channels to different outputs, then route each of the outputs to Individusl mix channels in Reason. The only gotcha is that Reason only supports 8 stereo outputs for VSTs at the moment, so you won't be able to take advantage of all 16 stereo pairs provided by EZdrummer (I posted a question about this recently), but the 8 stereo outs should be enough in most cases.

Keep in mind that even though the EZdrummer mixer may show a channel as mono (the kick drum channel, for example), it's still treated as a stereo pair in terms of outputs. So if the kick drum channel is assigned to output 1 (the default), it's actually outputs 1 and 2 that contain the kick drum signal. It's a little strange in that regard.

In the above scenario, the EZdrummer MIDI file simply goes on one track in Reason, and then you create new mix channels for each of the EZdrummer outputs and route the audio to these mix channels. It works great, and you can still modify the MIDI file as desired.

Hope that helps.

Thanks everyone for the replies. This will help a lot. With regard to the 8 stereo out limitation, what do you guys eliminate or consider non-essential?

[NekujaK]

With regard to the 8 stereo out limitation, what do you guys eliminate or consider non-essential?

The essentials in a drum setup are: kick, snare, hi-hat, toms, overheads, and room. These will use up 6 of the stereo outs, leaving 2 more pairs that can be allocated to the compression channel, reverb, or percussion instruments (these are dependent on the drum kit). If necessary, you can always double-up a couple of sound sources onto the same output, or use the split stereo technique described by Redster for a couple of the channels.

Keep in mind that most drum patterns are made up of just a kick, snare, and hi-hat, and any cymbals are covered by the overheads. So for most situations, 8 stereo outs will be more than enough.

Good luck!

[Redster]

I would look at putting Kick, Snare and Hats on mono channels. If the snare has top and bottom mics, or the kick has inserted and front skin mics, sum them to mono anyway. Put the toms on a stereo pair and use the internal pan to place them, the cynbals and overheads on a stereo pair each. If you have a mono overhead use a mono channel (of course). That leaves you a few extra stereo pairs to do with as you please (percussion?).

Imagine you are looking at the kit on stage and pan accordingly, which would be kick in centre, snare very slightly justified right, hats a little more right. All stereo pairs central, although you can place the spread of the toms and you see fit sometimes I move slightly left thereby placing the the floor tom to the left of the kit, trying to sit it below the china/R crash.

Switch off any effects and reverb processing within the plugin and use inserts and a reverb send in the SSL for your processing. This will save CPU cycles and make the mixing work more "reasony", based solely in the SSL This has advantages because you can then apply the send reverb you are using through the track to the individual drums which will glue the drums onto the ambient space you are creating with the send reverb and will help you to site the drums into the "room".

YMMV.

[Axeman]

It would appear kick, snare and hi-hat default to mono since there is only 1 L/R slider. I'm guessing this depends on the drum loop selected? I think this was mentioned earlier but the channel outputs don't seem to match the back of the EZD rack in Reason.

[NekujaK]

It would appear kick, snare and hi-hat default to mono since there is only 1 L/R slider. I'm guessing this depends on the drum loop selected? I think this was mentioned earlier but the channel outputs don't seem to match the back of the EZD rack in Reason.

Yup, that's the strangeness I mentioned in an earlier post. Even though EZD's mixer shows the kick and snare as mono channels, they're actually mapped to stereo outs in Reason.

The easiest way to think of it, is that each numbered output channel in EZD corresponds to one stereo output pair in Reason. So....

EZD channel 1 = Reason outputs 1 & 2
EZD channel 2 = Reason outputs 3 & 4
EZD channel 3 = Reason outputs 5 & 6
and so on...

So for the kick drum, you can assign channel 1 in the EZD mixer to the kick, and then route the stereo output pair of 1 & 2 to a Reason mix channel.
...OR...
You can do what Redster described. Assign channel 1 in EZD to both the kick and snare, pan them hard left and right in EZD's mixer, then you can route output 1 and 2 separately to different Reason mix channels, one for the kick, the other for the snare.

The only drawback to the latter technique, is that when you switch drum kits, the mapping will be altered and you'll need to re-assign and re-cable output channels. If you use stereo pairs across the board, the mappings and routings will remain valid in nearly all cases when you switch drum kits.

Hope that helps.

[sepulchre]

Not to derail this thread, but back in the OP the answer was to select a clip, hit F8 and choose Notes to Lanes then click Move. But when I try this the Move button is always grayed out, as if nothing was selected. So what do you do to tell Reason what clip (and its notes) is selected?

Also, I see folks saying that when they drag clips from Ezd they have problems with how they're dropped. I cannot drop a clip at all. Is there something I have to do in the Ezd combo?

Thx,
sep

[NekujaK]

Not to derail this thread, but back in the OP the answer was to select a clip, hit F8 and choose Notes to Lanes then click Move. But when I try this the Move button is always grayed out, as if nothing was selected. So what do you do to tell Reason what clip (and its notes) is selected?

Here are the exact steps:

1. Select a MIDI clip in the Reason sequencer.
2. Press F8 to show the Tools window
3. In the Extract Notes to Lanes section at the bottom, select Explode
4. Click Move

Also, I see folks saying that when they drag clips from Ezd they have problems with how they're dropped. I cannot drop a clip at all. Is there something I have to do in the Ezd combo?

You should be able to drag any MIDI clip from the EZD VST onto Reason's sequencer. The clip can be dragged directly from the arranging lane, the Browse tab, or Search tab. Reason will automatically place the clip on a new track (at the bottom of the sequencer - you will probably need to scroll down to see it), which can be annoying, but you can easily move the clip to the desired track. As far as I know, there are no configurations necessary to enable dragging and dropping of MIDI clips.

[sepulchre]

I haven't had a chance to try exactly what you said yet, I work nights. But I'm wondering, do you have to use explode? I generally do individual drum mixing right in EZD.