I hate how much I'm loving it

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Audiotic
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09 May 2017

I was fine with Reason only! Really!

Everytime I opened Cubase + VSTs (serum+massive+battery) during the last years, I remember thinking... oh wow, this sound is crazy out of the box... but I could never get used to the workflow or the rewire hastle.
I decided to just leave it at that and concentrate on Reason.
I upgraded from 5 to 8 to 9, started trialing and buying REs and was confident that I could do anything in Reason that I could do with VSTs with that little bit of extra effort.
I honestly think, that in the end that little bit of extra-effort I had to invest into the sound with Reason, really supported the overall quality of my tracks...

However... now that I have those Wavetable beasts in Reason... I AM LOVING IT!
Sure, we'll have to get used to the bridge and after (only) 2 days of testing I'm still not completely used to handling the VST windows, but I feel tremendously inspired by the sounds I get from only browsing presets in Serum, Massive or even Battery (the sound library is wav, so I could use all the samples in Kong... but...)! It sounds crazy!

I was on the fence about the whole VST thing, but I'm sold by now!
The timing was perfect. Only now has Reason become "DAW enough" to shine even brighter with VSTs!
I've been ReasonHead for almost 20 years now and it is only now that I feel like I have exactly what I want!

Thanks PH!

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kuhliloach
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09 May 2017

We should consider ourselves extremely lucky right now; a blessing has been bestowed upon us -- that someone with money and common sense showed up at Propellerheads to help them pull their heads out from within their rears. I'm glad the skewed mentality of Propellerhead management (i.e. people capable of something as horrific as Allihoopa) is hopefully coming to an end. Reason deserves respect, not the kind of cloudy judgement and greed that seems to have plagued its development pattern throughout its history.

We are finally hitting the golden age. Personally I'm looking forward to hi-res devices, not this blocky lo-res crap.

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Creativemind
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09 May 2017

Yes, we're definitely in a new era (fingers crossed) in the Reason development process.

I was never against VST in reason, I just never expected to see it. I thought they would have just improved the SDK till it was up to par with VST and we would have seen bigger / better Re's in the shop and maybe some big players join the Re format like we have with Reveal Sound and ReSpire. That may still be on the cards but the way Propellerhead have integrated VST certainly does look very inspiring and a good leap forward for Reason.

Looking forward to seeing what's around the corner. What will Reason 10 offer? surely something as equally mind-blowing as VST integration (as long as they don't neglect the little things in their workflow and audio / midi editing and enhance those also) and who knows where we'll be in 6 months. I'm waiting impatiently in anticipation.
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qn5
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09 May 2017

I've been in the process of porting over midi files and serum presets from ableton to recreate a couple projects in Reason and so far so good.
Although I will say, even on a i7 5960x, a couple of these VST patches (and VK-2) send my machine into a chokehold. Previewing patches (in serum) is also slowpoke city compared to RE's. Almost makes me reluctant to build out full songs with VSTs only at the moment, but I'm hoping they'll implement better multi-core-usage in R10. Still, I really love having all these new sounds at my disposal.
Last edited by qn5 on 09 May 2017, edited 1 time in total.
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Oquasec
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09 May 2017

Nothing wrong with rewire [it was made for reason]
It's only a problem when people try to suggest things as the end all be all without doing any fucking research on everything out there is when that becomes a problem. That's when it's time to correct nonbelievers and go into zeitgeist mode :lol:
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Reason, FLS and Cubase NFR user.

lowpryo
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09 May 2017

qn5 wrote:I've been in the process of porting over midi files and serum presets from ableton to recreate a couple projects in Reason and so far so good.
Although I will say, even on a i7 5960x, a couple of these VST patches (and VK-2) send my machine into a chokehold. Previewing patches (in serum) is also slowpoke city compared to RE's. Almost makes me reluctant to build out full songs with VSTs only at the moment, but I'm hoping they'll implement better multi-core-usage in R10. Still, I really love having all these new sounds at my disposal.
remember that the beta version of Reason 9.5 currently logs all your information, which uses up CPU tremendously. I can't even play half-finished Reason 9 songs in the beta build now. so don't judge CPU performance just yet.

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etyrnal
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10 May 2017

qn5 wrote:I've been in the process of porting over midi files and serum presets from ableton to recreate a couple projects in Reason and so far so good.
Although I will say, even on a i7 5960x, a couple of these VST patches (and VK-2) send my machine into a chokehold. Previewing patches (in serum) is also slowpoke city compared to RE's. Almost makes me reluctant to build out full songs with VSTs only at the moment, but I'm hoping they'll implement better multi-core-usage in R10. Still, I really love having all these new sounds at my disposal.
That choke hold is the reason I will not use VST is. Also the fact that they crash. I've been using reason since version 1.0 and it's literally never ever crashed on me and I have thrown many many many devices and wiring at it. Vsts are absolutely not friendly on your processor. You're going to have to pick your two favorite patches and hopefully that's good enough for your song.

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10 May 2017

qn5 wrote:I've been in the process of porting over midi files and serum presets from ableton to recreate a couple projects in Reason and so far so good.
Although I will say, even on a i7 5960x, a couple of these VST patches (and VK-2) send my machine into a chokehold. Previewing patches (in serum) is also slowpoke city compared to RE's. Almost makes me reluctant to build out full songs with VSTs only at the moment, but I'm hoping they'll implement better multi-core-usage in R10. Still, I really love having all these new sounds at my disposal.
In case you missed it. Please read viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7500407

The beta is not a demo version, we don't want to give the people false impressions of performance based on test versions intentionally made to run slower than normal.

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SA Studio
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10 May 2017

etyrnal wrote:
qn5 wrote:I've been in the process of porting over midi files and serum presets from ableton to recreate a couple projects in Reason and so far so good.
Although I will say, even on a i7 5960x, a couple of these VST patches (and VK-2) send my machine into a chokehold. Previewing patches (in serum) is also slowpoke city compared to RE's. Almost makes me reluctant to build out full songs with VSTs only at the moment, but I'm hoping they'll implement better multi-core-usage in R10. Still, I really love having all these new sounds at my disposal.
That choke hold is the reason I will not use VST is. Also the fact that they crash. I've been using reason since version 1.0 and it's literally never ever crashed on me and I have thrown many many many devices and wiring at it. Vsts are absolutely not friendly on your processor. You're going to have to pick your two favorite patches and hopefully that's good enough for your song.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk
You may want to reconsider all of this. That person is using the Beta version which is hampered by about 50% due to the "Logged In" mode.

The parts in bold are simply not true. Things will be great in about 3 to 6 months from now when we all can look back and see how many VST's from even halfway reputable devs are not crashing. The music industry wouldn't be the modern music industry without that format. It's wonderful we get to finally use them in Reason, and a while new era is about to happen.

One great thing of the new era, will be getting passed many misconceptions about VST's.

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etyrnal
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10 May 2017

SA Studio wrote:One great thing of the new era, will be getting passed many misconceptions about VST's.

These aren't conceptions. This is EXPERIENCE. Been writing, and producing electronic music since before VSTs existed, and have been using them. Propellerhead stuff is INCREDIBLY stable, and incredibly CPU efficient. That is a FACT from first hand experience. Not a concept. And logging or not, the VSTs aren't internally logged. So the argument is invalid.

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tobypearce
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10 May 2017

I agree, OP.

I too worked hard to get the great sounds out of reason. One time I emulated a patch on youtube - it was done in Spire and I replicated, quite successfully I thought, the same sound in Antidote. Then in Expanse.

Now I can do it in Spire, and stay in the Reason workflow I love so much.
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SA Studio
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10 May 2017

etyrnal wrote:
SA Studio wrote:One great thing of the new era, will be getting passed many misconceptions about VST's.

These aren't conceptions. This is EXPERIENCE. Been writing, and producing electronic music since before VSTs existed, and have been using them. Propellerhead stuff is INCREDIBLY stable, and incredibly CPU efficient. That is a FACT from first hand experience. Not a concept. And logging or not, the VSTs aren't internally logged. So the argument is invalid.
Not sure we're on the same page. No argument from me whatsoever about Propellerhead products being stable, I was just pointing out your quotes of "the fact that they crash' and "Vsts are absolutely not friendly on your processor" are both false and not factual statements or claims.

Those are the types of misconceptions that in only a few months time will go away.

I certainly didn't mean to imply Props products weren't of the highest quality. :thumbs_up: :reason:

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etyrnal
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10 May 2017

SA Studio wrote:"the fact that they crash' and "Vsts are absolutely not friendly on your processor" are both false and not factual statements or claims.

Those are the types of misconceptions that in only a few months time will go away.

I certainly didn't mean to imply Props products weren't of the highest quality. :thumbs_up: :reason:
It is not a (mis)CONEPT(ion), if it's been/being EXPERIENCED. If i experience VSTs CRASHING, it is not a CONCEPT (concept-ion, or mis-CONCEPT-ion) -- it is a FACT. If i personally experience individual VSTis instances using MORE CPU percentage than the DAW itself, and using more CPU percentage that similar Re's, plus the DAW, it is a FACT -- a DIRECT EXPERIENCE -- not a "misconception".

The very fact that features like track-freezing exist, is EVIDENCE of the collective's experience with VST plugins that use so much CPU power that you are left without enough CPU power to continue writing, and producing due to plugin abuse of CPU power. Not a developers respect ideas of maximum efficiency in their code base.

Not a "misconception". You might have a misconception about what "misconception" actually is.

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QVprod
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10 May 2017

etyrnal wrote:
SA Studio wrote:"the fact that they crash' and "Vsts are absolutely not friendly on your processor" are both false and not factual statements or claims.

Those are the types of misconceptions that in only a few months time will go away.

I certainly didn't mean to imply Props products weren't of the highest quality. :thumbs_up: :reason:
It is not a (mis)CONEPT(ion), if it's been/being EXPERIENCED. If i experience VSTs CRASHING, it is not a CONCEPT (concept-ion, or mis-CONCEPT-ion) -- it is a FACT. If i personally experience individual VSTis instances using MORE CPU percentage than the DAW itself, and using more CPU percentage that similar Re's, plus the DAW, it is a FACT -- a DIRECT EXPERIENCE -- not a "misconception".

The very fact that features like track-freezing exist, is EVIDENCE of the collective's experience with VST plugins that use so much CPU power that you are left without enough CPU power to continue writing, and producing due to plugin abuse of CPU power. Not a developers respect ideas of maximum efficiency in their code base.

Not a "misconception". You might have a misconception about what "misconception" actually is.
There's two sides to this. There are some vst that crash often and some that are CPU intensive. There are also those that are stable and light on CPU. It's case by case. Truly if every vst had horrible performance, it wouldn't be so widely used.

I've experienced both. Yet have been fully able to make complete songs without freezing or bouncing until the mix phase, same as I would in Reason.

ShawnG
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10 May 2017

etyrnal wrote:
SA Studio wrote:"the fact that they crash' and "Vsts are absolutely not friendly on your processor" are both false and not factual statements or claims.

Those are the types of misconceptions that in only a few months time will go away.

I certainly didn't mean to imply Props products weren't of the highest quality. :thumbs_up: :reason:
It is not a (mis)CONEPT(ion), if it's been/being EXPERIENCED. If i experience VSTs CRASHING, it is not a CONCEPT (concept-ion, or mis-CONCEPT-ion) -- it is a FACT. If i personally experience individual VSTis instances using MORE CPU percentage than the DAW itself, and using more CPU percentage that similar Re's, plus the DAW, it is a FACT -- a DIRECT EXPERIENCE -- not a "misconception".

The very fact that features like track-freezing exist, is EVIDENCE of the collective's experience with VST plugins that use so much CPU power that you are left without enough CPU power to continue writing, and producing due to plugin abuse of CPU power. Not a developers respect ideas of maximum efficiency in their code base.

Not a "misconception". You might have a misconception about what "misconception" actually is.
Ok I just did a quick and dirty test with the only thing that I can directly compare with a VST, and that is Predator by Rob Papen, since I happen to own both versions.

same two note held chord on the same patch in 3 different DAWS, and I took the CPU usage directly from windows' process explorer in all three cases

Tracktion idle at 2.5% CPU 5.58% CPU when holding chord (lite host with little overhead)
Cubase idle at 6.62% CPU 8.9% CPU when holding chord
Reason idle at 6.65% CPU 15.79% CPU when holding chord

this is what I expected. RE's have always used more resources than their direct VST counterparts. Native reason devices are extremely efficient, but much of that has to do with not running as robust processing as modern VST instruments, I also own Diva by u-he and, yes it can use an entire core all by itself, but thats because it was programmed purposely to be a hardcore emulation of analog hardware. I also have many VST's that use resources sparingly, and will never require track freeze to render as many instances as you need.

I'm not hammering Reason here, it is a wonderful and well coded application that I have had few issues with (I have had it crash once or twice tho) I am looking forward to using it with VST's (not on beta). but what was once true in 2002 isn't really the case anymore. most VST's are efficient to the level of their programming, and rock solid stable. yes there are exceptions, and developers that release buggy VST's, but the stability and usage argument is oversold in this day and age. ALL of my DAWs are stable. (I own 7)

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unisyn
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11 May 2017

Yep, for the same reason - if I don't require any extensive CV patching,
would definitely use VST over REs, assuming that the VST wrapper isn't going to cause much overhead.
Would save me some CPU cycles.

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itsone3d
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11 May 2017

qn5 wrote:I've been in the process of porting over midi files and serum presets from ableton to recreate a couple projects in Reason and so far so good.
Although I will say, even on a i7 5960x, a couple of these VST patches (and VK-2) send my machine into a chokehold. Previewing patches (in serum) is also slowpoke city compared to RE's. Almost makes me reluctant to build out full songs with VSTs only at the moment, but I'm hoping they'll implement better multi-core-usage in R10. Still, I really love having all these new sounds at my disposal.
Totally unrelated to the thread, but Tone is this actually you??

If so, I can't believe you're actually a Reason head! Huge fan right here.

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SA Studio
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11 May 2017

ShawnG wrote:
etyrnal wrote:
SA Studio wrote:"the fact that they crash' and "Vsts are absolutely not friendly on your processor" are both false and not factual statements or claims.

Those are the types of misconceptions that in only a few months time will go away.

I certainly didn't mean to imply Props products weren't of the highest quality. :thumbs_up: :reason:
It is not a (mis)CONEPT(ion), if it's been/being EXPERIENCED. If i experience VSTs CRASHING, it is not a CONCEPT (concept-ion, or mis-CONCEPT-ion) -- it is a FACT. If i personally experience individual VSTis instances using MORE CPU percentage than the DAW itself, and using more CPU percentage that similar Re's, plus the DAW, it is a FACT -- a DIRECT EXPERIENCE -- not a "misconception".

The very fact that features like track-freezing exist, is EVIDENCE of the collective's experience with VST plugins that use so much CPU power that you are left without enough CPU power to continue writing, and producing due to plugin abuse of CPU power. Not a developers respect ideas of maximum efficiency in their code base.

Not a "misconception". You might have a misconception about what "misconception" actually is.
Ok I just did a quick and dirty test with the only thing that I can directly compare with a VST, and that is Predator by Rob Papen, since I happen to own both versions.

same two note held chord on the same patch in 3 different DAWS, and I took the CPU usage directly from windows' process explorer in all three cases

Tracktion idle at 2.5% CPU 5.58% CPU when holding chord (lite host with little overhead)
Cubase idle at 6.62% CPU 8.9% CPU when holding chord
Reason idle at 6.65% CPU 15.79% CPU when holding chord

this is what I expected. RE's have always used more resources than their direct VST counterparts. Native reason devices are extremely efficient, but much of that has to do with not running as robust processing as modern VST instruments, I also own Diva by u-he and, yes it can use an entire core all by itself, but thats because it was programmed purposely to be a hardcore emulation of analog hardware. I also have many VST's that use resources sparingly, and will never require track freeze to render as many instances as you need.

I'm not hammering Reason here, it is a wonderful and well coded application that I have had few issues with (I have had it crash once or twice tho) I am looking forward to using it with VST's (not on beta). but what was once true in 2002 isn't really the case anymore. most VST's are efficient to the level of their programming, and rock solid stable. yes there are exceptions, and developers that release buggy VST's, but the stability and usage argument is oversold in this day and age. ALL of my DAWs are stable. (I own 7)
Thank you, Shawn!

It's no knock against RE's, It's just been widely known that RE's definitely use more resources than their VST counterpart. This is in no way new news. This was found in the first year and then confirmed again later when new devices arrived and still no change.

It's not the biggest difference in the world, maybe 10 to 15%, but RE's are not lighter on CPU than VST.

Also, VST's do not stop working all of a sudden if you dont update them. They do not phone-home nor are they on any time release. VST's will not all of a sudden stop working on your computer because you didn't update them.

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qn5
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11 May 2017

itsone3d wrote:
qn5 wrote:I really love having all these new sounds at my disposal.
Totally unrelated to the thread, but Tone is this actually you??

If so, I can't believe you're actually a Reason head! Huge fan right here.
Dope! Thanks for the love. Yeah, I made my entire new Polymer album in Reason top to bottom.
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etyrnal
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11 May 2017

SA Studio wrote:
ShawnG wrote:
etyrnal wrote:
SA Studio wrote:"the fact that they crash' and "Vsts are absolutely not friendly on your processor" are both false and not factual statements or claims.

Those are the types of misconceptions that in only a few months time will go away.

I certainly didn't mean to imply Props products weren't of the highest quality. [emoji106]: :reason:
It is not a (mis)CONEPT(ion), if it's been/being EXPERIENCED. If i experience VSTs CRASHING, it is not a CONCEPT (concept-ion, or mis-CONCEPT-ion) -- it is a FACT. If i personally experience individual VSTis instances using MORE CPU percentage than the DAW itself, and using more CPU percentage that similar Re's, plus the DAW, it is a FACT -- a DIRECT EXPERIENCE -- not a "misconception".

The very fact that features like track-freezing exist, is EVIDENCE of the collective's experience with VST plugins that use so much CPU power that you are left without enough CPU power to continue writing, and producing due to plugin abuse of CPU power. Not a developers respect ideas of maximum efficiency in their code base.

Not a "misconception". You might have a misconception about what "misconception" actually is.
Ok I just did a quick and dirty test with the only thing that I can directly compare with a VST, and that is Predator by Rob Papen, since I happen to own both versions.

same two note held chord on the same patch in 3 different DAWS, and I took the CPU usage directly from windows' process explorer in all three cases

Tracktion idle at 2.5% CPU 5.58% CPU when holding chord (lite host with little overhead)
Cubase idle at 6.62% CPU 8.9% CPU when holding chord
Reason idle at 6.65% CPU 15.79% CPU when holding chord

this is what I expected. RE's have always used more resources than their direct VST counterparts. Native reason devices are extremely efficient, but much of that has to do with not running as robust processing as modern VST instruments, I also own Diva by u-he and, yes it can use an entire core all by itself, but thats because it was programmed purposely to be a hardcore emulation of analog hardware. I also have many VST's that use resources sparingly, and will never require track freeze to render as many instances as you need.

I'm not hammering Reason here, it is a wonderful and well coded application that I have had few issues with (I have had it crash once or twice tho) I am looking forward to using it with VST's (not on beta). but what was once true in 2002 isn't really the case anymore. most VST's are efficient to the level of their programming, and rock solid stable. yes there are exceptions, and developers that release buggy VST's, but the stability and usage argument is oversold in this day and age. ALL of my DAWs are stable. (I own 7)
Thank you, Shawn!

It's no knock against RE's, It's just been widely known that RE's definitely use more resources than their VST counterpart. This is in no way new news. This was found in the first year and then confirmed again later when new devices arrived and still no change.

It's not the biggest difference in the world, maybe 10 to 15%, but RE's are not lighter on CPU than VST.

Also, VST's do not stop working all of a sudden if you dont update them. They do not phone-home nor are they on any time release. VST's will not all of a sudden stop working on your computer because you didn't update them.
Because REs that come from VST code are ported, instead of native. Isn't it just a VSTi in a wrapper? Why would that ever be efficient?

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

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joeyluck
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14 May 2017

SA Studio wrote:Also, VST's do not stop working all of a sudden if you dont update them. They do not phone-home nor are they on any time release. VST's will not all of a sudden stop working on your computer because you didn't update them.
:?

I've got a few VSTs...fewer today than I thought I would because others have lost support. I'm not sure if you are trying to spread misinformation or if you were just joking around. But to be sure, just chiming in to set the facts straight :puf_smile:

It is on the developer to continuously update plugins like VSTs to work as everything else around them progresses. I've already experienced this first hand and I've barely gotten started. Picked up several plugins over the past few years to play with Reason via EMI here and there. Didn't use them too much, but figured I'd give them a go again with Reason 9.5 on the way. Now finding out some are simply no longer supported and I can't even use them... Just like that :puf_unhappy:

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14 May 2017

etyrnal wrote: Because REs that come from VST code are ported, instead of native. Isn't it just a VSTi in a wrapper? Why would that ever be efficient?
Feel like this should be cleared up. There is no VST wrapper for Rack extensions. VSTs ported to Rack Extensions are built the same as any other Rack Extension.

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SA Studio
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15 May 2017

joeyluck wrote:
SA Studio wrote:Also, VST's do not stop working all of a sudden if you dont update them. They do not phone-home nor are they on any time release. VST's will not all of a sudden stop working on your computer because you didn't update them.
:?

I've got a few VSTs...fewer today than I thought I would because others have lost support. I'm not sure if you are trying to spread misinformation or if you were just joking around. But to be sure, just chiming in to set the facts straight :puf_smile:

It is on the developer to continuously update plugins like VSTs to work as everything else around them progresses. I've already experienced this first hand and I've barely gotten started. Picked up several plugins over the past few years to play with Reason via EMI here and there. Didn't use them too much, but figured I'd give them a go again with Reason 9.5 on the way. Now finding out some are simply no longer supported and I can't even use them... Just like that :puf_unhappy:
Spreading misinformation? Definitely not trying to do that. Let's see if we can figure this out, because I don't want to remotely be accused of that

Which plug-ins of yours stopped working? I have VST products from at least 10 developers and have never had something all of a sudden stop working because it was unsupported. Was the developer a known company?

What were those products that became unsupported? Perhaps the scenario is something I'm not considering I've simply never had an issue in 10 years with a VST not working - did you update to a new OS and you old plugs didn't work anymore?

VST's do not need constant updates - or even any updates, outside of an OS update, and Windows has always been smooth for me. I have some VSTs that are 10 years old that have never ever been updated once that used to be used in Vista that still are the same plug in Win 7. When you say something all of a sudden "just became unsupported", I can't think of what that would mean. But yeah, none of my plugs have ever had or needed any updates. Are they incompatible with a new OS that you have? Can't think of any reason beside that.

I'd be happy to try to help you figure out why something you paid money for isn't working - I know I wouldn't be happy with that

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joeyluck
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15 May 2017

SA Studio wrote:
joeyluck wrote:
SA Studio wrote:Also, VST's do not stop working all of a sudden if you dont update them. They do not phone-home nor are they on any time release. VST's will not all of a sudden stop working on your computer because you didn't update them.
:?

I've got a few VSTs...fewer today than I thought I would because others have lost support. I'm not sure if you are trying to spread misinformation or if you were just joking around. But to be sure, just chiming in to set the facts straight :puf_smile:

It is on the developer to continuously update plugins like VSTs to work as everything else around them progresses. I've already experienced this first hand and I've barely gotten started. Picked up several plugins over the past few years to play with Reason via EMI here and there. Didn't use them too much, but figured I'd give them a go again with Reason 9.5 on the way. Now finding out some are simply no longer supported and I can't even use them... Just like that :puf_unhappy:
Spreading misinformation? Definitely not trying to do that. Let's see if we can figure this out, because I don't want to remotely be accused of that

Perhaps the scenario is something I'm not considering I've simply never had an issue in 10 years with a VST not working - did you update to a new OS and you old plugs didn't work anymore?
Perhaps so... Maybe you need to be reminded of your quote?
SA Studio wrote:Also, VST's do not stop working all of a sudden if you dont update them. They do not phone-home nor are they on any time release. VST's will not all of a sudden stop working on your computer because you didn't update them.
We'll just let everyone contact you I suppose whenever they encounter any issues with VST support. Regardless of your experiences, you have to acknowledge that you have only gotten lucky if you have all your plugins and never had to update your plugins as you have updated your hardware and OS over the years. Out of the countless number of VSTs out there (free/commercial, indie/big name developer), you are making a statement that they will all continue to work without being updated?

And this comes from the same guy who wants to question the future compatibility of REs inside Reason? Because, oh anything could happen. Yet, with VSTs that can break with OS updates, that are known to lose support and no longer be available, you act like they are magically protected because the handfuls you have that work for you? There is much more left to chance in the VST world in regards to compatibility than there would be with REs working inside Reason. You want me to post a picture of what REs I own that continue to work inside Reason from day 1? I don't have to, as I can just link you to a shop and say "these all work." But apparently within that discussion, linking you to things that work and have always worked isn't good enough because of your imagination.

That makes you a bit of a hypocrite on this plugin support issue. And if you want to inform everyone that all VSTs will continue to work without being updated, have at it. Just makes you sound in the dark on a well-known and documented issue. But I rather think you being a professional with so many years experience in the industry don't need someone on a site about a DAW that is only now just about to get VST support to read about stories of broken and no-longer-supported VSTs. Very confusing for someone claiming to be so experienced to be so unaware of these issues and make the claims that you do.

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stratatonic
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15 May 2017

joeyluck wrote:
SA Studio wrote:
joeyluck wrote:
SA Studio wrote:Also, VST's do not stop working all of a sudden if you dont update them. They do not phone-home nor are they on any time release. VST's will not all of a sudden stop working on your computer because you didn't update them.
:?

I've got a few VSTs...fewer today than I thought I would because others have lost support. I'm not sure if you are trying to spread misinformation or if you were just joking around. But to be sure, just chiming in to set the facts straight :puf_smile:

It is on the developer to continuously update plugins like VSTs to work as everything else around them progresses. I've already experienced this first hand and I've barely gotten started. Picked up several plugins over the past few years to play with Reason via EMI here and there. Didn't use them too much, but figured I'd give them a go again with Reason 9.5 on the way. Now finding out some are simply no longer supported and I can't even use them... Just like that :puf_unhappy:
Spreading misinformation? Definitely not trying to do that. Let's see if we can figure this out, because I don't want to remotely be accused of that

Perhaps the scenario is something I'm not considering I've simply never had an issue in 10 years with a VST not working - did you update to a new OS and you old plugs didn't work anymore?
Perhaps so... Maybe you need to be reminded of your quote?
SA Studio wrote:Also, VST's do not stop working all of a sudden if you dont update them. They do not phone-home nor are they on any time release. VST's will not all of a sudden stop working on your computer because you didn't update them.
We'll just let everyone contact you I suppose whenever they encounter any issues with VST support. Regardless of your experiences, you have to acknowledge that you have only gotten lucky if you have all your plugins and never had to update your plugins as you have updated your hardware and OS over the years. Out of the countless number of VSTs out there (free/commercial, indie/big name developer), you are making a statement that they will all continue to work without being updated?

And this comes from the same guy who wants to question the future compatibility of REs inside Reason? Because, oh anything could happen. Yet, with VSTs that can break with OS updates, that are known to lose support and no longer be available, you act like they are magically protected because the handfuls you have that work for you? There is much more left to chance in the VST world in regards to compatibility than there would be with REs working inside Reason. You want me to post a picture of what REs I own that continue to work inside Reason from day 1? I don't have to, as I can just link you to a shop and say "these all work." But apparently within that discussion, linking you to things that work and have always worked isn't good enough because of your imagination.

That makes you a bit of a hypocrite on this plugin support issue. And if you want to inform everyone that all VSTs will continue to work without being updated, have at it. Just makes you sound in the dark on a well-known and documented issue. But I rather think you being a professional with so many years experience in the industry don't need someone on a site about a DAW that is only now just about to get VST support to read about stories of broken and no-longer-supported VSTs. Very confusing for someone claiming to be so experienced to be so unaware of these issues and make the claims that you do.
Not sure I understand the confusion here.
A plugin will continue to work if it is not updated, so the original statement is correct.

Depends on what host it is in. If you bought 32 bit AU years back and then bought Logic Pro X, your plugins will not work in Logic X. If you bought 32 bit VST plugins in the past, they won't work in Reason 9.5

The plugin will still work - just maybe not in your favourite DAW anymore.

If your DAW of choice is Reaper, any 32 bit plugin you bought in the past will work in 64 bit Reaper. Their bridge is seamless.

And if your OS of choice is Windows, you stand a better chance of compatibility throughout the years. I have software from way back that continues to work in latest Windows. You can't say the same about mac.

What plugins are you having trouble with Joey? EMI has only been out a few years so it seems odd that you're having issues. So it could be a recent OSX update. I'm still on OSX 10.9.5 for audio work because I don't want to take a chance of messing anything up - although Apple tempts me to upgrade, so that I can have the latest Logic X update, lol. Can you go back to a previous install?

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