Vengeance Sound's VPS Avenger is simply *THE BEST* VST synth on the market for EDM, IMHO

Discuss VST stuff here!
Syntherizer
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Post 24 Jan 2018

It really is Avenger is expanding none stop and updating all the time.. The the way you can FM OSC's now is great!!! I literally bought it because I wanted this Acoustic Guitar Expansion that actually hasnt been released yet. :x
still waiting Mr EastBound!!

mojo
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Post 24 Jan 2018

I finally bought it 2 weeks ago and I have zero regrets. awesome synth, powerful and easy to use. a long story love has begun.

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EnochLight
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Post 24 Jan 2018

Syntherizer wrote:
24 Jan 2018
It really is Avenger is expanding none stop and updating all the time.. The the way you can FM OSC's now is great!!! I literally bought it because I wanted this Acoustic Guitar Expansion that actually hasnt been released yet. :x
[/media] still waiting Mr EastBound!!
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miscend
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Post 14 Feb 2018

There’s another synth that came out at the same time as this. It’s called Parawave Rapid Synth. It got overlooked but I think it sounds better.

groggy1
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Post 15 Feb 2018

I've been using avenger for a few months now, and I like it.

However, a few gripes: I *hate* how it scales the GUI: It's blurry! I have a 1280x1024 screen, and to make the Gui fit on one screen I need to scale it to 70%. But when I do so, the text is blurry, and barely readable. Ug!

Other gripe: I don't like how the mod-matrix works, where you build a list of modulations. I think it's because I'm so used to the way it works in other synths where there's a fixed # of modulations, and you can view them all at once. (whereas with Avenger, you have to scroll through them to understand what's going on)


I think the best part about the synth is the onboard effects: Vengeance has always had steller effects in my opinion, and for me that makes for great sound-design.

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EnochLight
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Post 15 Feb 2018

miscend wrote:
14 Feb 2018
There’s another synth that came out at the same time as this. It’s called Parawave Rapid Synth. It got overlooked but I think it sounds better.
I only tried the demo of Parawave, but I had a hard time really hearing that. That said, I prefer Avenger's GUI/UX and the devs are super involved. The thread over at KVR is like a million pages long and still near the top of the forum front page, and the devs actively chime in every few pages and engage with their customers with regular updates. That's pretty cool.

There's a Rapid Synth thread about 3 pages in. Is it new? I really dislike its GUI/UX compared to Avenger, but I realize this is personal preference.
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mojo
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Post 16 Feb 2018

groggy1 wrote:
15 Feb 2018

However, a few gripes: I *hate* how it scales the GUI: It's blurry! I have a 1280x1024 screen, and to make the Gui fit on one screen I need to scale it to 70%. But when I do so, the text is blurry, and barely readable. Ug!
I have the same problem but I think it comes from reason because when I open avenger in renoise it displays really better and is fully readable.

groggy1
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Post 16 Feb 2018

mojo wrote:
16 Feb 2018
groggy1 wrote:
15 Feb 2018

However, a few gripes: I *hate* how it scales the GUI: It's blurry! I have a 1280x1024 screen, and to make the Gui fit on one screen I need to scale it to 70%. But when I do so, the text is blurry, and barely readable. Ug!
I have the same problem but I think it comes from reason because when I open avenger in renoise it displays really better and is fully readable.
Ah, I didn't know that, thanks

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abeonis
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Post 28 Apr 2018

I started to use Avenger one week ago. It complements my synths set: ABL3, Predator RE, Spire. Avenger is by far my favorite synth today. I found it complicated to use at a first glance but I quickly captured the essence of the synth and started to have fun with it. I also purchased the PSY Expansion pack: It is good, very very expensive compared to Spire libraries and no MIDI to demonstrate a possible use of the presets. Now, if I understand well, we can only use its main outputs if used in Reason. No way to send the different drum instruments to separate tracks in Reason. Am I right? How other DAWs implement VST instruments interface? Which is the best regarding VST? I have seen some people here using Studio One. Why?
Thanks.

Edit:

I quote a synthesis of an article made by Peak Eleven:
“Propellerhead sure took their time to add VST support to Reason, but to be fair this is the best implementation of VST plug-ins in any DAW (Reason, Cubase, Logic Pro X, Reaper and Studio One), period. For starters, undo actually works! This might not sound like a big thing, but if you have used other DAWs you know it is. And also, you can use devices and effects in Reason to control automation of the VST plugins. That is huge! And finally, I love that I am able to add VST instruments into the incredible combinator.”

I am not sure this statement is right. I know that Cubase allows Avenger drums module to have different outputs. However, the features mentioned regarding Reason VST implementation are correct and useful..
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abeonis
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Post 28 May 2018

abeonis wrote:
28 Apr 2018
I started to use Avenger one week ago. It complements my synths set: ABL3, Predator RE, Spire. Avenger is by far my favorite synth today. I found it complicated to use at a first glance but I quickly captured the essence of the synth and started to have fun with it. I also purchased the PSY Expansion pack: It is good, very very expensive compared to Spire libraries and no MIDI to demonstrate a possible use of the presets. Now, if I understand well, we can only use its main outputs if used in Reason. No way to send the different drum instruments to separate tracks in Reason. Am I right? How other DAWs implement VST instruments interface? Which is the best regarding VST? I have seen some people here using Studio One. Why?
Thanks.

Edit:

I quote a synthesis of an article made by Peak Eleven:
“Propellerhead sure took their time to add VST support to Reason, but to be fair this is the best implementation of VST plug-ins in any DAW (Reason, Cubase, Logic Pro X, Reaper and Studio One), period. For starters, undo actually works! This might not sound like a big thing, but if you have used other DAWs you know it is. And also, you can use devices and effects in Reason to control automation of the VST plugins. That is huge! And finally, I love that I am able to add VST instruments into the incredible combinator.”

I am not sure this statement is right. I know that Cubase allows Avenger drums module to have different outputs. However, the features mentioned regarding Reason VST implementation are correct and useful..
Image

Actually, I was completely wrong. Reason supports multi-outputs. So it seems VST implementation in Reason is really, really good.
Windows 10 64-bit | Reason 9.5 | Live 10 Suite + Push2 | Intel i7 8700K | 16 GB RAM | Scarlett 6x6 | Arturia MiniLab MK II | 2x Novation LaunchControl XL

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EnochLight
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Post 28 May 2018

abeonis wrote:
28 May 2018
abeonis wrote:
28 Apr 2018
I started to use Avenger one week ago. It complements my synths set: ABL3, Predator RE, Spire. Avenger is by far my favorite synth today. I found it complicated to use at a first glance but I quickly captured the essence of the synth and started to have fun with it. I also purchased the PSY Expansion pack: It is good, very very expensive compared to Spire libraries and no MIDI to demonstrate a possible use of the presets. Now, if I understand well, we can only use its main outputs if used in Reason. No way to send the different drum instruments to separate tracks in Reason. Am I right? How other DAWs implement VST instruments interface? Which is the best regarding VST? I have seen some people here using Studio One. Why?
Thanks.

Edit:

I quote a synthesis of an article made by Peak Eleven:
“Propellerhead sure took their time to add VST support to Reason, but to be fair this is the best implementation of VST plug-ins in any DAW (Reason, Cubase, Logic Pro X, Reaper and Studio One), period. For starters, undo actually works! This might not sound like a big thing, but if you have used other DAWs you know it is. And also, you can use devices and effects in Reason to control automation of the VST plugins. That is huge! And finally, I love that I am able to add VST instruments into the incredible combinator.”

I am not sure this statement is right. I know that Cubase allows Avenger drums module to have different outputs. However, the features mentioned regarding Reason VST implementation are correct and useful..
VPS Avenger.jpg
Actually, I was completely wrong. Reason supports multi-outputs. So it seems VST implementation in Reason is really, really good.
Yes, aside from the massive performance issues with VST in Reason compared to most other DAW, it is by far my favorite implementation of VST in any DAW. But Reason is my main DAW, so I'm biased. I also own Studio One 3.5.x (which I bought at version 2 back when Reason didn't support VST), and I still prefer Reason.

I'll add that, as far as VPS Avenger is concerned, I've mulled over selling my license for a while... but I just can't. It's such a fully featured synth that can really do practically everything I need, and some of its "one-finger-songs" are truly awesome to play with. I picked up the Granular XP1 expansion, but haven't bought any others. Their soundsets due tend to be ridiculously expensive, IMHO, especially compared to a typical Spire soundset. The fact that they don't include MIDI or songfiles is sort of disappointing as well.

I'll still hold on to VPS Avenger for now, though I tend to look at my plugins as fancy soundsets with customized GUI/UX these days, since the amount of synths I own is just getting out of hand and I don't appear to be slowing down any time soon (I just picked up Thorn by Dmitri Sches)! I figure, back before Reason had RE's or supported VST, the only way you could expand your soundsets were to get Refills, and I have about 340+ of those. Now I'm buying VST and some RE, and rarely add Refills (though I bought the sublime Granular Manoeuvres ReFill for Grain a few months ago).

I'd much rather be a digital hoarder than IRL! Lol :lol:
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abeonis
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Post 28 May 2018

Yes, the lack of song/wave and MIDI files in VPS Avenger expansion packs adds an extra effort to understand the intent of a preset. However, as a workaround, it seems that each expansion pack has an associated marketing Youtube video.

Below the marketing video for the PSY Expansion:



You can extract the MP3 from the Youtube video and load it in a Reason track. You also have the information at which time was used a specific preset. As you are in Reason, you can identify the tempo, create loops, load the patches and finally have some fun.

Though Spire libraries are a model to be used by developers including for refills, IMHO. It is easy to go to their web site and see what they deliver and for how much.
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jimmyklane
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Post 28 May 2018

EnochLight wrote:
07 May 2017
Anyone new to VST that are contemplating picking up a new synth should absolutely consider Vengeance Sound's VPS Avenger. A recent review by ask.audio sums things up nicely:
It’s almost like someone decided to create a Combinator, external from Reason, with a totally different audio engine, sound design team, and graphics. However, that descriptions still seriously limits what Avenger is.
https://ask.audio/articles/review-vps-v ... nger-synth

It goes on sale on occasion (I picked it up over the April "Easter Sale" for 30% off, so you might want to see if you can grab it on sale at some point - but even at full price it's worth it, IMHO). Simply nothing else out there like it, and it's a joy to use in Reason! ;)

http://www.musicradar.com/reviews/tech/ ... ger-645346
That’s a bold quote.
Ever since I learned that Vengeance had ripped samples off of albums or other libraries I’ve tuned out everything they have released.
So, I’ll stick with my Virus....with VSTs in Reason, I don’t even have to patch it up if I don’t want to, just run it digitally via USB. Works like a charm and all the parameters are saved.
DAW: Reason 10,

SAMPLERS: Akai MPC 2000, E-mu SP1200, E-Mu e5000Ultra, Ensoniq EPS 16+, Akai S950, Maschine

SYNTHS: Mostly classic Polysynths and more modern Monosynths. All are mostly food for my samplers!

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EnochLight
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Post 29 May 2018

jimmyklane wrote:
28 May 2018
That’s a bold quote.
Yet, it's not untrue.
jimmyklane wrote:
28 May 2018
Ever since I learned that Vengeance had ripped samples off of albums or other libraries I’ve tuned out everything they have released.
Source?
jimmyklane wrote:
28 May 2018
So, I’ll stick with my Virus....with VSTs in Reason, I don’t even have to patch it up if I don’t want to, just run it digitally via USB. Works like a charm and all the parameters are saved.
I still have a couple of hardware synths (my Juno 106 and an old Ensoniq), but I can't be arsed to hook them up. It's just an order of magnitude easier to stay ITB, IMHO. I'm also a huge fan of total recall when pulling up old songs.
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jimmyklane
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Post 29 May 2018

EnochLight wrote:
29 May 2018
jimmyklane wrote:
28 May 2018
That’s a bold quote.
Yet, it's not untrue.
jimmyklane wrote:
28 May 2018
Ever since I learned that Vengeance had ripped samples off of albums or other libraries I’ve tuned out everything they have released.
Source?
jimmyklane wrote:
28 May 2018
So, I’ll stick with my Virus....with VSTs in Reason, I don’t even have to patch it up if I don’t want to, just run it digitally via USB. Works like a charm and all the parameters are saved.
I still have a couple of hardware synths (my Juno 106 and an old Ensoniq), but I can't be arsed to hook them up. It's just an order of magnitude easier to stay ITB, IMHO. I'm also a huge fan of total recall when pulling up old songs.
The source of that is, admittedly, Gearslutz, however the OP there had some damning evidence at the time. I will make an attempt to locate and link here. I know it’s not kosher to spread tales like that without presenting evidence ASAP....so I’ll find some or retract my statement.


I’m so used to the hardware workflow that it’s pretty fast for me... they’re all hooked up and only a button press or two away to route them from the console to the interface.

It’s not like I don’t use Reason devices, but the truth is that more often than not I actually sample them into either the Ensoniq if it’s tonal or the MPC/SP1200 if they’re drums or very short phrases. Sometimes it takes me 30 minutes to put together a drum kit....or 15 to create a simple EP/Synth but in the end I know that it will have a sound that nobody else is getting....even if they’re stock samples my samplers tend to color them in a pretty noticeable fashion.

If you’re happy and comfortable ITB, I’m not going to tell you that you’re getting inferior sound, because it’s no longer 2001....the plugins of today are remarkably capable, and I’ve done personal A/B/X shootouts with my own equipment and monitors and room and “lost” multiple challenges. uHe Repro 1/5 is a great example, I own a Pro One....it’s a killer synth. Repro pretty much nails the sound. I couldn’t hear a difference when I stopped looking at the names of the audio files. So you and I work in fundamentally different ways but that’s cool.


As for total recall....I have a system, but it takes 30 minutes to get everything exactly as it was unless I do what I’ve been doing since switching to Reason 10 as my only DAW....recording all the hardware and effects into audio channels. By the time I get to a final mixdown, the song is set in tempo, sound design, and playback, it’s simply a matter of recording the live MIDI playback of all the synths into Reason live as the track plays back. I’ve got enough inputs to handle almost everything if I’m using individual outs and all the multi-timbral functions of synths and samplers.
DAW: Reason 10,

SAMPLERS: Akai MPC 2000, E-mu SP1200, E-Mu e5000Ultra, Ensoniq EPS 16+, Akai S950, Maschine

SYNTHS: Mostly classic Polysynths and more modern Monosynths. All are mostly food for my samplers!

www.soundcloud.com/jimmyklane

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EnochLight
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Post 29 May 2018

jimmyklane wrote:
29 May 2018
As for total recall....I have a system, but it takes 30 minutes to get everything exactly as it was unless I do what I’ve been doing since switching to Reason 10 as my only DAW....recording all the hardware and effects into audio channels. By the time I get to a final mixdown, the song is set in tempo, sound design, and playback, it’s simply a matter of recording the live MIDI playback of all the synths into Reason live as the track plays back. I’ve got enough inputs to handle almost everything if I’m using individual outs and all the multi-timbral functions of synths and samplers.
I literally got the shakes and queasy just thinking about all of the effort and plain blind luck I needed to get my hardware setup back in the day. At the height of my hardware setup (this would have been early 90's), I dealt with two drum machines, 2 analog synths, 1 sampler, and 1 workstation driving it all - and the sheer amount of MIDI cables, audio cables, discs, and MIDI settings were enough to make me go gray - Lol! :lol:

I was very happy to go completely ITB, and haven't looked back since (though I'll never give up my Juno 106 - I'll take that to the grave with me).
Windows 10 64-bit | Reason 10.4 |  Studio One 4.5 | Asus Sabertooth Z77 | Intel i7 3770k Quad-Core @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | Mushkin Reactor 1TB SSD | RME Babyface Pro| Nektar Panorama P-4 | Akai MPC Live

EastBoundSounds
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Post 01 Jul 2018


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EnochLight
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Post 04 Jul 2018

jimmyklane wrote:
29 May 2018
EnochLight wrote:
29 May 2018
Source?
The source of that is, admittedly, Gearslutz, however the OP there had some damning evidence at the time. I will make an attempt to locate and link here. I know it’s not kosher to spread tales like that without presenting evidence ASAP....so I’ll find some or retract my statement.
Aaaaaaand a month later... You should probably retract that statement. :D :lol:
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jimmyklane
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Post 04 Jul 2018

EnochLight wrote:
04 Jul 2018
jimmyklane wrote:
29 May 2018

The source of that is, admittedly, Gearslutz, however the OP there had some damning evidence at the time. I will make an attempt to locate and link here. I know it’s not kosher to spread tales like that without presenting evidence ASAP....so I’ll find some or retract my statement.
Aaaaaaand a month later... You should probably retract that statement. :D :lol:
Honestly, I’d forgotten all about it.
http://stoneyroads.com/2014/07/madeon-b ... e-company/

Hopefully this removes your doubts as well as causes you to, perhaps, consider retracting the sarcastic reply?
DAW: Reason 10,

SAMPLERS: Akai MPC 2000, E-mu SP1200, E-Mu e5000Ultra, Ensoniq EPS 16+, Akai S950, Maschine

SYNTHS: Mostly classic Polysynths and more modern Monosynths. All are mostly food for my samplers!

www.soundcloud.com/jimmyklane

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EnochLight
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Post 05 Jul 2018

jimmyklane wrote:
04 Jul 2018
Honestly, I’d forgotten all about it.
http://stoneyroads.com/2014/07/madeon-b ... e-company/
Thanks! Looks like the parties involved resolved things amicably. That’s good to hear.
jimmyklane wrote:
04 Jul 2018
Hopefully this removes your doubts as well as causes you to, perhaps, consider retracting the sarcastic reply?
jimmy,

Help me understand how I can edit my text to make you feel more comfortable. I realize this is the Internet and some aren't as thick skinned as others.
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jimmyklane
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Post 05 Jul 2018

EnochLight wrote:
05 Jul 2018
jimmyklane wrote:
04 Jul 2018
Honestly, I’d forgotten all about it.
http://stoneyroads.com/2014/07/madeon-b ... e-company/
Thanks! Looks like the parties involved resolved things amicably. That’s good to hear.
jimmyklane wrote:
04 Jul 2018
Hopefully this removes your doubts as well as causes you to, perhaps, consider retracting the sarcastic reply?
jimmy,

Help me understand how I can edit my text to make you feel more comfortable. I realize this is the Internet and some aren't as thick skinned as others.
I apologize. I was having a very stressful day yesterday. You said nothing that should have bothered or upset me.
I beg your pardon, because all you did was request the proof I offered to find and forgot about.

On that note, did that article give you some sense that there may be a shady side to SOME OF the Vengeance samples? In the article it was only two, but I think if they’ve done it once they’ve perhaps done it again and not been caught.

None of this has anything to do with their generally excellent synthesizer offerings.
DAW: Reason 10,

SAMPLERS: Akai MPC 2000, E-mu SP1200, E-Mu e5000Ultra, Ensoniq EPS 16+, Akai S950, Maschine

SYNTHS: Mostly classic Polysynths and more modern Monosynths. All are mostly food for my samplers!

www.soundcloud.com/jimmyklane

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EnochLight
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Post 05 Jul 2018

jimmyklane wrote:
05 Jul 2018
I apologize. I was having a very stressful day yesterday. You said nothing that should have bothered or upset me.
I beg your pardon, because all you did was request the proof I offered to find and forgot about.
No worries!
jimmyklane wrote:
05 Jul 2018
On that note, did that article give you some sense that there may be a shady side to SOME OF the Vengeance samples? In the article it was only two, but I think if they’ve done it once they’ve perhaps done it again and not been caught.

None of this has anything to do with their generally excellent synthesizer offerings.
Oh certainly. Though just because one sample library was found (and a very small portion at that) doesn't mean they've done it in others. I tend to go with the "innocent until proven guilty" philosophy. But it certainly makes one take pause if looking at purchasing other sound libraries from them (which, admittedly, I don't do because they're too damn expensive for my taste - LOL)!

Taken into account Miguel's history and networking partners, I'm will to wager he's going to cross all of his t's and dot all of his i's going forward, though.
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JessieJames
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Post 06 Feb 2019

People should not said Avenger is not quality sounding, defend and try to convert others to their own synth.

Why? firstly because this is false as it's rely on so many things. What's synthesis model in use, what kind of sounds compare with what, how gain staging and dynamics are set (inside the synth), What kind of music genre you're into relative to the people you speak to, Does the User Interface is appealing to you and it's really subjective the person, Does this synth (signal path, UI, Synthesis model, easy of use) engage yourself to make your own sounds ... and the list goes on and goes on...

Also, a very pristine sounding synth, immersed into the track mixing - and then, mastered by the sound engineer will not then so easily to judge quality wise. Also to compare you really need a proper A/B with exactly the same sounds on both synth. As each one have their own characteristics, even SAW can be slightly different... Comparing two sounds from two synth is not really relevant.

So to me the most underrated when speaking about synth is how one synth can be engaging to create your own sound rather than another one.
I will not give what it is to me the best synth(s) as it is for me - so it's not for another one. But if a synth engage you to make music : KEEP IT and WORK on IT as much as you can - there's no need to get 30 VST Synth it doesn't make sense. 5-10 Synth is way more sufficient ! But know them perfectly and you will see how it is more efficient ... You will actually make sounds rather to think to the newest synth just release with this and that new... or searching in a to big database what you can use ... :roll:

I create an account here just to say that.
And I know I'm right as it's a FACT. :exclamation: kidding here ...

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Mastrcode
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Post 06 Feb 2019

JessieJames wrote:
06 Feb 2019
"...there's no need to get 30 VST Synth it doesn't make sense. 5-10 Synth is way more sufficient ! But know them perfectly and you will see how it is more efficient ..."
Once Armin Van Buuren said in an interview:

"I was a little bit in doubt about whether I should give you pictures of my new studio, because people will think 'He's got a V‑Synth! He's got... He's got... I need to buy that!' No, you don't need to buy it. I mean, it looks really cool, but usually we have two or three things in analogue at best."

In another Interview:

"You don't need hundrets of synth plugins for making professional music. If you have just one synth plugin which suits your own needs and you know every little feature of this plugin and you know how to use it, you can produce all the sounds for a whole track with just one synth plugin..."

I'm also myself a VST messie. I bought a big bunch of VST's over the last 15 years. Every month 2 VST's minimum. But i always catch myself just using the same 5 plugins every time i produce a new track...

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EnochLight
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Post 06 Feb 2019

JessieJames wrote:
06 Feb 2019
I create an account here just to say that.
Well, I'm guessing (hoping) you're an actual Reason user since you came here to create an account? Maybe stick around and be active in the community. :thumbs_up:
Windows 10 64-bit | Reason 10.4 |  Studio One 4.5 | Asus Sabertooth Z77 | Intel i7 3770k Quad-Core @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | Mushkin Reactor 1TB SSD | RME Babyface Pro| Nektar Panorama P-4 | Akai MPC Live

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