I. Hate. Buying. And. Installing. VST.

Discuss VST stuff here!
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EnochLight
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02 May 2017

Just picked up Output's Exhale and Rev. Holy freaking crap - what a train wreck of downloading and installation woes... Makes me long for the simplicity of Rack Extensions, that's for sure. :(

First, you buy them through the Output store, then you have to install a Steam-like download manager, then you download them - which takes FOREVER... then you have to go through a convoluted folder and file search process through Kontakt Player (which you have to have installed first). I shit you not, I'm getting grey hairs just at the thought of having to reinstall this in the future... :( :roll:

Anyone else here go through the shit needed to get these things running??

If someone on KVR starts ranting about how "inferior" RE's are to VST, I'm going to punch a bag of puppies.
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joeyluck
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02 May 2017

EnochLight wrote:Just picked up Output's Exhale and Rev. Holy freaking crap - what a train wreck of downloading and installation woes... Makes me long for the simplicity of Rack Extensions, that's for sure. :(

First, you buy them through the Output store, then you have to install a Steam-like download manager, then you download them - which takes FOREVER... then you have to go through a convoluted folder and file search process through Kontakt Player (which you have to have installed first). I shit you not, I'm getting grey hairs just at the thought of having to reinstall this in the future... :( :roll:

Anyone else here go through the shit needed to get these things running??
Oh yes. All of this. I was very excited at first and then very discouraged about the idea of purchasing VSTs. I had issues with the Kontakt installation from the start. I was also interested in the Output instruments. I linked in another thread, a how-to installation video for the Output libraries. A video that one would need to have handy to pause and resume to make sure you are doing all the right things...and none of the wrong things! Incredibly complicated. There is no way I can ever manage working on various computers at different locations, let alone just my own, it seems.

I removed Kontakt from my computer for now. I swear I downloaded an installer that installed a separate installer just to install the free factory bank. It required that I register and create a login to do that. That's ok, I did it. And the only way I could download it was using that login. Alright. But supposedly I need to register it using a separate utility so that it won't run in demo mode? Really not sure. All I know is the free Kontakt Player and the free bank were running in demo mode for about a minute before locking me out and telling me my demo ran out? I reopened it and then it seemed ok for a few more minutes. Lost quite a bit of confidence in using it. It also installed, with no option given, 65MB of pdfs in every language they offer :puf_unhappy:

Not sure I'm willing to throw money at libraries that are so complicated to install. Aside from that, I've been spending a great deal of time trying VSTs and more time installing them and even more time uninstalling them. They are inconsistent in installation processes and where each installs stuff—it's all over the place.

That and I have less confidence buying them. I had an Arturia plugin, that I only had an AU installed. So I logged into my Arturia account to get the VST...and the plugin is no longer available! So here we go...this is how it is, right? While there's some people having doubts about the future of REs, there is much more to be doubtful of with the future of each of your VSTs right now. Currently, all REs you have purchased are working in Reason and are available for you to download and sync from your account. With VSTs, there are countless ones that become incompatible day-to-day it seems. Handfuls probably just lost support as I was typing this. Haha

madmacman
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02 May 2017

Thanks to both of you for this insight. Looks like nothing has changed much since I gave up the plugin madness years ago. :(

Before I switched to Reason, I stripped down my entire setup to free- & shareware plugins. Which means: a single file which needs to be placed into the currect folder and that's it. No installation woes, not a dozen different copy protection types (shareware has been either "secret" download of full file or serial number), and not mbytes of data crap all over my harddisk.

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tronam
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02 May 2017

Yes, plugin management over the longterm can get tricky unless you meticulously keep track of and maintain them all through every DAW and OS transition. I have enough dead, broken projects over the years to fill a graveyard. It's still worth it for me though to be able to access all my past investments in orchestral sounds (EastWest/ProjectSam/Spitfire etc...). If given a choice though, like with ReSpire, I'll be getting the RE first.
Music is nothing else but wild sounds civilized into time and tune.

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The_G
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02 May 2017

That's not an issue with most VST/AU devs. Buying and installing from Synapse, iZotope, U-He, Plugin Alliance, Soundtoys, etc. is super easy.
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Flandersh
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02 May 2017

When reading the title, I thought about hearing about tips for learning to hate buying and installing VST, since that sounded like a great idea for financial savings.

That said, In general I do not have any special problems with VST, neither in buying, installing, or stability. It is for the most part done in a moment to buy and install, and it crash the host very seldom. For a few plugins, I think the the installing or authorizing process have been rather awkward; among them a kontakt player based product, and some plugins where the challenge and response mechanism didn't work smooth.

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Karim
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02 May 2017

EnochLight wrote:Just picked up Output's Exhale and Rev. Holy freaking crap ...

If someone on KVR starts ranting about how "inferior" RE's are to VST, I'm going to punch a bag of puppies.
I think my last install of kontakt 5.5 (or 5.6 uhm ??) on Mac, he never got me hurt at all.
I own 8Dio, Projectsam Symphobia and Omnisphere 2 but I have never had installation problems.
I admit, however, that I have not yet bought anything from Otuput and at this point this post frightens me a bit :shock:
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Loque
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02 May 2017

When i think about the many different devs of my RE, i have to handle each individual with serials, dl managetr, protection stuff aso... I luv to click "sync all". I realy gonna check accurately which VST i gonna buy...
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Tumble
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02 May 2017

I almost laughed out loud when installing Arturia V instruments. It wasn't complex in any way, but I couldn't help but notice the absurd amount of PNG files it installs. The Modular V alone has 86k (....) files in the Bitmap folder.

avasopht
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02 May 2017

Installation and configuration of some software environments can be a bit of a headache, but nothing beats the sense of relief when you've finally got it all figured out and set up :puf_smile: :rt:

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Oquasec
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02 May 2017

Been a vst user 2-3 years before rack extensions existed, but most of my bought plugs are those :]
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normen
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02 May 2017

Mhm, my native plugins are only a handful really: The Sonnox Oxford Suite (EQ, dynamics, limiter, reverb, de-esser etc.), Melodyne Studio, Waves Vocal Rider, Acusonics era-D and drumatom, Sound Radix Drum Leveler, WaveMachine Drumagog, ProAudioDSPs Dynamic Spectrum Mapper and maybe a few small ones I forgot now (apart from the UAD ones which I mainly use live on the Apollo but also for mixing).

Acusonics lately decided to go from Plugin Alliances copy protection to their own solution.. So I have different logins on websites for each of these, have to check the updates for each of them separately every now and then, have two different dongles connected to my computer (at least most of them use iLok) and three or four different separate "installer/authorizer" apps that regularly seem to forget their login data even though MacOS provides a keychain... So yeah, SIGH!

Luckily I only have to do all this on the main mixing computer, my Reason "synth rig" will definitely stay free of native plugins!

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JiggeryPokery
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02 May 2017

joeyluck wrote: With VSTs, there are countless ones that become incompatible day-to-day it seems. Handfuls probably just lost support as I was typing this. Haha
:lol:

Stop typing then!* :)


And yes, an area the size of Wales is lost every year to VST felling!



______

*sorry, old joke, couldn't resist...
http://www.snopes.com/music/artists/bono.asp

______
Last edited by JiggeryPokery on 02 May 2017, edited 1 time in total.

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JiggeryPokery
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02 May 2017

EnochLight wrote:Just picked up Output's Exhale and Rev. Holy freaking crap - what a train wreck of downloading and installation woes... Makes me long for the simplicity of Rack Extensions, that's for sure. :(

First, you buy them through the Output store, then you have to install a Steam-like download manager, then you download them - which takes FOREVER... then you have to go through a convoluted folder and file search process through Kontakt Player (which you have to have installed first). I shit you not, I'm getting grey hairs just at the thought of having to reinstall this in the future... :( :roll:

Anyone else here go through the shit needed to get these things running??

If someone on KVR starts ranting about how "inferior" RE's are to VST, I'm going to punch a bag of puppies.
Yes, yes, and thrice yes.

The only major advantage to RE's are consistent installation procedure, file location, and, most importantly for use, patch location.

The only VSTs I've reinstalled so far is my prize-winning copy of Imposcar 2, it was straightforward enough, I suppose, but the patches are just buried in its native Program Files folder, and PodFarm 2.5, which was the one I was dreading, given all my hatred of that damned L6 Monkey and actually it was pretty painless once I'd reset my long forgotten account password and set up L6 Authoriser.

I don't have 9.5 though. How are VST's handling their patches in 9.5? Are they automatically going to and remembering their correct default locations? Are you having to spend time browsing to the correct location every time you open them?

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Oquasec
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02 May 2017

Reason is such a neat and tidy little production environment. No problems with vsts but yep managing an extra folder is alil tipsy.
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mayzon
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02 May 2017

It would be nice if the prop shop became a VST outlet where you could download. check for updates and keep your VST collections in a nice tidy space just like Re's?

I wonder weather something like this is in the pipeline or not...

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adfielding
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02 May 2017

It happens infrequently, but every time I have to re-install my plug-ins I much prefer the process of clicking "sync all", grabbing a cuppa, and having everything ready to rock by the time I'm done over having to install a bunch of plug-ins from multiple vendors. It's not a major advantage, but I still appreciate it nonetheless.

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JiggeryPokery
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02 May 2017

adfielding wrote:It happens infrequently, but every time I have to re-install my plug-ins I much prefer the process of clicking "sync all", grabbing a cuppa, and having everything ready to rock by the time I'm done over having to install a bunch of plug-ins from multiple vendors. It's not a major advantage, but I still appreciate it nonetheless.
Yeah, it's beautiful, and so much better than manual plugin installs of old, except for one crucial caveat: I still think the Sync All option should allow us to deselect stuff we don't want to download ever again, or even stuff we don't want to download right this very minute. Both of these are pertinent in regards to very large sample libraries, particularly when the server is busy and downloads slow to a crawl, and you're stuck on those four massive 3GB sample libraries coming down a 4KB/s while all the quick 5MB downloads are stuck in the queue. By deselecting, you can avoid that one you'll never use again, and save that big download you don't need right now for a later time, so you can still one-click all the stuff you do want to install while having a cuppa.

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Karim
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02 May 2017

Loque wrote:When i think about the many different devs of my RE, i have to handle each individual with serials, dl managetr, protection stuff aso... I luv to click "sync all". I realy gonna check accurately which VST i gonna buy...
True. that's one of the best invention. So comfortable ... so unique .. and pirate proof




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Pralijah
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Joined: 17 Feb 2017

02 May 2017

Agree fully. Have tried demo versions of some VST and Kontakt, but every company has their own silly ways of making it a tiresome task.
It is not a pleasant thing to get different VST:s up and running. That was my choice to go with Reason, their approach to get a wholeness. Am glad Reasons opens up for VST world, but I will try hold my horses with what I really need and what is just a "christmas excitement". Will surely later get some VST:s but waiting before the 9.5 comes out and will try with free VST first and take it easy. See what happens with RE format and its developments etc. RE is just so good when handling updates and to keep track of all plugins if changing computer.
In the end I will buy the "must haves" in RE, and use VST as an extra force when needed.
Last edited by Pralijah on 28 Feb 2019, edited 1 time in total.
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ltbrunt00
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02 May 2017

I will be upgrading my main DAW workstation soon and dreading having to deal with all the VST licensing, Authorizations. Most of the well known VST developers system works like a charm but there are some that seem annoying. The Props got me spoiled with the Prop Shop.
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mcatalao
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02 May 2017

Yeah Reason/Propellerheads/Rack Extensions store is so much easy that going to the old process now it seems so archaic!

I haven't experienced that yet because i only had play (East West) and a couple of more stuff that i used with the EMI.
But seeing others complain, i think i might buy some more stuff from them (east West) and a couple of things from spectrasonics, and that is it... I think for everything related to Sound processing and effects, I will stil be using and buying Re's.

My music revolves a lot around a mix of live instruments and synths, so reason even without VST's was already all that i needed. I might take some stuff for a spin, like Spire (most probably will buy the Re instead), but i have so many things already in Reason that it must be something so compelling that i might stick to what i have already, at least for now!

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EnochLight
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02 May 2017

Admittedly, this is my first Kontakt library hassle (Output's Exhale and Rev are the first VST's that I've ever had this much frustration with). All of my others are simple single-file installers and then either "log in", "enter a serial", or "download a license file". Certainly not enough to make me abandon VST's.. but man, how I long for the simplicity of doing a "Sync All" from my Prop account and being done with instantly! :)
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RequiemMachine
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02 May 2017

EnochLight wrote:Just picked up Output's Exhale and Rev. Holy freaking crap - what a train wreck of downloading and installation woes... Makes me long for the simplicity of Rack Extensions, that's for sure. :(

First, you buy them through the Output store, then you have to install a Steam-like download manager, then you download them - which takes FOREVER... then you have to go through a convoluted folder and file search process through Kontakt Player (which you have to have installed first). I shit you not, I'm getting grey hairs just at the thought of having to reinstall this in the future... :( :roll:

Anyone else here go through the shit needed to get these things running??

If someone on KVR starts ranting about how "inferior" RE's are to VST, I'm going to punch a bag of puppies.
The Output stuff aren't technically VSTs. Kontakt is the VST. The Output stuff are Kontakt "Libraries". Also they take forever to download because they're 20gb, give it take. Anything that large is gonna take a little time. While Kontakt does have some great 3rd party libraries (like the Output stuff) its can be a pain to get setup. Once you get something set Kontakt's library its somewhat easier. Kontakt is powerful and pretty much industry standard...but damn is it archaic and pisses me off. I'm still hoping Props gives us an updated or new sampler using modern tech and maybe/hopefully the ability to convert contact libraries :)
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sdst
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02 May 2017

you want to install it for all users?. :lol: What a crap those vst Installer

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