Massive X !

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dusan.cani
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Post 04 Oct 2019

Here is useful rundown of the oscillator modes:

https://blog.native-instruments.com/mas ... r-section/

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dusan.cani
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Post 04 Oct 2019

And here very interesting and inspirational article about Massive X sound design and various sound designers.

https://blog.native-instruments.com/mas ... nd-design/

Check those demo songs at the end of article !!!

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MannequinRaces
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Post 04 Oct 2019

Once this gets an update and goes on sale I’ll be more interested. It sounds great.

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reddust
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Post 07 Oct 2019

Massive X looks really interesting to me too, and it seems like you can do a lot go things with it, but the biggest issue I have with it (apart from its price) is that I can't hear anything special, anything I can't already achieve by using the REs and plugins I already own.

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selig
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Post 07 Oct 2019

reddust wrote:
07 Oct 2019
Massive X looks really interesting to me too, and it seems like you can do a lot go things with it, but the biggest issue I have with it (apart from its price) is that I can't hear anything special, anything I can't already achieve by using the REs and plugins I already own.
I have to agree here, and add that it's disappointing you cannot see any visual feedback on the envelopes or LFOs which is especially important when learning a new instrument (or working with a recently updated instrument in this case). I guess it only really bothers me because there IS an envelope display drawn on the UI, but it's s single static image, so what is shows is wrong 99% of the time. This is especially true for elements like the "exciter envelope" which is not a common envelope type and would be far more intuitive IMO if you could see what you're actually doing.

As a fan of deep modulation patches, I've found Pigments to give me a much more satisfying "experience", not only when creating my own patches but especially when trying to modify even simple existing patches.

I DO appreciate the way Massive displays the amount of modulation around destination controls for each path, the drag-enabled modulation slots, and the Routing section (which looks like Reaktor!). It's just that if I'm in the middle of a creative outburst I find myself reaching for Pigments (or Europa and a few others).Was really excited about Massive X when it was announced, and I'm sure I'll use it (probably starting with a preset for inspiration).
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reddust
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Post 07 Oct 2019

selig wrote:
07 Oct 2019
...I'm sure I'll use it (probably starting with a preset for inspiration).
I would love to listen to that, can I actually find your music/work somewhere?

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dusan.cani
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Post 07 Oct 2019

selig wrote:
07 Oct 2019

As a fan of deep modulation patches, I've found Pigments to give me a much more satisfying "experience", not only when creating my own patches but especially when trying to modify even simple existing patches.
I consider Pigments modulation workflow quite complicated and messy. It is not straightforward as it should be:

- To set the modulation I must first click on the modulation source
- Then I have to precisely aim the mouse cursor around the edge of knob to set the modulation amount
- Then I must exit the modulation amount edit mode.
- In the default view I can't see what is modulating what. To figure it out (or to change modulation amount), I need to precisely aim the mouse cursor on the tiny "X" icon of some knob which is uncomfortable. Then I can see ALL modulation sources with their amounts even if they are not used for modulation of that parameter I've selected ! And then I need to find out which of them are modulating selected parameter.

So compare these overcomplicated steps above to modulation workflow in Massive X:

- Just drag the modulation source label to knob, hover over the modulation source label to set modulation amount and you are done !

- And you can always see what is modulating what because of those visible labels around knobs.

Another thing worth to mention is, that Pigments offers only 2 envelopes for modulation (if I don't count AMP env) and they are not loopable. In Massive X you are free to assign whichever type of modulation source you need to 8 slots. And envs are loopable.

But I still consider the Pigments as an awesome sounding synth with spirit which offers powerful features.

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selig
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Post 07 Oct 2019

reddust wrote:
07 Oct 2019
selig wrote:
07 Oct 2019
...I'm sure I'll use it (probably starting with a preset for inspiration).
I would love to listen to that, can I actually find your music/work somewhere?
My music is under "Giles Reaves" and goes back to the mid 80s, so it's pretty much out there somewhere. You'll also find album credits on a wide variety of genres for engineering/drums/perc/keys, which is not "my" music,
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reddust
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Post 07 Oct 2019

selig wrote:
07 Oct 2019
My music is under "Giles Reaves" and goes back to the mid 80s, so it's pretty much out there somewhere. You'll also find album credits on a wide variety of genres for engineering/drums/perc/keys, which is not "my" music,
Great, thanks... looks like a very productive career, gonna take a listen these days :)

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Boombastix
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Post 08 Oct 2019

I think, once some pro sound designers starts to make new patches people will start to see the potential in Massive X. The modulation capabilities are big, so they need to be more utilized. But I also think the synth can do interesting sounds that border between organic and synthesized, and once you start to modulate or sweep those there is something interesting for sure, and more importantly, useful. IIRC NI has said there is a UI update on its way so envelopes will be changing in the UI and so on. Though I do agree that given the few patches provided today, the infancy issues, it got off on the wrong foot. 1-2 yrs from now, people may look at Massive X quite differently.

One patch is Spizz that can go from pizz string, to metal string, to bottle/flute, to ... Nu Metal is another one, far out, but imagine what the mod wheel can do if used in a similar fashion in more patches and other sounds.

Though, it is increasingly harder and harder to create "new sounds", and designers may just do "another pluck" to fill the quota. But, I think given some time and top designers, Massive X has a huge potential to create new textures that lives up with the modulation possibilities at hand, w/o becoming another dub step sound machine. It is a big threshold to get over to design for it though, kinda like when DX7 came out, or, dare I say, VZ-1...
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reddust
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Post 08 Oct 2019

Boombastix wrote:
08 Oct 2019
I think, once some pro sound designers starts to make new patches people will start to see the potential in Massive X. The modulation capabilities are big, so they need to be more utilized. But I also think the synth can do interesting sounds that border between organic and synthesized, and once you start to modulate or sweep those there is something interesting for sure, and more importantly, useful. IIRC NI has said there is a UI update on its way so envelopes will be changing in the UI and so on. Though I do agree that given the few patches provided today, the infancy issues, it got off on the wrong foot. 1-2 yrs from now, people may look at Massive X quite differently.

One patch is Spizz that can go from pizz string, to metal string, to bottle/flute, to ... Nu Metal is another one, far out, but imagine what the mod wheel can do if used in a similar fashion in more patches and other sounds.

Though, it is increasingly harder and harder to create "new sounds", and designers may just do "another pluck" to fill the quota. But, I think given some time and top designers, Massive X has a huge potential to create new textures that lives up with the modulation possibilities at hand, w/o becoming another dub step sound machine. It is a big threshold to get over to design for it though, kinda like when DX7 came out, or, dare I say, VZ-1...
I really hope that Massive X becomes a more powerful tool in the near future. Maybe I'm just weird or have some anesthesia traits but how a (virtual) music instrument looks has some impact on me when making music, even when enjoying making music, and I like how Massive X UI looks like. But of course that's not everything and I really need it to offer something I can't already achieve with my current instruments. I like the idea of moving between organic and digital sounds, but that's something I personally can achieve with Resonans, Parsec 2 and Aparillo quite well.

I'll keep an eye on Massive X though, because it might become a pleasant surprise some day

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Biolumin3sc3nt
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Post 08 Oct 2019

Boombastix wrote:
08 Oct 2019
I think, once some pro sound designers starts to make new patches people will start to see the potential in Massive X. The modulation capabilities are big, so they need to be more utilized. But I also think the synth can do interesting sounds that border between organic and synthesized, and once you start to modulate or sweep those there is something interesting for sure, and more importantly, useful. IIRC NI has said there is a UI update on its way so envelopes will be changing in the UI and so on. Though I do agree that given the few patches provided today, the infancy issues, it got off on the wrong foot. 1-2 yrs from now, people may look at Massive X quite differently.

One patch is Spizz that can go from pizz string, to metal string, to bottle/flute, to ... Nu Metal is another one, far out, but imagine what the mod wheel can do if used in a similar fashion in more patches and other sounds.

Though, it is increasingly harder and harder to create "new sounds", and designers may just do "another pluck" to fill the quota. But, I think given some time and top designers, Massive X has a huge potential to create new textures that lives up with the modulation possibilities at hand, w/o becoming another dub step sound machine. It is a big threshold to get over to design for it though, kinda like when DX7 came out, or, dare I say, VZ-1...
Times this by a thousand. I've seen the reviews on Youtube by die hard fans on the UI and sound, but to My Ears it sounds amazing.

Nat
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Post 08 Oct 2019

Biolumin3sc3nt wrote:
08 Oct 2019
Boombastix wrote:
08 Oct 2019
I think, once some pro sound designers starts to make new patches people will start to see the potential in Massive X. The modulation capabilities are big, so they need to be more utilized. But I also think the synth can do interesting sounds that border between organic and synthesized, and once you start to modulate or sweep those there is something interesting for sure, and more importantly, useful. IIRC NI has said there is a UI update on its way so envelopes will be changing in the UI and so on. Though I do agree that given the few patches provided today, the infancy issues, it got off on the wrong foot. 1-2 yrs from now, people may look at Massive X quite differently.

One patch is Spizz that can go from pizz string, to metal string, to bottle/flute, to ... Nu Metal is another one, far out, but imagine what the mod wheel can do if used in a similar fashion in more patches and other sounds.

Though, it is increasingly harder and harder to create "new sounds", and designers may just do "another pluck" to fill the quota. But, I think given some time and top designers, Massive X has a huge potential to create new textures that lives up with the modulation possibilities at hand, w/o becoming another dub step sound machine. It is a big threshold to get over to design for it though, kinda like when DX7 came out, or, dare I say, VZ-1...
Times this by a thousand. I've seen the reviews on Youtube by die hard fans on the UI and sound, but to My Ears it sounds amazing.
well, i'm working with Massive X from when it was created, and i can say - it's amazing potencial synth, that have a very clear, warm and yeah - massive sounding! In August i released a soundbank forthis synth, i spent pretty much time on it but it's just a small potencial from what it can do..it's hard for newcomers but very interesting machine for those who love create own sound

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selig
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Post 08 Oct 2019

Boombastix wrote:
08 Oct 2019
IIRC NI has said there is a UI update on its way so envelopes will be changing in the UI and so on.
This will be exciting to see, if true! Wonder why they rushed it out without this basic feature in place?

As a Komplete customer for many years, I'll also be a Massive customer as well. The question for me will be more about "will I USE it" rather than "will I purchase it". These days I'm much more visually inspired by Pigments (especially the modulation routing system). Sonically they both get me excited equally, so "advantage pigments". For now…
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Kalm
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Post 08 Oct 2019

I got it cause I wanted a synth to learn in and out VST wise across all DAWs. I thought Serum would be it but idk. Massive X seems like my analog dream synth. I love Europa as its my favorite synth but something feels like Europa and Massive X are two different monsters that can achieve what I ultimately want with a sprinkle of Serum, The Legend, and Grain for momentary sounds. Both Massive X and Europa look pretty but I agree with Selig. If you're going to show what the envelope and LFO section does as a picture. . . just let it move lol why oh why would they do that?

I got to say though, there's no excuse to not get good sounds in todays world.
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dusan.cani
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Post 08 Oct 2019

Don't forget that Massive X will grow over time once you have paid for it...

"MASSIVE X will grow, adapt, and evolve with regular free updates – both inspired by, and to inspire, the cultures it helps to create."

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Boombastix
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Post 08 Oct 2019

selig wrote:
08 Oct 2019
Boombastix wrote:
08 Oct 2019
IIRC NI has said there is a UI update on its way so envelopes will be changing in the UI and so on.
Wonder why they rushed it out without this basic feature in place?
If you remember, they announced Massive X before they started to sell K12, but then it was delayed. I suppose the engineers had to admit they were not finished and mgt gave them 6mo. Then it came out, due to this decision and the mounting pressure from K12 buyers wanting it. Not finished, but I can see that mgt could not wait any longer. Perhaps there is this ugly stuff inside NI that caused it, Glassdoor will give some insight, but I don't know. It just is what it is.

I did my Maschine Studio upgrade from Komplete first tier to the second tier in that banging deal a while ago, so I am happy to get Massive X cheaply together with a huge amount of Kontakt libraries.
I also like it because it is different from my Diva/Synthmaster/xEpanse/FM8/Massive/Spire/Predator. But at the moment I have no time to understand it to design my own patches, so hopefully we get more of that soon enough.

They should get the AAS patch guru Daniel Stawczyk to make Massive X patches.
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miscend
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Post 08 Oct 2019

Boombastix wrote:
08 Oct 2019
selig wrote:
08 Oct 2019

Wonder why they rushed it out without this basic feature in place?
If you remember, they announced Massive X before they started to sell K12, but then it was delayed. I suppose the engineers had to admit they were not finished and mgt gave them 6mo. Then it came out, due to this decision and the mounting pressure from K12 buyers wanting it. Not finished, but I can see that mgt could not wait any longer. Perhaps there is this ugly stuff inside NI that caused it, Glassdoor will give some insight, but I don't know. It just is what it is.

I did my Maschine Studio upgrade from Komplete first tier to the second tier in that banging deal a while ago, so I am happy to get Massive X cheaply together with a huge amount of Kontakt libraries.
I also like it because it is different from my Diva/Synthmaster/xEpanse/FM8/Massive/Spire/Predator. But at the moment I have no time to understand it to design my own patches, so hopefully we get more of that soon enough.

They should get the AAS patch guru Daniel Stawczyk to make Massive X patches.
I read somewhere they have been working on Massive X for years. If true I don't blame NI management for pushing deadlines. You could argue that there was maybe poor project management somewhere along the way.

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SebAudio
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Post 10 Oct 2019

Kalm wrote:
08 Oct 2019
I agree with Selig. If you're going to show what the envelope and LFO section does as a picture. . . just let it move lol why oh why would they do that?
[off topic] they liked so much PX7 that they copied it ! :lol:

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selig
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Post 10 Oct 2019

New Massive X Filter tutorial:
https://blog.native-instruments.com/uti ... tent=owned

At the end of the article they also mention envelope animations (and more) coming this month!
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dusan.cani
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Post 10 Oct 2019

Look at the two additional new themes !

They look fantastic !

https://www.native-instruments.com/foru ... -1.360753/

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Kalm
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Post 10 Oct 2019

Now that's the smell of clean!
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reddust
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Post 11 Oct 2019

Nice new skins, I'm glad Reason Studios is now taking the design part in consideration when creating new REs too, I really enjoy working with a nice UI that inspires clean melodies and work as well

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