Discover is now allihoopa.com!

[Vince-Noir-99]

I'm sorry not to share the same enthusiasm as everyone else. This whole Discover now Allihoopa just seems like it took up precious time from Propellerhead that could and should have been dedicated to making Reason more of an efficient DAW by today's standards.

If you want to have a music sharing entity catering to what you're calling the 'mobile' music making crowd then I'm not here to say wether that's a good or bad thing. It's definitely something that's worth exploring but not for as long as it has been explored just to end up with another name on another site.

This all reverts back to the 'snails pace' theory many have labeled and accused Propellerhead of adopting as it pertains to moving Reason along as a full functioning DAW with no limitations.

It's what frustrates many who really love Reason but wonder when they'll finally turn the corner. Again, you know time has been waisted
when you read statements like: "And for Reason users – you can expect more Reason focus here at propellerheads.se in the future"

Damn!

Couldn't agree more! To me the brand Propellerhead is tools for music making. Them splitting up resources to create another i-social hypstacloud website would perhaps be much more practical if they were a huge company (meaning the development of their flagship product wouldn't be left behind).

Once again, a Propellerhead announcement is met with intense skepticism and declarations of non-participation by those whose lack of participation will go unnoticed. If anything, the dialogue here is likely to encourage more people to go find out what all the fuss is about. EXACT REVERSE OPPOSITE!

At least from my part, if my opinion comes across as naysaying, it's only because I'm much participatory in music making with Reason. I wouldn't waste my time commenting, otherwise. I get that everybody's got a cellphone, and that's where the dough is. But this isn't intrinsically connected to making music with Reason.

[QVprod]

"And for Reason users – you can expect more Reason focus here at propellerheads.se in the future"

I'm no fan of Allihoopa either, but I think a few people have misinterpreted the above statement. I don't believe Ernst is saying they haven't been developing Reason (they still work at about the same speed they did before the mobile apps it seems). He means the propellerheads.se website itself will be more centered on Reason (like it currently is now) vs the complaint a lot of users had about Discover being the main thing on display like it was before.

[miscend]

There's a rumour that Soundcloud is burning fast money and just might be going bust very soon. This just might be a worthy successor to that as a streaming service for artists to share their music.

[zeebot]

Good to see the prop ship being steered in the correct direction again. Discover was and is an idea with many many flaws.

[avasopht]

Newsflash: companies do and must invest in research and development, even in areas that you think might be useless and have nothing to do with their front line.

Some developments can turn into a dead end and you have no idea whether it's beneficial or not when you start out, but just look at Apple, who could have continued doing what they had always done but instead invested into an already saturated market and transformed the entire world of music as we know it.

They then did it again by entering a market that had absolutely nothing to do with their front line and again, a massive win.

You could always make the argument that it's wasting resources - that's the nature of innovation, you are investing time into a constant search. The outcome if successful is that Propellerhead have even more resources and also the platform generates more interest from developers who want to reach the market Propellerhead has.

So no, you don't need to charge money to make money from an app, gaining regular users is a valuable activity - so valuable in fact that userbase fuels a great deal of take overs, not for the company's products but their userbase. It's why Microsoft own Skype, Facebook bought a VR company, Google have a gaming API and offer free mail and have their employees devote an entire day to experimenting in whatever they choose.

[selig]

Good to see the prop ship being steered in the correct direction again. Discover was and is an idea with many many flaws.

As does every product ever produced… but there are also many good things about it too.
Funny how changing the name and the home page makes folks think the "ship" has suddenly changed course (or did I miss something else here?).

[dioxide]

I'm not sure that Apple is a good example given the bumpy road they've travelled. I'm a Apple fanboy (just don't mention the watch) so I'm aware of all the ups and downs they've had over the years. Apple were ready to go out of bust at one point, something I wouldn't like to see happen to Propellerhead. I do get your general idea that you won't reap any reward if you're not willing to take risks though and for Apple the risks payed off, even if thousands of other risk-taking innovators didn't make it.

To me the problem is that the goal for Discover/Allihoopa is essentially a selfish one. Someone here is chasing the dream of being a Zuckerberg style millionaire/billionaire here, as there has to be funding coming from somewhere to run a streaming/download service. I would have no problem with that if they were also protecting rights of their contributors but at the moment it is as if YouTube's T&Cs meant you lost ownership of any videos uploaded to their website. The success of a website in the digital age often means a near monopoly (Facebook, Google, YouTube, Spotify) and although I wish Propellerhead staff well, I don't want to see them succeed with this if they are actually discarding the rights of the people who are contributing to the success of their site. To my knowledge there is no reason why they could not offer what they offer now while retaining rights for the contributors.

Of course I'd like to see Allihoopa bring in a lot of income that would somehow benefit Propellerhead, but as I think any web service like this looks more like a liability than a potential win, I'm happy to see it sandboxed as a separate business as it had the potential to take down the whole shebang. Much safer to separate it out and probably easier to chase potential investors.

[dioxide]

Good to see the prop ship being steered in the correct direction again. Discover was and is an idea with many many flaws.

As does every product ever produced… but there are also many good things about it too.
Funny how changing the name and the home page makes folks think the "ship" has suddenly changed course (or did I miss something else here?).

Still heading towards an iceberg but thankfully in a different ship to the good ship Propellerhead.

[Vince-Noir-99]

Agreed, experimentation is positive AND necessary. The point I think most people have though is that PH ain't Apple, but a small, highly specialised team. I guess it's to be expected that in the Reasontalk forum people are enthusiastic about Reason, and not so much about hearing that the people who make Reason are launching a social website instead of an upgrade

I personally applaud revolutionising visions. Another small team comes to mind: Teenage Engineering. Hopefully PH will seriously expand (or already has) their resources in light of these last developments. I'm looking forward to seeing what's next.

[selig]

I'm not sure that Apple is a good example given the bumpy road they've travelled. I'm a Apple fanboy (just don't mention the watch) so I'm aware of all the ups and downs they've had over the years. Apple were ready to go out of bust at one point, something I wouldn't like to see happen to Propellerhead. I do get your general idea that you won't reap any reward if you're not willing to take risks though and for Apple the risks payed off, even if thousands of other risk-taking innovators didn't make it.

To me the problem is that the goal for Discover/Allihoopa is essentially a selfish one. Someone here is chasing the dream of being a Zuckerberg style millionaire/billionaire here, as there has to be funding coming from somewhere to run a streaming/download service. I would have no problem with that if they were also protecting rights of their contributors but at the moment it is as if YouTube's T&Cs meant you lost ownership of any videos uploaded to their website. The success of a website in the digital age often means a near monopoly (Facebook, Google, YouTube, Spotify) and although I wish Propellerhead staff well, I don't want to see them succeed with this if they are actually discarding the rights of the people who are contributing to the success of their site. To my knowledge there is no reason why they could not offer what they offer now while retaining rights for the contributors.

Of course I'd like to see Allihoopa bring in a lot of income that would somehow benefit Propellerhead, but as I think any web service like this looks more like a liability than a potential win, I'm happy to see it sandboxed as a separate business as it had the potential to take down the whole shebang. Much safer to separate it out and probably easier to chase potential investors.

How did I miss the part about it being sandboxed as a separate business?

[dioxide]

How did I miss the part about it being sandboxed as a separate business?

Nothing gets past Joey
http://www.reasontalk.com/viewtopic.php ... 50#p240366

[selig]

How did I miss the part about it being sandboxed as a separate business?

Nothing gets past Joey
http://www.reasontalk.com/viewtopic.php ... 50#p240366

OK. But. Not sure this changes anything for me - never saw Discover as a "selfish" thing. Never saw it as a distraction from Reason. Never saw it as a liability in any way whatsoever. But if calling it something new helps folks accept it, then I'm all for it - let's party!

[zeebot]

Good to see the prop ship being steered in the correct direction again. Discover was and is an idea with many many flaws.

Funny how changing the name and the home page makes folks think the "ship" has suddenly changed course (or did I miss something else here?).

Well it's more than that or at least it seems so in the sense that the marketing of discover was very much linked with reason but now there is a distance between the two with talk of incorporating other daws and the whole online cloudy collaborationy socially type thing that was discover being a separate entity within the props universe.

[joeyluck]

Good to see the prop ship being steered in the correct direction again. Discover was and is an idea with many many flaws.

Funny how changing the name and the home page makes folks think the "ship" has suddenly changed course (or did I miss something else here?).

Well it's more than that or at least it seems so in the sense that the marketing of discover was very much linked with reason but now there is a distance between the two with talk of incorporating other daws and the whole online cloudy collaborationy socially type thing that was discover being a separate entity within the props universe.

I'd say the goal could be even more so. It's branching out even more. Allihoopa still connects you with Reason. If you upload to Allihoopa via Take or Figure, you'll likely learn about Reason just the same as before. Now if they incorporate other 3rd party apps or direct upload, that's more potential exposure...

[selig]

Good to see the prop ship being steered in the correct direction again. Discover was and is an idea with many many flaws.

Funny how changing the name and the home page makes folks think the "ship" has suddenly changed course (or did I miss something else here?).

Well it's more than that or at least it seems so in the sense that the marketing of discover was very much linked with reason but now there is a distance between the two with talk of incorporating other daws and the whole online cloudy collaborationy socially type thing that was discover being a separate entity within the props universe.

OK, more stuff I've missed - where are you reading this?

[doctecazoid]

The best sentence in Ernst's Blog was that : "And for Reason users – you can expect more Reason focus here at propellerheads.se in the future." ... at least it would be good to know how he define "future" ...

Now this is music to my ears.

[avasopht]

I'm not sure that Apple is a good example given the bumpy road they've travelled. I'm a Apple fanboy (just don't mention the watch) so I'm aware of all the ups and downs they've had over the years. Apple were ready to go out of bust at one point, something I wouldn't like to see happen to Propellerhead. I do get your general idea that you won't reap any reward if you're not willing to take risks though and for Apple the risks payed off, even if thousands of other risk-taking innovators didn't make it.

To me the problem is that the goal for Discover/Allihoopa is essentially a selfish one. Someone here is chasing the dream of being a Zuckerberg style millionaire/billionaire here, as there has to be funding coming from somewhere to run a streaming/download service. I would have no problem with that if they were also protecting rights of their contributors but at the moment it is as if YouTube's T&Cs meant you lost ownership of any videos uploaded to their website. The success of a website in the digital age often means a near monopoly (Facebook, Google, YouTube, Spotify) and although I wish Propellerhead staff well, I don't want to see them succeed with this if they are actually discarding the rights of the people who are contributing to the success of their site. To my knowledge there is no reason why they could not offer what they offer now while retaining rights for the contributors.

Of course I'd like to see Allihoopa bring in a lot of income that would somehow benefit Propellerhead, but as I think any web service like this looks more like a liability than a potential win, I'm happy to see it sandboxed as a separate business as it had the potential to take down the whole shebang. Much safer to separate it out and probably easier to chase potential investors.

I'm definitely with you there. To sum up my thoughts it is simply that I only support win / wins, but at the moment allihoopa allows a win/lose with someone making being able to monetize user's content at no cost. They could add a share-alike license, which has worked really well in the software world and might actually be the perfect type of license for music.

[gak]

Look, I'm just gonna blurt on in here.........I don't get it. Why does this benefit one single user that was using "discovery" ??

[earwig83]

This seems like a bad rebrand. I also noticed that there is still only reason products on allihoopa so why would they break the branding scheme like this? Do they plan on including things from other music making programs in the future?

Not to mention the name is terrible. Discover was great branding and connected well with the product. If anybody from the community actually cared about such a service, it would have taken off. It's just not what we wanted. I just don't think this was the right direction for Props to take in general. They should have focused on making reason better and more apps and making RE and native devices into little apps too.

Something tells me the rebrand is so that they can slowly fade it away outright without making it look like a failure. They will market it on the front page of props for a bit and then slowly minimize mention of it. If discover died while being so deeply integrated into reason menus, it would look bad.

None the less, I wish them well with it. I'll just stick to reason and sharing my "finished" music with people via soundcloud.

edit: spelling

[dioxide]

OK, more stuff I've missed - where are you reading this?

http://www.reasontalk.com/viewtopic.php ... 02#p246659

[Spryx]

My, this is a divisive issue we have here....

I don't make a living from music, but I really have enjoyed using Discover. This is coming from a guy that hates looking at his facebook everyday and doesn't "get" twitter. I will admit the name is rather odd, but it works. I think the re-branding works, and the site looks much better. Figure and Take have no doubt brought many new users to Reason. As long as the SDK is updated, I think PH is on track.

[zakalwe]

have they fixed it so you can actually download and import audio from it yet or is this just a highly marketed product abandonment because they realised that no one wants a shit version of splice?

[4filegate]

critical opinions are terrific! these want only your heartbeat - where is the fact of "heart keeps dancing

[miscend]

Apart from being quite difficult to spell, is Allihoopa SEO optimised?

[avasopht]

have they fixed it so you can actually download and import audio from it yet or is this just a highly marketed product abandonment because they realised that no one wants a shit version of splice?

Splice looks really interesting (well more so the beat maker).