Discover is now allihoopa.com!

[avasopht]

Can anyone give me an example of a situation where a non-famous, non-wealthy musician was ripped off by someone stealing their music in the past 20 years? Just wondering how widespread the problem is.

I wouldn't say that's widespread, and for obvious reasons - it's infringement, yet it still happens.

And that's without there being a, "do what the hell you want with it," license - with that license I'm 100% certain it would happen a great deal more as using it would be an actual viable option

[joeyluck]

Yeah, if I want to maintain all rights to my songs, I will distribute via other channels.

When I post specifically to Allihoopa, I want to collaborate and I want people to use my stuff, even for commercial use. I really only care that I be given credit if something I did is published outside of Allihoopa.

[Vince-Noir-99]

Can anyone give me an example of a situation where a non-famous, non-wealthy musician was ripped off by someone stealing their music in the past 20 years? Just wondering how widespread the problem is.

I wouldn't say that's widespread, and for obvious reasons - it's infringement, yet it still happens.

And that's without there being a, "do what the hell you want with it," license - with that license I'm 100% certain it would happen a great deal more as using it would be an actual viable option

Interesting!

I can't give any example but I've heard from engineers who work(ed) in rather large (popular) circles in the US that it happens all the time. My understanding is that it doesn't necessarily mean there are evil producers looking to steal other people's work. Relating from personal experience with collaborations, I would guess that often times the 'villain' in question feels like they're bringing an idea forward. I'm talking about unreleased music, that could have been demoed in some way (live or recorded).

In one example, I was working as assistant for a composer (nice premises) and I tried to write some stuff for a project that required a Brazilian feel. I ended up with a nice groove which as usual got rejected by the client etc.. Some time later, the composer played me his forthcoming EP collaboration with a singer, and there was my groove (same progression and melody) in one of the songs. It had obviously been skilfully replayed better than I could ever do, with a ton of music knowledge I still don't have to this day, to harmonise and develop it into a proper song.
I didn't feel bad at all, but I wondered: what if that groove had been for me something 'hot' I had planned to release?
I guess the moral, as the above engineers often repeated to us (they were teachers at my school) is it's not much about how good you are, but how BADLY you want to make it. Cool story, bro. Brings me back to US&A.

[joeyluck]

Just had a thought... Since Allihoopa is under Allihoopa AB and no longer a Propellerhead product. Does this discussion belong in the Propellerhead General forum as it is now? Or is this specific thread fair game since it's Propellerhead news as it speaks of Discover (a Propellerhead product) becoming Allihoopa? Lol



But for the future, perhaps we could have a new forum for Allihoopa discussion? Perhaps a sub-forum under Music?

[Vince-Noir-99]

Just had a thought... Since Allihoopa is under Allihoopa AB and no longer a Propellerhead product. Does this discussion belong in the Propellerhead General forum as it is now? Or is this specific thread fair game since it's Propellerhead news as it speaks of Discover (a Propellerhead product) becoming Allihoopa? Lol



But for the future, perhaps we could have a new forum for Allihoopa discussion? Perhaps a sub-forum under Music?

Haha, yeah.. I was also noticing this thread has over 3K views! Seems like a very poppy topic

[MattiasHG]

Let it go

They don't care, or they would have done that. It's been mentioned countless times. See how the only questions being answered are the ones that avoid this completely?

You mean the questions about copyright? Sorry, not our intention! I was under the impression we had talked about that a number of times.

The reason for the broad rights is so that we don't inhibit the creativity. It allows open sharing and collaboration (for those that want to do that, mind you) and free building on, remixing, adding, chopping, slicing, collaborating and more without having to worry about potential legal ramifications down the line. This is copy-pasted straight from the Terms of Service, and really is what we mean:

"Because we offer an open music sharing service, we ask for broad rights, so we can publish files on the Internet, and so others can freely use the stuff that is posted. In kind, you’ll be able to use everything you find on the service."

At this point in time, Allihoopa's all about the openness and joy of music-making. There are plenty of ways to sell your music, publish it privately and so on but there are very few places where collaboration is truly open.

Mattias, I notice that there is no longer a survey available. There is also no email contact listed for Allihoopa directly.
Is there a particular contact to send requests/suggestions? The Facebook page? Thanks!

Ah, fair point! Since Allihoopa's being built up right now, some things will pop up down the line — check back often for updates — but yeah, for now I recommend the Facebook page or a tweet.

[joeyluck]

The reason for the broad rights is so that we don't inhibit the creativity. It allows open sharing and collaboration (for those that want to do that, mind you) and free building on, remixing, adding, chopping, slicing, collaborating and more without having to worry about potential legal ramifications down the line. This is copy-pasted straight from the Terms of Service, and really is what we mean:

"Because we offer an open music sharing service, we ask for broad rights, so we can publish files on the Internet, and so others can freely use the stuff that is posted. In kind, you’ll be able to use everything you find on the service."

At this point in time, Allihoopa's all about the openness and joy of music-making. There are plenty of ways to sell your music, publish it privately and so on but there are very few places where collaboration is truly open.

And I agree with that. But would implementing an underlying attribution license impede or break any of that? Folks could still do everything freely as they do now, but would only be required under the license to attribute credit. If artists can publish outside of Allihoopa without crediting the artists whose pieces they built upon, it doesn't feel or look too collaborative.

[ClassickHitz]

Can anyone give me an example of a situation where a non-famous, non-wealthy musician was ripped off by someone stealing their music in the past 20 years? Just wondering how widespread the problem is.

http://www.gossipcop.com/bruno-mars-sto ... -sequence/

I used this as an example because it's the most recent. However there are tons of examples that occur on a yearly basis where this happens.

Oftentimes it's mainstream well known artist taking ideas from unknown artist thinking that due to their notoriety they can get away with it.

[ClassickHitz]

"And for Reason users – you can expect more Reason focus here at propellerheads.se in the future"

I'm no fan of Allihoopa either, but I think a few people have misinterpreted the above statement. I don't believe Ernst is saying they haven't been developing Reason (they still work at about the same speed they did before the mobile apps it seems). He means the propellerheads.se website itself will be more centered on Reason (like it currently is now) vs the complaint a lot of users had about Discover being the main thing on display like it was before.

Wait, what-huh?

If Reason has been the main focus then there is absolutely no reason to state users can expect more focus in the future as it would already be implied. Unless, Props indeed put Reason on the back burner a bit and felt users had come to that very realization whether it be true or not. In that case you have to address the elephant in the room. Of which Ernest did.

At least that's how I read and perceived it.

[joeyluck]

I believe the statement about more focus on Reason was pertaining to the website, propellerheads.se. Since Allihoopa has it's own site. Behind the scenes focus is a different thing

[jfrichards]

Can anyone give me an example of a situation where a non-famous, non-wealthy musician was ripped off by someone stealing their music in the past 20 years? Just wondering how widespread the problem is.

http://www.gossipcop.com/bruno-mars-sto ... -sequence/

I used this as an example because it's the most recent. However there are tons of examples that occur on a yearly basis where this happens.

Oftentimes it's mainstream well known artist taking ideas from unknown artist thinking that due to their notoriety they can get away with it.

Having been a bass player in a funk band for years, I can tell you that the Sequence song and the Mars/Ronson song are only similar in the drum beat. All the other similarities are as similar to 100 other funk songs of the day. And I can find a royalty-free version of that beat in Reason itself. I'm looking for one example of an actual rip-off. Now it may be that the reason there are very few ripoffs is because of the existence of the strict copyright laws and Allihoopa will actually open up a new era of ripping off. I think that is the fear of many.

Joey, I think it is a legitimate part of the "Discover becomes Allihoopa" discussion to debate whether or not it will usher in a new phase of plagiarism (uncredited, unpaid use of music), because Props are expanding the website and it seems to be taking off. And long before the fears are addressed. It would be minimally good for Props to include a box everyone has to check before dropping to Allihoopa that says "I agree to allow the free use of this music for any purpose".

[joeyluck]

On this topic, pretty lame that people are rating Figure so low (see current version ratings) because of the Allihoop small banner addition. This for a free app that doesn't bombard you with ads and sneaky in-app purchases...people need to get over it. At least Allihoopa is relevant to the app. Some people...SMH

[chimp_spanner]

You know, I've voiced my opinion on the Discover/Allihoopa thing plenty of times (particularly with regard to an option for showcasing work without offering it for collaboration) but I just realised something tonight; I give things up for collaboration all the time. Like, I produce sample packs, construction kits, sound effects libraries, etc. Really, is that any different? Okay so it's sold - there's a short term/instant monetary gain. But beyond that anyone could use my stuff and go on to make way more than they paid for it. But then so could I. And maybe that's the thing that people need to keep sight of here; you're as free to exploit your idea as anyone else is, and if they really do plan on doing something huge with it they'd be setting themselves up for a world of trouble when their hit song turns up somewhere else on a different label/publisher. So that being the case, if two Allihoopa users strike creative gold and really want to do something with an idea, it'd be in both of their interests to do it properly. Or, just do it in the spirit of pure creativity/fun. Which I suppose is what it's all about.

That said, I would still be reluctant to put my absolute best stuff on there but again, I face that dilemma all the time even with my commercial work. Do something I'm proud to put my name on and risk giving something away, or hold back the goodies and risk misrepresenting myself. I guess my point is that this isn't specific to Allihoopa.

Just thinking out loud here!

[QVprod]

"And for Reason users – you can expect more Reason focus here at propellerheads.se in the future"

I'm no fan of Allihoopa either, but I think a few people have misinterpreted the above statement. I don't believe Ernst is saying they haven't been developing Reason (they still work at about the same speed they did before the mobile apps it seems). He means the propellerheads.se website itself will be more centered on Reason (like it currently is now) vs the complaint a lot of users had about Discover being the main thing on display like it was before.

Wait, what-huh?

If Reason has been the main focus then there is absolutely no reason to state users can expect more focus in the future as it would already be implied. Unless, Props indeed put Reason on the back burner a bit and felt users had come to that very realization whether it be true or not. In that case you have to address the elephant in the room. Of which Ernest did.

At least that's how I read and perceived it.

What Joey said:

I believe the statement about more focus on Reason was pertaining to the website, propellerheads.se. Since Allihoopa has it's own site. Behind the scenes focus is a different thing

If you check the website now it's Reason focused. Allihoopa, formally Discover (remember it was a beta), did not fail, it just got launched on it's own separate website. Props have released 5 updates (including the 8.3 update) to Reason since launching Discover.

[QVprod]

And maybe that's the thing that people need to keep sight of here; you're as free to exploit your idea as anyone else is, and if they really do plan on doing something huge with it they'd be setting themselves up for a world of trouble when their hit song turns up somewhere else on a different label/publisher. So that being the case, if two Allihoopa users strike creative gold and really want to do something with an idea, it'd be in both of their interests to do it properly. Or, just do it in the spirit of pure creativity/fun. Which I suppose is what it's all about.

That's the thing here. Anything posted on Aliihoopa is royalty free. So if two people have releases based off the same song, no legal action can be taken, not even from the original contributor. The only thing that would cause someone to properly credit people is a moral conscience. It's definitely made to be more of a fun thing, and from a business standpoint, it makes sense for Props to do this since the hobbyist market is much larger than the people actively seeking a career with music.

[ravisoni]

Can anyone give me an example of a situation where a non-famous, non-wealthy musician was ripped off by someone stealing their music in the past 20 years? Just wondering how widespread the problem is.

Although some producers in Bollywood are known for blatantly lifting stuff, here's a pretty solid example of one certain producer being "inspired" by a couple guys having some fun.

Original (only the chorus, the verse is a folkish tune, so can't said to have been copied. EDIT: Nevermind, even the concept/parts of verse are lifted):

The film song:

Of course, I don't mind allihoopa at all, since I'm a regular at freesound and see allihoopa from a "use it if you want and if you don't care" perspective.

Just thought I'd let you in on an example that you requested.

[Jagwah]

It's nice that Props have big ideas like this and I wish them the best of luck with it. I would like to know details about how much outsourcing there really is, because as a Reason user.... well, I invested a lot of money in REs, money which I am happy to have spent, and I know a lot of other people did too. We multiplied the money we typically spent on upgrades many times over through REs... was it greedy of me to think this would mean huge leaps and bounds in the progress / technology / innovation of Reason? Because that has come to a halt, and with big projects that are still not Reason this halt has not really stopped yet.

If I was investing in something like this (Allihoopa), one thing I would do would be to get all hands on the new social site constantly in an effort to make it come across as being well populated, as being well populated is key in battling any competition imo. So I have this feeling that all Props have been focused on this venture and will probably need to be for some time.

Again it is nice to see an innovative vision of Props, I'm warming to the idea, and I hope (for the sake of Reason) that they kick ass with it.

[Zerosity]

Can anyone give me an example of a situation where a non-famous, non-wealthy musician was ripped off by someone stealing their music in the past 20 years? Just wondering how widespread the problem is.

Edit: Just realized this was already posted. Guess I should finish reading the thread first.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timbala ... ontroversy

[eXode]

Don't know if this has been mentioned already, but Allihoopa is it's own company, separated from propellerhead. You'll see this if you examine the site certificate (Allihoopa AB vs Propellerhead Software AB).

[madmacman]

Don't know if this has been mentioned already, but Allihoopa is it's own company, separated from propellerhead. You'll see this if you examine the site certificate (Allihoopa AB vs Propellerhead Software AB).

Was one of the first questions by Joey and already answered by Mattias:

http://reasontalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4 ... 02#p246659

[4filegate]

It still lasts for it to build the interface New brand &. enterprise - RE allihoopa comes and replacement Upload field in Reason8/9 - one will pay monthly/yearly money to the 1. RE company ?

[avasopht]

It still lasts for it to build the interface New brand &. enterprise - RE allihoopa comes and replacement Upload field in Reason8/9 - one will pay monthly/yearly money to the 1. RE company ?

You know, I do suspect that the subscription model is inevitable in most industries. It's quite easy to give people free access to a well featured product so that you can immediately create great music, quickly hooking them into the environment and platform. From there it's just as matter of providing a worthwhile value proposition to upgrade, and failing that it is okay to have a population of free users anyway.

[4filegate]

and failing that it is okay to have a population of free users anyway.

"Advertising is the art of aiming for the head and hitting the wallet"

There is interest at customer address and the credit card of him. Service is never free - this paid the software migration cost.

[Jagwah]

Don't know if this has been mentioned already, but Allihoopa is it's own company, separated from propellerhead. You'll see this if you examine the site certificate (Allihoopa AB vs Propellerhead Software AB).

Yeah and because it's the same office - I imagine every morning at 9 am sharp a big bus pulls up outside, and around 100 people get off. People on the street stop and stare, point and whisper: "Oh wow I think that's the Allihoopa people." Either that or Mattias got the squeaky chair no one uses out of the cleaning cupboard for when the 'Allihoopa dude' shows up. D:

Hey, your profile picture went all cartoony?

[AlienJunk]

Propellerhead Discover is indeed now Allihoopa.com. You can read Ernsts thoughts on our blog: https://www.propellerheads.se/blog/welcome-allihoopa

Dear Propellerheads Representative,

A load of well versed marketing rubbish as usual. From both of you.

I look back on the days when Propeller head were genuinely onboard with their customers, rather than these days when you keep telling us how onboard you are, but it's all a load of BS. I'm totally fine with your business interests, thats what companies exist for, but please ease up on the 'we are here for you guys' rubbish.