Channel Strip Plugins vs the built-in SSL strips

[robussc]

Has there been any discussion about how much saturation the SSL mixer adds to sound? As it is an analog modeled mixer that should be the case. But the manual doesn't discuss it and Reason Studios definitely don't brag about it (except stating that it's modeled on an SSL desk).

I was watching this and thinking "hey I have that SSL strip on every mixer channel..." - but do I? Because another part of me is like, Reason is aimed at beat makers and EDMers and they want perfectly clean busses. So I think that while the SSL mixer looks like an analog mixer, it's a purely clean digital mixer under the covers and there is no analog modeling going except for the bus compressor and probably that's not even analog, just a clean digital implementation of the characteristics?

[selig]

Has there been any discussion about how much saturation the SSL mixer adds to sound? As it is an analog modeled mixer that should be the case. But the manual doesn't discuss it and Reason Studios definitely don't brag about it (except stating that it's modeled on an SSL desk).

OMG YES this has been discussed many time, and no saturation is added because for one it is modeling a very clean version of the SSL (J series) - and even if it DID add saturation I’d likely want a way to control it/turn it off. Having worked on a J series many times, it is not the console to use if you want any trace of “color”!

I was watching this and thinking "hey I have that SSL strip on every mixer channel..." - but do I? Because another part of me is like, Reason is aimed at beat makers and EDMers and they want perfectly clean busses. So I think that while the SSL mixer looks like an analog mixer, it's a purely clean digital mixer under the covers and there is no analog modeling going except for the bus compressor and probably that's not even analog, just a clean digital implementation of the characteristics?

The Reason SSL accurately models the J Series EQ, filters, and dynamics sections, not the entire signal path so no summing or input circuitry etc.

The phrase “analog modeling” can apply to any/all aspects of an analog signal including (but hardly limited to) noise and distortion. But not always because we don’t always want all of the artifacts of the originals!

For example, I use several different tape models when mixing (in LUNA) but ALWAYS turn off the noise module, if just because I fought against noise for so many years I never want to hear it again!

[robussc]

Has there been any discussion about how much saturation the SSL mixer adds to sound? As it is an analog modeled mixer that should be the case. But the manual doesn't discuss it and Reason Studios definitely don't brag about it (except stating that it's modeled on an SSL desk).

OMG YES this has been discussed many time, and no saturation is added because for one it is modeling a very clean version of the SSL (J series) - and even if it DID add saturation I’d likely want a way to control it/turn it off. Having worked on a J series many times, it is not the console to use if you want any trace of “color”!

I was watching this and thinking "hey I have that SSL strip on every mixer channel..." - but do I? Because another part of me is like, Reason is aimed at beat makers and EDMers and they want perfectly clean busses. So I think that while the SSL mixer looks like an analog mixer, it's a purely clean digital mixer under the covers and there is no analog modeling going except for the bus compressor and probably that's not even analog, just a clean digital implementation of the characteristics?

The Reason SSL accurately models the J Series EQ, filters, and dynamics sections, not the entire signal path so no summing or input circuitry etc.

The phrase “analog modeling” can apply to any/all aspects of an analog signal including (but hardly limited to) noise and distortion. But not always because we don’t always want all of the artifacts of the originals!

For example, I use several different tape models when mixing (in LUNA) but ALWAYS turn off the noise module, if just because I fought against noise for so many years I never want to hear it again!

Thanks Selig and sorry for flogging a dead horse! I was just starting to question my sanity as it seemed like it was just channel strips all the way down!

The more I thought about it the more obvious it became that looks can be deceiving. But it’s still weird to have a channel strip inside a channel strip!

A button to toggle between analog modeling and pure digital would be quite nice though…

[dioxide]

I went to a presentation by SSL recently and they talked about how clean the newer (90s onwards) consoles are. Something about them not having transformers. When people talk about colour they must be talking about the earlier consoles. I can't imagine SSL's own emulation of the J series adds any (or much) colour either.

SSL introduced SuperAnalogue design in the SL 9000 J Series console, which utilized a capacitor-free signal path to achieve very high bandwidth with extremely low distortion.

More here: http://sslweb.solidstatelogic.com.s3.am ... e-Veil.pdf

[Loque]

If the"pros" use this, I need to do so too, because a "pro" said this in a video...

</sarcasm>

[Popey]

Has there been any discussion about how much saturation the SSL mixer adds to sound? As it is an analog modeled mixer that should be the case. But the manual doesn't discuss it and Reason Studios definitely don't brag about it (except stating that it's modeled on an SSL desk).

OMG YES this has been discussed many time, and no saturation is added because for one it is modeling a very clean version of the SSL (J series) - and even if it DID add saturation I’d likely want a way to control it/turn it off. Having worked on a J series many times, it is not the console to use if you want any trace of “color”!

I was watching this and thinking "hey I have that SSL strip on every mixer channel..." - but do I? Because another part of me is like, Reason is aimed at beat makers and EDMers and they want perfectly clean busses. So I think that while the SSL mixer looks like an analog mixer, it's a purely clean digital mixer under the covers and there is no analog modeling going except for the bus compressor and probably that's not even analog, just a clean digital implementation of the characteristics?

The Reason SSL accurately models the J Series EQ, filters, and dynamics sections, not the entire signal path so no summing or input circuitry etc.

The phrase “analog modeling” can apply to any/all aspects of an analog signal including (but hardly limited to) noise and distortion. But not always because we don’t always want all of the artifacts of the originals!

For example, I use several different tape models when mixing (in LUNA) but ALWAYS turn off the noise module, if just because I fought against noise for so many years I never want to hear it again!

Is it not modelled on the 9000k ssl desk, that is the claim on the website.

[robussc]

Is it not modelled on the 9000k ssl desk, that is the claim on the website.

That does seem to be the consensus from when it was released with Record, but as Selig notes it's far too clean for that. So it's more about modeling the behaviors of the desk - the EQ curves, the dynamics etc. rather than the sound.

[selig]

A button to toggle between analog modeling and pure digital would be quite nice though…

I think that having only one model would still leave you wanting for options. In addition to classics like the SSL E/G, I also like API and Neve console emulations. Also popular are Trident, EMI, Focusrite, Harrison, MCI, Helios, UA, Flickinger, and less common but still interesting offerings from Quad Eight, Spectratronics, Langavin, Sphere, Ampex, Fairchild, and Neotek!
And that's why I don't think grabbing a VST or RE is a bad idea, same for tape if you want to go that route. And like a real console or tape machine, you're likely going to settle on one as your main "go to" console or tape machine - but it's probably going to be different from the one(s) I choose, which are different from other folks etc. Basically when we're choosing a color to paint our room, we don't want restrictions on the options!

One feature lacking in Reason to make this approach more useful is grouped selections on plugins. Other DAWs can do this, and it's handy here so you can trim inputs of all channels at once for overall "color", or change the multi-track tape formula etc.

For me, that's the biggest advantage of a console approach like Reason (and LUNA), the ability to see all channel strips at once to quickly see which channels have EQ, or is any channel compressing more than intended, etc. A quick "at a glance" sanity check as I am used to doing often on analog consoles.

[robussc]

A button to toggle between analog modeling and pure digital would be quite nice though…

I think that having only one model would still leave you wanting for options. In addition to classics like the SSL E/G, I also like API and Neve console emulations. Also popular are Trident, EMI, Focusrite, Harrison, MCI, Helios, UA, Flickinger, and less common but still interesting offerings from Quad Eight, Spectratronics, Langavin, Sphere, Ampex, Fairchild, and Neotek!
And that's why I don't think grabbing a VST or RE is a bad idea, same for tape if you want to go that route. And like a real console or tape machine, you're likely going to settle on one as your main "go to" console or tape machine - but it's probably going to be different from the one(s) I choose, which are different from other folks etc. Basically when we're choosing a color to paint our room, we don't want restrictions on the options!

Luna is very nice in that respect.

For me, that's the biggest advantage of a console approach like Reason (and LUNA), the ability to see all channel strips at once to quickly see which channels have EQ, or is any channel compressing more than intended, etc. A quick "at a glance" sanity check as I am used to doing often on analog consoles.

100%! I want to keep using the main mixer as much as possible so I try to restrict my plugins to what is really necessary (which isn't many in all honesty).

[Neofolk]

Reason is really missing the boat here. It positions itself as an old school rack workflow, but there is no old school analog character. The mixer should have a sound. There should be a tape plugin. There should be character compressors and EQs. The lists goes on... I know we have VSTs, but why a DAW that promotes itself as an analog style workflow doesn't include common analog simulation, seems odd. Luna sounds pretty amazing with its extensions and Reason could be that and more with it's rack format. It will never happen and Ableton, Bitwig and all the rest will continue to gain marketshare and Reason will continue to lose it.

[bxbrkrz]

If there is one thing you don't want is a mixer with an 'old school analog character.' That's a mixer that needs maintenance from tech.

[mimidancer]

First, I love the SSL mixer in Reason. But if it is adding color, I have not noticed it. I believe it’s just a clean path that doesn’t add any harmonics.

There’s something about the sound of hitting an analog strip hard. If you’ve listened to any of my mixes, you’ll notice that I’m not afraid of noise. When Flood was mixing Violator, he talked about running the tracks into a PA and then recording them with mics to help capture some of the excitement that was lost going straight down to tape.

I’ve used some SSL-modeling VSTs, but for most of my songs, I bring my busses out to a cheap mixer with British-style preamps and hit it like it’s Super Bowl Sunday. I sum the busses to stereo, then master that.

Most people will never notice or hear that I did this — but I can hear it, and I can feel it.

[moalla]

I tried yesterday to tame the problematic Objekt "mellow tongue preset" at 320hz with the reason ssl, but the q factor isn´t tight enough and the filter db to weak, so forgottens Dynamic EQ plus synapses GQ-7 works much better, to bring down the exessive resonances of the preset.

The reason bus compressor is on the analog side, but a Lindell TE 100 together with Hornetplugins H76, HA2A and H4K console SSL emulation with its Tape MK2 behind, works way better to get the right amount of glue.

So analogish vibes are not the field of reasons stock effects, the most analogish EQ´s in reason are Trident-A Range and RE3Q.

I tried as well Te-100 Master EQ with RedRocks C1-L1 behind and it gives me more or less a comparable vibe like the H76+HA2A combination.

For Voices i still prefer the combination of xy EQ + TDR´s Kotelnikov and Molotok as channel strip

So to have the Console sound ITB its still a good thing to use the H4k bus comp with the tape mk2 behind a EQ and Comp, if your producing more midsounding orientet over dynamic tunes.

But i would say at the end of the day, for expecial sound mangeling, a pair of real tube devices like the MIc200 with JJ12au7 tubes installed for mastering an a dirt cheap vintage Daft Punk compressor like the Alesis 3630, B. MDX2000 from the 90´s are the much easier way for tracking drums and some special synth voices than ITB, but if your know how to manage this ITB, it sounds close enough.

a nice archive of small articles around equipment and artists you can find here, https://reverb.com/news

[selig]

I tried yesterday to tame the problematic Objekt "mellow tongue preset" at 320hz with the reason ssl, but the q factor isn´t tight enough and the filter db to weak, so forgottens Dynamic EQ plus synapses GQ-7 works much better, to bring down the exessive resonances of the preset.

Just goes to show you, everyone hears things differently - that's one of my favorite presets for playability, and I've used it and never once felt there were any resonances I needed to deal with.
I've always felt it sounded very balanced and natural, which is why it's so fun to play for me. I'd go as far as saying that patch is probably the best example of the high quality of that instrument.
So I loaded it up just to be sure I wasn't forgetting something, and it still sounds great to me!
There are no 'static resonances' with that patch, playing a different note shifts all harmonics accordingly - so if you make a cut at that frequency you'll only affect a certain note and not others.

All to say, if you're hitting a certain note (the E above middle C), there will be lots of energy at 320Hz, but other notes not so much.
It could be the buildup at that frequency was because the song was in E or the part contained lots of Es.
It could also be a room mode tuned to320Hz. Either way, I'm not seeing it coming from Objekt itself.