After using Ableton for a year, I'm going back to Reason.

[kitekrazy]

After reading 4 pages of the thread OP will go back to Live.

Every forum has a rally the fanboys posts.

[chimp_spanner]

It’s because Ableton is straight up ugly. It’s not fun to look at so it’s not fun to work in. Why would you want to spend any more time looking at that grey screen than you need to?

That's why I like it. I always think it was designed for laptops.

Not sure about tired at looking at a grey screen since that became a trend in software.

Tbh I don't necessarily mind if the general UI of my software is particularly exciting or not. I'm actually a fan of Reason's new UI. The rack is visually (over)stimulating as it is. The surrounding program should be simple and easy to decipher although some of the grey areas like the new browser and the editor tools look a little unpolished to me. The new dark mode, overall, is quite slick IMO.

My biggest problem with Live is that the flatness extends to everything, including its instruments and effects. So they end up having no discernible character that puts you in the mood to use that instrument. It's just another collection of very tiny orange check boxes, orange lines on a black screen, lots of text. A big part of what makes a synth or effect usable to me is the visual cues in the design as to what part of the 'circuit' the control is in, through panel shading or other graphical cues. That's totally missing in Live for me. Which is why when I was working in it more I would always opt for RRP, at which point Live kiiinda becomes what I imagined Reason eventually becoming.

[SebAudio]

Exactely my thoughts !

[jaeproduced]

It’s because Ableton is straight up ugly. It’s not fun to look at so it’s not fun to work in. Why would you want to spend any more time looking at that grey screen than you need to?

Agreed Ableton is like looking at a unfinished Beta Version that's meant for kids to play with...lol

[Mistro17]

I got Cubase a couple years ago and was glad I had RRP to bring with me. I have so many unfinished songs in Reason so that always gets me to pay a visit. But since R13.1, I find myself using Reason a lot more. Reason is just plain fun to work with. Felt that way since 3.0. I'm a visual person and Reason is very visual. Playing with hardware on the screen watching them all doing their thing at the same time is not something you experience in other DAWs.

[bxbrkrz]

After reading 4 pages of the thread OP will go back to Live.

Every forum has a rally the fanboys posts.

To be a Reason fanboy on Reason Talk is fair. Same for Cubase on a Cubase forum, etc.

I had to jump to Live because Reason Studios told me so. When I got the news I could open Reason inside other DAW I was like "OK, that's very smart. I get it. Not a fan of so much Live grey on their welcoming page, but fine. The next update will obviously be for the 100% Reason fanboys who are not asking much..." Reason Studios were right. Live was the best upgrade from Reason 11 for me.
I believe I only saw the grey theme the few seconds it took me to switch for something else the first time Live was running on my pc. OK, that was so bizarre I decided to switch back to the default grey, grey lite... It was horrible.
I think there is something about that grey that hit some people the wrong way, and I am one of them. It's a visceral reaction. Looking for years at Pro-24, then Cubase Atari ST, then Cubase on my old Mac Classic. Always very soothing. Still grey scale. Never a problem. I made sure I could switch the grey theme off forever before my purchase.

And as a bonus no need to reboot Live when trying them out over and over again depending on the mood (thank you Sonic Bloom for all your themes ).

[Ottostrom]

Speaking of Cubase. I was going through the "New in Cubase 14" list and although most of it was not very interesting, this one is something I hope RS is striving for with the new R13 browser:

[nebraskafire]

At the moment, because I record a lot of audio, I have the feeling that other DAWs are more suitable than Reason. Many workflows are simply quicker and easier. I like to start Reason when I'm looking for inspiration, but for the rest I prefer to work in other DAWs. I'm currently using an old version of Studio One Artist that I still had and I like it, but I still like to use Reason as a plugin for certain effects and instruments.

[kitekrazy]

Every forum has a rally the fanboys posts.

To be a Reason fanboy on Reason Talk is fair. Same for Cubase on a Cubase forum, etc.

I had to jump to Live because Reason Studios told me so. When I got the news I could open Reason inside other DAW I was like "OK, that's very smart. I get it. Not a fan of so much Live grey on their welcoming page, but fine. The next update will obviously be for the 100% Reason fanboys who are not asking much..." Reason Studios were right. Live was the best upgrade from Reason 11 for me.
I believe I only saw the grey theme the few seconds it took me to switch for something else the first time Live was running on my pc. OK, that was so bizarre I decided to switch back to the default grey, grey lite... It was horrible.
I think there is something about that grey that hit some people the wrong way, and I am one of them. It's a visceral reaction. Looking for years at Pro-24, then Cubase Atari ST, then Cubase on my old Mac Classic. Always very soothing. Still grey scale. Never a problem. I made sure I could switch the grey theme off forever before my purchase.

And as a bonus no need to reboot Live when trying them out over and over again depending on the mood (thank you Sonic Bloom for all your themes ).

There's a lot more honesty with criticism outside company sponsored forums.

I have most of the DAWs out there and the rounded corners on Cubase drive me crazy. Way too many GUIs are too dark.

[ltbrunt00]

I fall into this camp, will spend months in S1 and Nuendo and many times find myself moving the entire project over to Reason for better/quicker ideas. Reason needs to add that feature of exporting and importing projects from other DAW software that some are adding. I guarantee more people will either start projects in other DAW software and move it back to reason and export out of reason for the features Reason Studios don't have. I also hate Ableton, I find bitwig way more easy & fun to use.

[selig]

I fall into this camp, will spend months in S1 and Nuendo and many times find myself moving the entire project over to Reason for better/quicker ideas. Reason needs to add that feature of exporting and importing projects from other DAW software that some are adding. I guarantee more people will either start projects in other DAW software and move it back to reason and export out of reason for the features Reason Studios don't have. I also hate Ableton, I find bitwig way more easy & fun to use.

If you’re talking about the AAF exchange format, I’m all for it. It’s the first media exchange format that fulfills the promise of simple reliable file exchange between DAWs.
So far my experience has only been exporting from Logic and importing into LUNA, but so far it’s been flawless. It even gets audio clips placed correctly, muted clips correctly, and basic automation. Which means you don’t have to consolidate or otherwise “prepare” the audio for export as I have always done in the past.
I would use it ALL the time if Reason supported it, it would be a godsend for me and my current workflow starting in Reason and mixing in LUNA.

[Dafreeze]

Reason's target audience wouldn't even be able to spell 'microtuning', let alone know what it is. And they certainly would have no use for it.

I relate to the last sentence. I know what it is and have studied it and appreciate it - but have no use for it in my work. So knowing what it is and how to spell it doesn’t make any more likely I’ll use the feature.
That said, since Reason synths CAN do some forms of microtuning, what I’m guessing many folks here are talking about is things like just intonation, as you can already easily do “popular” microtunings such as 19 (63.15%), 24 (50%), and 31(36.85%) notes per octave on many Reason synths.

For 2 weeks i considered using bitwig for microtuning but just took the loss of using reasonsynths and use vst with mts esp instead. Far from perfect but everything for the reason sequencer.

[mimidancer]

I agree. Live is uninspiring. Live is great for DJs who want to perform loops. But for me, It is like trying to draw a picture in Excel.

[eiresurfer]

After reading 4 pages of the thread OP will go back to Live.

No, probably not!

Though I may go back to it for the Live instruments only (no Reason). I've converted a lot of my projects that I was working on to Reason, and the difference is stark in terms of inspiration and the desire to create. With Ableton, I was never bothered to open anything - with Reason I could spend hours on various tracks. Because I'm working with outboard gear, I often think it's because the outboard stuff mirrors what I see see in Reason, whereas in Ableton It's like constantly moving between two worlds. But of course, everyone's experience is different, and I can totally understand why other people much prefer Ableton.

Once thing I really wish Reason could do is send midi on different channels to VST plugins. My Elektron devices have Overbridge VST to work directly with the Digitone and Syntakt, but I'd love if Props would enable multi-channel to VST instruments. I can send MIDI directly (using the MIDI Out Device), but then I have some sync issues which I can fix by burning the audio to a Reason track - but I'd prefer to work solely with Overbridge.

And I'm not the only person with this request:
viewtopic.php?t=7532119

Short answer: no.

Long answer:
Inside Reason it's mostly a case of you can have any MIDI channel as long as it's channel 1.

The hardware interface at the top of the rack lets you direct any incoming channel to a particular device but that device will not know which channel - it just process all MIDI it receives. Likewise the MIDI output device lets you specify which output channel it should send out.
Any VSTs in the rack will see all MIDI as if it is channel 1, even multichannel VSTs like Kontakt.

[Jackjackdaw]

I agree about the midi (or lack thereof), it is such a limiting aspect for an environment that feels so unlimited.

[bxbrkrz]

After reading 4 pages of the thread OP will go back to Live.

No, probably not!

Though I may go back to it for the Live instruments only (no Reason). I've converted a lot of my projects that I was working on to Reason, and the difference is stark in terms of inspiration and the desire to create. With Ableton, I was never bothered to open anything - with Reason I could spend hours on various tracks. Because I'm working with outboard gear, I often think it's because the outboard stuff mirrors what I see see in Reason, whereas in Ableton It's like constantly moving between two worlds. But of course, everyone's experience is different, and I can totally understand why other people much prefer Ableton.

Once thing I really wish Reason could do is send midi on different channels to VST plugins. My Elektron devices have Overbridge VST to work directly with the Digitone and Syntakt, but I'd love if Props would enable multi-channel to VST instruments. I can send MIDI directly (using the MIDI Out Device), but then I have some sync issues which I can fix by burning the audio to a Reason track - but I'd prefer to work solely with Overbridge.

And I'm not the only person with this request:
viewtopic.php?t=7532119

Short answer: no.

Long answer:
Inside Reason it's mostly a case of you can have any MIDI channel as long as it's channel 1.

The hardware interface at the top of the rack lets you direct any incoming channel to a particular device but that device will not know which channel - it just process all MIDI it receives. Likewise the MIDI output device lets you specify which output channel it should send out.
Any VSTs in the rack will see all MIDI as if it is channel 1, even multichannel VSTs like Kontakt.

Patience young Padawan. We are still on page 2 as of now

As I shared earlier the need to get Ableton was not because it was a much more beautiful environment than Reason. 3 main reasons.

A better way to manage my ideas on the sequencer, and trying things back and forth quickly. AKA folders. I have been slowly converting my .reason to Live. It will take a long, long while.
The .reason format is a philosophical problem for me. Live is the same as far as internet verification, but I can directly open a folder and all the wav files involved within a project at any time, and no need to open Live for that purpose.
But recording my midi gear in Live compared to Reason is fantastic. Day and night. The good news is I don't have to choose, I can use both whenever.
From my perspective one is not better overall. Just a tool.

[Aosta]

I have been slowly converting my .reason to Live. It will take a long, long while.

I too have been doing this. The only real reason I bought Ableton was for the ability to record sessions into arrangement on the fly therefore bypassing most of the tedious chore of building a track in the sequencer.
I create a folder, bounce out the loops with no fx, save all patches and bounce out the midi files. Then I can either use the wavs (usually for beats) and load the rest into the RRP.
Is this similar to how you are working or are you actually rendering out stems?

[bxbrkrz]

I have been slowly converting my .reason to Live. It will take a long, long while.

I too have been doing this. The only real reason I bought Ableton was for the ability to record sessions into arrangement on the fly therefore bypassing most of the tedious chore of building a track in the sequencer.
I create a folder, bounce out the loops with no fx, save all patches and bounce out the midi files. Then I can either use the wavs (usually for beats) and load the rest into the RRP.
Is this similar to how you are working or are you actually rendering out stems?

So far I am creating stems out of Reason and the midi file only. If I want to bake whatever I hear I have to do a mixdown of the tracks one by one, so a wet and a dry version for reference.
It is because I really need to force myself to stay in Live, and to compare what I could do and find ways to recreate the basics from the wet mixdown and the imported midi. No RRP 'distraction' for now. I want to focus on Live.
Importing a midi file is fine, but I can only save a midi file clip by clip? No easy one click exporting a midi file type 1 of the whole song? Maybe I am wrong.
90% of my focus in Live was recording my hardware first. A folder for all the midi recorded from my drum machines, another folder for the audio, mute the midi folder, collapse it. Auto punch IN/OUT after 2 or 4 bars to make sure I have the best timing. Nice. Sorted.

Baby steps.

[Aosta]

I too have been doing this. The only real reason I bought Ableton was for the ability to record sessions into arrangement on the fly therefore bypassing most of the tedious chore of building a track in the sequencer.
I create a folder, bounce out the loops with no fx, save all patches and bounce out the midi files. Then I can either use the wavs (usually for beats) and load the rest into the RRP.
Is this similar to how you are working or are you actually rendering out stems?

So far I am creating stems out of Reason and the midi file only. If I want to bake whatever I hear I have to do a mixdown of the tracks one by one, so a wet and a dry version for reference.
It is because I really need to force myself to stay in Live, and to compare what I could do and find ways to recreate the basics from the wet mixdown and the imported midi. No RRP 'distraction' for now. I want to focus on Live.
Importing a midi file is fine, but I can only save a midi file clip by clip? No easy one click exporting a midi file type 1 of the whole song? Maybe I am wrong.
90% of my focus in Live was recording my hardware first. A folder for all the midi recorded from my drum machines, another folder for the audio, mute the midi folder, collapse it. Auto punch IN/OUT after 2 or 4 bars to make sure I have the best timing. Nice. Sorted.

Baby steps.

Right got ya, No hardware here or stems just lots of unfinished reason tracks stuck in the 4/8/16 bar loop phase with no will to play lego building in the sequencer just the will to jam along in session mode and record everything I did in the sequencer including automation on the fly, if Reason could do that I would have saved a ton of money

[PhillipOrdonez]

Omg I had never heard of daw project export and import that would be swell!!!!! Yes please!!!

Re: excel comments - I’m a big live user and I NEVER use the session view (where it looks like excel) I start and finish on arrangement view. No excel for me

Re: boring UI - i know exactly what you mean, but the newer devices have expanding views like Roar and it is pretty great! Also, I never ever use the default theme there, there are some very nice dark ones. I can’t even remember any orange. Wasn’t it yellow?

[Neofolk]

I went the other way. After the letdown of 13, I started exploring Ableton again and discovered how powerful it is. Yeah, it's a bit flat, but Reason is a bit garish, so there's that. The little things add up for me like Midi chase, folders, midi output from VST (like Harmony Bloom, etc), great effects, a guitar tuner - and the list goes on. I love Reason and will use it for sketching out ideas from time to time, but until they truly update it for 2025, I think it's relegated to RRP and the occasional sound design session. I honestly think it could be one of the best DAWs if it had a proper Project Manager.

[bxbrkrz]

So far I am creating stems out of Reason and the midi file only. If I want to bake whatever I hear I have to do a mixdown of the tracks one by one, so a wet and a dry version for reference.
It is because I really need to force myself to stay in Live, and to compare what I could do and find ways to recreate the basics from the wet mixdown and the imported midi. No RRP 'distraction' for now. I want to focus on Live.
Importing a midi file is fine, but I can only save a midi file clip by clip? No easy one click exporting a midi file type 1 of the whole song? Maybe I am wrong.
90% of my focus in Live was recording my hardware first. A folder for all the midi recorded from my drum machines, another folder for the audio, mute the midi folder, collapse it. Auto punch IN/OUT after 2 or 4 bars to make sure I have the best timing. Nice. Sorted.

Baby steps.

Right got ya, No hardware here or stems just lots of unfinished reason tracks stuck in the 4/8/16 bar loop phase with no will to play lego building in the sequencer just the will to jam along in session mode and record everything I did in the sequencer including automation on the fly, if Reason could do that I would have saved a ton of money

I am blaming this thread for forcing me to order a Move just now . I already got 12 Suite. Might as well go semi all in, but not Push 3 all in yet. Can't wait to play around with some of my unfinished stems from Reason with this setup.

[Aosta]

I am blaming this thread for forcing me to order a Move just now . I already got 12 Suite. Might as well go semi all in, but not Push 3 all in yet. Can't wait to play around with some of my unfinished stems from Reason with this setup.

That's a step too far for me, maybe in future if they expand it a bit more, it is only 4 tracks at the moment isn't it?
One thing I am realising is that though the stock instruments look like dog shit once playing with them they turn out to be actually extremely well put together, versatile and interesting to discover.

[Pepin]

I fall into this camp, will spend months in S1 and Nuendo and many times find myself moving the entire project over to Reason for better/quicker ideas. Reason needs to add that feature of exporting and importing projects from other DAW software that some are adding. I guarantee more people will either start projects in other DAW software and move it back to reason and export out of reason for the features Reason Studios don't have. I also hate Ableton, I find bitwig way more easy & fun to use.

If you’re talking about the AAF exchange format, I’m all for it. It’s the first media exchange format that fulfills the promise of simple reliable file exchange between DAWs.
So far my experience has only been exporting from Logic and importing into LUNA, but so far it’s been flawless. It even gets audio clips placed correctly, muted clips correctly, and basic automation. Which means you don’t have to consolidate or otherwise “prepare” the audio for export as I have always done in the past.
I would use it ALL the time if Reason supported it, it would be a godsend for me and my current workflow starting in Reason and mixing in LUNA.

dawproject support was just added to Cubase in the most recent release. It's already in Bitwig and StudioOne, with 3rd party converters for a few others. It contains a lot more information than AAF (midi, plugin settings, etc) so hopefully continues to gain adoption.

I'd like to see it in Reason at least for importing projects. Export is trickier due to the rack, but a simple project with standard routings could theoretically be exported as a dawproject with a bunch of RRP instances.

[bxbrkrz]

I am blaming this thread for forcing me to order a Move just now . I already got 12 Suite. Might as well go semi all in, but not Push 3 all in yet. Can't wait to play around with some of my unfinished stems from Reason with this setup.

That's a step too far for me, maybe in future if they expand it a bit more, it is only 4 tracks at the moment isn't it?
One thing I am realising is that though the stock instruments look like dog shit once playing with them they turn out to be actually extremely well put together, versatile and interesting to discover.

I agree with everything you say.
On a personal Note I believe the Move was created to Push people to get Live

It will never be more than 4 tracks, buying one hoping for this to happen one day is a mistake. It is not an MPC (Midi Production Center, the original meaning). The Move has been around for 3 months now? Getting one today should be based on a lot of shared negative and positive experiences.

One way to lesser the dog-shittery of virtual instruments is how you interact with them. If I can control the instruments in Live quickly and not dealing with a beautiful but massive Push on my desk, then the 4 tracks and the battery become great toppings.

A more uniform workflow, more integration, better and faster interaction between Move and Live is what I am hoping for