Reason Main Mixer Fader MIDI messages

[Toki]

I wasn't sure where to post this as the issue may stem from a number of places, but I have a feeling it may relate to the way Reason sends MIDI messages from the main mixer's faders or the value range on the fader maybe.

I'm using a LaunchKey 49 MK4 in Reason 13.1 (I'm currently discussing the issue with Novation too).

ISSUE: The faders on the LaunchKey control the mixer faders perfectly until I near extremes at which point the faders in Reason stick. I now either need to give the LaunchKey faders a good wiggling or manually move the fader on screen to release them.

I have also tried the following devices which all have different fader values to try to see if the issue relates to value type or value range etc. They all work perfectly.

Europe Engines 1-3 (-inf-18.1db)
Algoritm OP Atk (0-10ms)
Objekt Exciter Mix Level (0-100%)

I have reinstalled Reason. Tried changing fader type from Pickup to Jump and readded the LaunchKey in preferences (as per Novation's request)

Could this be related to the mix fader value range maybe? I'm not hot on the MIDI side so I don't know if changing the MIDI MIN/MAX value for the faders in the Components software or the resolution (7-14 bit) would do anything. I'm just thinking the issue is somehow related to the way the LaunchKey faders are receiving MIDI messages at specific values, causing it to spazz out, and do I need to adjust my LaunchKey settings to account for this.

Has anyone experienced anything similar either using LaunchKey or other controller? It's not the end of the world, I'm not typically riding faders to extremes but it is annoying if you want to do a fade for instance.

[selig]

I have motorized faders I use for rides, but I just tested my Novation SLmkIII faders controlling Reason Mixer Faders and it works just fine. Not sure what to say, I didn't have to jump through any hoops when setting up this controller IIRC...

[Toki]

OK. Thanks, Selig.

I'll have to take a closer look at the Remote Map file. I recall seeing something like a Record Main Mixer and a Reason Main Mixer which I assume are the same thing depending on which app you have open, but perhaps there's a conflict somewhere causing the glitch. I'll copy the current maps somewhere safe, start a clean slate and program the mixer from scratch and see what that does.

[selig]

OK. Thanks, Selig.

I'll have to take a closer look at the Remote Map file. I recall seeing something like a Record Main Mixer and a Reason Main Mixer which I assume are the same thing depending on which app you have open, but perhaps there's a conflict somewhere causing the glitch. I'll copy the current maps somewhere safe, start a clean slate and program the mixer from scratch and see what that does.

If you want me to check on anything on my end (for comparison), don’t hesitate to ask!

[Benedict]

I got one of the first Lunchkeys and the top octave didn't play in Reason. Initially, Novation told me I was a trippin' fool. After I sent proof, they checked and admitted the top keys in the 61 did not work in Reason (who cares if they work in Ablebum). I was asked to wait a minute for an update. Over a month later no update... Hence I ended up with a P6 (which I have never loved).

My point here is that perhaps there is a history here of a manufacturer who puts the claim on their website but doesn't check to see it it really works in the wild.
I hope you get it sorted soon.

[Toki]

OK. Thanks, Selig.

I'll have to take a closer look at the Remote Map file. I recall seeing something like a Record Main Mixer and a Reason Main Mixer which I assume are the same thing depending on which app you have open, but perhaps there's a conflict somewhere causing the glitch. I'll copy the current maps somewhere safe, start a clean slate and program the mixer from scratch and see what that does.

If you want me to check on anything on my end (for comparison), don’t hesitate to ask!

Thank you, Selig. I appreciate that. I didn't have any success with mapping only the mixer on the Remote Map file, nor could I make much sense of the data in MIDI Monitor. However, I just tried adding a generic keyboard in preferences and using remote override to assign a fader to the mixer and bam! It works. I don't receive any useful data on the LaunchKey LCD regarding the fader position in db, but it works. This leads me to believe there is an issue with the MK4 Lua codec perhaps.

In another test, I switched to the MK3 Map. Now, usually the encoders work perfectly on the mixer faders for the MK4 map. No sticking. However, on the MK3 map they do stick. We know it's not the map itself because I've removed every possible conflict from the file, so it must be the codec.

I got one of the first Lunchkeys and the top octave didn't play in Reason. Initially, Novation told me I was a trippin' fool. After I sent proof, they checked and admitted the top keys in the 61 did not work in Reason (who cares if they work in Ablebum). I was asked to wait a minute for an update. Over a month later no update... Hence I ended up with a P6 (which I have never loved).

My point here is that perhaps there is a history here of a manufacturer who puts the claim on their website but doesn't check to see it it really works in the wild.
I hope you get it sorted soon.

Ha, I encountered something similar when I first switched on the MK4. Half the keys just didn't work in the lower range. Then I bumped up an octave and it was all good. Later I saw a note in the manual about how some MIDI devices simply don't trigger below a certain octave and I've not had an issue since. At least, the answer to Bass, how low can you go? is: Low enough!

I'll follow up my email to Novation with the findings and maybe I'll just have to wait a minute for an update...otherwise I'm very happy with this beasty. It's a lovely bit of kit.

Update: Out of curiosity I installed Reason 12.2 and installed the Lua Codec and Remote Map for the MK4 and the faders work perfectly! Well almost, they run from -143,31db to 7,98db, which isn't the full range but it's damn close and a lot better than it sticking. I'd settle for that!

So now the question is, is this an R13 problem and do I submit a bug report?

[Benedict]

How are the keys themselves? I am interested in a new 61 Key but can't try anything locally. The few shops stock nothing - and don't talk to you if you aren't a guitarist. That leaves driving for 2 hours on a punt or punting online. And your answer will be a bit irrelevant anyways seeing the 49 is a different set of keys. Mostly I care about noise. The P6 is horridly noisy. Quite nice to play but NAF, and not a good kind of F (that is an odd expression).

[Toki]

How are the keys themselves? I am interested in a new 61 Key but can't try anything locally. The few shops stock nothing - and don't talk to you if you aren't a guitarist. That leaves driving for 2 hours on a punt or punting online. And your answer will be a bit irrelevant anyways seeing the 49 is a different set of keys. Mostly I care about noise. The P6 is horridly noisy. Quite nice to play but NAF, and not a good kind of F (that is an odd expression).

Personally, I quite like the keys. They are not clackety keys be any means. I’d actually say they are rather quiet. There’s a nice bit of resistance on the press down, it doesn’t feel as natural as a weighted key obviously but it does a good job. Release has a bit of spring back to it but honestly, I hadn’t thought about that too much until you asked because other than the fader issue, I’ve just really enjoyed using this keyboard. If noise is your main concern, I don’t think the 49 would do you wrong. The same goes for the encoders which feel great, the pads aren’t bad too. Just a shame they aren’t a tad bigger.

Other than that I’m sure it’s all geared towards Ableton in terms of features. Things like scrubbing and moving locators don’t seem controllable in Reason. I’m not really sure the Mixer/Daw/Plugin modes really do much but it’s very simple to program the custom modes and they update from the Components software in a flash. I’m not one to program maps much for each device, the mixer is where I like controls at my finger tips. However, there’s enough premapped that I’m often surprisingly pleased that I can record some automation for a chosen knob in a synth by intuitively tweaking an encoder.

Someone also mentioned that you can play pads but not record them. That isn’t true for me. Works like a charm.

[Benedict]

[Southgate]

FWIW...

I'm also using the LaunchKey 49 MK3 and Reason 13.1.

I had previously used the MK2 keyboard until the fader pots started to malfunction along with the pitch wheel. I was very happy with the controller to use with Reason....

When the MK2 decided it had had it's best years (6) I thought I'd simply upgrade to the MK3 and all would be well. Not so.

The fader's coding does not control Reason as it once did and is really geared at Ableton Live. After being frustrated with the lack of control (primarily with attempting to control the Main Mixer with the fader pots and rotary knobs) I decided to take your route and speak with both Novation and Reason Studios. After many emails to both companies (which responded) neither would take responsibility and the enquiry just faded to nothing I simply assumed that the problem wasn't gonna be resolved by either.

This pushed me for the first time onto using Live.

Not to be too despondant but I'm afraid you, I and all other Novation LaunchKey users that wish to use it with Reason will be stuck with this situation. (Unless either company has addressed it or will in the future).

[Toki]

FWIW...

I'm also using the LaunchKey 49 MK3 and Reason 13.1.

I had previously used the MK2 keyboard until the fader pots started to malfunction along with the pitch wheel. I was very happy with the controller to use with Reason....

When the MK2 decided it had had it's best years (6) I thought I'd simply upgrade to the MK3 and all would be well. Not so.

The fader's coding does not control Reason as it once did and is really geared at Ableton Live. After being frustrated with the lack of control (primarily with attempting to control the Main Mixer with the fader pots and rotary knobs) I decided to take your route and speak with both Novation and Reason Studios. After many emails to both companies (which responded) neither would take responsibility and the enquiry just faded to nothing I simply assumed that the problem wasn't gonna be resolved by either.

This pushed me for the first time onto using Live.

Not to be too despondant but I'm afraid you, I and all other Novation LaunchKey users that wish to use it with Reason will be stuck with this situation. (Unless either company has addressed it or will in the future).

Noted. This is where I’m at now. I was going to reach out to RS but Novation said they are already talking to them. I sent a load of info over regarding various tests I’ve done so I guess we’ll wait and see.

It’s frustrating that the faders work almost perfectly in R12 but not R13 but I’m not downgrading just for that. I’ve never found a MIDI controller that works flawlessly and for the most part, the LaunchKey is really nice to use. I’ll deal with it if I have to.

If anything useful comes back from ReasonStudios or Novation, I’ll be sure to update here but I imagine this is a developer problem and not something a user can tweak or hack.

[tillamookhead]

Reason 13.1 ( same problem with Reason 12)
Launchkey 49 MK3
Launchpad Pro Mk3

I have been working with Novation on this fader problem for a few weeks. It's a slow process, 2 or 3 days between emails ( time zone difference) which consist mostly of them nailing down my exact setup and asking for a video and screenshots. Yesterday (Jan 9 ) I received this message:

"We are currently in contact with Reason Studios regarding the behavior you're seeing, and we will reach back out to you directly when there is an update to this matter."

I have been pleased with their apparent attention to the problem.

My workaround is to use the Launchpad MK3 for the faders (using "Midi Control Keyboard" in setup) , it works perfectly.

As a side note: I wish the channel select/record arm buttons worked. If I'm missing something and it's possible to get them to work, I'd appreciate some advice.