Are you upgrading to Reason 13?

This forum is for discussing Reason. Questions, answers, ideas, and opinions... all apply.

Are you upgrading to R13?

Yes
74
27%
No
143
52%
Unsure
60
22%
 
Total votes: 277
User avatar
MannequinRaces
Posts: 1545
Joined: 18 Jan 2015

Post 08 Jul 2024

I’ll upgrade when it goes on sale for $99. I’m in no rush to do so. Still enjoying 12, for the most part!

User avatar
Jagwah
Posts: 2574
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

Post 09 Jul 2024

It's so nice to have a fresh looking sequencer, the menu that let's you open and close everything is really nice and smooth when you get used to using it. Their changes always make sense and become a pleasure to use even if they don't seem to initially.

Fusion
Posts: 137
Joined: 24 Mar 2017
Location: UK

Post 09 Jul 2024

The update looks great and nice to see some focus on improving the DAW, but cannot spend £200 on it right now and do not like subscriptions

User avatar
Karim
Competition Winner
Posts: 965
Joined: 16 Jan 2015
Location: Italy

Post 09 Jul 2024

HI,
I answered the survey with "not sure" both because I'm currently
financially constrained and because my old 2016 Mac
is rather sluggish and struggles to run even Reason 12.
I'd like to change computer and simultaneously do an update
on a clean machine (even on a PC if necessary):
if in the meantime Reason goes on sale (I usually updated at launch).
This year it will have to be like this :|
Neo wrote:
18 Jun 2024
Are you upgrading to Reason 13?
Feel free to share your Reasons for and against upgrading.
-
Shout out to the admins/mods (edit, add, move as you will).
Hopefully we can mindfully share without having the thread locked.
-
https://www.reasonstudios.com/get-reason
https://www.youtube.com/@ReasonStudios

Karim Le Mec : Dj/Producer/Label Owner ( :reason: 11.3 + R12.x + IMac 2016 21")
FOLLOW Karim Le Mec
https://www.youtube.com/user/lemecdj
https://karimlemec.weebly.com/
https://soundcloud.com/karimlemec
https://t.me/reasonstudiosworld

User avatar
syncanonymous
Posts: 482
Joined: 16 Mar 2015
Location: UK and France

Post 10 Jul 2024

I voted "no"
RSN 10.4d4_9878_RME UFX+_Intel Core i7-8700K 3.7 GHz__Corsair Vengeance 64GB DDR4-3000
ASRock Fatal1ty Z370__Palit GeForce GTX 1050 Ti KalmX__Samsung 960 PRO/ M.2-2280 NVME SSD
:reason: :re: :recycle: :PUF_figure: :rebirth: :refill:

User avatar
yamguitar
Posts: 32
Joined: 29 Aug 2015

Post 13 Jul 2024

dakta wrote:
19 Jun 2024
My biggest bugbear so far as that magnifying glass on the tracker
Oh, man, me too. I actually found your comment as I looked for a way to disable it. It hasn't made me constantly zoom in, but it does require a silly amount of accuracy now to click on the timeline to put loop markers in, or even to jump back in forth in a project. It's driving me mad. I don't need EVERY function to be mouse-based, and there are already shortcuts for zooming in. It's a useless addition.

I also think it's extremely bad form to change the basic function of long-standing hotkeys. Add new ones if you like, but don't make me fight my ingrained Reason muscle memory... that's just a recipe for alienating and frustrating longtime users. It makes Reason feel like something other than the old pal that it is.

User avatar
dakta
Posts: 191
Joined: 30 Aug 2021

Post 14 Jul 2024

Totally agree

I have to say, and it's killing me this but a lot of the negativity pre-release has turned out to be completely justified

It's not that they haven't added the things I want, they've found ways to ruin what I had. Productivity wise R13 offers less than 12 (in my opinion), It's such a fiddly awkward thing now, just looking through patches is horrible - it's disorganised, it's messy, the browser does me no favours at all and is just a confusing display of buttons tags, and what nots.

The magnifying glass makes navigating with the transporter - something done frequently an absolute pain in the backside needing conscious effort for accuracy to avoid an unwanted zoom - what the hell? Don't make something that's such a basic and common operation harder and more clumsy for God sake...

Also I don't like the split window. What's wrong with switching between? Having all three open at once is no good, I have a big screen but to use the advantage of all 3 is pointless because even with a big screen using all 3 they become unusable. So why not switch between? That was absolutely fine. Plus, if you do grin and bear it and just drag them out of the way, when you want them back I'm always clicking the wrong one and getting confused and frustrated as to how I can simply get to where I want to be.

It's an absolute crapfest. And I consider myself a die hard fan.



It's like they've geared this to the kids. Why have they done this to their fanbase, they deserve to fail if this is their concept of ok.

I appreciate some people might like it, but I do wonder what sort of business intelligence meeting took place where they discussed the topic 'well Reason doesn't have a fantastic marketshare, so let's split the existing loyal fanbase into two (those who want a new browser and UI changes and those that don't) and strip one side of their productivity'. That should sort it...ho ho ho

Honestly. If you're going to do something that dramatic then at least make it an option. This is near Microsoft arrogance.


For the first ever time I've submitted feedback to Reason studios (and I generally never submit complaints anyway even outside of Reason) but you shouldn't ruin things for people like this.

Will move back to R12, though i've tried since R13 was released as I wanted to give it a fair chance to settle, it isn't so I'm going to lose some work.

If you aren't a subscriber, avoid the update. There's nothing you need that justifies the workflow destruction.

How do they put this right? Add polytone and the new devices to R12's latest build and consider it done. I DID IT FOR YOU.

If I seem dramatic it's partly because I'm neurodiverse and watching the one thing I could zone out with go down the drain - I do feel strongly.

Josdams
Posts: 64
Joined: 18 Mar 2017

Post 15 Jul 2024

dakta wrote:
14 Jul 2024
Totally agree

I have to say, and it's killing me this but a lot of the negativity pre-release has turned out to be completely justified

It's not that they haven't added the things I want, they've found ways to ruin what I had. Productivity wise R13 offers less than 12 (in my opinion), It's such a fiddly awkward thing now, just looking through patches is horrible - it's disorganised, it's messy, the browser does me no favours at all and is just a confusing display of buttons tags, and what nots.

The magnifying glass makes navigating with the transporter - something done frequently an absolute pain in the backside needing conscious effort for accuracy to avoid an unwanted zoom - what the hell? Don't make something that's such a basic and common operation harder and more clumsy for God sake...

Also I don't like the split window. What's wrong with switching between? Having all three open at once is no good, I have a big screen but to use the advantage of all 3 is pointless because even with a big screen using all 3 they become unusable. So why not switch between? That was absolutely fine. Plus, if you do grin and bear it and just drag them out of the way, when you want them back I'm always clicking the wrong one and getting confused and frustrated as to how I can simply get to where I want to be.

It's an absolute crapfest. And I consider myself a die hard fan.



It's like they've geared this to the kids. Why have they done this to their fanbase, they deserve to fail if this is their concept of ok.

I appreciate some people might like it, but I do wonder what sort of business intelligence meeting took place where they discussed the topic 'well Reason doesn't have a fantastic marketshare, so let's split the existing loyal fanbase into two (those who want a new browser and UI changes and those that don't) and strip one side of their productivity'. That should sort it...ho ho ho

Honestly. If you're going to do something that dramatic then at least make it an option. This is near Microsoft arrogance.


For the first ever time I've submitted feedback to Reason studios (and I generally never submit complaints anyway even outside of Reason) but you shouldn't ruin things for people like this.

Will move back to R12, though i've tried since R13 was released as I wanted to give it a fair chance to settle, it isn't so I'm going to lose some work.

If you aren't a subscriber, avoid the update. There's nothing you need that justifies the workflow destruction.

How do they put this right? Add polytone and the new devices to R12's latest build and consider it done. I DID IT FOR YOU.

If I seem dramatic it's partly because I'm neurodiverse and watching the one thing I could zone out with go down the drain - I do feel strongly.
:cry: what an absolute piece of trash. What the hell have they done to reason? I fell sorry for you mate and the money you waisted. I'm a actually slowly getting to know Ableton and it is pretty good. You should try it too.

avasopht
Competition Winner
Posts: 4024
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

Post 15 Jul 2024

This is just the first version of the new browser.

Maybe they're working on a UI that allows users to dock it wherever they want.



But it def should have been an option!

User avatar
joeyluck
Moderator
Posts: 11177
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

Post 15 Jul 2024

There are certainly some trade-offs...

I would really like if the browser could be made smaller and/or have an option to be dockable, because for me, it is very often in the way on my laptop screen. But aside from the way it is presented, it is much better than the previous browser for finding content.

I miss being able to search and browse devices and content together, but I also really like the Device palette and Browser being separate and not having to toggle between and lose the placement in either of them.

In R13 you can choose to search and browse across all device categories. Also, your search term is not lost when toggling between categories like it is in R12.

In the Sequencer split view, you can still have the Edit area take up the full space of the Sequencer and Reason remembers this adjustment for every time you open and close the Edit view. I also like having the tools readily available. One trade-off is that the track selection is not available in the Edit area, so you have to go back to the arrangement view to do that. But I still think this is an improvement to workflow and have made suggestions about how to fix that.

There are a few projects I'm still completing in R12 and when going between it and R13, there are things I miss in each version. But I would certainly not plan to stay on R12 because I much prefer the improvements of R13 and I think these other things can be improved. What I like about R12's browser—it's not in the way. What I don't like about R12's browser—it's clunky in comparison. I've waited so long to be able to browse across all device categories and also not have the browser forget my search term when toggling categories. That alone, not even mentioning tags, is a big improvement.

ThuslaDoom
Posts: 10
Joined: 07 Jul 2022

Post 15 Jul 2024

Looking at what I've gotten and am getting in Live 12 plus comparing against the newest FL 24, I can't understand why anyone would pay 200 dollars for what's coming in reason 13. Just a total trash upgrade. They need to update their devices (mimic, I'm looking at you). Note chasing in the sequencer. Folders. Allow use of the full program when used as.a plugin (like in Maschine), or at least allow VSTs to be hosted in the rack plugin. This is just sad. A few utility devices, a delay and a synth. Wow. Who here currently making music, really needs another poly synth? I'm sure it sounds good, but dont tell me it's massively better than any number of synths you already own. The browser? Come on. Look at what's in live's new browser, especially what's coming in 12.1. I dont mind a floating window, but at least make it have some special something. I don't know, I'd pay maybe 50 dollars for this, but realistically this is another of those updates I'm going to skip entirely.

User avatar
Theo.M
Posts: 1229
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

Post 15 Jul 2024

dakta wrote:
14 Jul 2024
Totally agree

I have to say, and it's killing me this but a lot of the negativity pre-release has turned out to be completely justified

It's not that they haven't added the things I want, they've found ways to ruin what I had. Productivity wise R13 offers less than 12 (in my opinion), It's such a fiddly awkward thing now, just looking through patches is horrible - it's disorganised, it's messy, the browser does me no favours at all and is just a confusing display of buttons tags, and what nots.

The magnifying glass makes navigating with the transporter - something done frequently an absolute pain in the backside needing conscious effort for accuracy to avoid an unwanted zoom - what the hell? Don't make something that's such a basic and common operation harder and more clumsy for God sake...

Also I don't like the split window. What's wrong with switching between? Having all three open at once is no good, I have a big screen but to use the advantage of all 3 is pointless because even with a big screen using all 3 they become unusable. So why not switch between? That was absolutely fine. Plus, if you do grin and bear it and just drag them out of the way, when you want them back I'm always clicking the wrong one and getting confused and frustrated as to how I can simply get to where I want to be.

It's an absolute crapfest. And I consider myself a die hard fan.



It's like they've geared this to the kids. Why have they done this to their fanbase, they deserve to fail if this is their concept of ok.

I appreciate some people might like it, but I do wonder what sort of business intelligence meeting took place where they discussed the topic 'well Reason doesn't have a fantastic marketshare, so let's split the existing loyal fanbase into two (those who want a new browser and UI changes and those that don't) and strip one side of their productivity'. That should sort it...ho ho ho

Honestly. If you're going to do something that dramatic then at least make it an option. This is near Microsoft arrogance.


For the first ever time I've submitted feedback to Reason studios (and I generally never submit complaints anyway even outside of Reason) but you shouldn't ruin things for people like this.

Will move back to R12, though i've tried since R13 was released as I wanted to give it a fair chance to settle, it isn't so I'm going to lose some work.

If you aren't a subscriber, avoid the update. There's nothing you need that justifies the workflow destruction.

How do they put this right? Add polytone and the new devices to R12's latest build and consider it done. I DID IT FOR YOU.

If I seem dramatic it's partly because I'm neurodiverse and watching the one thing I could zone out with go down the drain - I do feel strongly.
Wow, what a post. It's satisfying to know I am not alone, however it's also frustrating that they spent so much time on such things rather than actually adding needed things like ARA 2 support and the like. I love the line "if you are going to do something that dramatic then at least make it an option".
Brilliiant.

I haven't even opened Reason in 2 days, as I know if I say I will stick to version 12, then eventually that won't work on Apple silicon/future OS so it's just too risky. On windows I'd be happy to use 12 for the foreseeable future.

I also agree with your way to fix it, but I would also add, on top of adding polytone and the devices to R12, to fix VST3 in R12.
The fact that R13 was even *released* with VST3 still broken on Windows, after all the bug reports made about it in R12, really speaks volumes.

I reckon that American guy on the Reason YouTube channel had a lot to do with it (just a guess, I am sorry if I am wrong), as he's over the moon with the browser and other updates - I do wonder how much input he had in ruining our beloved Reason.

What they should have done was add more actual NEEDED features that made it a more compelling DAW and draw users like me away from other DAWs and only using Reason as a plugin.

Now let's say, hypothetically, we ALL loved the new browser and what we wanted more than anything was more devices.
I see the fact that Propellerhead consider THAT to be a $200 upgrade and what is needed in a major new release to be the most troubling thing of all. It's almost as if they have hit a stalemate and aren't entirely sure *how* to continue to make Reason more competitive.,

After using Pro Tools for 10 hours today, along with Melodyne Studio and Battalion Drum Machine (2 week demo, too expensive for me right now but it's the next on the list), and all the incredible plugins like D16 Lush 2, which sounds so good it actually made me physically outwardly emotional when I was playing it, I realised just how behind Reason is. I had this glorious delay compensation, where absolutely every delay is displayed on a per channel basis, not just the master, and the entire project stays not only audibly in sync, even with sidechains, but visually perfect so editing is a breeze. Then I had to use the wonderful audio clip gain to level out an extensively dynamic clip (I wanted to do it more naturally than a compressor), and I remembered why I loved editing audio in it so much, even simple things like the clip gain.
Then when I had a choice of doing midi in line right there on the track, or in a docked screen below like Reason, or in a separate full screen (my preferred method), it made me happier again.

Oh, and the mixer, and HEAT! So natural to use (I have to be honest, Reason's mixer is really nice too, the SSL layout, but I like more visual information with my metering and insert slots right there on the mixer).

Oh, SCREENSETS. Just a press of a button, and your sizes and positions and layout is saved for instant recall. I set up 7 of them today.
Then groups. Then VCAs. And so much more, I could write a novel right now.
Then that beautiful workspace media browser (the one and only thing in Pro tools that can't be docked, but with a screen set it's the same thing and still only one button press, as I have the top half of laptop panel dedicated to sequencer and bottom half perfectly proportioned with workspace browser so I can easily drag and drop files anywhere on the timeline from the browser), WITH volume adjustable auto project tempo preview for wav, aif AND rex files, well, for someone who uses drum loops, that's a Godsend. On the Mac in the studio room with multiple 27" panels, it's even easier again and so much more satisfying, but I really enjoy using the windows laptop when I am in bed.

I realised, truly, that in its current state, I was being idealistic and foolish to think I could ever see Reason as more than a plugin to use in Pro Tools or Nuendo. However, because of the new browser, the plugin mode has been ruined for me too, because in plugin mode, only Reason devices can be used (incl RE), which all work in conjunction with the browser. There's no other browser available and they removed the gorgeous docked browser on the left. I can't risk it and keep using it because for all I know, V12 won't even work in the very next Mac OS release, and V12 has reached the end of its update cycle.

Reason would need SO much for me to switch to it as my one and only DAW, that at my age I don't think it will happen in this lifetime before I have to quit music.
When I really spent time today, I realised the speed of my workflow being so much faster in PT (and Nuendo but I use that for a couple certain tasks, long story for another time, but it's a great general DAW in any case), that I would be able to get a lot more done than I have been in Reason in the past 4 months.
The fact that they did what they call a major update and did not address a single thing that I personally think is flat out needed to keep the app improving and moving forward, but *ruined* something that I already loved just the way it was, well, that was the nail in the coffin.

Do you know what I truly expected of the browser in R13? Just to add tempo sync audio preview LOL and maybe tagging but leave otherwise the exact perfect resizable but docked browser from R12.
I mean the point I made about synth patch browsing and controls being obscured, you can't even see what's happening when a patch is loaded anymore let alone do a quick edit without leaving the browser, should be something that *anyone* who uses the native reason synths can understand.

Edit, I just launched R13.01 as a plugin in PT 2024.6, I wanted to give it a quick go, and it's as I feared. I have zero chance of being able to enjoy working with it.

How can a major full version update have been released without a single major feature, and retaining a critical bug from an earlier release?
I honestly don't think I have ever seen any other dev release a 200 dollar upgrade with just a new browser and a couple devices. What's more is, that delay was just utterly wasted coding time - I'll go into that another time, maybe, but that's a perfect example to me, same with the "new" stereo tool to add to already existing mastering stereo tool. Again this confirms to me, well in my thoughts at least, that they just didn't know what to do or maybe even couldn't do things that were needed. Maybe they have peaked now with the main DAW itself? Look over the release history and see what should have been done in the last decade - if you think about it sincerely and not as just a lover of the app, you will see that I am right. And I myself, having such a huge soft spot for Reason, had the wool over my own eyes too. First thing I did when coming back to music after all those years I was ill, was get into a Reason sub. First thing, first DAW I opened after coming back. HUGE soft spot.
Now that there is a plugin that is a real alternative for drum synthesis AND sampling AND sequencing (Battalion), in VST3 and AAX and AU and Apple native M, it makes the thought of losing Reason entirely from my workflow a lot more bearable, as I relied on it for drum sequencing.

I think the only thing that I will really miss at this point is the generators, including RE's like Euclidian Rhythms, though thankfully I did pick up Hornet Hatefish which is something in that vein. But there's nothing else really that can do a quick EDM bassline, using the sound of one's choice, and the key of one's choice, as quickly as Reason's bass player. I will admit that. I'll have to go back to the old less lazy ways LOL and start writing them myself again. I suppose I did that for 25 years, so I don't have any excuse other than, yes, lazy.

I will check at R14 for sure, or R13.5 and see if the fixes I need have been done so I can happily use the rack as an aax and vst plugin, and then I'll re-sub for sure if that happens. Absolutely. For now, it's time to stop wishing and being disappointed and just enjoy the other DAWs. I can't help being in this forum though cause you are all such lovely people as I have said the other day. My favourite group of people of any audio forum I have ever been a part of:)
Mac Studio M2 Ultra/64Gb/Apollo T-Bolt 3/OS 14.5.0/PT 2024/Nuendo 13
MSI GT77/13980HX/RTX 4090m/64GB/Arturia Minifuse 2/Win 11 Pro/S1 V6/Bitwig 5/Low DPC latency tuned

PhillipOrdonez
Posts: 3945
Joined: 20 Oct 2017
Location: Norway

Post 15 Jul 2024

Stopped reading that wall of text the moment you lied about the plugin not having anything but the floating browser. Why the need to lie about basic shit like that?

"There is no other browser available and they removed the docked browser on the left"

If you want to use nothing but devices and not patches, you're welcome to use the device browser. Don't say there's no way to load Res on the RRP without using the new floating browser. 🙄

User avatar
miyaru
Posts: 641
Joined: 28 Oct 2019
Location: Zaanstad, The Netherlands

Post 15 Jul 2024

The main reason not to upgrade is the fact I'm going to switch (99% sure) to the Akai Professional Force system. I do not want spent any money on a new music PC anymore. My old i7-7700 is not able to run Win11, and I'm going to build a PC from my two current PC's, and it will not be a music PC anymore, but a jack of all trades, running a six core i5. The i5 is my office machine, which will get the housing (19" server housing from my music PC).

The old i7 goes in a medium tower housing, and will proberly become an Ubuntu machine for fun.

Today I sold my 5 string Status Graphite Energy Bass to pay for the Akai Force. I'm also going to sell my Ableton Push 2 to buy some stuff for the Akai. I want an UDG case fore it, and then some cable stuff.

If I get the i5 running Win11 to properly run music software, I will use REason 12 and Ableton LIve 10 Suite, otherwise goodby to music making on PC.

As things are now looking good for buying the Akai Force, I will get me one, and being able to go everywhere with this self contained composition machine makes me happy.

I'm making less and less music these days, partly due to the fact I'm getting deaf (-46dB @ 4KHz!!!!!!), and partly due to circumstances in my life.

So the cheapest way to have another chalange and maybe a fresh horizon.

But 'till october 2025 I can use my current old music PC, and sample my favo sounds from Reason stuff into the Akai.

We will see what the future will bring!!!!!
Greetings from Miyaru.
Prodaw i7-7700, 16Gb Ram, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd gen, ESI M4U eX, Reason12, Live Suit 10, Push2, Presonus Eris E8 and Monitor Station V2, Lexicon MPX1,
Korg N1, Yamaha RM1x :thumbup:

PhillipOrdonez
Posts: 3945
Joined: 20 Oct 2017
Location: Norway

Post 15 Jul 2024

miyaru wrote:
15 Jul 2024
The main reason not to upgrade is the fact I'm going to switch (99% sure) to the Akai Professional Force system. I do not want spent any money on a new music PC anymore. My old i7-7700 is not able to run Win11, and I'm going to build a PC from my two current PC's, and it will not be a music PC anymore, but a jack of all trades, running a six core i5. The i5 is my office machine, which will get the housing (19" server housing from my music PC).

The old i7 goes in a medium tower housing, and will proberly become an Ubuntu machine for fun.

Today I sold my 5 string Status Graphite Energy Bass to pay for the Akai Force. I'm also going to sell my Ableton Push 2 to buy some stuff for the Akai. I want an UDG case fore it, and then some cable stuff.

If I get the i5 running Win11 to properly run music software, I will use REason 12 and Ableton LIve 10 Suite, otherwise goodby to music making on PC.

As things are now looking good for buying the Akai Force, I will get me one, and being able to go everywhere with this self contained composition machine makes me happy.

I'm making less and less music these days, partly due to the fact I'm getting deaf (-46dB @ 4KHz!!!!!!), and partly due to circumstances in my life.

So the cheapest way to have another chalange and maybe a fresh horizon.

But 'till october 2025 I can use my current old music PC, and sample my favo sounds from Reason stuff into the Akai.

We will see what the future will bring!!!!!
Nice! I hope you get to use the computer to run any DAW so you can finish your songs. Hardware is nice to have and to play with, but not as straightforward to finish stuff in, especially not with a single box. The Akai system can get you far though if you master it. Good luck on your learning curve. Enlightenspeed knows the system well and can help you get started if you ask him for advice. I'm on the MPC live 2 and as far as I understand it their OS is quite similar but not exactly the same, though i understand the force has some advantages over the MPC in some areas, the MPC had the edge over other areas iirc. That's the thing with hardware, there's not a perfect box that can do it all but you have to trade a thing for another and have to find the workflow that clicks with your brain.

👍
Last edited by PhillipOrdonez on 15 Jul 2024, edited 1 time in total.

cincyjack
Posts: 18
Joined: 18 Sep 2020

Post 15 Jul 2024

No.
First time since V1.
Reason 12.2.5
I7, Windows 10, 16 GB RAM
Radeon HD 5600

User avatar
Pepin
Posts: 603
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

Post 15 Jul 2024

Theo.M wrote:
15 Jul 2024
I reckon that American guy on the Reason YouTube channel had a lot to do with it (just a guess, I am sorry if I am wrong), as he's over the moon with the browser and other updates - I do wonder how much input he had in ruining our beloved Reason.
I seriously doubt Ryan is significantly dictating the direction of the product. His job is to get users excited about these changes. Think Dom Sigalas videos on the Steinberg channel (since you've mentioned Nuendo).

IMO tags were clearly necessary for Reason+ packs to be usable beyond a certain volume of patches. That explains why the browser was prioritized for this release and why user tags weren't initially added (Reason+ usability was the main motivation). And for whatever reason along the way, RS decided that a floating browser was the best approach for surfacing those tags. I can't say I agree, but I'm sure it was a collaborative decision.
PhillipOrdonez wrote:
15 Jul 2024
Stopped reading that wall of text the moment you lied about the plugin not having anything but the floating browser. Why the need to lie about basic shit like that?

"There is no other browser available and they removed the docked browser on the left"

If you want to use nothing but devices and not patches, you're welcome to use the device browser. Don't say there's no way to load Res on the RRP without using the new floating browser. 🙄
Theo's posts are admittedly long, rambling, and emotionally charged. But in context he was contrasting patch browsing in REs vs VSTs. That is, VSTs (with their own integrated browsers) are not supported in the rack plugin, so you have no choice but to use devices that load patches via the new R13 browser.

Responding to a sincerely passionate critique with a terse accusation of lying is just pointless needling imo.

PhillipOrdonez
Posts: 3945
Joined: 20 Oct 2017
Location: Norway

Post 15 Jul 2024

Pepin wrote:
15 Jul 2024
Theo.M wrote:
15 Jul 2024
I reckon that American guy on the Reason YouTube channel had a lot to do with it (just a guess, I am sorry if I am wrong), as he's over the moon with the browser and other updates - I do wonder how much input he had in ruining our beloved Reason.
I seriously doubt Ryan is significantly dictating the direction of the product. His job is to get users excited about these changes. Think Dom Sigalas videos on the Steinberg channel (since you've mentioned Nuendo).

IMO tags were clearly necessary for Reason+ packs to be usable beyond a certain volume of patches. That explains why the browser was prioritized for this release and why user tags weren't initially added (Reason+ usability was the main motivation). And for whatever reason along the way, RS decided that a floating browser was the best approach for surfacing those tags. I can't say I agree, but I'm sure it was a collaborative decision.
PhillipOrdonez wrote:
15 Jul 2024
Stopped reading that wall of text the moment you lied about the plugin not having anything but the floating browser. Why the need to lie about basic shit like that?

"There is no other browser available and they removed the docked browser on the left"

If you want to use nothing but devices and not patches, you're welcome to use the device browser. Don't say there's no way to load Res on the RRP without using the new floating browser. 🙄
Theo's posts are admittedly long, rambling, and emotionally charged. But in context he was contrasting patch browsing in REs vs VSTs. That is, VSTs (with their own integrated browsers) are not supported in the rack plugin, so you have no choice but to use devices that load patches via the new R13 browser.

Responding to a sincerely passionate critique with a terse accusation of lying is just pointless needling imo.
Whether intentional or not, his literal words are incorrect. You can lie without knowing you are lying if your words are lies even though the fact they are lies is unbecknownst to you. I quote:

"I realised, truly, that in its current state, I was being idealistic and foolish to think I could ever see Reason as more than a plugin to use in Pro Tools or Nuendo. However, because of the new browser, the plugin mode has been ruined for me too, because in plugin mode, only Reason devices can be used (incl RE), which all work in conjunction with the browser. There's no other browser available and they removed the gorgeous docked browser on the left. I can't risk it and keep using it because for all I know, V12 won't even work in the very next Mac OS release, and V12 has reached the end of its update cycle."

So, he said: "because in plugin mode, only Reason devices can be used" and then said "which all work in conjunction with the browser." which is not really true as you can load any Re and reason device from the device browser. Then he says "There's no other browser available " which is also not true. The device browser is right there, he and we all can load any device from there. HE is not talking about patches "only Reason devices can be used (incl RE), which all work in conjunction with the browser" DEVICES. He makes it sound like you have no options but the scawy, evil, new browser to load any device in RRP, which makes it UNUSABLE for anyone! UNUSABLE!!!!!!!!!!

:?:

If I was a kid just learning about music programs I might want to use and stumbled upon these parts of the internet I would write off this horrible program based on a bucnh of misunderstandings and, yes, lies, all over the internet.

User avatar
Pepin
Posts: 603
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

Post 15 Jul 2024

PhillipOrdonez wrote:
15 Jul 2024
Pepin wrote:
15 Jul 2024


I seriously doubt Ryan is significantly dictating the direction of the product. His job is to get users excited about these changes. Think Dom Sigalas videos on the Steinberg channel (since you've mentioned Nuendo).

IMO tags were clearly necessary for Reason+ packs to be usable beyond a certain volume of patches. That explains why the browser was prioritized for this release and why user tags weren't initially added (Reason+ usability was the main motivation). And for whatever reason along the way, RS decided that a floating browser was the best approach for surfacing those tags. I can't say I agree, but I'm sure it was a collaborative decision.



Theo's posts are admittedly long, rambling, and emotionally charged. But in context he was contrasting patch browsing in REs vs VSTs. That is, VSTs (with their own integrated browsers) are not supported in the rack plugin, so you have no choice but to use devices that load patches via the new R13 browser.

Responding to a sincerely passionate critique with a terse accusation of lying is just pointless needling imo.
Whether intentional or not, his literal words are incorrect. You can lie without knowing you are lying if your words are lies even though the fact they are lies is unbecknownst to you. I quote:

"I realised, truly, that in its current state, I was being idealistic and foolish to think I could ever see Reason as more than a plugin to use in Pro Tools or Nuendo. However, because of the new browser, the plugin mode has been ruined for me too, because in plugin mode, only Reason devices can be used (incl RE), which all work in conjunction with the browser. There's no other browser available and they removed the gorgeous docked browser on the left. I can't risk it and keep using it because for all I know, V12 won't even work in the very next Mac OS release, and V12 has reached the end of its update cycle."

So, he said: "because in plugin mode, only Reason devices can be used" and then said "which all work in conjunction with the browser." which is not really true as you can load any Re and reason device from the device browser. Then he says "There's no other browser available " which is also not true. The device browser is right there, he and we all can load any device from there. HE is not talking about patches "only Reason devices can be used (incl RE), which all work in conjunction with the browser" DEVICES. He makes it sound like you have no options but the scawy, evil, new browser to load any device in RRP, which makes it UNUSABLE for anyone! UNUSABLE!!!!!!!!!!

:?:

If I was a kid just learning about music programs I might want to use and stumbled upon these parts of the internet I would write off this horrible program based on a bucnh of misunderstandings and, yes, lies, all over the internet.
His posts in this thread reflect emotional investment in the software, which probably isn't the healthiest thing, but it's also hard to avoid when the software is so integral to the art we create.

The device palette is not a substitute for a patch browser, even if you personally consider it a "browser" (though officially, it is indeed called the "device palette"). But ultimately, I don't care about the precision of that language.

I think I understood the point Theo was making. If you can't extend the slightest amount of charity given the inherent ambiguity of language, then I don't have much else to say.

PhillipOrdonez
Posts: 3945
Joined: 20 Oct 2017
Location: Norway

Post 15 Jul 2024

Of course i also understand his point. I also know he could be better at choosing words to avoid misunderstanding. He's a native English speaker isn't he? There's no excuse there.

I don't have much else to say either. This is so lame.

I know someone who had lots to say though and has pretty much been saying the same thing nonstop for a while.

👍

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Pepin
Posts: 603
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

Post 15 Jul 2024

PhillipOrdonez wrote:
15 Jul 2024
I know someone who had lots to say though and has pretty much been saying the same thing nonstop for a while.
I don't even know what this means. It sounds like you're alluding to my own posts lately? Sorry for being lame I guess? I post on a variety of topics...

PhillipOrdonez
Posts: 3945
Joined: 20 Oct 2017
Location: Norway

Post 15 Jul 2024

Pepin wrote:
15 Jul 2024
PhillipOrdonez wrote:
15 Jul 2024
I know someone who had lots to say though and has pretty much been saying the same thing nonstop for a while.
I don't even know what this means. It sounds like you're alluding to my own posts lately? Sorry for being lame I guess? I post on a variety of topics...
I'm not.

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miyaru
Posts: 641
Joined: 28 Oct 2019
Location: Zaanstad, The Netherlands

Post 15 Jul 2024

PhillipOrdonez wrote:
15 Jul 2024
miyaru wrote:
15 Jul 2024
The main reason not to upgrade is the fact I'm going to switch (99% sure) to the Akai Professional Force system. I do not want spent any money on a new music PC anymore. My old i7-7700 is not able to run Win11, and I'm going to build a PC from my two current PC's, and it will not be a music PC anymore, but a jack of all trades, running a six core i5. The i5 is my office machine, which will get the housing (19" server housing from my music PC).

The old i7 goes in a medium tower housing, and will proberly become an Ubuntu machine for fun.

Today I sold my 5 string Status Graphite Energy Bass to pay for the Akai Force. I'm also going to sell my Ableton Push 2 to buy some stuff for the Akai. I want an UDG case fore it, and then some cable stuff.

If I get the i5 running Win11 to properly run music software, I will use REason 12 and Ableton LIve 10 Suite, otherwise goodby to music making on PC.

As things are now looking good for buying the Akai Force, I will get me one, and being able to go everywhere with this self contained composition machine makes me happy.

I'm making less and less music these days, partly due to the fact I'm getting deaf (-46dB @ 4KHz!!!!!!), and partly due to circumstances in my life.

So the cheapest way to have another chalange and maybe a fresh horizon.

But 'till october 2025 I can use my current old music PC, and sample my favo sounds from Reason stuff into the Akai.

We will see what the future will bring!!!!!
Nice! I hope you get to use the computer to run any DAW so you can finish your songs. Hardware is nice to have and to play with, but not as straightforward to finish stuff in, especially not with a single box. The Akai system can get you far though if you master it. Good luck on your learning curve. Enlightenspeed knows the system well and can help you get started if you ask him for advice. I'm on the MPC live 2 and as far as I understand it their OS is quite similar but not exactly the same, though i understand the force has some advantages over the MPC in some areas, the MPC had the edge over other areas iirc. That's the thing with hardware, there's not a perfect box that can do it all but you have to trade a thing for another and have to find the workflow that clicks with your brain.

👍
Thanx for your kind and encouraging words. You make me feel good!
Greetings from Miyaru.
Prodaw i7-7700, 16Gb Ram, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd gen, ESI M4U eX, Reason12, Live Suit 10, Push2, Presonus Eris E8 and Monitor Station V2, Lexicon MPX1,
Korg N1, Yamaha RM1x :thumbup:

esme
Posts: 33
Joined: 19 Jun 2024

Post 16 Jul 2024

this thread becomes unhealthy

PhillipOrdonez
Posts: 3945
Joined: 20 Oct 2017
Location: Norway

Post 16 Jul 2024

miyaru wrote:
15 Jul 2024
PhillipOrdonez wrote:
15 Jul 2024


Nice! I hope you get to use the computer to run any DAW so you can finish your songs. Hardware is nice to have and to play with, but not as straightforward to finish stuff in, especially not with a single box. The Akai system can get you far though if you master it. Good luck on your learning curve. Enlightenspeed knows the system well and can help you get started if you ask him for advice. I'm on the MPC live 2 and as far as I understand it their OS is quite similar but not exactly the same, though i understand the force has some advantages over the MPC in some areas, the MPC had the edge over other areas iirc. That's the thing with hardware, there's not a perfect box that can do it all but you have to trade a thing for another and have to find the workflow that clicks with your brain.

👍
Thanx for your kind and encouraging words. You make me feel good!
❤️

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