My journey with Reason+

[selig]

Calculations like this are moot, as they don't take into account if you actually have the money all these years to pay the monthly fee. The only way this comparisson holds is if you have that money upfront and put it away to ensure you can pay all those years. And if you have the money upfront, you might as well get a full license. Also, not everyone wants or needs all the RS rack extensions.

The reality is that you don't know if you can pay the subscription fee next year or the year after that, and that means you will lose access to your previous projects AND the possibility to make music with Reason. If I don't spend any money on Reason from now on, I'm pretty sure I can use what I have for many years to come. Well, unless I would be using a Mac (I'm not), because then you do need the updates

Calculations like this are not moot, they are accurate but incomplete because the user’s needs and wants and value are not able to be considered. It’s like saying the perpetual license cost is moot because they don’t take into account if you actually have the money up front to pay the full license fee. It cuts both ways as far as I can see, but it comes down to the value for each person, which can’t be determined by us.

If you want to pay more up front you get more in return, you get to use it for years to come (yes, even us Mac users!). But if you don’t have $200+ laying around and want to get started today, you spend $20 and can dip your toes into the ENTIRE Reason eco-system for a month. Or you can spend 10x that and get a year. Or 10x THAT and get 10+ years. It actually scales fairly linearly from what I see. None of the options are literally “perpetual” just to be clear, and in each case you pay roughly 10x more for 10x more use.

It would make little sense for me, someone who already owns most everything from RS, to throw it away and start a subscription instead. Just as it would make little sense for someone not invested in the platform to go “all in” without knowing the value for them. As someone just dipping their toes in the RS ecosystem, dropping $600 may not only not make sense if you don’t have $600, but also may not make sense if you’re not even sure you are going to still WANT to use Reason a year from now.

I wonder if us ‘seasoned’ Reason users see it differently because we are already confident Reason is the best DAW for us. But take a moment to reflect back to when you didn’t know anything about Reason, had little disposable income, and simply wanted to explore a musical hobby and wondered if Reason was worth it for you. It’s all about value, which is a personal determination, right?

I haven’t mentioned this before, but at the opposite end of the spectrum from the weekend hobbyist is the full time pro user that needs (or simply wants) access to everything from RS and has a yearly budget for software. If I was running a full time music production company and needed to build a couple of basic production suites, $200/yr is an attractive deal and is super easy to budget - no need to try to predict or project how much Reason is going to cost each year or wonder if a new RE is in the budget or not, with a subscription you have fixed costs that never change and you get everything they release.

As a company owner that could be a very attractive deal I would think, certainly worth serious consideration. But again each person must determine the value.

For someone who doesn’t use (or want to use) Reason, both the perpetual and the subscription license are worth exactly the same: zero, nada, zilch! Meaning, value (like beauty) is in the ‘eye of the beholder’. The numbers are not automatically moot because you don’t personally see the value IMO.

[avasopht]

I haven’t mentioned this before, but at the opposite end of the spectrum from the weekend hobbyist is the full time pro user that needs (or simply wants) access to everything from RS and has a yearly budget for software. If I was running a full time music production company and needed to build a couple of basic production suites, $200/yr is an attractive deal and is super easy to budget - no need to try to predict or project how much Reason is going to cost each year or wonder if a new RE is in the budget or not, with a subscription you have fixed costs that never change and you get everything they release.

Yes, for those users it's a no-brainer.

But unlike Adobe, they are much more of a minority.

I've sold a lot of web developers and designers into paying for either Adobe Creative Cloud or JetBrains on the simple basis that if they plan to make a living from this, it's predicated on the ability to be able to pay the little $20-50/mo that enables the living. Not doing so is committing to not being able to make a living.

I've used a similar argument to beatmakers who were looking for free alternatives and stuff (though not so much about making a living, but living itself as you only have one life to live, so you better take your hobbies seriously).

...

But I'm not sure which would be an easier sell between a Reason subscription and a perpetual license.

If you're aiming to become a professional, I'd say it's a no-brainer.

It's what I did with EWQL. That year I had a goal (not primarily making music, but it could make use of it).

Even someone who is pretty broke can still fork out $20/mo for Reason, $15/mo for Studio One+, and $10/mo on either Roland Cloud, Arcade or NI Play.

Besides, Cakewalk by BandLab is FREE (but Studio One+ comes with a decent set of instruments and sounds).

...

In the grand scheme of things, you can easily spend more than $20 on food, snacks and drinks each time you go into the office.

And for just $20/mo you have more than any music maker had in the 00's.

If RS bought out the Sonic Reality Gold samples and let the community put together a bread-and-butter sound library reminiscent of what you'd find on a Roland, Korg or Yamaha workstation (maybe even one resembling the structure of each), that would round out the offering.

[crimsonwarlock]

It’s like saying the perpetual license cost is moot because they don’t take into account if you actually have the money up front to pay the full license fee.

That is a pretty skewed comparison because you actually KNOW if you have the money up front, but you can't know if you can afford the subscription somewhere in the future. My point was/is pretty clear: if you have a perpetual license, you know you can use it in the future, even if budgets are tight. If you have a subscription, you obviously don't know that. There's no argument that can invalidate that point. Last time I checked.... nope, future gazing crystal balls are still not a reality

[joeyluck]

Are we talking about just buying the DAW or buying everything that comes with Reason+? Because if you just buy the DAW, you don't have what you get with Reason+ and that defeats the point of comparison.

So then let's say somebody makes that hefty purchase, which might make somebody behind on their bills, not to mention they lose their job they didn't predict losing. We can't predict the future... Then they are trying to sell a Reason license at a loss and can't sell REs which is a bigger loss, and they are in the spot you fear—they are without Reason. The person on the subscription hasn't spent as much money, and won't spend as much money for 11-12 years, so they are probably doing better in a financial crisis. They can also stop and start at any time.

I think a good amount of thought and consideration is good, but not too much I think people can make the best decisions for themselves.

[crimsonwarlock]

So then let's say somebody makes that hefty purchase, which might make somebody behind on their bills, not to mention they lose their job they didn't predict losing.

I never made any statement anywhere here on the forum, that what you describe would be a healthy, smart, or whatever thing to do. This is definitely not what people (like me) are saying here. Seriously, is it so difficult to acknowledge that renting something will only provide you with access to it in the future if you keep on renting it? Because that is the only point that I (and others here on the forum) am making.

And to actually drive my point home here; Yes, I do have perpetual licenses for all Reason REs, and a lot more REs from other developers because I had the money several years ago to buy all of those things. However, currently I wouldn't be able to pay for an annual subscription of R+, even at the discount of last week. But I have been able to work on a new track for the last two weeks because it doesn't cost me a penny to start Reason and use it right now. Making music is an emotional outlet for me, something I seriously need in my life, especially when life is challenging financially or otherwise. I do understand that not everyone is this invested in music, but I also know that many are.

I also never said that people who are subscribing, should get a perpetual license instead. Indeed, everyone makes their own decisions. But it is only fair to point out the downsides of subscriptions as well.

I'll leave it at that.

[QVprod]

It’s like saying the perpetual license cost is moot because they don’t take into account if you actually have the money up front to pay the full license fee.

That is a pretty skewed comparison because you actually KNOW if you have the money up front, but you can't know if you can afford the subscription somewhere in the future.

Is it really this common to not know what you can afford from month to month? (please take no offense, I've seen others make the same argument) I'd say of course anyone in a less than stable financial position probably shouldn't subscribe obviously. I'm aware that things happen and you can fall on hard times, but we're talking about outlier situations and not the norm for people who are able to afford the subscription most likely.

I think the overall sentiment that people can make the decision that best suits them is the answer. There are benefits to both subscribing or buying a license depending on your situation. Thankfully we have the option of both that's unlikely to change.

[crimsonwarlock]

Is it really this common to not know what you can afford from month to month?

With the current worldwide economic situation, it is rather naive to think that everything around you will stay the same. Besides that, accidents happen and can happen to everyone. It happened to me last year (my right hand fingers) which is impacting my financial situation right now.

Let's just say I have an experienced perspective

[SuperEight]

Hi all, I'm new to the forum but I've been with Reason since ver.4.

I understand the subscription model's appeal to some but I like to own my stuff. I still have a computer running WinXP with old software (including Reason 6.5) that I enjoy using regularly. There is no way I would have kept subscriptions going for this long... in some cases 25 years! But that's just me. Other people may not see the value in that.

What does piss me of about Reason Studio's push to for the subscription model is how they have worked to make Reason Perpetual License a poorer value, which is really a slap in the face to the people who have supported this DAW over the years. The upgrade to 12 right now is $200 (the $99 Black Friday sale was only one week long). But the $99 sale for a year of Plus is still in effect.
Plus offers a lot of devices and goodies which perpetual license buyers won't get unless they buy them separately and the price for a perpetual license is now $500. So Reason Studios clearly favors the subscribers over the buyers.

Compare this to FL Studio, which is about as old as Reason and to my knowledge is now the most popular DAW on the market.
$99, $200, $300, $400 for the different tiers, all of which are discounted right now. Lifetime free updates. NO SUBSCRIPTIONS.
It is safe to say that FL's user base has been rotten to Imageline since most of them only got into FL because they could just download a cracked version off of Kazaa. But Imageine did everything they could to make buying their software as appealing and value-laden as possible. And it worked!

I understand that Propellerheads went through some though times overhauling code to get VST support and plugin compatability with other DAW's, plus reskinning all of their Rack devices for hi-rez (which look awesome BTW...yes, even the fan!), but is this really how you treat your loyal customers who have stuck with you over the decades? I love using Reason. It is such a cool DAW. But subscriptions are mainly for DAW hoppers and are a poorer value over the long-term. Buyers are INVESTED in the platform and they are the one's who Reason Studios gives the short end of the stick to.

If you made it this far. Hi, I'm Paul. Nice to meet you.

[joeyluck]

Welcome, Paul. Interesting perspective. So you don't like subscriptions, find value in owning, but acknowledge the subscription is a better deal?

I didn't notice a difference in the duration of sales for Reason perpetual and Reason+, neither is on sale currently.

$99 upgrade from Reason 6.5 is a crazy value, $199 upgrade from 6.5 is still a crazy value.

[QVprod]

Is it really this common to not know what you can afford from month to month?

With the current worldwide economic situation, it is rather naive to think that everything around you will stay the same. Besides that, accidents happen and can happen to everyone. It happened to me last year (my right hand fingers) which is impacting my financial situation right now.

Let's just say I have an experienced perspective

The world is constantly in fluctuating economic situations and plenty of people have had stable incomes through all of it. You had an unfortunate accident. But I still lean on people being able to make their own choices about which is better. Their perspective being based on their experience. It really does vary by the individual which is likely why the subscription is optional even if strongly encouraged.

[antic604]

Other than continued DAW improvements and 2-3 new REs/year, what would make me go for subscription is stacking of the subs. For example, when there's a sale I should be able to buy e.g. 2 codes and have 2 year paid upfront; or buy a code and ADD it to what I have currently left. Neither is possible presently

[selig]

It’s like saying the perpetual license cost is moot because they don’t take into account if you actually have the money up front to pay the full license fee.

That is a pretty skewed comparison because you actually KNOW if you have the money up front, but you can't know if you can afford the subscription somewhere in the future. My point was/is pretty clear: if you have a perpetual license, you know you can use it in the future, even if budgets are tight. If you have a subscription, you obviously don't know that. There's no argument that can invalidate that point. Last time I checked.... nope, future gazing crystal balls are still not a reality

Every comparison is skewed, that’s my point. The value is determined by each person.
I don’t know if I’ll be alive tomorrow, so there is indeed no crystal ball.

[avasopht]

True, each person determines value.

But a value offering could be pulling all the wrong levers for too many people. That's how Xerox, Kodak, MySpace, RIM, TinyPC, IBM (PC division), Yahoo! and Nokia lost an empire overnight.

I hope I'm wrong, but R+ feels like an extraordinary product destined to take over the world by storm, had it not been for the presence of a few subtle, but fundamental blunders.



Maybe I'm staring too much into the crystal ball and am overthinking my reluctance to subscribe.

But I'd like R+ to be a no-brainer for me.



Reason is still "my DAW".

Something about R+ just feels out of place and I can't quite put my finger on it.



But it's not just R+.

RS seems to have done Price Anchoring in the worst way possible. R+ sort of devalues Reason on the perceptual map of "how much stuff has it got".

In Price Anchoring theory, offering a much higher priced product can make a product more appealing and motivate sales without changing anything about a product. But I feel R+ has done the exact opposite.

Not to mention the fact that it all just means we get far fewer gizmos from RS than we used to.



It seems like RS made an executive decision to increase the lifetime value of each user instead of focusing on increasing the number of users.



I hope I'm wrong, but there's something about the R+ offering that doesn't quite feel right, and I don't know what it is.



On the other hand, it is a great product with lots and lots of awesome stuff included.

[avasopht]

Anyways, I think I just need to subscribe to Reason+ for a year (DONE )

If this R+ subscription don't get me a Grammy by 2025, I'm switching to FLStudio

[SuperEight]

First, let me apologize for my first post being a rant. I actually love Reason and I appreciate that ReasonStudios is doing what they feel they need to do to keep the lights on. But I don't think R+ is destined to last and I do think they left their most loyal supporters out in the cold in an effort to make R+ more appealing.

So you don't like subscriptions, find value in owning, but acknowledge the subscription is a better deal?

Anything is a better deal if you just offer more for a monthly subscription fee and then offer less and raise the cost of a perpetual license. That doesn't make it a better value over time if it's your daily driver since you lose everything the moment you stop paying. If Reason really is in competition with Netflix then the subscription probably makes more sense since at that level it's probably just a toy for sound tinkerers to play around with till they move on to something else.

I didn't notice a difference in the duration of sales for Reason perpetual and Reason+, neither is on sale currently.

It was when I checked. The sale may be over. My point was that it went on since Black Friday but the upgrade sale was over in a week.

$99 upgrade from Reason 6.5 is a crazy value, $199 upgrade from 6.5 is still a crazy value.

I'm sorry I gave the wrong impression. 6.5 is the last version I have a disc for and the last version I can run on WinXP. I have upgraded multiple times since version 6.5. I have 12 on my main desktop and my laptop.

Comparing to other DAW's, I already mentioned FL Studio, which is a far better deal than Reason.
Logic, if you're into Apple is $200, and I believe that is also lifetime updates.
Bitwig, my other DAW is $400 for a perpetual license including a year of updates and content. When the year is up you can choose to renew your license for $170. Either way the DAW is YOUR'S to keep. This imho is the approach Reason Studio's should be taking rather than playing favorites with subscribers over buyers.

[moneykube]

Anyways, I think I just need to subscribe to Reason+ for a year (DONE )

If this R+ subscription don't get me a Grammy by 2025, I'm switching to FLStudio

The bridge is exactly where now?
What was it's price again ?

[avasopht]

The bridge is exactly where now?
What was it's price again ?

I just figured I'd give it a try.

I got a year for $100.

It's much more of an experiment if anything.

[Loque]

Anyways, I think I just need to subscribe to Reason+ for a year (DONE )

If this R+ subscription don't get me a Grammy by 2025, I'm switching to FLStudio

Isn't there already a AI I can prompt: "Compose a song which gives me a Grammy"? So why to use a DAW for that?

[avasopht]

Isn't there already a AI I can prompt: "Compose a song which gives me a Grammy"? So why to use a DAW for that?

It feeds the ego.

Now if you don't mind, I need to find my "I R+" bumper sticker and faded tee

[antic604]

Something about R+ just feels out of place and I can't quite put my finger on it.

I think it's the fact that non-Reason DAW users are forced into subscription, because they won't spend $500 for a DAW they won't use. And that Reason DAW-faithful are doubtful about the DAW development going forward, so they prefer to "own" the version they use.

I think they'd have more success if they:
* offered free, empty Reason Rack Plugin to support their own and 3rd party RE sales
* sold Reason DAW separately, cheaper
* sold 2 subscription plans:
---- cheaper - with just the RRP & RS devices, sound packs, etc.
---- current - with addition of the DAW

[moneykube]

I just figured I'd give it a try.
I got a year for $100.
It's much more of an experiment if anything.

my apologies... I misunderstood and thought you were only joking> based on the comment above where you stated that you subscribed. Good price. Happy experimenting.

[selig]

Something about R+ just feels out of place and I can't quite put my finger on it.

I think it's the fact that non-Reason DAW users are forced into subscription, because they won't spend $500 for a DAW they won't use. And that Reason DAW-faithful are doubtful about the DAW development going forward, so they prefer to "own" the version they use.

I love the idea of being forced to make a purchase against your will, some strong marketing going on there!
Anyone who has any experience with RS knows how slow things go and how few request have ever been answered directly, so I'd suggest "doubtful" is simply our 'resting face' since day one rather than anything recent!

[selig]

What does piss me of about Reason Studio's push to for the subscription model is how they have worked to make Reason Perpetual License a poorer value, which is really a slap in the face to the people who have supported this DAW over the years.

I do not agree that my perpetual license has a poorer value, if anything the value has continually increased for me. Plus, it is not up to others to define the value for me. I do not feel slapped in the face, I feel thankful that in 20 years of using Reason they have only increased the upgrade price exactly once (recently).

If you made it this far. Hi, I'm Paul. Nice to meet you.

Hi Paul, I’m Giles - nice to meet you and welcome to the forums!

[PhillipOrdonez]

I think it's the fact that non-Reason DAW users are forced into subscription, because they won't spend $500 for a DAW they won't use. And that Reason DAW-faithful are doubtful about the DAW development going forward, so they prefer to "own" the version they use.

I love the idea of being forced to make a purchase against your will, some strong marketing going on there!
Anyone who has any experience with RS knows how slow things go and how few request have ever been answered directly, so I'd suggest "doubtful" is simply our 'resting face' since day one rather than anything recent!

I can think of various scenarios where somebody would feel forced to sub in order to access a device they’re interested in because the other option is to spend 500 bucks on a daw they’re not intending to use plus whatever the cost of the device they are interested in. So I see where that statement by Antic604 is coming from. I’m sure you do too.

[avasopht]

I can think of various scenarios where somebody would feel forced to sub in order to access a device they’re interested in because the other option is to spend 500 bucks on a daw they’re not intending to use plus whatever the cost of the device they are interested in. So I see where that statement by Antic604 is coming from. I’m sure you do too.

Which could also have the opposite effect and cause them to shun the supplier.

We saw what happened to unity