My journey with Reason+

[antic604]

It's not about the price. It's about what you're getting for it.

If Reason Studios starts updating the DAW frequently with actual workflow stuff + will release 2-3 devices every year, then I'd go for subscription in a heart beat.

Right now, with v12 upgraded from v11 Suite with all but 3 RS REs (vocoder, chord thingy and Objekt) and no official plans for v13, why would I even bother with R+?

[Aosta]

It's not about the price. It's about what you're getting for it.

If Reason Studios starts updating the DAW frequently with actual workflow stuff + will release 2-3 devices every year, then I'd go for subscription in a heart beat.

Right now, with v12 upgraded from v11 Suite with all but 3 RS REs (vocoder, chord thingy and Objekt) and no official plans for v13, why would I even bother with R+?

Same, R11 and I have all the REs I need including objekt. I have no need for soundpacks or the other stuff that comes with R12.
R11 works perfectly fine for me so why would I go subscription?

[joeyluck]

You have to account for the cost of Reason, every existing RE...

Every existing RE is definitely NOT included in R+, only Reason Studio's own REs.

Of course, you know what I meant

[joeyluck]

Here's the breakdown:

Regular Prices

• Total cost of Reason Studios REs: $1839
• Total cost of REs & Reason: $2338
• Cost of Reason+ annual: $199

Total years subscribing to equal regular total: 11.75

Sale Prices

• Total cost of Reason Studios REs: $967
• Total cost of REs & Reason: $1216
• Cost of Reason+ annual: $99

Total years subscribing to equal current sale total: 12.28

Note: This is based on sale prices of Reason and REs as of 2023-12-28

This is only accounting for what is there today. This also isn't accounting for the fact that there has been one Reason upgrade since Reason+ started with Reason 11. And it goes without saying that this isn't accounting for Reason upgrades and new devices that will be released during those 11-12 years of subscribing.

Someone's personal opinion on value is one thing, but there is discussion here about actual cost to buy versus subscribing, and here it is. Someone new to Reason today, subscribing to Reason+, I would argue would never pay more out of pocket than someone buying everything, unless nothing is added during those 11-12 years.

And looking at those numbers, it could also be argued that someone subscribing to Reason+ might still not pay as much for many years as someone who has bought Reason and only the REs they want.

[crimsonwarlock]

Of course, you know what I meant

No, you were ambiguous, and people might think you meant EXACTLY what you stated.

Here's the breakdown:

Regular Prices

• Total cost of Reason Studios REs: $1839
• Total cost of REs & Reason: $2338
• Cost of Reason+ annual: $199

Total years subscribing to equal regular total: 11.75

Sale Prices

• Total cost of Reason Studios REs: $967
• Total cost of REs & Reason: $1216
• Cost of Reason+ annual: $99

Total years subscribing to equal current sale total: 12.28

Calculations like this are moot, as they don't take into account if you actually have the money all these years to pay the monthly fee. The only way this comparisson holds is if you have that money upfront and put it away to ensure you can pay all those years. And if you have the money upfront, you might as well get a full license. Also, not everyone wants or needs all the RS rack extensions.

The reality is that you don't know if you can pay the subscription fee next year or the year after that, and that means you will lose access to your previous projects AND the possibility to make music with Reason. If I don't spend any money on Reason from now on, I'm pretty sure I can use what I have for many years to come. Well, unless I would be using a Mac (I'm not), because then you do need the updates

[joeyluck]

Here's the breakdown:

Regular Prices

• Total cost of Reason Studios REs: $1839
• Total cost of REs & Reason: $2338
• Cost of Reason+ annual: $199

Total years subscribing to equal regular total: 11.75

Sale Prices

• Total cost of Reason Studios REs: $967
• Total cost of REs & Reason: $1216
• Cost of Reason+ annual: $99

Total years subscribing to equal current sale total: 12.28

Calculations like this are moot, as they don't take into account if you actually have the money all these years to pay the monthly fee. The only way this comparisson holds is if you have that money upfront and put it away to ensure you can pay all those years. And if you have the money upfront, you might as well get a full license. Also, not everyone wants or needs all the RS rack extensions.

It seems like you are trying to make an argument against subscriptions for people who simply don't like or don't get value out of subscriptions, and those points are moot

Again, look at any subscription. If you see the value in Disney+ and enjoy more than just Return of the Jedi, then by all means, subscribe to Disney+. If you just want to watch Return of the Jedi, then just buy the dang movie. But don't argue the value of Disney+ because you think everybody else only wants Return of the Jedi.

It's pretty simple. The numbers and value don't lie. It doesn't mean it has to be for everybody.

[DaveyG]

The flaw in Joey's numbers is that he's placed absolutely no value on the perpetual nature of buying it. If you rent a car for a month you can't drive it the month after. You don't have the money you spent or own any of the car. If you rent Reason for a month or year you can't use it after that unless you pay more. You own nothing and all your Reason projects are unusable unless you keep paying.

Companies only introduce subscriptions because they will make more money from users in the long term.

Reason subscribers should earn credits towards owning it.

[EnordVer]

I have been subbed to reason+ at the sale price of 99$ for a few years now. I feel like at that price, even for a person who owns R12, and all of the extensions released prior to R+ being available it’s still not a bad deal. For 7.50$ a month I like not being tempted to buy everything as soon as it’s released. I can use it under the sub and if it turns out I like it and I want to make sure I always have it, I can buy it on sale. I also like the packs, mostly because I like seeing how they are made and the fact that you can open them up and tinker with them. I have learned a lot just from digging through the presets to see how all of these sound designers approach such a vast collection of synths and effects.

Cost wise I think R+ has been a wash for me, but benefit wise, I think I’ve got a lot out of it. I don’t think it’s for everyone though which is why I am glad they are not forcing the sub as the only option.

[joeyluck]

The flaw in Joey's numbers is that he's placed absolutely no value on the perpetual nature of buying it. If you rent a car for a month you can't drive it the month after. You don't have the money you spent or own any of the car. If you rent Reason for a month or year you can't use it after that unless you pay more. You own nothing and all your Reason projects are unusable unless you keep paying.

Companies only introduce subscriptions because they will make more money from users in the long term.

Reason subscribers should earn credits towards owning it.

I agree that it would be great to see vouchers like Kilohearts does, or locked projects you can still open like others have suggested.

But to be clear, I'm not arguing the value of one over the other. That is decided by the individual. I'm just highlighting the value as it pertains to costs, since that is a subject of this topic. I do think that anybody looking at a subscription only as a way to "rent" and have access only to what they have today is not looking at a subscription the right way, or in other words, subscriptions just aren't for those people and that's ok. People figure out what is important to them which helps guide their decisions.

[dakta]

TBH I thought it would be sooner than that before subscription fees exceed perpetual, so whilst its clearly not to float everyones boat even as a crude calculation getting nearly a decade pretty good going.

Regarding not been able to afford a month - been there, done that - what generally happens is you just pick up when you can. Give the cost of the subs in relative terms to daily expenses I'm probably best focusing on solving some more important stuff that month anyway.

Not for everyone but allowing the subs, especially as it's not under contract for a determined period, really does open up access to a lower budget audience.


Ultimately RS allow both, you don't get that option in a lot of places.

[joeyluck]

TBH I thought it would be sooner than that before subscription fees exceed perpetual, so whilst its clearly not to float everyones boat even as a crude calculation getting nearly a decade pretty good going.

Regarding not been able to afford a month - been there, done that - what generally happens is you just pick up when you can. Give the cost of the subs in relative terms to daily expenses I'm probably best focusing on solving some more important stuff that month anyway.

Not for everyone but allowing the subs, especially as it's not under contract for a determined period, really does open up access to a lower budget audience.


Ultimately RS allow both, you don't get that option in a lot of places.

And of course people need to do the math for themselves based on what they have.

But yeah for someone starting fresh, it would be over a decade before they've paid what they would pay today buying everything. And again, that's also not accounting for everything else released each year after, so then I think the total cost of subscription never surpasses that of buying everything.

I've been more on the perpetual team myself, but I do really like the idea of just having immediate access to all the new stuff and new surprises without the deliberation—just dive in and start playing with it.

All that time some of us spend on deciding whether or not to upgrade and then, "Is it too late to upgrade? Is the next version due soon?" and "I can't decide between these REs during this sale, what should I get?" and so on...

I like the sound packs for what they are, but I am a ReFill kind of person. I like more of a story and something to dig into rather than snack sized packs.

[DaveyG]

I do think that anybody looking at a subscription only as a way to "rent" and have access only to what they have today is not looking at a subscription the right way

A subscription is EXACTLY that. You are renting the software and the REs. Stop paying and you lose access to them. It's a simple concept.

[joeyluck]

I do think that anybody looking at a subscription only as a way to "rent" and have access only to what they have today is not looking at a subscription the right way

A subscription is EXACTLY that. You are renting the software and the REs. Stop paying and you lose access to them. It's a simple concept.

But it's not that. It's a subscription. It's access to Reason and future upgrades and every Reason Studios RE available today and in the future. That's why you would subscribe—you would subscribe to a flow of software content. If you don't see it that way and instead want to think about it as indefinitely renting only what you have today, then a subscription is not for you.

If I want to subscribe to Netflix to watch a season of Stranger Things and then cancel, and then I find myself wanting to watch the next season, I subscribe again. It's as simple as that—you pick back up. Now if I were to think about it as only renting Stranger Things, but also just paying to rent the first season, then I'd say that probably don't understand a subscription service and it's probably not for me.

[Jackjackdaw]

That is some odd logic. The distinction of renting the entire catalogue or renting an item in the catalogue doesn’t make each option a unique concept, it’s still renting .

[jam-s]

Here's the breakdown:

Regular Prices

• Total cost of Reason Studios REs: $1839
• Total cost of REs & Reason: $2338
• Cost of Reason+ annual: $199

Total years subscribing to equal regular total: 11.75

Sale Prices

• Total cost of Reason Studios REs: $967
• Total cost of REs & Reason: $1216
• Cost of Reason+ annual: $99

Total years subscribing to equal current sale total: 12.28

Note: This is based on sale prices of Reason and REs as of 2023-12-28

The main flaw on this calculation is that it assumes that RS would never raise the price of the subscription.

[joeyluck]

That is some odd logic. The distinction of renting the entire catalogue or renting an item in the catalogue doesn’t make each option a unique concept, it’s still renting .

I'm just talking about the mindset someone would have behind renting what they have today rather than subscribing to a flow of content.

I think some people who are die hard perpetual license users simply have a hard time not thinking about it as just renting only what they have today. That's why they would dismiss any chart showing cost and value over time. And that's a reason why a subscription doesn't appeal to them. They still think about it in a perpetual way—very fixed and stuck in the moment and not thinking about future upgrades and content.

[joeyluck]

Here's the breakdown:

Regular Prices

• Total cost of Reason Studios REs: $1839
• Total cost of REs & Reason: $2338
• Cost of Reason+ annual: $199

Total years subscribing to equal regular total: 11.75

Sale Prices

• Total cost of Reason Studios REs: $967
• Total cost of REs & Reason: $1216
• Cost of Reason+ annual: $99

Total years subscribing to equal current sale total: 12.28

Note: This is based on sale prices of Reason and REs as of 2023-12-28

The main flaw on this calculation is that it assumes that RS would never raise the price of the subscription.

Nor does it account for the potential rise in price of Reason and the upgrades, right? I figure it goes hand in hand...

Reason actually went up in price while the subscription didn't.

[avasopht]

Here's the breakdown:

Regular Prices

• Total cost of Reason Studios REs: $1839
• Total cost of REs & Reason: $2338
• Cost of Reason+ annual: $199

Total years subscribing to equal regular total: 11.75

Sale Prices

• Total cost of Reason Studios REs: $967
• Total cost of REs & Reason: $1216
• Cost of Reason+ annual: $99

Total years subscribing to equal current sale total: 12.28

Note: This is based on sale prices of Reason and REs as of 2023-12-28

This is only accounting for what is there today. This also isn't accounting for the fact that there has been one Reason upgrade since Reason+ started with Reason 11. And it goes without saying that this isn't accounting for Reason upgrades and new devices that will be released during those 11-12 years of subscribing.

Someone's personal opinion on value is one thing, but there is discussion here about actual cost to buy versus subscribing, and here it is. Someone new to Reason today, subscribing to Reason+, I would argue would never pay more out of pocket than someone buying everything, unless nothing is added during those 11-12 years.

And looking at those numbers, it could also be argued that someone subscribing to Reason+ might still not pay as much for many years as someone who has bought Reason and only the REs they want.

That's assuming they had an interest and desire to purchase all of the Reason REs. If they don't, then that calculation does not apply.

It doesn't matter to anyone if, had they purchased product X for £100, they also get free product Y worth £1,000,000 if product Y is something they neither need, want, nor will ever find any use for.

The value comes from what people want from it, not the "you've saved £1,000,000 calculation".

[avasopht]

That is some odd logic. The distinction of renting the entire catalogue or renting an item in the catalogue doesn’t make each option a unique concept, it’s still renting .

I'm just talking about the mindset someone would have behind renting what they have today rather than subscribing to a flow of content.

I think some people who are die hard perpetual license users simply have a hard time not thinking about it as just renting only what they have today. That's why they would dismiss any chart showing cost and value over time. And that's a reason why a subscription doesn't appeal to them. They still think about it in a perpetual way—very fixed and stuck in the moment and not thinking about future upgrades and content.

As someone who does have software subscriptions (Adobe Cloud, The-Microsoft-One and JetBrains) but also has perpetual licenses, it's not just a matter of die hard perpetual license users. That's a crude oversimplification.

When it comes to future upgrades, some people will skip versions and only pay for an upgrade when it catches them. So right out the gate, a subscription has to offer them a hell of a lot more.

Now, I'm not saying that there is no value in an R+ subscription.

I'm just sharing my perspective of it and pointing out why it might be a hard sell.

Also consider that for $20/mo you're also competing with:

1. Roland Cloud ($10/mo for a really good package).
2. EWQL Creative Cloud ($20/mo).
3. Studio One+ ($20/mo, or $15/mo billed annually).
4. ProTools Studio ($25/mo for 1yr subscription).
- Pro Tools artist is ($10/mo)
5. Native Instruments Now ($10/mo).
6. Logic Pro ($199 for a permanent license, which works out to $17/mo spread out over a year).

---

Of course, we don't know what Reason Studios has in store for us over the next few years.

This will be the longest gap between versions of Reason.

Maybe RS is focusing on the long-term strategy.

They've overhauled the core code. Maybe R13 or R14 will make a much more compelling case to subscribe.

Besides, it's only an option. Nothing changes for perpetual users (apart from fewer new devices being a part of Reason).

[joeyluck]

Yeah that's all I'm pointing out. I guess some people here seem to think that those who do find value in Reason+ must be delusional.

Everybody keeps saying, "that's assuming subscribers want all the REs". Yeah I'm sure many of them do—if not all, most of them. The biggest appeal of the subscription is to have access to everything. As a subscriber you likely find the tools useful and/or you're just a fan of Reason Studios content, always excited for the next thing. If you realize you just want Reason and a few REs, then you might conclude that the subscription might not be for you.

I don't see why anybody would keep trying to argue against the real value of Reason+ only because they don't see the value for themselves. That's a personal opinion and preference. What we can look at is the comparison in cost—as in, this is what you get for this price. It's not a perceived value. I don't care if someone personally doesn't want Parsec 2 or Objekt, it's included with Reason+, it's in the shop and has a price, it must be considered in the value.

We aren't talking about Reason bundled with 3 months of Adobe and 20% off at Bed Bath and Beyond...and then trying to figure what value those things have to a Reason user lol. This is Reason and REs made by Reason Studios. It's pretty straight forward, very relevant, and looking at the comparison in costs makes sense. And like I said, you need to calculate for yourself based on what you have and what you want.

[avasopht]

Yeah that's all I'm pointing out. I guess some people here seem to think that those who do find value in Reason+ must be delusional.

When I subscribed to EWQL it was a very simple proposition:

• Hollywood-grade orchestral instruments (plus a decent selection of bread-and-butter sounds and some vocal synths)

I wanted access to the tools required for a task with a well-understood standard.

If that need ever arises, it's a no-brainer decision (although I do have a good set of orchestral instruments with key-switches, etc.).

R+, however, doesn't have the prior demand and prestige.

But it could get the prestige.

The rack is a powerful aesthetic and metaphor.



When it comes to the complete package of sounds, Reason shares a similar space as Ableton Live, FL Studio, and Bitwig (even though Ableton Live has a much more complete sound set). And I doubt either could take the world by storm with a subscription.

Studio One+ seems to have a similar range to Ableton Live, but at a higher level (with key switches being first-class citizens in the note editor).



EWQL is an easy no-brainer for a well-defined use case.

Studio One+ could be considered another one.

R+, however, doesn't seem to have the right proposition.



R+ has some extraordinary devices. It has diverse sounds covered.

I don't get the sense it has the right balance of broadness and depth.

It feels more like a cool thing I could spend my money on, but not something that is essential to what I'm doing.



On the other hand, maybe none of it matters. I barely use some of my larger purchases these days, and they cover a lot of bases.



Maybe if I focus on just outputting raw wave files, it would have more appeal.

[dakta]

Totally get why a lot of people prefer perpetual and tbh I'd probably go same route if I had a tonne of money sat about doing nothing, I would have to buy all the RE's if not all then most though as I do like being equipped, even though there are devices I barely if ever use. I wouldn't want to feel limited, now this is difficult where third party stuff is concerned (where does it end) but 'core' stuff would feel essential.

I don't really like to call subscription models renting though - it's a stickler point but no, we're licensing it just the same - we just pay a lot less and as a result the license has different terms - a months access. IIRC There's no contract as such so you can go a month, break a month, so whilst it does bill automatically I don't think there's anything beyond the hassle of processing it stopping you using it ad hoc as and when you want to either. You can pay more for a lifetime membership at your golf club, you own no more acreage than someone paying for the year. You never own it, you're just paying for access, so perpetual vs subscription are actually at a level there. You never 'own' reason, you just have access dictated by terms proportionate to money paid.

Another way of looking at things is, I'm sure all of us would love to have a studio at home with the hardware you like, set up just the way you want it, nothing borrowed, just there for you to use as you want it free to make and break and all that. Totally fine, needs a lot of outlay though so it's something not a lot of people can do without some sacrifice etc. Then there's musicians that might have a few instruments of their own but when they want to do something actually hire a studio wiht equipment, and sometimes there's more than they need or things work differently than the last time and that becomes part of the creative process. If they rented the studio to use as their own they'd waste a tonne of money but to do a short term project makes total financial sense with the advantage of being faced with gear they wouldn't normally have access to.

It's all horses for courses ultimately, I'm a staunch advocate of subscription models with the caveat if I had an unlimited budget I would go perpetual, but the budget needed would be unreasonable.

[ccsmith1]

I do not like the idea of a subscription service. I would rather purchase the product and choose to upgrade when and if I want to. I have subscribed to Adobe Create Cloud for many of years. Not all of the upgrades are worth the price (50+ dollars a month). I understand why companies are going with a subscription service. Currently I personally do not see a use for a monthly service, since I t may take multiples years before you see a substantial change in product. Just my 2 cents!

[avasopht]

I do not like the idea of a subscription service. I would rather purchase the product and choose to upgrade when and if I want to. I have subscribed to Adobe Create Cloud for many of years. Not all of the upgrades are worth the price (50+ dollars a month). I understand why companies are going with a subscription service. Currently I personally do not see a use for a monthly service, since I t may take multiples years before you see a substantial change in product. Just my 2 cents!

That's a lot cheaper than it used to cost with perpetual licenses.

For reference, Adobe Master Collection used to cost $7,988. That's the equivalent of subscribing at $50/mo for 13 years!

[scotward57]

Yeah that's all I'm pointing out. I guess some people here seem to think that those who do find value in Reason+ must be delusional.

Everybody keeps saying, "that's assuming subscribers want all the REs". Yeah I'm sure many of them do—if not all, most of them. The biggest appeal of the subscription is to have access to everything. As a subscriber you likely find the tools useful and/or you're just a fan of Reason Studios content, always excited for the next thing. If you realize you just want Reason and a few REs, then you might conclude that the subscription might not be for you.

I don't see why anybody would keep trying to argue against the real value of Reason+ only because they don't see the value for themselves. That's a personal opinion and preference. What we can look at is the comparison in cost—as in, this is what you get for this price. It's not a perceived value. I don't care if someone personally doesn't want Parsec 2 or Objekt, it's included with Reason+, it's in the shop and has a price, it must be considered in the value.

We aren't talking about Reason bundled with 3 months of Adobe and 20% off at Bed Bath and Beyond...and then trying to figure what value those things have to a Reason user lol. This is Reason and REs made by Reason Studios. It's pretty straight forward, very relevant, and looking at the comparison in costs makes sense. And like I said, you need to calculate for yourself based on what you have and what you want.

I received some great feedback in this thread! My decision to move back to perpetual probably had more to do with the timing of the sales going on. My sub was set to expire 12/31 and I had to choose between paying the full $199 for another year of R+ or the $99 upgrade from R11 suite to R12. I also already owned Friktion as well.

My only regret was losing Objekt, even though I wasn't really using it much lately. When it was first released, I messed around with a mic feeding into Objekt along with some drum brushes and sticks triggering the sound engine. I might swallow my pride and pay the $99 to get it.