One for the guitarists

[dakta]

Just a quick one really, and a very broad - open one at that - after years of *'d love to but ill never have the guts to do it* I've taken the plunge of ordering a beginners electric guitar kit and arranging some lessons with a local tutor

It's just to complement my homebrew composition and hopefully give me that ability to sort of jam to what I make, make things feel a bit more real as well as have a lot of fun (hopefully).

In order to practice in private I'm hoping to hook it up to my presonus 24c interface and listen to it through reason, to avoid having to kill everyone with my likely awful initial learning efforts - can anyone recommend any good RE, plugins or refills that might help get the best out of it? My tutor uses logic and has plugins that can basically give you a bit of all sorts, just wondered what our equivalent would be? Ratings of the softube RE's doesn't seem to be that positive on here.

And yes I'm starting right at the bottom here, guitar I went for upon a recommendation was a Harley Benton ST-20HSS, which seems an absolute steal for the money (I ain't expecting much considering what I paid) but online reviewers (and I've watched many) seem to be REALLY struggling to knock it, so for a starter it'l do I think

Any thoughts on anything that might help with the journey rack extension wise, or even general suggestions outside of the reason aspect welcome

best
Kris

[Jackjackdaw]

Don’t headphone up man, put it out into the world, warts and all! That’s part of the beauty of real instruments, they exist in the world and you have to own that, honestly you will get better quicker if you make some noise.
But when you have to because it’s late at night or whatever, the Kuassa amp Re.s are the best in Reason land. Neural DSP are excellent in VST land. If you are starting from scratch tone isn’t that important fire up the stock softtube and have a play. You have to learn what sounds bad to recognise what sounds good later on!

[motuscott]

Kuassa for the kill
Play it loud

[motuscott]

With modern technology you can achieve loud aggressive tones at low volumes.
But that ain't gonna flap the back of your pants
Nom Sain?

[jfrichards]

KUASSA... KUASSA... KUASSA. (especially the Matchlock amp set on Black Twin and Tweed Bass with middle EQ set on 7, then hit tab and turn the oversampling on the back to 8x) Set your EQ for the audio track HMF (mid frequencies) knob to 3 o'clock. Add a tiny touch of RV7000 reverb and stand back, Clapton, Hendrix, Van Halen, Page, and Beck will be standing next to you. Nothing fancy required, single held notes will suffice. That's what David Gilmore did half his solos.

[jfrichards]

Here's an example of a starting guitar setup, using a Squire Stratocaster and a Kuassa Matchlock amp

There are lots of good guitarists on here to help out. By the way, that Harley Benton is a really nice guitar ( I have the full range from $50 to $15,000).

[motuscott]

KUASSA... KUASSA... KUASSA. (especially the Matchlock amp set on Black Twin and Tweed Bass with middle EQ set on 7, then hit tab and turn the oversampling on the back to 8x) Set your EQ for the audio track HMF (mid frequencies) knob to 3 o'clock. Add a tiny touch of RV7000 reverb and stand back, Clapton, Hendrix, Van Halen, Page, and Beck will be standing next to you. Nothing fancy required, single held notes will suffice. That's what David Gilmore did half his solos.

What he said
Let us not forget Caliburn for those dulcet transistor tones, or VVV for the surprisingly clean tones.
I usta want a roomful of amps, but now I'm "shoot me" happy. Go ahead, no regerts.
The world of songwriting will barely feel it, trust me.

[dakta]

I did laugh at the suggestions to play it out loud - I appreciate the sentinment, but there's one hitch - the boss (you know, the queen of finances) thinks it went on more mundane activities...might be a bit of a giveaway

Plus, I'm not sure she's up to me doing a lister (people of the UK in my age group will know)



But seriously, thanks for the feedback. I had a look through the rack extension store last night and found a couple of things but didn't actually for some reason (pun intended) stumble across the KUASSA at all - its 38 big ones so if it's got such a following then I'll have it for sure is there anything else i'm likely to need?

Speaking with ym soon to be tutor, it does look like (and just to warn you im a layman) you can actually do reasonably well on a small budget, obviously there will be some room for 'you wont get an authentic sound without spending xxxxxxx on this' but it looks actually like we can do a lot with not a lot really.

I think even with this plugin i'll be just below £200 for the guitar, a (unlikely good quality) starter amp, strap, new strings, cables, bag etc - if you can get some good sounds with the plugin whats not to like? £200 doesnt get you very far in this world what have I been waiting for

[dakta]

Here's an example of a starting guitar setup, using a Squire Stratocaster and a Kuassa Matchlock amp

There are lots of good guitarists on here to help out. By the way, that Harley Benton is a really nice guitar ( I have the full range from $50 to $15,000).

Thanks, one put off was that I'd have to get a stackful of guitars for each sort of sound so I was a bit ... I appreciate that at some level there's going to be something to be said for splashing out on something more expensive, but looking at reviews of that guitar, hearing the commentary and feedback and actually listening to it through various plugins people use and amps etc, it actually looks like we're getting a very broad and reasonable quality (I am not saying you won't better it) but a reasonable quality for what really isn't a lot of outlay. Nobody on youtube at least really seems able to criticise the particilar guitar on any particular substantial ground, and that really endears to me because, once upon a time, going on this endevear could be backbreaking financially as well as time and practice etc. We do, in some ways, really live in fortunate times

[guitfnky]

I wouldn't worry too much about which plugins to get at this stage--the important part now is to familiarize yourself with the instrument and get some notes under those soon-to-be-callused fingers. you can get good results with just about any amp sim these days. even the stock Amp plugin in Reason is fine for this (not my favorite, but you can definitely get some good tones out of it with a bit of tweaking). if you do decide to spend a bit of $ on a third-party plugin, as others have mentioned, Kuassa is a great budget way to get started. I'd stick to something in the low-mid gain range, so as long as you're staying away from the high gain metal stuff for now, you should have plenty of variety in tones--good enough to keep you inspired to keep picking up the instrument as you learn.

good luck!

[Jackjackdaw]

Don’t worry about your guitar . It will be fine. You don’t need fancy rigs or need to obsess about tone. The internet is full of idiots spouting off to justify the ton of money they have spent on this and that or influencers shilling whatever has just come out. In your position you need to be worrying about putting your fingers in the right places. It will take a while and it might be tempting to start shopping for gear rather than practicing but if you get that itch , have a word with yourself. Set goals if you have to. Like I’m not buying that pedal until I can convincingly shred this solo for instance . Rather than , I need this pedal to be able to shred this solo. The pedal won’t play the solo for you, your fingers will.

Also, I’d rather be doing a Lister than doing a Rimmer. Lol

[dakta]

Thanks so much for the encouragement guys, and also for not knocking my budget choice

I really cannt wait for delivery

[guitfnky]

small budgets can be great. I remember when I first was daydreaming of getting a guitar...I had ZERO idea what made an instrument good. I was 'window shopping' from a JC Penney or Sears catalog or something--back when they used to send you these enormous phone-book-thick print catalogs. yes, they did sell a couple of guitars, for like $100 or 150, which I thought was super expensive at the time. I had no idea you really couldn't buy quality instruments from big-box stores, or how expensive they could get.

anyway, they had a couple of guitars, and one had a built-in speaker...and I was blown away at how cool that was. I thought, "why haven't I ever seen a guitarist play one with a built-in speaker? you need amplification, right?" seemed like a no-brainer to my dumb juvenile mind.

thankfully when my parents actually did cave and get me a guitar for my birthday a couple years later, they didn't get me one with a built-in speaker. it was the cheapest strat copy my dad could find, and the electronics were trash, but I didn't care. I got an awful sounding little amp, and ended up teaching myself mostly without the thing even plugged in. my imagination was my amp, and it suited me just fine.

that's probably why I don't really go too crazy over expensive 'real' tube amps and the like. I switched to using mainly amp modeling live very early on--used to use a Line 6 POD (1.0, and later POD 2), and gotten plenty of 'dig your tone' comments, despite decades of armchair tone snobs saying 'amp sims just don't sound as good as the "real thing" '. the tones you could get were good then, and have only gotten better, since then.

we live in lucky times, because great amp modeling can be had super-affordably, either in plugin format, or in a floor pedal, for much less than a Line 6 POD used to cost, back when they were the only game in town. and a 'cheap' $150 guitar today is usually still really quite good (far better than that first guitar of mine). the hardest part now is not getting distracted by all the new gear and software options out there. as others have alluded to, it's very easy to fall into the trap of 'I need this thing in order to become a better musician' as opposed to 'I need to become a better musician in order to justify buying this new thing'.

anyway, enough rambling...go play--and enjoy!

[strangers]

Like others have said, don't get caught up in plugin shopping and instead keep the focus on playing, learning the instrument and having fun. The plugin world is beyond saturated with options ranging from free to overpriced. Pick one that inspires you and/or produces the general sound you like. Don't overthink it.

Once you've got the basics down you can make anything sound good. The gear doesn't really matter at that point unless you want it to or let the Internet convince you otherwise.

With time you'll learn what you like. Don't box yourself in or let regurgitated internet "rules" cloud your mind. If it sounds good, it is good.

[strangers]

small budgets can be great. I remember when I first was daydreaming of getting a guitar...I had ZERO idea what made an instrument good. I was 'window shopping' from a JC Penney or Sears catalog or something--back when they used to send you these enormous phone-book-thick print catalogs. yes, they did sell a couple of guitars, for like $100 or 150, which I thought was super expensive at the time. I had no idea you really couldn't buy quality instruments from big-box stores, or how expensive they could get.

anyway, they had a couple of guitars, and one had a built-in speaker...and I was blown away at how cool that was. I thought, "why haven't I ever seen a guitarist play one with a built-in speaker? you need amplification, right?" seemed like a no-brainer to my dumb juvenile mind.

thankfully when my parents actually did cave and get me a guitar for my birthday a couple years later, they didn't get me one with a built-in speaker. it was the cheapest strat copy my dad could find, and the electronics were trash, but I didn't care. I got an awful sounding little amp, and ended up teaching myself mostly without the thing even plugged in. my imagination was my amp, and it suited me just fine.

that's probably why I don't really go too crazy over expensive 'real' tube amps and the like. I switched to using mainly amp modeling live very early on--used to use a Line 6 POD (1.0, and later POD 2), and gotten plenty of 'dig your tone' comments, despite decades of armchair tone snobs saying 'amp sims just don't sound as good as the "real thing" '. the tones you could get were good then, and have only gotten better, since then.

we live in lucky times, because great amp modeling can be had super-affordably, either in plugin format, or in a floor pedal, for much less than a Line 6 POD used to cost, back when they were the only game in town. and a 'cheap' $150 guitar today is usually still really quite good (far better than that first guitar of mine). the hardest part now is not getting distracted by all the new gear and software options out there. as others have alluded to, it's very easy to fall into the trap of 'I need this thing in order to become a better musician' as opposed to 'I need to become a better musician in order to justify buying this new thing'.

anyway, enough rambling...go play--and enjoy!

This was a good read and oddly familiar. My dad bought one of those guitars with a built in speaker and a little Fender amp. It was always off limits but I was drawn to guitar very young and always found time to sneak a few string slaps because my toy guitar wasn't cutting it. I got caught enough times trying to play it and that began my journey.

I fully remember that guitar along with it's absurdly large bridge. The 9V onboard speaker sounded great as a kid, mainly because it quickly distorted for instantaneous rocking. Funny that someone else remembers those guitars. That's a flashback.

[guitfnky]

This was a good read and oddly familiar. My dad bought one of those guitars with a built in speaker and a little Fender amp. It was always off limits but I was drawn to guitar very young and always found time to sneak a few string slaps because my toy guitar wasn't cutting it. I got caught enough times trying to play it and that began my journey.

I fully remember that guitar along with it's absurdly large bridge. The 9V onboard speaker sounded great as a kid, mainly because it quickly distorted for instantaneous rocking. Funny that someone else remembers those guitars. That's a flashback.

that's awesome--those moments are a big part of the excitement...you get the thing, and what you've been envisioning in your head suddenly becomes a real, tangible thing you get to explore and experience. it's a joyful thing.

and this just made me realize my first encounter with GAS was for that silly guitar-with-a-built-in-speaker, which is kinda hilarious.

[dakta]

Thanks everyone all your advice has been noted, if there's any other tips (even aside from the amp/rack extension side) feel free to throw them here.

Biggest fear is I've never been good with deftness of fingers, when I used to play organ as a kid I gave up because I would always mash the keys - hope we can sort of apply myself enough to get through that

DHL have told me it's getting delivered monday, - literally bouncing off the walls here

[dakta]

It's....heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeere

no idea where to start, in full hyperventilation mode excitement. Kristian, the one of the musical family with no talent whatsoever (lets ignore the 20 years DAW experience, that dont count in family terms), has an electric guitar, how did we get here?

days gunna be good!

[Jackjackdaw]

My first guitar was an Encore with a tiny body and a single hum bucker at the bridge, a kids starter sort of thing . I had it running through a Realistic (Tandy/RadioShack) amp that was entirely made of plastic. I wrote this song and recorded it on a four track tape recorder with a boss drum machine and played it in music class at school and felt like a total badass. Been chasing that buzz ever since.

[dakta]

Right let the thick questions begin - I am now getting set up for practice.

I am not only new to the guitar, I'm also new to recording in reason - because I've never frankly needed to record anything, I'm a rack extension synth patch man

I've got things set up, I think it works - I'm a little concerned at the volume from my presonus as I've had to turn it up quite a lot on both the guitar and my audi interface to hear it, but it is there - hopefully it's just me because due to the hour I'm not throwing it at it (I'm actually surprised at how loud the guitar is without being connected to anything, might not need it hooked up for practice ha)

But anyway, this might just be a way of 'its just how it is' but is there any way, without recording and playing back to preview it with line effects?

For example if I threw in a reverb, to hear the impact of it is there any way to feed the live audio in to it in realtime? Hope that makes sense because I just want to have a bit of a muckabout

[Jackjackdaw]

Page 144 of the manual will see you right.

[dakta]

Code: Select all

By default, monitoring is automatically enabled as soon as an audio track is record enabled.
This makes it possible to hear what you will be recording - before and during recording to disk.
• During playback of an audio track, monitoring is automatically disabled.
During playback, you will only hear the recorded signal - not any input signal.
q Note that you can manually activate or deactivate monitoring for a track by clicking the Monitor button.
The input signal is monitored after the Channel strip and Master Section in the Main Mixer which means that all mixer
parameters, including any Insert Effects, Dynamics etc., will also be applied to the monitored signal.

Ta. Off the face of it, what I'm expecting should be more or less the default activity from how I've read the above

I'll try manual selection of monitoring mode to see if it helps, but it looks like you should expect the insert effects should be applied by default (which isn't whats happening I just get the unprocessed input)

So for me monitoring does the inverse of whats described and it ignores the inserts etc until after its been recorded.

Cubase acts in the same way, so it's not a faulting but something I'm doing wrong.

[Jackjackdaw]

Have you got a direct monitoring knob on your interface? You sure you are hearing the daw output and not just a direct signal from the interface?

[dakta]

I'm not sure actually.

Just gone out and bought an M-audio m-track 2x2m for my workshop machine as I was a bit cramped at home so i'm going to lug it all down to the workshop as theres a bit of breathing space down there, see if I can figure it out. You could be right.

Just teething issues I'm sure

[ChulaCoola]

Don’t headphone up man, put it out into the world, warts and all! That’s part of the beauty of real instruments, they exist in the world and you have to own that, honestly you will get better quicker if you make some noise.
But when you have to because it’s late at night or whatever, the Kuassa amp Re.s are the best in Reason land. Neural DSP are excellent in VST land. If you are starting from scratch tone isn’t that important fire up the stock softtube and have a play. You have to learn what sounds bad to recognise what sounds good later on!

I second that.

As well, trying to hide your bad playing probably will put some crimp on your confidence, delaying your progress. I think that is a fancy way of saying, Be Bad, Be Bold, But Be A Bad Ass!

I re-picked up guitar recently. I decided I wasn't going to worry what my next door neighbors would think if I couldn't play good or not. I was going for it with the intent of getting better. And I did. Same when I try out guitars in the guitar store, if I feel self conscious, I will sound like crap. I won't like the guitar. I won't buy a good guitar. I won't play a good song well.