Should RS bring back Reason Lite?

[Chi-Individual]

Lately, since the release of Objekt, I’ve seen a few videos praising Objekt but speaking against Reason as a whole due to the initial investment needed to access the REs($500 for the DAW when not on sale, + cost of the RE) or subscription(which most seem to hate). The common conclusion is that it’s not worth the investment but if they could buy the RE’s separately that would be ideal. Some of these people have a bit of influence in the content realm. I’m wondering how much that is hindering RS. It just seems if there was once again an entry way into Reason more love would be given to the DAW/Company.

I could see them just making an empty shell like Kontakt and then making everything that’s stock in RE version(Europa, Thor, Grain, Maelstrom, Scream4, etc) along with the other REs and just letting people get all they want plus the RE’s from 3rd party devs solving some of the issue.

Thoughts?.

[Loque]

Discussed pretty often in the past.

Yea, could make sense to have a free RE container as a VST or a VST version of Reason for the half price or so... The container could be very limited, like only 1 RE inside or so...

A free RE container could allow them to sell stuff in VST market places as well. Nobody needs to know, that the "VST" is in reality a RE. I could see some good selling of Algorithm, Complex-1, Objekt or BV-X. Make some bundles and ppl are happy.

The problems could be patches using other RE or stock stuff, that means no Combinator patches would be possible...

[Ichooselife]

yeah this would be welcome
then they could get some good instruments in
and give it all away in a subscription model

all racks from all developers different tiers of sub

then they could leave the daw as a seperate income
update it will good features just for perpetual licences with 99 priced ups dates again


but i think they would need better orchestral scoring rack extensions to compete
as a container
only so many synths u can have there trying to fill the void with friktion and objekt
so they don’t need to have real orchestral plug ins

( you ain’t fooling no one if i want a cello sound i am not looking for synthy sounds
that ain’t gonna compare with spitfire audio or orchestral tools on native instruments

but they could they just need to split the things in two

seperate the rack from the daw so to speak

put the rack extensions into a free container
have them sub only

and seperate the make it a cool little closed music making program like before that supports vst

make reason cool again

[ambi]

I'm against the VST path as it would mean that less ressources are left to improve Reason for us Reason users.

They tried to go the VST route with Europa, right? It seems that did not pay off. The Reason+ business model on the other hand seems to pay off. For us older users subscriptions for software may seem strange but the younger generation is already getting used to it. Reason+'s value is very good. When it's discounted you pay around $60 a year with everything included. So even if you use Reason for 10 years or more you're in most cases much better off with Reason+ as all new upcoming products will be included and you get access to bonus content.

I think Reason Studios has a great product and version 12 made some fundamental improvements. Especially the HD rework tells me that they do not intend to abandon their main product but have long term plans to improve it.

But should Reason Studios really decide to reduce themselves to a VST company, they better put a lot of money into AI development and experts because I have the feeling that AI enhanced VST's will very soon make many VSTs on the market (including Objekt and Friktion) obsolete.

[Ichooselife]

I'm against the VST path as it would mean that less ressources are left to improve Reason for us Reason users.

They tried to go the VST route with Europa, right? It seems that did not pay off. The Reason+ business model on the other hand seems to pay off. For us older users subscriptions for software may seem strange but the younger generation is already getting used to it. Reason+'s value is very good. When it's discounted you pay around $60 a year with everything included. So even if you use Reason for 10 years or more you're in most cases much better off with Reason+ as all new upcoming products will be included and you get access to bonus content.

I think Reason Studios has a great product and version 12 made some fundamental improvements. Especially the HD rework tells me that they do not intend to abandon their main product but have long term plans to improve it.

But should Reason Studios really decide to reduce themselves to a VST company, they better put a lot of money into AI development and experts because I have the feeling that AI enhanced VST's will very soon make many VSTs on the market (including Objekt and Friktion) obsolete.

the reason rack is a vst
it just comes with the daw as a bonus

i think
they should be seperated

[Chi-Individual]

I'm against the VST path as it would mean that less ressources are left to improve Reason for us Reason users.

The thing about this is that RS is already a VST company. RRP is a VST. The problem I'm speaking of is they have an entire eco-system and store with Devs, who some only make RE's, that cannot be accessed without a $500 initial investment, and from what's been said, it's an initial investment in a DAW they'll never use. That's been the complaint on the videos I've seen. If they were to release a free version of the RRP then this would allow anyone to just go to the shop and buy Algoritm or Antidote or Nostromo, etc. Then that could lead to more revenue cause the RS store would be open to everyone. Just make it like Kontakt, maybe with the ID8 module, like Loque mentioned, and that's it, but make it completely free for that version and include nothing else.

[Ichooselife]

I'm against the VST path as it would mean that less ressources are left to improve Reason for us Reason users.

The thing about this is that RS is already a VST company. RRP is a VST. The problem I'm speaking of is they have an entire eco-system and store with Devs, who some only make RE's, that cannot be accessed without a $500 initial investment, and from what's been said, it's an initial investment in a DAW they'll never use. That's been the complaint on the videos I've seen. If they were to release a free version of the RRP then this would allow anyone to just go to the shop and buy Algoritm or Antidote or Nostromo, etc. Then that could lead to more revenue cause the RS store would be open to everyone. Just make it like Kontakt, maybe with the ID8 module, like Loque mentioned, and that's it, but make it completely free for that version and include nothing else.

i agree i would include a subtractor or something free
you give away something free you intice people in

but the daw is good man
it has auto tune pitch edit

they just need to tidy it up a bit and give it track freeze
but they should sell the daw separately for like £189

and £89 updates

it really is too much for what it is

it’s not as feature packed as cubase
but like you said if they was too seperate products

they could make it like a kontakty thing that everyone would love

but they need good orchestral and scoring plugins

and kontakt has soo many and what does
reason studios have ?

stringwerk and projectsam sampler ?

if they made it better more samplists would come
on board that’s what they need not re synth makers

they need good sampled instruments
pianos , strings , cellos etc
even ableton has some of that now

[ambi]

Just make it like Kontakt, maybe with the ID8 module, like Loque mentioned, and that's it, but make it completely free for that version and include nothing else.

You mention Kontakt but is Kontakt not doing the exact same thing?
There are some Kontakt instruments that I would like to buy but to run them I would need to buy the full version of Kontakt which costs $300.

[DaveyG]

"Should RS bring back Reason Lite?"
No, they should introduce Reason Free.

[Ichooselife]

Just make it like Kontakt, maybe with the ID8 module, like Loque mentioned, and that's it, but make it completely free for that version and include nothing else.

You mention Kontakt but is Kontakt not doing the exact same thing?
There are some Kontakt instruments that I would like to buy but to run them I would need to buy the full version of Kontakt which costs $300.

you do get a lot of kontakt player instruments though

and id8 isn’t on the same level sampler wise

[ambi]

You mention Kontakt but is Kontakt not doing the exact same thing?
There are some Kontakt instruments that I would like to buy but to run them I would need to buy the full version of Kontakt which costs $300.

you do get a lot of kontakt player instruments though

and id8 isn’t on the same level sampler wise

I know the Kontakt player but not a single instrument I ever was interested in was able to run in the Kontakt player. They all required the full version of Kontakt.

[Chi-Individual]

"Should RS bring back Reason Lite?"
No, they should introduce Reason Free.

That def would've been a way better title.

[Chi-Individual]

You mention Kontakt but is Kontakt not doing the exact same thing?
There are some Kontakt instruments that I would like to buy but to run them I would need to buy the full version of Kontakt which costs $300.

This is why I say it should be a free version. That would allow full functionality with the REs one would purchase. I believe if every single module available to Reason as a DAW, stock or RE, were just made available in RE format for a price, that same $500 that RS is missing out on because people don't want the DAW would be made up in purchases of REs, some who's sound can contend with the best in the VST space.

And trust I understand the sentiment. I got a spitfire piano library a few years back in a bundle and it's the only one of the bundle that required the full Kontakt instrument. I haven't used it yet and it's been like 3 years solely because I don't want to pay for Kontakt just to use 1 instrument. So just think how many people feel that way for both products, Kontakt and Reason. There's revenue being lost.The only difference it that it seems like Kontakt is tops in that area so they can take that stance of locking out certain instruments.

[SebAudio]

If there’s no such thing as a « free » RRP, it’s likely because RS’s business studies tell that it’s not worth it.
We’re all exited by Objekt but PM isn’t such a big interest in VST land that designing an entire business model around Objekt supposedly success outside of Reason seems very ambitious

[PhillipOrdonez]

Yes it should be a RRP version with everything turned off except for the re the user has license for. They already have the system in place. Have you tried using a re you don't own in your rack (after the trial is over)? Do the same with all devices except the one the user bought. Would that be too much work for the developing team? To hide the stock stuff? ‍♂️

[Billy+]

The container idea make sense to sell individual rack extensions to the VST AU AAX market.

however as for the actual Question :-

Reason Perpetual is now Reason Lite (only better) as you can buy new RE's

Reason Subscription is now Reason Suite How it should have been but with at least an option to buy not just rent (Unfortunately).

[selig]

Just came here to say several of us early testers (and RE developers!) of RRP immediately suggested a free version that runs purchased plugins many years ago.
I cannot believe no one at RS ever thought of this idea and explored the possibilities, and while everyone makes mistakes I also have to believe there was not enough evidence it was going to be a good idea in the long run or it would be something we’d have seen by now.

One of the concerns (not by RS but by other users) was how to prevent users from creating new accounts every 30 days and having free trials “forever” with this model. There may have been other concerns as well, this is the only one I distinctly remember. The alternative is to disallow free trials, but one appeal to this system was that it would allow new users to explore the eco system without cost and hopefully decide it was for them.

And there should definitely be a small collection of legacy instruments so you get the feel for how things connect (one device would not at all show off the beauty of “The Rack”). Maybe you could only trial ONE device at a time on this system? But that would still allow ‘gaming’ the system as I understand it.
Keep in mind I’m possibly forgetting something here from long past discussions, and if so hopefully someone will remind me!

That said, the “issue” is real, there are folks who would like to purchase an instrument or FX or two but don’t want to jump into the entire eco system just for that “privilege”!

[bxbrkrz]

If Reason is not your main tool, it's an amazing value via subscription. For a few months, or a year, you render everything for your main DAW, then you pause your sub.
I got Ableton standard, but all the cool toys I wanted to try was with Suite only. Compare the minimum cost for both.

Reason Free is a cool idea, but you get everything for less than watching Indiana Jones And The Dial of Destiny, The Flash, Blue Beetle, while eating stale popcorn.

[tobypearce]

My brother wants to make a little music. He's looking for something free so he can dabble.
We've occasionally worked together on my copy of Reason. He's got such a good sense of rhythm and musicality that I could immediately imagine him making some sketches and me working on them to make a full track.
I'd have bought him Reason Lite in a heartbeat and actually didn't realise they had stopped it until I searched just now.
The £10pm is just not appropriate in this case.
So I'm disappointed that Lite is not available. Is it?

[selig]

In addition to needing a Reason Free “container” plugin/product, the other complaint of subscriptions is what happens when your subscription expires and you can no longer open the file. This is solved by subscription services like Output Arcade, where even after your subscription expires you can still OPEN your files – you just can’t edit them any longer. This is equal to you printing all your subscription products to audio, without you having to print all your subscription products to audio!

[antic604]

My brother wants to make a little music. He's looking for something free so he can dabble.
We've occasionally worked together on my copy of Reason. He's got such a good sense of rhythm and musicality that I could immediately imagine him making some sketches and me working on them to make a full track.
I'd have bought him Reason Lite in a heartbeat and actually didn't realise they had stopped it until I searched just now.
The £10pm is just not appropriate in this case.
So I'm disappointed that Lite is not available. Is it?

Go on knobcloud.com and get him a 2nd hand license (Suite 11 might be the best bang for the buck).

Just check the feedback of the seller, completeness of item description, promptness of response, etc. - usual stuff; and pay by Paypal goods & services so that you're protected.

[DaveyG]

I'm sure there will be plenty of unused Reason Lite licences knocking around - they used to be bundled with various midi controllers and Plugin Boutique gave them free with every purchase for a month. I assume you'd still be able to register one but it would only be R11 Lite rather than R12 Lite.

[tobypearce]

That's great. If anyone on here has a license to spare then do let me know, and we can talk.

[joeyluck]

In addition to needing a Reason Free “container” plugin/product, the other complaint of subscriptions is what happens when your subscription expires and you can no longer open the file. This is solved by subscription services like Output Arcade, where even after your subscription expires you can still OPEN your files – you just can’t edit them any longer. This is equal to you printing all your subscription products to audio, without you having to print all your subscription products to audio!

I think then they would have to rework the demo mode, right? Because that would be the opposite of how it works now, which is the ability to work with Reason untimed and save projects, but you can't open them or export them without a license. Unless they can tie it into user login and make an exception for someone with an expired subscription?

[Steedus]

If they do bring something back like this it really should be compatible somehow with the full version - eg: a while back I was trying to get my friend in on using Reason so we could collab better.

So they got a version of Reason 11 Lite but I was frustrated to find there was no way I could save a file from the full version (using only devices included with Lite) that was compatible with Reaon Lite.

So in the end we still couldn't collab better than them using Logic, so that's where they stayed.