ReasonTalk.com

Which Reason Devices do you think would sell well as a standalone plugin? I think Objekt, Friktion, and maybe Algorhythm. Europa and Grain would be possible contenders but not sure how well they would compete.

Your thoughts?

Europa was for sale as a standalone vst for a while.

Well, they tried and failed with Europa as a VST. Outside of the small pond that is the Reason ecosystem the instruments are not so special and would struggle to stand out in a saturated market.

The Combinator (assuming it would work).

DaveyG wrote: ↑

29 Jun 2023

Well, they tried and failed with Europa as a VST. Outside of the small pond that is the Reason ecosystem the instruments are not so special and would struggle to stand out in a saturated market.

Agree. It's weird that Objekt isn't much talked about in other music forums. It's pretty good and unique.

BeatMap and Bassline Generator.

DaveyG wrote: ↑

29 Jun 2023

Well, they tried and failed with Europa as a VST. Outside of the small pond that is the Reason ecosystem the instruments are not so special and would struggle to stand out in a saturated market.

Maybe I missed the news but what do you mean it failed? They no longer offer it as a VST?

Personally I really like Europa. Probably my favorite softsynth outside of the Arturia collection.

Europa VST could have worked but it was probably overpriced for what it is.
If they'd shipped it out at something like $50 it might have competed well against stuff like Synthmaster , rather than go head to head with the big dogs like Serum.

Loque wrote: ↑

29 Jun 2023

It's weird that Objekt isn't much talked about in other music forums. It's pretty good and unique.

It isn't talked about much, but from what I'm seeing, where it is talked about it's like OMG THIS IS AMAZING HAVE YOU GUYS SEEN THIS OMG OMG

My completely unscientific observation is that Reason is still a minor player in the DAW world but its reputation has been growing steadily over the past couple of years, and Objekt in particular has really given it a push

Kong seems to be popular among people who have tried Reason. Also Scream.

wasn't Thor made into an ipad app?

Loque wrote: ↑

29 Jun 2023

Agree. It's weird that Objekt isn't much talked about in other music forums. It's pretty good and unique.

I think it's to be expected as the price tag for someone without a Reason license is just far too high.

Yeah it's easy to image the idea of something like Korg Gadget, where you can get it all in one program, OR as separate plugins. But honestly (and I think they've come to truely realise this), the magic comes from using the Rack as a whole, rather than any 1 individual piece.

Having said that though I do think there could be a place for Objekt as it's own device, but I haven't really looked at the PM market. I have and know of Chromaphone, but that's about it.

sublunar wrote: ↑

29 Jun 2023

DaveyG wrote: ↑

29 Jun 2023

Well, they tried and failed with Europa as a VST. Outside of the small pond that is the Reason ecosystem the instruments are not so special and would struggle to stand out in a saturated market.

Maybe I missed the news but what do you mean it failed? They no longer offer it as a VST? .

Yeah, they released it about 5 years ago. Intro price $99 rising to $149. Reason 10 owners got it for free.
Then they quietly retired it and haven't released anything else since. Pricing is one problem. Europa doesn't make the grade as a $149 VST synth but if they priced it at, say, $49 they would undermine their typical RE synth prices. The other daft thing was giving it to Reason 10 owners. A generous gift but it meant that they removed a bunch of people who might have bought it.

And I know some on here are excited by Objekt but to anyone outside of Reason it's just another synth that claims to offer something new and unique - the same claim made by many, many other VST synths and effects. It's a bit too easy to put on those RS-tinted spectacles. Sometimes I think the RS team genuinely believe that they have invented physical modelling, FM synthesis, sampling and, erm, whatever Objekt does, but in most cases they are playing catch-up and their REs are hitting limits imposed by their own SDK.

DaveyG wrote: ↑

30 Jun 2023

Sometimes I think the RS team genuinely believe that they have invented physical modelling, FM synthesis, sampling and, erm, whatever Objekt does, but in most cases they are playing catch-up and their REs are hitting limits imposed by their own SDK.

What exactly are the limitations of their SDK?

I suppose I’d buy grain if I had to. It’s got great stretch algorithms. Better if it had mimics advanced/preserve transients mode baked in.

ambi wrote: ↑

30 Jun 2023

What exactly are the limitations of their SDK?

Going much into detail on this would be something for another thread, but you can have a read on the RE SDK here: https://developer.reasonstudios.com/lea ... /tutorials

The main limitation is that the API is pretty strict in what instructions you can use as the code has to be portable (also for future not yet known architectures) and that there is a conceptual separation of UI and realtime/DSP code and variables and limits imposed on those as well. This leads to RE devs not being able to e.g. roll their own hardware/opengl accelerated graphics engine to do some 3D visualisation for example.

ambi wrote: ↑

30 Jun 2023

DaveyG wrote: ↑

30 Jun 2023

Sometimes I think the RS team genuinely believe that they have invented physical modelling, FM synthesis, sampling and, erm, whatever Objekt does, but in most cases they are playing catch-up and their REs are hitting limits imposed by their own SDK.

What exactly are the limitations of their SDK?

ambi wrote: ↑

30 Jun 2023

DaveyG wrote: ↑

30 Jun 2023

Sometimes I think the RS team genuinely believe that they have invented physical modelling, FM synthesis, sampling and, erm, whatever Objekt does, but in most cases they are playing catch-up and their REs are hitting limits imposed by their own SDK.

What exactly are the limitations of their SDK?

Well a glaring one is that the SDK doesn't support their own REX/RX2 file format so you can't load sliced audio into Mimic, their audio slicing sampler. The built-in devices in Reason can handle REX files but an RE cannot and Mimic is an RE. They could fix that but they haven't. There are plenty of other examples on this forum of devs wanting to do something but being thwarted by the shortcomings of the SDK.

@jam-s & @DaveyG
Thanks. That's very interesting information for me.

scotward57 wrote: ↑

29 Jun 2023

Which Reason Devices do you think would sell well as a standalone plugin? I think Objekt, Friktion, and maybe Algorhythm. Europa and Grain would be possible contenders but not sure how well they would compete.

Your thoughts?

Yeah I think these 1st. I think there niche is a less saturated area of the market. They are unique and and useful enough IHMO.

DaveyG wrote: ↑

30 Jun 2023

ambi wrote: ↑

30 Jun 2023

What exactly are the limitations of their SDK?

Well a glaring one is that the SDK doesn't support their own REX/RX2 file format so you can't load sliced audio into Mimic, their audio slicing sampler. The built-in devices in Reason can handle REX files but an RE cannot and Mimic is an RE. They could fix that but they haven't. There are plenty of other examples on this forum of devs wanting to do something but being thwarted by the shortcomings of the SDK.

I think that is bizarre, especially considering how the former CEO proclaimed with such verve and confidence how much better rack extensions are as a format than VST’s. What are Reason studios waiting for? Why don’t they just update the SDK already.? Have they basically abandoned their own format?

TheGodOfRainbows wrote: ↑

02 Jul 2023

DaveyG wrote: ↑

30 Jun 2023

Well a glaring one is that the SDK doesn't support their own REX/RX2 file format so you can't load sliced audio into Mimic, their audio slicing sampler. The built-in devices in Reason can handle REX files but an RE cannot and Mimic is an RE. They could fix that but they haven't. There are plenty of other examples on this forum of devs wanting to do something but being thwarted by the shortcomings of the SDK.

I think that is bizarre, especially considering how the former CEO proclaimed with such verve and confidence how much better rack extensions are as a format than VST’s. What are Reason studios waiting for? Why don’t they just update the SDK already.? Have they basically abandoned their own format?

I don't think so. It is rather related to compatibility do new features must be introduced carefully.
VST2 and VST3 are not compatible and took many years until the successor came out. And I am pretty sure nobody of us want our RE stop working if a new SDK comes out.

Scream 4 In Phase Edition VST $39

bxbrkrz wrote: ↑

02 Jul 2023

Scream 4 In Phase Edition VST $39

ha ha ha, it would be nice if that got addressed in an update.
I've said it so many times, but I'll repeat it: I would LOVE it if RS would give all the legacy devices a sorely needed update.