ReasonTalk.com

Years ago, I used Apple Logic for songwriting, but some underground friends were using Propellerhead illegally and they recommended it highly. Hundreds of people around San Francisco were circulating stolen user codes so I tried one out. I fell in love with the seriously creative side. Logic was always affecting my compositions in a commercial way. Logic always sounded like I needed radio-style singers. I quickly dropped Logic altogether and have been composing with Reason for 20 years. I bought a legitimate copy of Reason 3 when it came out and have spent $2000 on it so far, not regretting it for one second. It turns out that Reason is extremely popular among a large number of producers and artists, especially hip hop people. I hope this is true because I want Reason to continue. And this reasontalk website is a sign that it will.

When was the last time you used Logic?
There has been a massive improvement to it over the years relative to ease of use and the user interface.

Both are fantastic DAWs. Both capable of delivering fully produced professional tracks.

In terms of just getting things going I still find Reason the most immediate and faster but I prefer the work flow of Logic and of course you can use Reason plugs in Logic which is a huge win.

We are lucky to have these tools.

Logic has improved immensely in the last twenty years. I was like you, a faithful Logic user (actually going all the way back to Notator). Then when I discovered Reason, I switched over pretty quickly and completely. However, in recent years I've been feeling the limitations on Reason's workflow more and more. I've gravitated back to Logic as my main DAW plus Reason in the form of the RRP - the combination works beautifully. The RRP can occupy a MIDI FX slot (e.g. for Players), an INPUT slot (i.e. instruments), or an AUDIO FX slot (i.e. effects). Working this way made me realize that what I really like most about Reason is the Rack. Reason's Sequencer is a bit of a toy, while the Mixer is overkill. Logic simply offers so much more in terms of workflow; useful features, not esoteric, and many of those features that Reason users have been asking for for years. Logic's extensive list (literally hundreds) of user-definable keyboard shortcuts is just one example.

If I had a Mac I would all over the Logic/Reason combo in an instant.

The Apple tax keeps me from using Logic. If I actually used a Mac (or had a newer iPad Pro), I'd certainly give Logic a spin. That said, I already have Ableton Live which speaks to my style of music production, and Logic's traditional linear sequencer is just more of the same DAW, IMHO. Unless Logic has Clip launching now? No clue.

Thanks for the insight my friends. I will try out the newer Logic. GarageBand came with my new Mac mini, and that works way better than decades ago.

EnochLight wrote: ↑

02 Jun 2023

The Apple tax keeps me from using Logic. If I actually used a Mac (or had a newer iPad Pro), I'd certainly give Logic a spin. That said, I already have Ableton Live which speaks to my style of music production, and Logic's traditional linear sequencer is just more of the same DAW, IMHO. Unless Logic has Clip launching now? No clue.

Yes it does as of 3 years ago

EnochLight wrote: ↑

02 Jun 2023

Unless Logic has Clip launching now?

It's had it for a couple of years. I've no idea how it compares with Live's Session view though.
But I can't justify the price of a Mac, even though I could afford it. And that price list for the memory and disk space upgrades!!!

Shoot I have Logic too and need to learn how to use it lol

joeyluck wrote: ↑

02 Jun 2023

EnochLight wrote: ↑

02 Jun 2023

That said, I already have Ableton Live which speaks to my style of music production, and Logic's traditional linear sequencer is just more of the same DAW, IMHO. Unless Logic has Clip launching now? No clue.

Yes it does as of 3 years ago

Sweet. How does it compare to Ableton Live's Session view?

EnochLight wrote: ↑

02 Jun 2023

joeyluck wrote: ↑

02 Jun 2023

Yes it does as of 3 years ago

Sweet. How does it compare to Ableton Live's Session view?

I don't use either, so I don't know
Not really my thing, but there's lots of videos.

EnochLight wrote: ↑

02 Jun 2023

The Apple tax keeps me from using Logic. If I actually used a Mac (or had a newer iPad Pro), I'd certainly give Logic a spin. That said, I already have Ableton Live which speaks to my style of music production, and Logic's traditional linear sequencer is just more of the same DAW, IMHO. Unless Logic has Clip launching now? No clue.

The Apple tax is worth it. The M1 Macs are frankly astonishing. Amazing performance for the money.

My M1 Max is the fastest computer I’ve ever owned. I absolutely hate Apple’s extortion prices but it’s kinda worth it compared to all the issues I had on PCs. Apple runs so smooth.

Last Alternative wrote: ↑

02 Jun 2023

My M1 Max is the fastest computer I’ve ever owned. I absolutely hate Apple’s extortion prices but it’s kinda worth it compared to all the issues I had on PCs. Apple runs so smooth.

100% concur, and it looks like we both got the same custom build. Expensive as hell, but rock solid, and I expect it to last a good long while.

Some people on this forum are still using 10+ year old systems, and this machine feels like it could be one of those if I really had to.

I've never seen the Mac prices as being overpriced. The price difference between PC and Mac is not that much. I've actually seen it the other way around, whereas PCs are overcharging for crap.

This is not like the difference between Behringer and Teenage Engineering prices The Apple prices makes sense. My computer is the heart of my music making setup. It runs everything. People have single hardware synths that cost more than my computer. The damn OP-1 Field costs more than my computer lol

I got my Mac mini M2 with 500 GB SSD at Costco for $690 and my Reason 12 upgrade at Sweetwater for $120. Now I'm screaming between galaxies pulled by 12 Objekts.

I've been happily paying the "Apple tax" since I bought a Mac IIci in 1991. Every Mac I've owned has had smooth, reliable operation, easy integration with audio and MIDI, and a UX that to this day is more attractive than the corporate CNN style of Windows. Even when Windows tries its best to look like OSX, they can't pull it off.

On average, I've bought a new Mac every 5 years. On average, I've paid about $400/yr to have that Mac. That's $33/month for a powerful, versatile, appealing tool that gives me hours of pleasure daily and virtually no grief, less than the cost of a decent meal out. If PCs are cheaper, more power to them, but it's pretty tough to justify an argument based on cost. I'll happily continue to pay the "Apple tax".

I had Logic 2 when it was windows. I never got into the Apple Mac thing cause it seemed to much like the Commodore 64/128 where you mount the drives and stuff, but Windows just loaded everything at startup. Then I discovered Reason 1...
Yeah I know, it was so last century. lol

joeyluck wrote: ↑

02 Jun 2023

I've never seen the Mac prices as being overpriced. The price difference between PC and Mac is not that much. I've actually seen it the other way around, whereas PCs are overcharging for crap.

In what universe has this ever been true?

It's always been trivial to get the same spec as a Mac for anywhere between 50-65% of the price. And Apple have been overcharging for RAM and HDD upgrades for decades now. As in, when you select 8 GB instead of 4 GB, the price increase has always been 2-3x the cost of the difference between the real cost of the RAM, and more than the cost of just buying the 8GB of RAM, driving to the store to pick it up in a limo, and eating an overpriced meal for the fun of it.

avasopht wrote: ↑

03 Jun 2023

joeyluck wrote: ↑

02 Jun 2023

I've never seen the Mac prices as being overpriced. The price difference between PC and Mac is not that much. I've actually seen it the other way around, whereas PCs are overcharging for crap.

In what universe has this ever been true?

It must be in this universe. Sometimes Joey seems to be from a different planet but I'm pretty sure it's in the same universe as us.

A Logic feature i've seen in action recently is Varispeed. Something that Logic does really good and many other DAWs doesn't have it. Slow down the whole song with a speed control knob like in a tape machine, so you can record melodies with your midi keyboard, when you're in a genre where the bpm is high and you're a not so talented keyboard player. Also playing the song slower with a different pitch gives you sometimes new ideas. I did manually in the past, export the song in 44100 hz and play it with an audio editor in 32000 hz.

Here an example:


Would be nice, when Reason would have this, too.

It is also worth pointing out that I bought Logic many years ago, and there has never been a charge for any new version... and each new version comes with a mile long list of improvements. I have not used it as much as Reason so in the end it is hard for me to use it, but I should probably get back to it because indeed, the strength of Reason is the rack...

joeyluck wrote: ↑

02 Jun 2023

I've never seen the Mac prices as being overpriced. The price difference between PC and Mac is not that much. I've actually seen it the other way around, whereas PCs are overcharging for crap.

You been smoking banana peels, joey?

avasopht wrote: ↑

03 Jun 2023

In what universe has this ever been true?

It's always been trivial to get the same spec as a Mac for anywhere between 50-65% of the price. And Apple have been overcharging for RAM and HDD upgrades for decades now. As in, when you select 8 GB instead of 4 GB, the price increase has always been 2-3x the cost of the difference between the real cost of the RAM, and more than the cost of just buying the 8GB of RAM, driving to the store to pick it up in a limo, and eating an overpriced meal for the fun of it.

^^ THIS ^^

Full disclosure: I have owned Macs in the past, and my entire household is currently (mostly) Apple, aside from some lingering Echo Dots I'm trying to get rid of and 3 custom-built PC's (that were all - at the time of the build - astronomically less expensive than a similar/equivalent spec'd Mac). I mean, I drink the Apple kool-aide as well, Joey - but dude... come on..

I recently bought a custom pc with 64gb ram , the latest i7 Intel processor and 4 ssd drives for £1500. And I can increase that ram to 128gb and swap out the cpu in a few years if I need to. I like Apple stuff but it is definitely more expensive!

EnochLight wrote: ↑

03 Jun 2023

joeyluck wrote: ↑

02 Jun 2023

I've never seen the Mac prices as being overpriced. The price difference between PC and Mac is not that much. I've actually seen it the other way around, whereas PCs are overcharging for crap.

You been smoking banana peels, joey?

avasopht wrote: ↑

03 Jun 2023

In what universe has this ever been true?

It's always been trivial to get the same spec as a Mac for anywhere between 50-65% of the price. And Apple have been overcharging for RAM and HDD upgrades for decades now. As in, when you select 8 GB instead of 4 GB, the price increase has always been 2-3x the cost of the difference between the real cost of the RAM, and more than the cost of just buying the 8GB of RAM, driving to the store to pick it up in a limo, and eating an overpriced meal for the fun of it.

^^ THIS ^^

Full disclosure: I have owned Macs in the past, and my entire household is currently (mostly) Apple, aside from some lingering Echo Dots I'm trying to get rid of and 3 custom-built PC's (that were all - at the time of the build - astronomically less expensive than a similar/equivalent spec'd Mac). I mean, I drink the Apple kool-aide as well, Joey - but dude... come on..

Hey I said what I said and I stand by it

Apple costs more, but you're paying for better hardware and experience and the prices are not Teenage Engineering level of ridiculousness. You're not paying a higher price for the same thing. People need to stop with that nonsense. PC stuff is cheap and less reliable.

And then people go and compare basic numbers and components like, "Hey this guitar has 2 pickups and 6 strings for a lower price". I guess you saved money and got the "same thing"

[insert meme here] Kids: "Can we get a Mac?" Mom: "We've got a Mac at home" (shows picture of a PC)

I'll say it again, my computer is the heart of my music making setup. The difference of a few hundred dollars for better hardware, better software and reliability, is justified for me. People are still paying more for single hardware synths than I pay for my computer that runs everything that I upgrade once every 10 years or so. I do not see it as overpriced. You get what you pay for.