Why is Reason Lacking in so many popular DAW lists for 3rd party products

[bxbrkrz]

Not exclusive. No then

I get it But that fact should have no influence over Reason 3rd party support or mention. Plenty people have Studio One and Logic and enjoy great support for both for example.

We don't know why 3rd party support is the way it is. We don't have the data, so the thread [d]evolves into a guessing game, and a wish list. When you read people beta testing the product and their very very basic suggestions were not implemented over the decades.... Only RS has the key to their success, or failure.

Reminder: we are here because we love Reason, but we are not getting any younger

[fullforce]

Reminder: we are here because we love Reason, but we are not getting any younger

Neither are the dudes who operate Reason. I met Matthias years ago in Belgium, when he was still very enthousiastic and not a product manager yet. I still don't think that should be his job. He's just not that kind of guy. But he is, and that is I think one of the Reasons (hah!) that Reason isn't going anywhere.

[huggermugger]

Why is Reason missing in many popular DAW lists? Easy. Because Reason isn't a DAW. It's LEGO for beatmaking that pretends to be a legitimate digital audio workstation. It lacks so many features that have been standard in DAWs for years that it can't possibly catch up now. Instead, they release bug-ridden updates and new toys now and then to appease their user-base.

[Billy+]

Why is Reason missing in many popular DAW lists? Easy. Because Reason isn't a DAW. It's LEGO for beatmaking that pretends to be a legitimate digital audio workstation. It lacks so many features that have been standard in DAWs for years that it can't possibly catch up now. Instead, they release bug-ridden updates and new toys now and then to appease their user-base.

oooooooh it's not just me

[reasonosaer]

Yeah I use Serato Sample which apparently hasn't been tested to work on reason per serato customer support but works anyway...I think it's interesting that you see FL studio listed everywhere which looks like a childs toy for mouse clip producers.

i remember a hs classmate making a remix of the NES mario bros theme in FL in the second half of the 90s. FL was competing mostly with Reason and Acid who also had a rex type loop file format at that point iirc. it was seen as a toy by many people for many years for many of the same reasons Reason is still seen as a toy by many people today.

but Imageline took the opposite approach to Propellerheads in terms of their business model and approach to customer engagement. people that bought FL 20-25 years ago for whatever it cost back then own the current version of FL Studio without spending a penny since then even if most of them don't know it because they're too worried about how they're going to pay their kids' college tution to realize its not a problem cause they can just produce a banger in the latest version of FL Studio as long as they remember the password for the hotmail address they used for their Imageline account. i'm assuming Imagineline's free updates model goes back to the beginning, I'm not looking that up, you get the point. and they've actually been steering development based on customer feedback almost that long. maybe not the the degree that Reaper and Bitwig do now, but I doubt many of their new users these days quickly realize that they can't use the program seriously without a dozen basic missing features for the sequencer like so many people do with Reason.

the funny part is a lot of the younger producers that give Reason a try for the nice instruments and back-in-style skeuomorphism and modularity then end up walking away within weeks when they realize it actually is still a toy have no idea that some of those deal breaker feature requests are almost literally as old as they are. it's not too late for the banker bros who just wanna flip RS successfully to order their nerd bots to copy some of the mind blowing midi and audio editing tech from 2005 era Logic and Cubase respectively, give the ssl and m-class dsp a coat of varnish, teach those purdy lil players to talk to each other, and viola! they'll call you geniuses and you can censor this comment or delete the whole forum from the internet if necessary to make sure no one knows it wasn't all your idea.

[wendylou]

Yeah, I noticed this recently, too, after buying Stream Deck XL to control Reason. I picked up the "Universal MIDI Controller" suite from Sideshowfx to set up the controls quickly only to discover every major DAW was represented except for Reason! I asked them to consider including Reason controls, but so far nothing. It really drove this point home that Reason is in the backwaters of popularity.

[Propellerhands]

Could be unpopular opinion: Reason was/is too complicated for novices especially, so many people who hate it or think it's "not a proper DAW" feel this way so based on their poor experience with it. Either way, who cares, it's a fricking good software and it works well.

[jlgrimes]

Reason is of it´s possibilites the avantgarde DAW and it was developed by a small team, as well they don´t make a big hussle about puplic relations s..t in the past. So if fruityloops is a toy compared and abletons or it´s latest "offtopic release" bitwig is a dedicated and well pulic announced electronic music clip launcher tool... than reason is the specialist companion, often used by popular artist, who aren´t interessted to talk about their producings technics and secrets. For example Stephan Bodzin using it with a personalized controller beside a Moog Sub 37 at videos at popular mountain station raveshows, it´s not the big thing to copy the sound of him with Reasonstudio synths. synapse legend, did he talk about, or is Reason related to him somewhere NO.

I think reason is a secret weapon for a lot of musicians, that´s one cicumstance why nobody speaks about it, because Reason is to nice, to speak about and to massive to hype it, otherwise it could become a truly competitor for bigger brands and their more classical appearing stuff or weak software instruments

but do you wana know the truth, I don´t know it :masksmiley:

Actually though in the 2000s when Reason came out with Remote, it was heavily supported by 3rd Party companies. I wouldn't necessarily consider Reason Avant Garde like Reaper, LMMS, ot Waveform. Reason's foundation is synths so it would make perfect sense to have dedicated 3rd party controllers.


My guess is it might be easier to support other DAWS or that other DAWS market share became much higher and it makes sense to put all of their time in those DAWS.

[mimidancer]

Could be unpopular opinion: Reason was/is too complicated for novices especially, so many people who hate it or think it's "not a proper DAW" feel this way so based on their poor experience with it. Either way, who cares, it's a fricking good software and it works well.

I agree with you. As for development Reason has what 50 employees? Abelton has over 350. That means Reason Studios has to pick and choose what gets done. It is easy to find inspiration in Reason. I like to create there.

[jam-s]

Why is Reason missing in many popular DAW lists? Easy. Because Reason isn't a DAW. It's LEGO for beatmaking that pretends to be a legitimate digital audio workstation. It lacks so many features that have been standard in DAWs for years that it can't possibly catch up now. Instead, they release bug-ridden updates and new toys now and then to appease their user-base.

You definition of DAW seems to be quite a bit off.

A digital audio workstation (DAW) is an electronic device or application software used for recording, editing and producing audio files. DAWs come in a wide variety of configurations from a single software program on a laptop, to an integrated stand-alone unit, all the way to a highly complex configuration of numerous components controlled by a central computer. Regardless of configuration, modern DAWs have a central interface that allows the user to alter and mix multiple recordings and tracks into a final produced piece.[1]

Heck, even audacity can be called a DAW. So as your premise seems to be false the rest of the argument is bogus according to standard logic.

[fullforce]

I been wondering for a long time now why when I see 3rd party products that support DAWs, Reason is rarely on the list. Get a new keyboard they list Logic, Studio One, Cubase etc. but no Reason. Join a course to learn something like Scaler 2 and see so many DAWs listed but no Reason. Many times I see a list of DAWs and look for Reason and feel a bit disappointed that it's not there (not all the time but most). It's still a very capable music making software that many of us love. It's not like Reason is a nobody on the block. So why the lack of Reason showing up with so many 3rd party products? Is it the lack of a department at Reason Studios networking with these companies? Or is it just the perception of Reason by the greater music community?

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7531253&

[fullforce]

https://reasonstudios.com/

What DAW do you see on their main landing page? And not just once. I got their clear message. Reason is a fantastic plugin...
I have to say that ultra flat minimalistic and monochromic look... I used to hate it. Not anymore.

Also big thanks to livethemes.co

That is so sad.

reason second.png (8.44 KiB) Viewed 2699 times

Look at it. Standalone DAW is the SECOND place.

[fullforce]

Why is Reason missing in many popular DAW lists? Easy. Because Reason isn't a DAW. It's LEGO for beatmaking that pretends to be a legitimate digital audio workstation. It lacks so many features that have been standard in DAWs for years that it can't possibly catch up now. Instead, they release bug-ridden updates and new toys now and then to appease their user-base.

It is and has been a DAW since the introduction of Record. However, PH (RS) stubbornness to update (or better yet revamp) the sequencer is what's holding them back.

[iTrensharo]

Because developers aren't testing on it specifically, so they aren't going to mention it.

The user base is probably too small for them to bother investing the resources to do so.

Developers will only list the DAWs that they actually test their product in. They won't just list random DAWs only to deal wiht support inquiries form users who saw it and assumed it means it was tested and verified to work bug-free. We know how finicky some VST plug-ins can be

[robussc]

That is so sad.

reason second.png

Look at it. Standalone DAW is the SECOND place.

The RRP reachable market is massive compared to trying to win share in the DAW market. And now that some DAWs are free to start with (see ProTools, Garageband etc) it’s tough to get a foothold. Sadly I think the Sequencer side of things is really for us legacy users and that’s why it gets so little love.

[crimsonwarlock]

I'm currently redoing older tracks I made before with Reaper. This means a lot of editing imported MIDI and audio clips in Reason. So far, this has been a breeze in comparison with Reaper. The MIDI editor is leaps and bounds beyond the Reaper one. So, it eludes me what people think is really missing here. Of course, there are workflow tools that would enhance it. I miss markers in the sequencer myself (even though I use blocks intensively). But the sequencer in its current state is a very capable environment, and I can't see anything that is a real show-stopper to producing very professional tracks with it. Reason might not cater to your preferred workflow, but many other DAWs probably won't either.

[fullforce]

I'm currently redoing older tracks I made before with Reaper. This means a lot of editing imported MIDI and audio clips in Reason. So far, this has been a breeze in comparison with Reaper. The MIDI editor is leaps and bounds beyond the Reaper one.

I would love to see a video of this with some examples.

[crimsonwarlock]

I'm currently redoing older tracks I made before with Reaper. This means a lot of editing imported MIDI and audio clips in Reason. So far, this has been a breeze in comparison with Reaper. The MIDI editor is leaps and bounds beyond the Reaper one.

I would love to see a video of this with some examples.

I would love to do a video on this, but I'm afraid those editing sessions are not very entertaining. Each individual part of a track takes several hours as I'm basically redoing the complete arrangement of these tracks, recreating many previously played parts from the existing MIDI data. For example, I worked many hours yesterday to build better bass guitar parts from the original track. It involved constructing a usable bass part with Bassline Generator, dropping the generated part to MIDI notes. Then editing this at the note level and after that using Pattern Mutator to generate many small variations of the part. And finally selecting useful parts and constructing the complete bass parts for the whole song. This way of working is close to impossible in Reaper (or at least extremely convoluted), and my guess is in most other DAWs.

[fullforce]

I would love to do a video on this, but I'm afraid those editing sessions are not very entertaining. Each individual part of a track takes several hours as I'm basically redoing the complete arrangement of these tracks, recreating many previously played parts from the existing MIDI data. For example, I worked many hours yesterday to build better bass guitar parts from the original track. It involved constructing a usable bass part with Bassline Generator, dropping the generated part to MIDI notes. Then editing this at the note level and after that using Pattern Mutator to generate many small variations of the part. And finally selecting useful parts and constructing the complete bass parts for the whole song. This way of working is close to impossible in Reaper (or at least extremely convoluted), and my guess is in most other DAWs.

OK so you're basically using RE's to write the track for you.

[bxbrkrz]

LOL... This thread is so beyond the first post now

[QVprod]

I'm currently redoing older tracks I made before with Reaper. This means a lot of editing imported MIDI and audio clips in Reason. So far, this has been a breeze in comparison with Reaper. The MIDI editor is leaps and bounds beyond the Reaper one. So, it eludes me what people think is really missing here.

Those who play midi into the sequencer are just fine for the most part. It does the jobs as well as any other DAW imo. From what I’ve seen it’s mostly people who want other features, step input, built in step sequencer, Chord track…etc… I suppose those who are inputing by hand.

Personally I think it’s fine enough for everything except audio and I guess automation could be a bit cleaner. I doubt the sequencer is the primary thing that kept people out of the Reason DAW.

[Quarmat]

I only use Reason DAW.

And to me it's just a matter of marketing and product placement (like pretty much everything these days)

What makes the difference in the sales of one DAW over another is not the established producers or hobbyists who know their business or even famous artists: it is the kids, the wannabe producers who want to create music for their teenage milieu who have dreams of filling clubs while they are at the console playing their bangers.

And a novice kid (just look at subreddits like EDMproduction: 'how do I start producing EDM? Which DAW is better?") doesn't have the same needs we do, of workflow improvements in the sequencer and nuances like that. A kid wants to quickly produce a beat that sounds powerful, fat and LOUD.

We live in an era (Tiktok, Instagram, YouTube) where video (and especially the short video) dominates unchallenged. Reason compared to any other DAW has a huge visual potential: the rack is an integral part of the workflow, I'd say at least 50%, and the rack with its native devices and REs is visually incomparably more fascinating and attractive than any other DAW.

If one does a quick scan of producers' videos, they are visually boring: 90% are captures of Live's sequencer with unintelligible midi lines or audio tracks on top. You don't even really understand what's playing what. I mean: there are VSTs with spectacular visual interfaces, but often these aren't even captured and above all they lack the interlaced organicity of the devices in Reason (and let's not forget the back of the Rack!).

RS should concentrate its investments in social promotion by finding producers who can enhance their videos with the spectacular visual presence of the Rack or (since there are musicians in RS capable of creating modern and powerful tracks, Matthias above all) create their own, have them edited by young and edgy videomakers, publish them with unofficial profiles and promote them massively.

All it takes is one viral video and Reason will start grinding out numbers.

[motuscott]

LOL... This thread is so beyond the first post now

Beam me up Jim. These animals have no conception of a salad fork

[moalla]

NEIN NEIN NEIN not to much updates for the sequencer, or IT MUST HAVE A SWITCH FOR BASIC AND ADVANCED FUNCTIONS/GUI, THAN A BIGGER UPDATE MIGHT BE OKAY; OTHERWISE THAT COULD BE A SIMPLICITY KILLER, WHAT`S THE BIGGEST KILLER ARGUMENT TO VOTE FOR REASON!!!

CLOSE THE DISCUSSION IT`s getting more and more weird or reasoners are tired gn8

[huggermugger]

LOL... This thread is so beyond the first post now

Brilliant! LOL