Heroes by Bowie on reason
Reason 12 | Win 11 | gribbly.org | https://spoti.fi/39m1izC
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AnotherMathias
- Posts: 213
- Joined: 29 Sep 2020
If you're aiming to sound as close to the original as possible, you're in for quite a challenge!
It's hard to pick out individual sounds clearly, with the Eno/Visconti production being such a mushy wall of sound.
I hear essentially no synths on the song, with the exception of a whoosh noise/VCF sound helicopter FX, the LFO not in sync with the beat. Probably an EMS VCS3, Brian Eno was known to use those a lot.
The drums are pretty basic dry acoustic ones. A separately recorded ride cymbal comes in halfway through, and reverby tambourine a bit after that.
The bass, I think, is a regular woofy electric bass, with maybe some phaser on it.
The rhythmic chords are possibly an acoustic piano. An organ (Farfisa?) joins in with a single related chord towards the end.
The rest are just 5-10 layers of guitar, many of them long echo-y feedback guitars from Robert Fripp. Initially I thought it could be some Ebow guitar, but apparently that wasn't sold until a year later.
So unless you can play guitar well, and can crank an amp up to feedback indefinitely, it's unlikely that you can get all that close, sound-wise!
It's hard to pick out individual sounds clearly, with the Eno/Visconti production being such a mushy wall of sound.
I hear essentially no synths on the song, with the exception of a whoosh noise/VCF sound helicopter FX, the LFO not in sync with the beat. Probably an EMS VCS3, Brian Eno was known to use those a lot.
The drums are pretty basic dry acoustic ones. A separately recorded ride cymbal comes in halfway through, and reverby tambourine a bit after that.
The bass, I think, is a regular woofy electric bass, with maybe some phaser on it.
The rhythmic chords are possibly an acoustic piano. An organ (Farfisa?) joins in with a single related chord towards the end.
The rest are just 5-10 layers of guitar, many of them long echo-y feedback guitars from Robert Fripp. Initially I thought it could be some Ebow guitar, but apparently that wasn't sold until a year later.
So unless you can play guitar well, and can crank an amp up to feedback indefinitely, it's unlikely that you can get all that close, sound-wise!
Oh are you mainly talking about recreating the Robert Fripp guitar feedback line?
Details on how it was done here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%22Heroes ... king_track
It's all feedback.
I honestly think you could do a decent recreation using a synth. E.g., here's a crappy five-minute attempt using a Subtractor, a Scream, and some verb:
mp3:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/71rtjru10j4oy ... m.mp3?dl=0
Reason file:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/zg30i724ai0w8 ... eason?dl=0
Basic idea being: A feedbacking electric guitar is basically a square wave, so starting from there should get you in the ballpark. Then it's gonna be all about adding details and nuances (vibrato, simulating whatever fret noises, etc.). Depending on how faithful you want to be, I bet you get something usable with a synth.
Details on how it was done here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%22Heroes ... king_track
It's all feedback.
I honestly think you could do a decent recreation using a synth. E.g., here's a crappy five-minute attempt using a Subtractor, a Scream, and some verb:
mp3:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/71rtjru10j4oy ... m.mp3?dl=0
Reason file:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/zg30i724ai0w8 ... eason?dl=0
Basic idea being: A feedbacking electric guitar is basically a square wave, so starting from there should get you in the ballpark. Then it's gonna be all about adding details and nuances (vibrato, simulating whatever fret noises, etc.). Depending on how faithful you want to be, I bet you get something usable with a synth.
Reason 12 | Win 11 | gribbly.org | https://spoti.fi/39m1izC
Bloody Hell Gritz, it's insane!
Have you been recording it live with Reason live mastering on different channels?
The farfisa seems a little behind and the voice a little too bright, try to run the voice through
some transistor emulation RE or vactrol RE. Jst a thought. Amazing execution.
I would love to be able to work on the song file If I'd be there.
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AnotherMathias
- Posts: 213
- Joined: 29 Sep 2020
Very cool!
But I'm severely missing the bass guitar (with a flanger or phaser) enforcing the root throughout the chord changes. Here the bass plays the riff the riff the whole way through, rather than shifting underneath, so it sounds like the chords never change. And the bass disappears completely for the second part of the verse.
I'm also missing the driving 8th note piano chords, and the helicopter space noise.
Now I feel a bit inspired to make a song replica of my own...
But I'm severely missing the bass guitar (with a flanger or phaser) enforcing the root throughout the chord changes. Here the bass plays the riff the riff the whole way through, rather than shifting underneath, so it sounds like the chords never change. And the bass disappears completely for the second part of the verse.
I'm also missing the driving 8th note piano chords, and the helicopter space noise.
Now I feel a bit inspired to make a song replica of my own...
I just checked, there appears to be the solid root bass part and the riff (also on bass?). That's one thing missing in your version.
Also just talking about the intro, something in your version is too short/choppy on each chord change compared to the more continuous sound of the all the parts on the original.
And as great as the drums sound on yours, they should probably sit back a little.
The process for me is circular, I get the big things as good as possible, the go back to the start and revisit everything, and repeat. Maybe it's time to go back around the instruments starting at the bass and make sure nothing is missing.
If you're not already doing this, make sure to have a copy of the original synced up in your timeline so you can QUICKLY go back and forth to compare. Sometimes you even need to loop a section or even a bar or too and listen back and forth until you can figure out what exactly is different. I've learned SO much about arrangement/production/mixing doing this over the years, the only other thing I did that helped as much was playing in cover bands early on - reverse engineering that much material reveals trends and stylistic/genre cues, tricks and tips, and all the little things that go into production.
And by using songs YOU love, you learn more about how to make the listener feel like you feel when you listen to music. Plus it helps with the tedium of the task at hand…
Selig Audio, LLC
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AnotherMathias
- Posts: 213
- Joined: 29 Sep 2020
I haven't checked any sites, just going by ear here.
Listening to it again, I don't think the bass actually plays the riff (DBAD) at all, those are other instruments. The bass stays nearly set on the root, with some walking bass here and there.
Quick and dirty (and possibly incorrect) chord transcript:
D, G, D, G, C, D, Am, Em, D, C, G, D
That's it actually! I thought it would be more complicated that that, but it repeats a few times, and that's the song, Not a lot in the way of 7ths, diminished chords, any of that.
So essentially you can have the bass play 8th notes at those roots, with some minimal embellishments, and have a murky piano play 8th notes using basic
Listening to it again, I don't think the bass actually plays the riff (DBAD) at all, those are other instruments. The bass stays nearly set on the root, with some walking bass here and there.
Quick and dirty (and possibly incorrect) chord transcript:
D, G, D, G, C, D, Am, Em, D, C, G, D
That's it actually! I thought it would be more complicated that that, but it repeats a few times, and that's the song, Not a lot in the way of 7ths, diminished chords, any of that.
So essentially you can have the bass play 8th notes at those roots, with some minimal embellishments, and have a murky piano play 8th notes using basic
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EnochLight
- Moderator
- Posts: 8407
- Joined: 17 Jan 2015
- Location: Imladris
What did you use for the drums? Nice effort, BTW!
Win 10 | Ableton Live 11 Suite | Reason 12 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, MX1, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD
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