R12, 16 months on, ... how are you all finding it?

[arnigretar]

R12 is great, never stopped working or crashed here. I'm using couple of PC's and a Mac. Combinator is good - been playing a lot with it. R+ is fine! I have been here since the beginning but subscription model is better for me. The most creative part of music writing for me today is CV patching with dash of players. Love it.

[MrFigg]

Well, as some VSTs crash and some don't I'd probably have to say yes...or maybe, At the same time there's so many which crash Reason but are stable in other DAWs so as miyaru says above it's got to be both.

It's worth reporting it to both the developer and Reason as there is a possibility of a misbehaving plugin that affects one host and not another (for any number of reasons). This happens much more often than you'd think (it's why, for example, some websites work perfectly fine on Chrome but not Edge).

My money is on Reason being the problem , but there is a reasonable possibility of a VST issue (and even if there isn't, as happened in the past, the developer may be able to shed light on exactly what the problem is on Reason's end).

Yeah, I actually do usually report bugs to the VST dev. Usually get a reply and thanks also.

[plasticfractal]

I like the hi-res update and VST3 support, though I'd consider those basic features to bring it up to par with other DAWs. I still think Reason is the best DAW, of course. My main complaint about R12 is that certain VSTs literally just don't work anymore after the hi-res update. Like Serato Sample. It won't render correctly in the window, so there is no way to use it now. I have to open R11 to use it. A few other VSTs are like this now in R12, too. I put in a support ticket and they literally wouldn't do the single step to reproduce, which is "open Serato Sample". Instead we went round and round with me installing a logger and doing other tricks. Ok sorry I'm complaining. Yes I like the core basic features being added, it greatly improves the experience. I don't like the fact that certain VSTs simply can't be used in Reason now, and I wish I could get the support folks to at least try to open one of the VSTs in question. Oh well.

[Popey]

I like the hi-res update and VST3 support, though I'd consider those basic features to bring it up to par with other DAWs. I still think Reason is the best DAW, of course. My main complaint about R12 is that certain VSTs literally just don't work anymore after the hi-res update. Like Serato Sample. It won't render correctly in the window, so there is no way to use it now. I have to open R11 to use it. A few other VSTs are like this now in R12, too. I put in a support ticket and they literally wouldn't do the single step to reproduce, which is "open Serato Sample". Instead we went round and round with me installing a logger and doing other tricks. Ok sorry I'm complaining. Yes I like the core basic features being added, it greatly improves the experience. I don't like the fact that certain VSTs simply can't be used in Reason now, and I wish I could get the support folks to at least try to open one of the VSTs in question. Oh well.

Did rs mention if they owned a copy of serato sample? Bit poor if they do and do not want to try it.

I'm guessing they may not have a copy of every vst though and more likely why they cannot do this. If they had to buy every vst3 for testing that may be a significant outlay in money and time.

That said I hope the logger gives them the data they need and they grt it working for you.

[plasticfractal]

Unfortunately the logger didn't do any good. They ended up just telling me they weren't going to do anything about it (but in a nice way). There is just some issue with how their window renders user interfaces for VSTs, it seems. I think Serato Sample is like 100 dollars, which is not too much to pay to help surface a pretty critical bug, in my opinion. I would guess at least one person at Reason studios owns Serato, or one of the other affected VSTs (like Traction Novum, for another example).

[Popey]

Unfortunately the logger didn't do any good. They ended up just telling me they weren't going to do anything about it (but in a nice way). There is just some issue with how their window renders user interfaces for VSTs, it seems. I think Serato Sample is like 100 dollars, which is not too much to pay to help surface a pretty critical bug, in my opinion. I would guess at least one person at Reason studios owns Serato, or one of the other affected VSTs (like Traction Novum, for another example).

Yes I suppose so I was just wondering if they had the plugin or mentioned it. Novum not working is bad news as it is such a unique and creative synth.

I wonder if it is worth there being a thread for people to list vst3 that are affected by this issue so others are aware before purchasing. I don't have r12 but this issue could bite others.

[tallguy]

R12 is running really smoothly for me. And I own quite a few VSTs. I guess all it takes is to have one unstable plugin and your whole experience downgrades. I had to get rid of D-16 LuSH-101 as it's an insta-crash VST

[Aquila]

Gonna be honest here. I've tried forcing myself to like R12 but I keep falling back to an older version. There's a few reasons for this.

1. The new combinator is NOT external controller friendly! There's no easy way of allocating how each knob responds to which midi signal. The only way to do it is to create each knob in a specific order, which doesn't always work well if you're trying to create a device on the fly. Would it have been too hard for RS to add a simple feature for users to select an input control parameter for each new knob/slider/button?

2. I'm still very sore over the removal of the insert controls, particularly on the master bus. I spent ages modifying my own custom map with my hardware controller and now it's all useless. Automating insert paramaters now also means you have to flood the squencer with yet more device lanes for each insert effect. This was a terrible design decision. Surely the legacy 4 knob/button system could've at least stayed for inserts!

3. Both my computers still experience considerable graphics lag when scrolling or flipping the rack even on the latest release. For example, hitting the tab key can still take 2-3 seconds before I get to see the other side of the rack.

[joeyluck]

Gonna be honest here. I've tried forcing myself to like R12 but I keep falling back to an older version. There's a few reasons for this.

1. The new combinator is NOT external controller friendly! There's no easy way of allocating how each knob responds to which midi signal. The only way to do it is to create each knob in a specific order, which doesn't always work well if you're trying to create a device on the fly. Would it have been too hard for RS to add a simple feature for users to select an input control parameter for each new knob/slider/button?

2. I'm still very sore over the removal of the insert controls, particularly on the master bus. I spent ages modifying my own custom map with my hardware controller and now it's all useless. Automating insert paramaters now also means you have to flood the squencer with yet more device lanes for each insert effect. This was a terrible design decision. Surely the legacy 4 knob/button system could've at least stayed for inserts!

3. Both my computers still experience considerable graphics lag when scrolling or flipping the rack even on the latest release. For example, hitting the tab key can still take 2-3 seconds before I get to see the other side of the rack.

1. You can reorder them. On the configure screen, just drag them up or down to reorder them.

2. They fixed Remote support for these, so hardware setups should still work. What issues are you having with it?

3. Is this after the graphics have cached?

[kuhliloach]

Aquila's complaint reminds me of one of my oldest deepest frustrations with Reason - mapping MIDI controllers. To this day it seems Reason is missing basic critical functions such 'MIDI learn' to make something like Kong respond to a pad of your choice on a controller. Am I missing something? Why is RS making people create custom maps when the software should just work?

[selig]

2. I'm still very sore over the removal of the insert controls, particularly on the master bus. I spent ages modifying my own custom map with my hardware controller and now it's all useless. Automating insert paramaters now also means you have to flood the squencer with yet more device lanes for each insert effect. This was a terrible design decision. Surely the legacy 4 knob/button system could've at least stayed for inserts!

Besides the decision to remove the insert controls, I still wonder why automation related to all devices in the channel chain are not automatically in the same sequencer lane. Should be much simpler IMO, with all related automation on the same track as the MIDI data generating the audio signal, etc.
I’m guessing it’s not how the system was intended to work so it’s unlikely we’ll see that arrangement in Reason. But I gotta say I am preferring the simpler approach like in LUNA where there is one track with all related automation included.

[Aquila]

They fixed Remote support for these, so hardware setups should still work. What issues are you having with it?

Look:
Here's Reason 10

R10 Inserts.png (311.77 KiB) Viewed 4875 times

And here's Reason 12

R12 Inserts.png (153.49 KiB) Viewed 4875 times

They didn't fully fix it. There are no longer any programmable knobs or buttons anywhere on the insert. Their "solution" was to put a combinator inside the combinator (lol) with the old layout. That's just a crazy waste of space in both the rack and sequencer. Also, having a separate combinator on the master chain separates the controls completely from a hardware mixer controller. That part's still broken.

You can reorder them. On the configure screen, just drag them up or down to reorder them.

Happy to be shown how. I've virtually torn my hair out trying to figure this out.

Is this after the graphics have cached?

Yep. Had Reason running for hours and it still does it.

[joeyluck]

They fixed Remote support for these, so hardware setups should still work. What issues are you having with it?

Look:
Here's Reason 10 R10 Inserts.png

And here's Reason 12 R12 Inserts.png

They didn't fully fix it. There are no longer any programmable knobs or buttons anywhere on the insert. Their "solution" was to put a combinator inside the combinator (lol) with the old layout. That's just a crazy waste of space in both the rack and sequencer. Also, having a separate combinator on the master chain separates the controls completely from a hardware mixer controller. That part's still broken.

This is R11:

Macros R11.png (191.99 KiB) Viewed 4866 times

This is Reason 12:

Macros R12.png (121.5 KiB) Viewed 4866 times

As per the release notes for Reason 12.2.1:

Remote maps utilizing the old insert effects section in the Mixer now forwards this to the first four controls and buttons on a Combinator in the Insert FX section if applicable

Everything controller wise is still there and working. So I'm confused about that. And it just means we can also now have much more than 4 knobs and 4 buttons. And the size is flexible, not only does it take up less space by default, it can be made into 1U.

[joeyluck]

You can reorder them. On the configure screen, just drag them up or down to reorder them.

Happy to be shown how. I've virtually torn my hair out trying to figure this out.

Under Configure > in the Panel Element list, drag those up and down the list to reassign.

Is this after the graphics have cached?

Yep. Had Reason running for hours and it still does it.

I would report this. The cache in early versions took a while. After updates the cache was much faster. And after caching there is no lag. Of course every new thing it is presented at different zoom levels has to be cached.

[Jac459]

I use it now and then. Until they implement their new offline authorization I don't like using it. That and it still crashes more than 11 suite. I have updated to 12.5 but holding off on the latest update.

The offline authorization has more to do with Reason+

If you have a perpetual license, you can authorize Reason 12 to your computer, just as you can with previous versions.

If you use Reason+, authorization is the same between R11 and R12.
If you use perpetual licenses, the authorization is the same between R11 and R12.

I am very curious here. I have a perpetual licence for reason 12, i am on latest version, my computer is the one registered for both reason and the REs and yet, when i am loading a song in bitwig, all the instances of RRP generate a prompt with the need to be connected to internet. It is super annoying because i am quite nomad and my computer can't be always connected to internet...
How did you do?

[Pepin]

I am very curious here. I have a perpetual licence for reason 12, i am on latest version, my computer is the one registered for both reason and the REs and yet, when i am loading a song in bitwig, all the instances of RRP generate a prompt with the need to be connected to internet. It is super annoying because i am quite nomad and my computer can't be always connected to internet...
How did you do?

I've seen this in the past and solved it with Sync All from the RE account page. The perpetual rack plugin is definitely supposed to work with machine authorization.
Is it claiming some rack extensions need you to log in? That's the message that means you need to Sync All (unless you're actually trialing something or beta testing, in which case the message is accurate).

[groggy1]

Reason 12.5 has pretty much made Reason perfect for me with VST3 support (I'm on windows, so can totally understand the M1 support is still needed for Mac users)

Overall, stability has remained good for me since upgrade to released 12.5. In-general, I get one crash every roughly ~6-12 months with Reason over the years, so that's pretty damn good.

VST support was important to me, since there were a couple of instruments (Korg) that I really wanted and were only VST3.
And Combinator+ is a dream for me. Being able to customize the Combinator isn't CRITICAL for my workflow, but it's super-nice to be able to do.


Overall, Reason is a dream for me. I can't wait to see what they do next

[moneykube]

had a dummy moment looking at installs
I have Reason 12.2.9. 12.2.10, and 12.5 installs on a drive, and I am ready to install one.
So are most people here saying 12.5 is more stable than 12.2.10 depending on problem VSTs using OS Monterey?
2nd 2 part question> will I have to delete my many racks and reinstall them to benefit from Hi-Rez or will they just be Hi-Rez after install? Would that not affect Reason 11 if I chose to collaborate with someone using 11?

[moneykube]

should be easy to answer... no?

[Arpeg]

had a dummy moment looking at installs
I have Reason 12.2.9. 12.2.10, and 12.5 installs on a drive, and I am ready to install one.
So are most people here saying 12.5 is more stable than 12.2.10 depending on problem VSTs using OS Monterey?
2nd 2 part question> will I have to delete my many racks and reinstall them to benefit from Hi-Rez or will they just be Hi-Rez after install? Would that not affect Reason 11 if I chose to collaborate with someone using 11?

Download the latest.
No idea on Monterey - always used Win PC.
Racks will be Hi-res after install, no need for re-installing. After installing the latest version go to your account on the Reason Studios website and 'sync all' for rack extensions just to make sure after the update that everything syncs up nicely.
I have not gone to R11 for a while so I cannot honestly answer that but I presume it is just related to Reason 12 only as it is part of the upgrade along with mimic, combi 2 etc

[moneykube]

Download the latest.
Racks will be Hi-res after install, no need for re-installing. After installing the latest version go to your account on the Reason Studios website and 'sync all' for rack extensions just to make sure after the update that everything syncs up nicely.
I have not gone to R11 for a while so I cannot honestly answer that but I presume it is just related to Reason 12 only as it is part of the upgrade along with mimic, combi 2 etc

thanks... ya... R11 racks likely should remain fine.
Sorry folks... just being super cautious
A simple Apple firmware update , 3 faulty logic boards and a power supply causes 6 powered external drives to fry with no compensation. After 4 full installs of everything on my computer at each stage of failure( usually a 2 week endeavour sometimes having to contact companies for resets of my plugins because with each logic board it became a different computer to the authorizers and sites) > followed by another 2 day application install nightmare upgrading Catalina to Monterey>>> during the constant onslaught of updates coming from a large variety of rather large plugins I own. I grow weary of software updates, and just want the least grief involved, as I move from 11 to 12. This is partly why I waited until now. Thank you for you patience

[Forum Helper]

R12, 16 months on, ... how are you all finding it?

My system has been alerted that this question has not yet been answered adequately. Allow me to help!

There's a few ways you can find it...

I suggest first looking in the Applications folder. Otherwise, you can try performing a search for "Reason".

Need any other tips today?

[Jagwah]

R12, 16 months on, ... how are you all finding it?

My system has been alerted that this question has not yet been answered adequately. Allow me to help!

There's a few ways you can find it...

I suggest first looking in the Applications folder. Otherwise, you can try performing a search for "Reason".

Need any other tips today?

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[artotaku]

Slightly offtopic, but since it came up in this thread: As a software dev in my day job I want to really encourage you to take the time to make a reproducable scenario in Reason document and to report any bugs or errant behavior even if you suspect that fixing is delayed. And if a bug is reported and eventually fixed, everybody can benefit from it.

I can´t speak of the RS dev team but normally, if you are proud of a product you are developing you want to fix any reported issues but they need to be reproducable and need be prioritized by severity and criticality. If enough people report the same issue it also can have an effect on the prio even if the issue is not that severe.

My personal opinion on the way how RS handles bug fixing is that at least for registered beta testers it would be helpful and more encouraging to see any reported bugs and their current state as they did in earlier beta test phases. I hope they improve on that.

Now ontopic how I anticipated the R12 release and "aftermath". Yes, the 12.0 release feeled like a beta version, unstable and imperformant in some areas especially with graphics. Also tiny details nagging for the OCD people amongst us in the UI which we as users were not used to have in earlier releases. That said, I think RS learnt their part and improved on that in the most recent minor versions. For me the product is now really stable and fast. I can´t speak for VST3 integration since I don´t use any right now.

[moneykube]

.
I suggest first looking in the Applications folder. Otherwise, you can try performing a search for "Reason".

As Fripp states "More good advice could hardly be packed into one sentence than that is there"