New Roadmap (December 2022)

[Billy+]

Yeah demo mode doesn't allow me to try everything Reason anymore and it definitely doesn't allow me to open the projects I've created over many years to to actually see if the upgrade is worth buying.

Maybe it's stable but the current version doesn't allow me to evaluate this for myself

30 days full access without handing over your money might convince me to re install the demo....

Not sure what to tell you. Try the demo mode or subscribe to Reason+ for a month. Things have long moved past the performance issues of the early access version of R12. And there's another sale now on both Reason and Reason+ subscription.

Maybe I could spend a £1 in 2023 for a month of RXYZ but I'm still not convinced that it's a £ worth spending dose the daw have anything worth £200 I've read the current update log and accept that vst3 is on it's way but seriously not one update about R12 makes me think I should upgrade from R11.

[avasopht]

Please don't take offence as I do find reading your analogies amusing but seriously you always miss the essence of the opsitions argument

You've lost me, I was responding to your stated gap about the rolling version philosophy, not trying to argue with you.

I guess I've got my wires crossed somewhere since you didn't explicitly ask a question.

But no, I wasn't trying to argue with you.

[avasopht]

Maybe I could spend a £1 in 2023 for a month of RXYZ but I'm still not convinced that it's a £ worth spending dose the daw have anything worth £200 I've read the current update log and accept that vst3 is on it's way but seriously not one update about R12 makes me think I should upgrade from R11.

I'm still on R10.

Nobody is under any obligation to upgrade.

For me it's not a question of whether R12 is worth the upgrade, but whether I have any real need to spend anything at all right now (well ... there's this one bit of gear I've got me eye on) ...

[Billy+]

Please don't take offence as I do find reading your analogies amusing but seriously you always miss the essence of the opsitions argument

You've lost me, I was responding to your stated gap about the rolling version philosophy, not trying to argue with you.

I guess I've got my wires crossed somewhere since you didn't explicitly ask a question.

But no, I wasn't trying to argue with you.

I'm cool you do you and I'm not offended so you should continue to explain why you understand the point of continued support for the investment fund that is robbing us all of innovation development and inspiration. Personally I'm sticking with Einsteins definition of madness

[Billy+]

Maybe I could spend a £1 in 2023 for a month of RXYZ but I'm still not convinced that it's a £ worth spending dose the daw have anything worth £200 I've read the current update log and accept that vst3 is on it's way but seriously not one update about R12 makes me think I should upgrade from R11.

I'm still on R10.

Nobody is under any obligation to upgrade.

For me it's not a question of whether R12 is worth the upgrade, but whether I have any real need to spend anything at all right now (well ... there's this one bit of gear I've got me eye on) ...

Interesting to know

[avasopht]

I'm cool you do you and I'm not offended so you should continue to explain why you understand the point of continued support for the investment fund that is robbing us all of innovation development and inspiration. Personally I'm sticking with Einsteins definition of madness

What has what I've written got to do with continued support of the investment fund?

I was very clearly talking about rolling releases, which has absolutely nothing to do with investment funds.

This is a very bizarre response that makes little to no sense.

[joeyluck]

Not sure what to tell you. Try the demo mode or subscribe to Reason+ for a month. Things have long moved past the performance issues of the early access version of R12. And there's another sale now on both Reason and Reason+ subscription.

Maybe I could spend a £1 in 2023 for a month of RXYZ but I'm still not convinced that it's a £ worth spending dose the daw have anything worth £200 I've read the current update log and accept that vst3 is on it's way but seriously not one update about R12 makes me think I should upgrade from R11.

Well like I was saying, it's on sale now for 30% off. I'd say Mimic, the new Combinator, VST3, and the big performance improvement are well worth it, not even counting Apple Silicon support. I pay that much and more for single plugins, let alone a DAW upgrade with all those features and likely a year with more updates.

[EnochLight]

unfortunately it's not the quirky bunch of musicians who we once invested in but has turned into an investment fund that is simply after increasing their yearly revenue regardless of innovation but instead has relied on marketing and hollow promises.

Wow - sounds like you’re talking about Ableton…

[MrFigg]

Billy+. With the money you could have made working instead of the time you spend here complaining about Reason 12 you could have bought the whole company and done what you like with it.

[esselfortium]

Billy+ apparently doesn't remember the bad old days when we would wait years for an update to get one new synth, with no plugin options to make the wait any easier. I would love for the pace of development to be quicker still, but it seems undeniable that Reason development is moving along more quickly (and more transparently) than ever before.

[MuttReason]

Billy+ apparently doesn't remember the bad old days when we would wait years for an update to get one new synth, with no plugin options to make the wait any easier. I would love for the pace of development to be quicker still, but it seems undeniable that Reason development is moving along more quickly (and more transparently) than ever before.

Yep, spot on. Back in the day there were zero comms from the old Props on what lay ahead, and a good couple of years between updates with no indication prior to launch day as to what to expect. The radio silence used to drive folk nuts, the old PUF was awash with posts about how nobody could work out whether or not to stick with Reason in future if we didn’t know if the software would ever evolve to do XYZ like other DAWs.

Difference now is 1) we have a reasonable idea that stuff that’s not right (graphics glitches) or noticeably absent (VST3, M1) is firmly on the work plan, and 2) new stuff just kind of pops up out of nowhere (eg the ‘new exciting synthesiser in early 2023) rather than only in full releases every couple of years or so.

What hasn’t changed is there is always a list of stuff that Reason doesn’t have that people can’t believe is still missing in action after all these years. But we all keep on using Reason anyway. Twas ever thus.

[crimsonwarlock]

What hasn’t changed is there is always a list of stuff that Reason doesn’t have that people can’t believe is still missing in action after all these years.

What tends to get completely overlooked is the simple fact that EVERY DAW has such a list. Hang for a while on any DAW's user forum, and you get some sobering perspective.

Reason has an incredible amount of stuff and functionality that no other DAW has. Funny enough, even that is reason for some people to complain here, that Reason Studios doesn't do enough to bring all that functionality (through the RRP) to other DAWs

[earwig83]

Maybe I just need to fully understand the current rolling version philosophy.

But for the last 20 years I've brought a product that is what it is with updates that address some of the bugs that seem to cause problems for the most vocal - which up until recently I hadn't been.

But seriously I'm not sold on the current rolling development version given the alternatives (Live | Logic) especially when the claims about how the future might look followed by the subsequent delays that R12 has experienced, it's just not worth the £199 or £20 PCM with fingers crossed like it once was.

I've moved on like quite a few and quite frankly it's going to take a lot more than planned future developments to make me loyal again especially given what the last few years have given us long term supporters.

Not to start a fight but...If you've "moved on" why are you here complaining so much?

Note - I am a very longterm user and I am very happy.

I'd say that shows just how much he was committed to the previous visions for this software. As am I. Reason really is a long time relationship for many people, some as long as 20 years. Which is crazy amazing. Have you never looked up an old friend or lover on social media? Sometimes we move on with the hope that people of the past might have changed when we check in on them from time to time. In the case of reason, we have taken many steps forward but a lot of the newer steps have lead to an uncertain (and in some cases incomplete) future with the software's usage paradigms, etc. I myself refuse to leave but I am definitely afraid of one day finding myself unable to open old songs, etc. This VST3 implementation is making me realize, no matter how hard I try, eventually I will not be able to open old songs because of versions/license games. This blame can be more placed on steinberg or programmers as a whole who increasingly want to shorten support windows. Kind of like how windows dropped perfectly usable 7th gen intel chips for windows 11. Anyways, I want to keep hoping.

[MuttReason]

What tends to get completely overlooked is the simple fact that EVERY DAW has such a list. Hang for a while on any DAW's user forum, and you get some sobering perspective.

Oh, for sure. This board is an oasis of positivity compared with the Ableton user forum for example. Same with the Logic forums. FWIW, the ratio of interesting and constructive posts vs negative/RTFM shouty posts on ReasonTalk is way healthier than I see in most other music production forums. The only other one I use regularly that is comparable is the UAD forum which is also a pretty civilised place with helpful people.

[Jagwah]

Still very happy with Reason 10 here.

[stillifegaijin]

Not to start a fight but...If you've "moved on" why are you here complaining so much?

Note - I am a very longterm user and I am very happy.

I'd say that shows just how much he was committed to the previous visions for this software. As am I. Reason really is a long time relationship for many people, some as long as 20 years. Which is crazy amazing. Have you never looked up an old friend or lover on social media? Sometimes we move on with the hope that people of the past might have changed when we check in on them from time to time. In the case of reason, we have taken many steps forward but a lot of the newer steps have lead to an uncertain (and in some cases incomplete) future with the software's usage paradigms, etc. I myself refuse to leave but I am definitely afraid of one day finding myself unable to open old songs, etc. This VST3 implementation is making me realize, no matter how hard I try, eventually I will not be able to open old songs because of versions/license games. This blame can be more placed on steinberg or programmers as a whole who increasingly want to shorten support windows. Kind of like how windows dropped perfectly usable 7th gen intel chips for windows 11. Anyways, I want to keep hoping.

I am super committed to Reason, just not committed to standing still. I’ve been using Reason since version 2 and the current Reason 12 version is by far the most powerful, stable, and efficient version. So much of the complaining here seems to be nostalgia for nostalgia’s sake, combined with strange conspiracy theories about perpetual licenses going away or other easy to refute silliness. I understand your concerns about old projects not opening but so far, if that happens, it’s entirely to do with VSTs or other third party software that is optional, not Reason. Reason is incredibly backwards compatible. Far more so than most software. Try opening old ProTools files. Yikes. What a joke. But in general your fear sounds like fear of technology and progress. If people like old versions they should just keep happily using them. I just don’t see the point in continually complaining about the new thing if you have no intention of using it anyway.

[jam-s]

...
I understand your concerns about old projects not opening but so far, if that happens, it’s entirely to do with VSTs or other third party software that is optional, not Reason. Reason is incredibly backwards compatible.

The two things that can break your projects so far are the removal of the Line6 amps and the removal of Rewire. Depending on your projects this can be quite a hassle, especially as using older Versions of Reason with lots of REs will give you a torrent of error messages that you have to click away each time you start R8 for example when you have to bounce a track that is using a Line6 device or with a patch from a Refill that is using one of those devices.

[earwig83]

I'd say that shows just how much he was committed to the previous visions for this software. As am I. Reason really is a long time relationship for many people, some as long as 20 years. Which is crazy amazing. Have you never looked up an old friend or lover on social media? Sometimes we move on with the hope that people of the past might have changed when we check in on them from time to time. In the case of reason, we have taken many steps forward but a lot of the newer steps have lead to an uncertain (and in some cases incomplete) future with the software's usage paradigms, etc. I myself refuse to leave but I am definitely afraid of one day finding myself unable to open old songs, etc. This VST3 implementation is making me realize, no matter how hard I try, eventually I will not be able to open old songs because of versions/license games. This blame can be more placed on steinberg or programmers as a whole who increasingly want to shorten support windows. Kind of like how windows dropped perfectly usable 7th gen intel chips for windows 11. Anyways, I want to keep hoping.

I am super committed to Reason, just not committed to standing still. I’ve been using Reason since version 2 and the current Reason 12 version is by far the most powerful, stable, and efficient version. So much of the complaining here seems to be nostalgia for nostalgia’s sake, combined with strange conspiracy theories about perpetual licenses going away or other easy to refute silliness. I understand your concerns about old projects not opening but so far, if that happens, it’s entirely to do with VSTs or other third party software that is optional, not Reason. Reason is incredibly backwards compatible. Far more so than most software. Try opening old ProTools files. Yikes. What a joke. But in general your fear sounds like fear of technology and progress. If people like old versions they should just keep happily using them. I just don’t see the point in continually complaining about the new thing if you have no intention of using it anyway.

I def agree with much of what you say but in fact, reason is now very segmented with RE and also R+ problems, it leads to a lot of potential song sharing problems, especially since REs sometimes get removed from store and are tied to a single account and non transferrable.

I'd argue that reason is def still one of the best when it comes to compatibility but only because everyone else is and has been so terrible with backwards support. Pro tools and cubase, amirite? So yeah, i think the blame for the VST issue is VST culture. I wouldn't call the complaints nostalgic either though, I think we reason purists just really believed in that level of compatibility and unfortunately times are a changing.

[Billy+]

Maybe I could spend a £1 in 2023 for a month of RXYZ but I'm still not convinced that it's a £ worth spending dose the daw have anything worth £200 I've read the current update log and accept that vst3 is on it's way but seriously not one update about R12 makes me think I should upgrade from R11.

Well like I was saying, it's on sale now for 30% off. I'd say Mimic, the new Combinator, VST3, and the big performance improvement are well worth it, not even counting Apple Silicon support. I pay that much and more for single plugins, let alone a DAW upgrade with all those features and likely a year with more updates.

guess I could buy you from the curb
FYI AS still isn't available over s year after release.
Plans aren't promised and investment funds require returns regardless of customer expectations

I'm definitely going to wait until my expectations are met.

[Billy+]

unfortunately it's not the quirky bunch of musicians who we once invested in but has turned into an investment fund that is simply after increasing their yearly revenue regardless of innovation but instead has relied on marketing and hollow promises.

Wow - sounds like you’re talking about Ableton…

No I'm definitely talking about the current rolling development scam artists who have taken Reason Studios hostage in the hope that the undertermenent next major version is simply wishful thinking and subscription is the future.

I'm simply going to stick with R11 suite oh and Live 11 suite using RRP until the next major version of Reason standalone offers something worth buying.

Oh yes it's true RS has caused me to buy back into windows after over 10 years of Mac support all because they just can't keep up and I'm patient enough to wait while switching my primary daw to Live after 20+ years of using Reason.

[avasopht]

No I'm definitely talking about the current rolling development scam artists who have taken Reason Studios hostage in the hope that the undertermenent next major version is simply wishful thinking and subscription is the future.

...

If rolling development is a scam, most programmers are being scammed but aren't aware.

Ditto for subscriptions. The best tools offer subscriptions alongside perpetual licenses.

For your hypothesis to be true, all the programmers (who are qualified to assess whether rolling development is a scam) are less informed about their own industry and skill than you.

It would also require all of the billion-dollar companies using those products and tools to be less informed about you.

And it ignores contrary evidence, such as all of the free software that uses rolling development (which wouldn't make sense as a scam given it's free).

Do you really think you have superior insight over the absolute experts in the field?

[joeyluck]

Well like I was saying, it's on sale now for 30% off. I'd say Mimic, the new Combinator, VST3, and the big performance improvement are well worth it, not even counting Apple Silicon support. I pay that much and more for single plugins, let alone a DAW upgrade with all those features and likely a year with more updates.

guess I could buy you from the curb
FYI AS still isn't available over s year after release.
Plans aren't promised and investment funds require returns regardless of customer expectations

I'm definitely going to wait until my expectations are met.

I have no idea what that means. I searched, in quotes, "buy you from the curb" and Google had no results.

This entire conversation spawned from you saying, "maybe if R12 moves out of continuous beta and actually becomes a stable major version".

So I explained to you the ongoing beta program (that was announced as such when it launched) and that Reason is in fact stable and has been for a long time. I offered suggestions for all of the ways you can get your hands on Reason by demoing it, trying it, or getting it on sale.

This would be easier for everybody if you decided what you actually cared about and understand that people are trying to help you.

This conversation is like you being on Reason 4 and complaining about the lack of audio recording, and people explaining to you that Reason has had audio recording for years, and you replying, "I'll believe it when I see it", and then people explain to you how you can see it, and then you say, "I'm definitely going to wait until my expectations are met".

[EnochLight]

No I'm definitely talking about the current rolling development scam artists who have taken Reason Studios hostage in the hope that .. TL;DR..”

Dude.. WTF?!

[jlgrimes]

Code: Select all

What hasn’t changed is there is always a list of stuff that Reason doesn’t have that people can’t believe is still missing in action after all these years.

What tends to get completely overlooked is the simple fact that EVERY DAW has such a list. Hang for a while on any DAW's user forum, and you get some sobering perspective.

Reason has an incredible amount of stuff and functionality that no other DAW has. Funny enough, even that is reason for some people to complain here, that Reason Studios doesn't do enough to bring all that functionality (through the RRP) to other DAWs

True that every DAW is missing something.

I think the thing is Reason's updates are kind of Polarizing as they might just be pretty focused on one thing (new synths v10, Plugin v11), where core functionality might hardly get improved at all. That can be pretty frustrating for alot of people.

Other DAWS, usually have a wider range of features in a major release (new synth and/or effect, audio core DAW improvements, midi core DAW improvements), that covers enough bases that most users are happy.

Reaper tend to focus more on core DAW improvements only, and some of their major releases are quite "boring" (alot of times some back door Techie improvement like Walter). That said their prices are so low and that they add many features in minor releases, and don't really market major releases makes them unique and users are generally happy.

[Marc64]

To sum up: ppl are never satisfied with whatever they get/have. Allways wanting more...