New Roadmap (December 2022)

This forum is for discussing Reason. Questions, answers, ideas, and opinions... all apply.
User avatar
MrFigg
Posts: 8593
Joined: 20 Apr 2018

Post 18 Dec 2022

We bought R12. We had a description of what it should do. It didn’t. We got a Roadmap. If they fix R12 so that it does all the stuff they said it would do when we bought it then that’s as much as they need to do. Nothing more.
丰2ॐ

User avatar
selig
RE Developer
Posts: 10695
Joined: 15 Jan 2015
Location: The NorthWoods, CT, USA

Post 18 Dec 2022

MrFigg wrote:
18 Dec 2022
…We had a description of what it should do. It didn’t.
But did we?
That would be false advertising as you described it, I would think.
Selig Audio, LLC

User avatar
MrFigg
Posts: 8593
Joined: 20 Apr 2018

Post 18 Dec 2022

selig wrote:
18 Dec 2022
MrFigg wrote:
18 Dec 2022
…We had a description of what it should do. It didn’t.
But did we?
That would be false advertising as you described it, I would think.
Yeah. Absolutely. That’s what we’ve being saying since it got released unfinished and incomplete. That’s one of the reasons people are annoyed. But if they bring the product fully up to what was promised that’s the most they need to do right?
丰2ॐ

User avatar
crimsonwarlock
Posts: 1229
Joined: 06 Nov 2021
Location: Close to the Edge

Post 18 Dec 2022

MrFigg wrote:
18 Dec 2022
Yeah. Absolutely. That’s what we’ve being saying since it got released unfinished and incomplete.
I bought the R12 upgrade the same day it was released (basically for hi-res). Nowhere did they state that it was finished (they said 'most of the work was done' for hi-res) or that VST3 was implemented (just that it was 'planned for R12' and they are keeping that promise). What they did say was that R12 came with the new combinator 2 and the Mimic sampler, and it did. Many people who participated in the drama forgot that they were exactly informed what was there and what wasn't (yet). It wasn't like you bought R12 and then found out VST3 was missing. I got exactly what they said I would get when I bought it. I don't see where they 'falsely advertised' anything.

And if bugs in software means it is unfinished, then there is no finished software existing today. But still, people buy software.
----
Most users think the reason their requests aren't being met, is because some developer somewhere in a cubical refuses to waive its magic wand.

MuttReason
Posts: 271
Joined: 28 Jan 2021

Post 18 Dec 2022

Well, when R12 launched it was quite a mess. From memory, one of the main points in the first roadmap RS published (whenever it was) stated that they were focusing on stabilising R12. They’ve delivered on that. I am absolutely loving using Reason again, it is back to its old bombproof form as far as I’m concerned, I’m using it all day long day in and day out (standalone DAW and RRP in Live) and not one crash or weirdness now for months (even the graphics bugs that were around until recently were minor cosmetic things only). Can’t say that about other gear or software I rely on (looking at you Akai, recent MPC OS update has been a total shambles, and Ableton Live 11 was prone to flakiness for quite a long time until 11.2 came out… even now I still get occasional errors on exit).

I don’t use VSTs in Reason (REs only) so I’m less concerned about the VST3 update (although I understand it would be crazy for RS not to do this, and I understand why people are frustrated it’s taken so long). Same deal with M1 support.

The key thing for me is that over the last 20 years or so I’ve been using Reason, RS/Props do generally get there in the end. They have never exactly been what you might call swift…. but, most of the time, stuff that should happen, does happen. Yeah, things also fall off the back of the bus on the way (like basic DAW enhancements that are hugely overdue, like markers…. come on guys, no way is that hard to do). But, mostly, eventually, it’s all good, and life rolls on.

Also, this whole published roadmap thing is all pretty new. Ernst pretty much built the company on a vow of omerta. The Props hardly ever told anyone what was coming next. Used to annoy the hell out of a lot of us, the old PUF was full of posts about how it was wrong for the Props to leave the customer base in the dark all the time. The vagueness about 2023 developments in this new roadmap post is more like a reversion to the old Props in that respect.

User avatar
MrFigg
Posts: 8593
Joined: 20 Apr 2018

Post 18 Dec 2022

crimsonwarlock wrote:
18 Dec 2022
MrFigg wrote:
18 Dec 2022
Yeah. Absolutely. That’s what we’ve being saying since it got released unfinished and incomplete.
I bought the R12 upgrade the same day it was released (basically for hi-res). Nowhere did they state that it was finished (they said 'most of the work was done' for hi-res) or that VST3 was implemented (just that it was 'planned for R12' and they are keeping that promise). What they did say was that R12 came with the new combinator 2 and the Mimic sampler, and it did. Many people who participated in the drama forgot that they were exactly informed what was there and what wasn't (yet). It wasn't like you bought R12 and then found out VST3 was missing. I got exactly what they said I would get when I bought it. I don't see where they 'falsely advertised' anything.

And if bugs in software means it is unfinished, then there is no finished software existing today. But still, people buy software.
Great :).
To be honest I couldn’t give a fuck about the state of Reason. Accepted it and moved on with my life. More important things to think about than software.
丰2ॐ

User avatar
selig
RE Developer
Posts: 10695
Joined: 15 Jan 2015
Location: The NorthWoods, CT, USA

Post 18 Dec 2022

MrFigg wrote:
18 Dec 2022
selig wrote:
18 Dec 2022

But did we?
That would be false advertising as you described it, I would think.
Yeah. Absolutely. That’s what we’ve being saying since it got released unfinished and incomplete. That’s one of the reasons people are annoyed. But if they bring the product fully up to what was promised that’s the most they need to do right?
There’s that word again, “promised”. Can you remember where you read this promise, I honestly don’t remember what was promised or if anything was ever promised - or was the the road map you’re talking about?
Selig Audio, LLC

User avatar
MrFigg
Posts: 8593
Joined: 20 Apr 2018

Post 18 Dec 2022

selig wrote:
18 Dec 2022
MrFigg wrote:
18 Dec 2022


Yeah. Absolutely. That’s what we’ve being saying since it got released unfinished and incomplete. That’s one of the reasons people are annoyed. But if they bring the product fully up to what was promised that’s the most they need to do right?
There’s that word again, “promised”. Can you remember where you read this promise, I honestly don’t remember what was promised or if anything was ever promised - or was the the road map you’re talking about?
Sigh!!! Ok. I wrote “promised”. Mistake. I KNOW they didn’t promise anything. I’ve read that same thing a million times here in RS. I’ve been awake for about a week trying to get my daughters blood sugar stabilized so I’m a bit fuzzy which is probably the reason I slipped up and wrote “promised”.
All I want them to do is fix the stuff they said they will and that’s all and that’s what they’re doing. I’m happy with the features in R12. I don’t want anything else than what we’re already getting. Give me VST3 and stop Reason crashing on me I’m happy. I’m not being negative about RS. Quite the opposite. I’m saying that they’re doing what they said they’d do and that’s good enough for me.
丰2ॐ

User avatar
crimsonwarlock
Posts: 1229
Joined: 06 Nov 2021
Location: Close to the Edge

Post 18 Dec 2022

MrFigg wrote:
18 Dec 2022
I’m saying that they’re doing what they said they’d do and that’s good enough for me.
Fair enough. I did wonder where the mixed signals were coming from, as you are normally not in the negativity crowd here on the forum.

I hope your daughter gets well, family is everything.
----
Most users think the reason their requests aren't being met, is because some developer somewhere in a cubical refuses to waive its magic wand.

User avatar
avasopht
Posts: 3551
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

Post 18 Dec 2022

I do recall a brief moment when the Reason (maybe R+ or R12) product page stated something that was flagged in the forum and quickly corrected.

Other than that, I don't recall anything before the roadmap giving many indications of what to expect from R12.

It might have been the M1 support, but I cannot remember either.
---

User avatar
EnochLight
Moderator
Posts: 8054
Joined: 17 Jan 2015
Location: Imladris

Post 18 Dec 2022

MrFigg wrote:
18 Dec 2022
I’ve been awake for about a week trying to get my daughters blood sugar stabilized so I’m a bit fuzzy
/mod note :cry:

UGH... I'm so sorry - my heart goes out to you and your family! I hope your daughter is OK.
Win 10 | Ableton Live 11 Suite |  Reason 12 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, MX1, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD

User avatar
MrFigg
Posts: 8593
Joined: 20 Apr 2018

Post 18 Dec 2022

crimsonwarlock wrote:
18 Dec 2022
MrFigg wrote:
18 Dec 2022
I’m saying that they’re doing what they said they’d do and that’s good enough for me.
Fair enough. I did wonder where the mixed signals were coming from, as you are normally not in the negativity crowd here on the forum.

I hope your daughter gets well, family is everything.

Thanks. She won’t get better. Her pancreas stopped working so really it’s just a matter of keeping her blood sugar from going so low that she lands in a coma or so high that her organs fuck up. Full time job. Good days and bad days. Just been a lot of bad nights recently.
丰2ॐ

User avatar
MrFigg
Posts: 8593
Joined: 20 Apr 2018

Post 18 Dec 2022

EnochLight wrote:
18 Dec 2022
MrFigg wrote:
18 Dec 2022
I’ve been awake for about a week trying to get my daughters blood sugar stabilized so I’m a bit fuzzy
/mod note :cry:

UGH... I'm so sorry - my heart goes out to you and your family! I hope your daughter is OK.
Thanks Enoch. We’ll get there :). Appreciate you saying. Thanks.
丰2ॐ

User avatar
joeyluck
Moderator
Posts: 10237
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

Post 18 Dec 2022

visheshl wrote:
17 Dec 2022
Man i just need vsts as players 😞
It's really screwing up my workflow, not being able to have a single track for each sound.
But then i remember what it was like before DAWs and so i keep silent.
Can RS add midi vsts as players to the roadmap please. It's important.
I understand people are requesting this in the Reason DAW and I hope we see it at some point.

But from my understanding, you are using the RRP in Live, is that correct?

Aside from the RRP first needing VST support...
If you are using the RRP in another DAW, and you want to connect a VST MIDI device to the RRP to control RE instruments, you could do that via the MIDI insert of your other DAW.

User avatar
buddard
RE Developer
Posts: 1142
Joined: 17 Jan 2015
Location: Stockholm

Post 18 Dec 2022

MrFigg wrote:
18 Dec 2022
crimsonwarlock wrote:
18 Dec 2022


Fair enough. I did wonder where the mixed signals were coming from, as you are normally not in the negativity crowd here on the forum.

I hope your daughter gets well, family is everything.

Thanks. She won’t get better. Her pancreas stopped working so really it’s just a matter of keeping her blood sugar from going so low that she lands in a coma or so high that her organs fuck up. Full time job. Good days and bad days. Just been a lot of bad nights recently.
Man, I'm really sorry to hear that! :(

User avatar
MrFigg
Posts: 8593
Joined: 20 Apr 2018

Post 18 Dec 2022

buddard wrote:
18 Dec 2022
MrFigg wrote:
18 Dec 2022



Thanks. She won’t get better. Her pancreas stopped working so really it’s just a matter of keeping her blood sugar from going so low that she lands in a coma or so high that her organs fuck up. Full time job. Good days and bad days. Just been a lot of bad nights recently.
Man, I'm really sorry to hear that! :(
Thanks man. The technology is getting better all the time and making things easier. There’s a new pump just been godkänd for use in Sweden which has a gas o broms funktion. Should get it the middle of next year. Can you believe the reason it’s taken so long to get approval is that whole GPDR thing because it sends information wirelessly. Who cares about that??!!!
Thanks for writing. Det värmer. ❤️
丰2ॐ

User avatar
buddard
RE Developer
Posts: 1142
Joined: 17 Jan 2015
Location: Stockholm

Post 18 Dec 2022

MrFigg wrote:
18 Dec 2022
buddard wrote:
18 Dec 2022


Man, I'm really sorry to hear that! :(
Thanks man. The technology is getting better all the time and making things easier. There’s a new pump just been godkänd for use in Sweden which has a gas o broms funktion. Should get it the middle of next year. Can you believe the reason it’s taken so long to get approval is that whole GPDR thing because it sends information wirelessly. Who cares about that??!!!
Thanks for writing. Det värmer. ❤️
Like many other well-meaning EU initiatives, GDPR is misguided on so many levels.
And when you add that together with the traditional Swedish bureaucracy, I know it can get pretty frustrating...
So hang in there, and I hope you get the equipment you need soon!

RobC
Posts: 1590
Joined: 10 Mar 2018

Post 18 Dec 2022

MrFigg wrote:
18 Dec 2022
I’ve been awake for about a week trying to get my daughters blood sugar stabilized so I’m a bit fuzzy which is probably the reason I slipped up and wrote “promised”.
Yipe! Hang in there!

I had related issues, although generic life crap ~ so I barely have days without drinking alcohol. x D "Smart" of me, I know. But yeah, using the wrong word happened to me, too, recently. That, plus bad sleep, plus a mild nervous breakdown, then a mild heart attack/infarkt. Neither of which I got checked out by a doc. x D
Guess it's "fun" times for many people these days.

User avatar
dvdrtldg
Posts: 2060
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

Post 18 Dec 2022

avasopht wrote:
17 Dec 2022
dvdrtldg wrote:
17 Dec 2022
Might I respectfully suggest you get off the internet for a while and go for a walk in the fresh air
Well, if Google maps is everywhere, and Google maps is on the internet, are you ever really off the internet 😲
Woooaaaaaahh dude

Image

User avatar
EnochLight
Moderator
Posts: 8054
Joined: 17 Jan 2015
Location: Imladris

Post 18 Dec 2022

From the blog post:
So what happens after Reason runs natively on Apple silicon and Reason+ has offline support? Well, lots. During 2023 we’ll keep adding features to Reason 12 to continue making it the best version of Reason ever.  It’s too early to share exactly what we’re working on, but we’ll post an update as we get closer to a release.


From the promo video released today:


hmmmmmm.JPG

:o :shock: :thumbup: :clap: :lol:
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Win 10 | Ableton Live 11 Suite |  Reason 12 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, MX1, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD

User avatar
visheshl
Posts: 972
Joined: 27 Sep 2019

Post 18 Dec 2022

joeyluck wrote:
18 Dec 2022
visheshl wrote:
17 Dec 2022
Man i just need vsts as players 😞
It's really screwing up my workflow, not being able to have a single track for each sound.
But then i remember what it was like before DAWs and so i keep silent.
Can RS add midi vsts as players to the roadmap please. It's important.
I understand people are requesting this in the Reason DAW and I hope we see it at some point.

But from my understanding, you are using the RRP in Live, is that correct?

Aside from the RRP first needing VST support...
If you are using the RRP in another DAW, and you want to connect a VST MIDI device to the RRP to control RE instruments, you could do that via the MIDI insert of your other DAW.
Of course Joey...that's the standard way of working.

User avatar
Billy+
Posts: 4030
Joined: 09 Dec 2016

Post 18 Dec 2022

stillifegaijin wrote:
16 Dec 2022
Billy+ wrote:
16 Dec 2022
Maybe I just need to fully understand the current rolling version philosophy.

But for the last 20 years I've brought a product that is what it is with updates that address some of the bugs that seem to cause problems for the most vocal - which up until recently I hadn't been.

But seriously I'm not sold on the current rolling development version given the alternatives (Live | Logic) especially when the claims about how the future might look followed by the subsequent delays that R12 has experienced, it's just not worth the £199 or £20 PCM with fingers crossed like it once was.

I've moved on like quite a few and quite frankly it's going to take a lot more than planned future developments to make me loyal again especially given what the last few years have given us long term supporters.
Not to start a fight but...If you've "moved on" why are you here complaining so much?

Note - I am a very longterm user and I am very happy.

:lol: (virtual fight)

I'm not entirely positive about the current social media environment/experience that companies have hedged their ability to increase investment/revenue so stay away from major platforms in favour of little old reasontalk,

That's why I'm here complaining ;)

which leaves me with a limited platform to express concern about the current direction that the company I've invested in for 20 plus years has taken.

It's obviously going to cause the diehards that I was once one of to come out and protect propellerheads but unfortunately it's not the quirky bunch of musicians who we once invested in but has turned into an investment fund that is simply after increasing their yearly revenue regardless of innovation but instead has relied on marketing and hollow promises.
Freedom of expression does not exist in this dojo ;)

Reason V1 -- V11 suite, now I'm enjoying Live 11 suite and using Reason as a plugin RRPv11
R12 just still isn't worth it..... #justbuylive #sequencerfeatues #fixthebugs #aplanisnotapromis

User avatar
Billy+
Posts: 4030
Joined: 09 Dec 2016

Post 18 Dec 2022

joeyluck wrote:
16 Dec 2022
Billy+ wrote:
16 Dec 2022
Maybe I just need to fully understand the current rolling version philosophy.
It simply means that Reason gets better and better with more frequent updates. From my experience, it's the best it has ever been. It's solid and it has been for some time. You can always test the demo mode ;)

There have been 12 updates so far for R12. Read through the release notes. On Monday it will be update #13.
Yeah demo mode doesn't allow me to try everything Reason anymore and it definitely doesn't allow me to open the projects I've created over many years to to actually see if the upgrade is worth buying.

Maybe it's stable but the current version doesn't allow me to evaluate this for myself ;)

30 days full access without handing over your money might convince me to re install the demo....
Freedom of expression does not exist in this dojo ;)

Reason V1 -- V11 suite, now I'm enjoying Live 11 suite and using Reason as a plugin RRPv11
R12 just still isn't worth it..... #justbuylive #sequencerfeatues #fixthebugs #aplanisnotapromis

User avatar
Billy+
Posts: 4030
Joined: 09 Dec 2016

Post 18 Dec 2022

avasopht wrote:
17 Dec 2022
Billy+ wrote:
16 Dec 2022
Maybe I just need to fully understand the current rolling version philosophy.

But for the last 20 years I've brought a product that is what it is with updates that address some of the bugs that seem to cause problems for the most vocal - which up until recently I hadn't been.
Basically it works like this.

Major releases of products sold on physical mediums are committed to a final "gold master" branch.

Once the gold master branch is completed and the gold build sent for DVD replication, a new branch for the next version (and gold master) is targeted by the whole team.

This is why ver X.5 releases are momentous occasions (2.5 with vocoder, rv7000, scream, unison and spider , 6.5 with RE and 9.5 with VST).

But Agile development workflows do away with the need for any distinct gold master targets (unless you wanted to purposefully withhold features till the next version).

Even major versions are a little arbitrary, so you sometimes see products switch to using the year to identify and synchronise major versions (or LTS releases).

It also simplifies bug fixes to the current release (since technically it is the old branch once released).

It is one of, if not, the most natural and stable production process for products that will be continually worked on.

For an end user, rolling releases means most (sometimes close to all) new features target the current version rather then the next version.
Please don't take offence as I do find reading your analogies amusing but seriously you always miss the essence of the opsitions argument ;)
Freedom of expression does not exist in this dojo ;)

Reason V1 -- V11 suite, now I'm enjoying Live 11 suite and using Reason as a plugin RRPv11
R12 just still isn't worth it..... #justbuylive #sequencerfeatues #fixthebugs #aplanisnotapromis

User avatar
joeyluck
Moderator
Posts: 10237
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

Post 18 Dec 2022

Billy+ wrote:
18 Dec 2022
joeyluck wrote:
16 Dec 2022


It simply means that Reason gets better and better with more frequent updates. From my experience, it's the best it has ever been. It's solid and it has been for some time. You can always test the demo mode ;)

There have been 12 updates so far for R12. Read through the release notes. On Monday it will be update #13.
Yeah demo mode doesn't allow me to try everything Reason anymore and it definitely doesn't allow me to open the projects I've created over many years to to actually see if the upgrade is worth buying.

Maybe it's stable but the current version doesn't allow me to evaluate this for myself ;)

30 days full access without handing over your money might convince me to re install the demo....
Not sure what to tell you. Try the demo mode or subscribe to Reason+ for a month. Things have long moved past the performance issues of the early access version of R12. And there's another sale now on both Reason and Reason+ subscription.

  • Information
  • Who is online

    Users browsing this forum: CommonCrawl [Bot] and 4 guests