Effect Trigger on push - off on release

[me-yourself-and-them]

Hi guys,

I was looking for quite a while to figure out the following can't be done in just reason 12 alone. right?

I want to push a button on a controller.
It turns a combinator knob 100% right on push.
This knob controls the effect amount on the channel.
No problem in Reason. But the knob always stays on 100%, it's not reset by MIDI note off.

On controller button release i found no way just "inside" Reason 12 to also use this note off message to reset the combinator knob to 0. Am I right with this assumption? Read quite a lot of other posts here like "momentary kong pads". Not working in my case.

So i got the nice free MIDI Tapper Reason rack extension. With that one i got note on and off to control e.g. combinator knobs through CV out. Little problem here: I'd like to use at least 8 effect trigger buttons. Each MIDI Tapper only provides ONE tapped note, right?

So I split the incoming button notes from lauchpad mini to different MIDI channels each. Use LoopMIDI to split the channels to different LoopMIDI ouputs. And assign these each fixed to MIDI tapper instruments in Reason. Mark FIXED. This is crucial, as I'm using up to 4 different MIDI controllers and already 5 more channels on launchpad mini for the control of several instruments in Reason.

There is no way in Reason to assign ONE LoopMIDI output channel to SEVERAL rack instruments. Right? This ends me up in the current position: each of the 8 buttons needs a whole midi channel for itsself. It's getting tight in here.

Anyone an idea how to at least minimize this setup or even achieve it with Reason 12 board instruments only?

[rmtcvolte]

[/b]
I want to push a button on a controller.
It turns a combinator knob 100% right on push.
This knob controls the effect amount on the channel.
No problem in Reason. But the knob always stays on 100%, it's not reset by MIDI note off.

As there is a difference between Midi Note and Midi Button (control change), the easiest would be to use a appropriate button. If you have the MK3 version of the lauchpad mini, you could use the User Mode for set this up. Launchpad user guide:
"Within a Custom Mode, each pad within the 8x8 grid may act as a Note, a MIDI CC (control change),
or a Program Change message.
The pads may behave either as toggles, triggers or momentary switches. Momentary behaviour will
turn on a note when the pad is pressed and release the note when un-pressed. Triggers will always
send a specified CC value or program change message."

Use the Novation Components app or online tool for programm this, I tested it with the Launchpad X it works as expected.

[selig]

There are other ways to do it from a MIDI source, each taking a different approach.

Pulsar has an envelope with it’s own CV out. Any MIDI note will generate a CV and hold it until release/note off, as the envelope in Pulsar is a simplified ASR with the sustain stage fixed at 100%.
Connect this CV from Pulsars ‘ENVELOPE CV OUT’ into the Combinator knob directly, or alternatively into one of the separate CV inputs. Use Attack/Release to add ‘smoothing’ as needed. Put Pulsar into the Combinator for easy organization.

Old school/brute force approach:
Use a raw waveform from a synth with nothing on it, just a steady tone with full sustain and no decay (a simple organ setting works for this, no vibrato/leslie). Use it to ‘key’ a gate that’s on the FX send (before the FX itself). Every time you play a note you open the send to the FX. Adjust attack/release for smoothing.

Another approach altogether:
Use a sustain pedal, and use Thor to convert it to CV. Connect to a Combinator as above.

[me-yourself-and-them]

selig again you know selig means "blessed" in german? nice idea! will check as soon as possible. to trigger multiple effects with just one instrument i'd either need multiple cv out or route the same midicontroller out to different LoopMIDI channels. checked pulsar. with just one pulsar i should be able to control 2 effects through cv out, right? or do i really need evelope cv out, hence only one controllable effct trigger.

perfect slution would be one instrument, 8 different triggers through 8 different midi notes. assign with combinator to 8 different effects...

[me-yourself-and-them]

little problem with MIDI Tapper: even when you save a preset e.g. "let me be triggered by C7" and save the song: every time you re-open the song the trigger note on every MIDI tapper device switches back to C3. Anyone an idea how to fix this?

[selig]

selig again you know selig means "blessed" in german? nice idea! will check as soon as possible. to trigger multiple effects with just one instrument i'd either need multiple cv out or route the same midicontroller out to different LoopMIDI channels. checked pulsar. with just one pulsar i should be able to control 2 effects through cv out, right? or do i really need evelope cv out, hence only one controllable effct trigger.

perfect slution would be one instrument, 8 different triggers through 8 different midi notes. assign with combinator to 8 different effects...

I actually built that exact combinator many many years ago, 8 FX each controlled by a note for on/off, plus some used a second (black) key for a variation. I called it KeyFx (built three versions) and I THINK I shared it way back on the old PUF. I’ll see if I can dig it up, could be interesting with the new Combinator…

[dioxide]

I've done a bit of research into this recently. IMO the best stock device for the envelopes is Thor's Global Env, as it will let you set tempo synced Attack and Release. The only downside is that you can't set the start and end levels – so if you want the level to snap from 0 to 50% at the beginning of the bar, followed by a slow rise to 100% you can't do this without extra CV fiddling. I have built a Combinator that gets around this but it relies on third party REs. Perhaps it is possible to do in a single Thor but I didn't solve it.

Other options are Blamsoft Movement, which is good because you can set Start and End levels, plus it has tempo synced options. Another option to investigate is Volt SL-1 which is more CV morphing than envelope triggering – this has some advantages.

Finally, I use the CV outs from Directre to trigger the envelopes as it can be set to trigger at Bar or Beat, so your fade can be synced to tempo.

[dioxide]

Here is the Combi I was working on with timed in/out fades. This does volume fades but it could easily be repurposed for effect fades.
viewtopic.php?f=69&t=7525651

[me-yourself-and-them]

i'm using components quite a lot with my launchpad mini mk3. the only options for the button types in custom mode are momentary or toggle...you got the regular launchpad maybe?

[/b]
I want to push a button on a controller.
It turns a combinator knob 100% right on push.
This knob controls the effect amount on the channel.
No problem in Reason. But the knob always stays on 100%, it's not reset by MIDI note off.

As there is a difference between Midi Note and Midi Button (control change), the easiest would be to use a appropriate button. If you have the MK3 version of the lauchpad mini, you could use the User Mode for set this up. Launchpad user guide:
"Within a Custom Mode, each pad within the 8x8 grid may act as a Note, a MIDI CC (control change),
or a Program Change message.
The pads may behave either as toggles, triggers or momentary switches. Momentary behaviour will
turn on a note when the pad is pressed and release the note when un-pressed. Triggers will always
send a specified CC value or program change message."

Use the Novation Components app or online tool for programm this, I tested it with the Launchpad X it works as expected.

[rmtcvolte]

i'm using components quite a lot with my launchpad mini mk3. the only options for the button types in custom mode are momentary or toggle...you got the regular launchpad maybe?

As described I use a Launchpad X, but momentary is the option who should do the task. Last time I forgot to ask what kind of codec you are using? Does the item definition in function remote_init() looks like this?:

Code: Select all

function remote_init()
	local items=
	{
		{name="Button 8", input="button", output="value"},
	}
remote.define_items(items)
	
local inputs=
	{
		{pattern="b0 47 xx", name="Button 8", value="1"},
	}
remote.define_auto_inputs(inputs)

The crucial part is the constant value definition in local input, without a definition or as a variable the momentary button function is not working.

[me-yourself-and-them]

hi rmtcvolte,

i'm using my own custom lua codec.
the buttons are defined like

function remote_init()
local items={
{name = "Button 8-5", input = "button", output="value"},
}
remote.define_items(items)

local inputs=
{
{pattern="<100?>? 24 ?<???x>", name="Keyboard", value="x", note="36", velocity="100"},
}
remote.define_auto_inputs(inputs)

on local inputs i just see kong buttons, other ones than the one above. so i guess this is the cruical part missing in my codec?

[rmtcvolte]

i'm using my own custom lua codec.

If I understood it correctly, the LP mini and LPX are very similar, even the custom modes are compatible between them. If you are only using the "Keys mode" with the midi keyboard input you will give away a lot of options with this controler imo. As long as I know you need a definiton for all your midi input eather in local inputs/outputs or function remote_process_midi/remote_deliver_midi to make the controler interact with Reason via the codec.