[solved] Anyone else notice that instruments in the RRP and Reason DAW do not sound the same?

[mantoras]

I can not prove it, but when comparing thor, europa etc when listening in Reason DAW and the VST there is difference in sonic quality.
The DAW sounds more open, and deep. The highs has more crispy quality. The VST version sounds somewhat flat in comparison.
Basically the same sound bu without the extra omph and sparkle from what I hear within the DAW.

Am I the only one hearing this difference? I am not able to do a scientific test, but I guess that doing the kind of test with recording the same synth in the exact same timing from VST and DAW and then playing the recorded sound files at the same time would show a difference. If the sound quality would be 100% identical it should zero out itself. I hope you understand what I am talking about.

It would be interesting if someone did a test like that.

[selig]

I disagree - you CAN prove/disprove it! Just export both and compare, it’s not something to be left to others if it concerns you. The ability to compare two things and determine if there really is a difference (and choose which one you prefer if so) is an essential engineer/producer skill. It’s how you choose between any two options, from reverbs to compressors to EQ and so on.
The comparison test is simple but there are some important details.

A/B listening tests
Time is your enemy with comparing two audio examples. If you cannot freely switch back and forth quickly you cannot compare the fine details. Audio memory of fine details is fairly short, and the less time between comparisons the better - ideally you have a button that switches back and forth and you can just focus on hearing any change when switching. One trick here is to quickly click the button without looking (I like to use a hardware controller so I can close my eyes and switch). Once you don’t know which one you are hearing, start the listening test and see which one (if any) you prefer!

Classic null test
If you do a null test, remember to remove all variables, such as free run LFOS and random FX like algorithmic reverb etc. Also remember if there is a level difference the null will fail (even if it’s only 0.1 dB!). Finally, the null will also fail with a timing difference, even a 1 sample delay between the two audio files you are comparing. With a null test, a good null proves two things are the same (or VERY close, see above) while a failed null test only proves ONE of the above variables was not the same (spectrum, level, timing), but says nothing about which file is affected or by what variable. A one sample delay between the two files sounds similar to a 0.1 dB difference, but neither one would be perceived as sounding DIFFERENT from the other!.

Possible reasons for hearing a difference
The obvious one is the signal path. If you don’t compare JUST the Reason version vs the RRP version, for example if the other DAW has ANY processing (even subtle) anywhere in the audible signal path they will sound different. You have to be sure to remove all variables, especially level differences, to make a fair comparison. For example, folks have complained that the same sample sounds worse in Reason samplers than in other samplers - in all cases I’m aware of the ONLY difference was level/volume. Reason samplers have built in headroom so you can play multiple samples at once and not overload the outputs. Once levels were compared fairly, there was absolutely no difference! But initially those folks gave all sorts of sonic descriptions for the difference they heard, from ‘bigger’ ‘fatter’, ‘fuller’, and so on, all which proved to be simply a difference of volume. Remember ‘rule’ #1 with audio: Louder sounds better. It’s human nature, but all you have to do is remember to check levels - if you are concerned you are being fooled by levels when comparing two things, turn the preferred example DOWN by a decibel or two and compare again. If you still prefer the softer version, you’re most likely OK!

Finally, I can think of no technical reason for a sonic difference between the same instrument as plugin vs Reason DAW, nor have I ever heard one. But I remain open to either possibility until further testing reveals the answer!

[deeplink]

This conspiracy has been touted before, and was closed pretty quickly with a null test.

People mistake level differences with character or tone

[dioxide]

I can not prove it

Come back when you can.

[Billy+]

Is this another one of those

"Reason sound"

threads?

[Loque]

Is this another one of those

"Reason sound"

threads?

Yes.

63726c46ac0d7582387504.gif (764.84 KiB) Viewed 2048 times

[Popey]

I wondered if one daw had a master comp or limiter but then realised it must be the "reason sound"

In all seriousness though I have never noticed a difference but have never compared. Be interesting to see the results if someone tests this.

[Loque]

...Be interesting to see the results if someone tests this.

Waste of time...

[dvdrtldg]

Ah, the famous Reason Plugin Sound

[DaveyG]

I have to agree with the OP. I find that the sounds from many of the built-in instruments can change at the turn of a knob. It's crazy, man.

[huggermugger]

Ahhh, the Reason Sound™

[chimp_spanner]

They sound the same, don't worry about it.

[Jagwah]

[Propellerhands]

I noticed Reason 12 sounds better after 5 shots of liquor. Could be a fluke or could be a serious error on RStudios developers part.

[pushedbutton]

I noticed Reason 12 sounds better after 5 shots of liquor. Could be a fluke or could be a serious error on RStudios developers part.

I concur, can't prove it though. I also have a strong suspicion that Reason 12 sounds much better on a Friday night than it does on a Saturday afternoon.

[arnigretar]

Ah, the famous Reason Plugin Sound

lol

[robussc]

Hilarious, I had a friend tell me how much brighter the display on his Samsung phone compared to his work iPhone. I then turned up the brightness on his iPhone.

[Yonatan]

Will this thread survive to 2023? Or will RS release a A/B testing video before Christmas.

[Loque]

Hilarious, I had a friend tell me how much brighter the display on his Samsung phone compared to his work iPhone. I then turned up the brightness on his iPhone.

6375f4bb0fc64298792767.gif (990.68 KiB) Viewed 1274 times

[joeyluck]

This is the OP's first post. They created their account, created this thread, and they were last active 2 minutes after creating this thread four days ago.

Marking as solved

[selig]

I can now also confirm “solved”. Did a quick test with Europa in Reason and in LUNA and it was the same - same level, same frequency response, slightly (very slightly) different latency but otherwise the same. Case close?

[MuttReason]

I can now also confirm “solved”. Did a quick test with Europa in Reason and in LUNA and it was the same - same level, same frequency response, slightly (very slightly) different latency but otherwise the same. Case close?

Yep. Definitely closed. In fact, closed, wrapped in a lead shroud, sealed up inside a three inch-thick steel box, then buried far below the surface of the earth beneath five hundred feet of solid concrete. That should do it.

Seriously, these threads. It’s all zeros and ones folks, it’s not like the RRP is affected by humidity or atmospheric pressure or goes on the fritz when the house voltage sags or mellows over time as the tonewood matures. Digital, baby… what goes in, comes out…

[DaveyG]

Go on then, I'll keep it open a while longer.
Maybe the OP is using different audio settings in the Host DAW and the standalone Reason. Or maybe even different audio drivers.
Or maybe the OP is just trollin'

[Vincent Vitellius]

I did the test, and found a huge audible difference.

For the doubters, I can attest that I have followed every conceivable recommendation for proper audiophile testing.

Test setup
First I created a PsyTrance bassline in Reason DAW using Vital VST and some creative filtering plus reverb.
Exported to a wav

Then I opened a session in Ultimate Soundtracker 2.6, and added RRP as an instrument.
Since RRP does not load VST's I substituted Vital and all of the effects with a very similar ID8 piano sound.
Exported to wav.

Listening test and evaluation
When I compare the two wav-files, it's obvious that the Reason DAW version has better detail, transparency, dynamics, wider and deeper sound staging, micro detail, expanded dynamic range and layering. It's amazing how Reason DAW can give you tighter bass and yet sound relaxed. It's as if RRP brings vocal reproduction that's less solid and also less liquid with added hollowness and emptiness.
The sound stage of Reason DAW simply has more glamour and openness, the keystrokes are clearer, brighter, shinier with more distinct melodiousness and much more audible vibrato.
The additional sound information that was heard here meant that the instrument felt like it was right in my room.
Also the background noise was literally figuratively blacker. Everything that comes out of this black can only sound clearer and shinier.
What was not bad with RRP became a wow effect with Reason DAW. Because the force with which the occasional bass strikes now ended up in my pit of the stomach was phenomenal. A perfect mix of control, dynamics and bass power.
For me personally, the extra resolution is often too much. Not so here: All the sound enhancements that I have described above was the cherry on the cream.

So, there you have it: My scientific test proves that OP is totally not a troll.

[jam-s]

Ding! Ding! Ding! Bingo!