Reason 12.2.10 Release Notes

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avasopht
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Post 11 Nov 2022

LittleBoy wrote:
11 Nov 2022
And if you don't know how to develop a DAW with VST3 support in 2022, maybe you shouldn't charge €499 for a DAW. But they do.
Didn't RS say that they are not having difficulties with VST?

It's not as if RS all of a sudden became incompetent overnight ;)
Last edited by avasopht on 11 Nov 2022, edited 1 time in total.
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DaveyG
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Post 11 Nov 2022

joeyluck wrote:
10 Nov 2022
In fairness, Reason only started hosting VST 5 years ago. Ableton has been hosting VST for 18 years. And as mentioned, for 11 of those years (after VST3 was introduced by Steinberg) Ableton Live didn't have VST3 support.
Joey, you've spouted this garbage argument a number of times now and it really, really is garbage.
You are using the fact that RS (then Props) were astonishingly slow to implement VST2 as a justification for them being equally as slow to implement VST3. It just highlights how slow RS are to respond to anything. When NI's Maschine beats you to something you know you really are behind the times. "Hey, but we've always been behind the times" is not a justification.

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joeyluck
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Post 11 Nov 2022

DaveyG wrote:
11 Nov 2022
joeyluck wrote:
10 Nov 2022
In fairness, Reason only started hosting VST 5 years ago. Ableton has been hosting VST for 18 years. And as mentioned, for 11 of those years (after VST3 was introduced by Steinberg) Ableton Live didn't have VST3 support.
Joey, you've spouted this garbage argument a number of times now and it really, really is garbage.
You are using the fact that RS (then Props) were astonishingly slow to implement VST2 as a justification for them being equally as slow to implement VST3. It just highlights how slow RS are to respond to anything. When NI's Maschine beats you to something you know you really are behind the times. "Hey, but we've always been behind the times" is not a justification.
But VST was never on Reason's roadmap before. They were outspoken against it. It was certainly a hell has frozen over moment when we got it lol. You can't be behind on something while it isn't a part of the vision and goals for your product. It was a big shift and it was only a few years ago that Reason started supporting an external plugin format. I stand by my viewpoint on this :D

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gullum
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Post 11 Nov 2022

LittleBoy wrote:
11 Nov 2022
gullum wrote:
11 Nov 2022
If you can't make music without VST3 you are using the wrong drum sticks
And if you don't know how to develop a DAW with VST3 support in 2022, maybe you shouldn't charge €499 for a DAW. But they do.
you can get new drumsticks for less then that

RobBarnett
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Post 11 Nov 2022

Bouncing Mix channel to WAV taking ages now on Macbook Pro M1 Max 32Gb. Stuck at "waiting for pre-calculation to complete..." for at least 12mins while bouncing a single guitar track with very limited audio (only plays for 32 bars of an 88bpm song)

Anyone else noticed this?

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LittleBoy
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Post 11 Nov 2022

gullum wrote:
11 Nov 2022
LittleBoy wrote:
11 Nov 2022


And if you don't know how to develop a DAW with VST3 support in 2022, maybe you shouldn't charge €499 for a DAW. But they do.
you can get new drumsticks for less then that
That's not the point. I have licenses for Reason, Nuendo and Logic. And I have several thousand euros more in software. Komplete Collectors Edition, Arturia, Roland Cloud, etc. But I paid for a Reason license and various upgrades which Reason Studios charges as a professional product. The world is not ending because Reason doesn't have VST3 and Apple Silicon support, but I've been a Reason user since January 2001, and since then I've been paying for licenses and upgrades, and I have the right to complain if I think they do something wrong, of the same way I say it when they do something right, something I've done for years.

So no, the question is not whether I need VST3 to compose music, the question is whether Reason Studios is doing things right, and for some of us, the answer is no. And we have the same right to say what we think. You defend what you want, but let others do what they think is appropriate and do not respond with demagoguery.

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LittleBoy
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Post 11 Nov 2022

avasopht wrote:
11 Nov 2022
LittleBoy wrote:
11 Nov 2022
And if you don't know how to develop a DAW with VST3 support in 2022, maybe you shouldn't charge €499 for a DAW. But they do.
Didn't RS say that they are not having difficulties with VST?

It's not as if RS all of a sudden became incompetent overnight ;)
They are the only DAW with VST support that does not support VST3. If they are not having difficulties, then they are making fun of their users.

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tronam
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Post 11 Nov 2022

They’re working on it. It’s on the roadmap. What more do you want? Speed? If I could get out a push, I would. :)
Music is nothing else but wild sounds civilized into time and tune.

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joeyluck
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Post 11 Nov 2022

I feel like some people are talking about VST3 support here as if Reason Studios chimed in to say, "we're thinking about it". However we know that they are actively working on it and the roadmap says they hope to have it in our hands by the end of the year. We've known that since June.

I could go on about how much I want and need MPE support or video support. Neither of those are on the roadmap or have been mentioned as actively being developed. It's VST3. If you want VST3 in Reason, I would think it should be a time to celebrate because it's coming. We know they are working on it.

In terms of price, Ableton Live Suite is $749. Other things based on content, like Komplete is $599 for standard and $1199 for ultimate. And that's just content without a DAW. I would take Reason and the devices that come built-in over Komplete Standard any day.

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LittleBoy
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Post 11 Nov 2022

joeyluck wrote:
11 Nov 2022
I feel like some people are talking about VST3 support here as if Reason Studios chimed in to say, "we're thinking about it". However we know that they are actively working on it and the roadmap says they hope to have it in our hands by the end of the year. We've known that since June.

I could go on about how much I want and need MPE support or video support. Neither of those are on the roadmap or have been mentioned as actively being developed. It's VST3. If you want VST3 in Reason, I would think it should be a time to celebrate because it's coming. We know they are working on it.

In terms of price, Ableton Live Suite is $749. Other things based on content, like Komplete is $599 for standard and $1199 for ultimate. And that's just content without a DAW. I would take Reason and the devices that come built-in over Komplete Standard any day.
I also want support for video (the MPE is more indifferent to me). But you also have the right to ask for those improvements, and the only way to get them is to tell the developers that you want them. And if a developer gives me software or charges me a few euros, then I say nothing. But a software company that charges €499 for a professional program and €199 for each update, has to be willing to put up with complaints when it doesn't do things right, and if not, don't charge €499 for a program and €199 for a upgrade, or don't raise the price of your product after a botched upgrade that's also outdated because it doesn't support the latest technologies.

The roadmaps are changed, and the proof is that Reason Studios is a year behind the previous one. I will always applaud what Reason Studios does right, because I love Reason, but I will also tell them what I think they do wrong. And it's not about hating anyone or disrespecting anyone, but they are a company that sells products at professional prices, and if they do it wrong you have to tell them: "you're doing it wrong, be smart".

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avasopht
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Post 11 Nov 2022

LittleBoy wrote:
11 Nov 2022
They are the only DAW with VST support that does not support VST3. If they are not having difficulties, then they are making fun of their users.
How so?

Exactly what month was the cut-off (or other metric) to reach this conclusion?
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dioxide
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Post 12 Nov 2022

For those that want video, I'd be very surprised if they ever add this. It would open a whole new can of worms while there are still plenty of things the audio side needs.

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crimsonwarlock
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Post 12 Nov 2022

dioxide wrote:
12 Nov 2022
For those that want video, I'd be very surprised if they ever add this.
I would say that the Reason DAW is the least obvious platform to do music to video (in an integrated and effective way). Besides that, seeing that the Fairlight DAW inside Davinci Resolve is very actively being developed, any audio-first DAW will have a hard time to stay competitive in this domain.

With that in mind, I would actually question the decision if they would suddenly go and implement something like that. It would be throwing resources at a loosing game, which is always a bad idea.
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joeyluck
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Post 12 Nov 2022

I disagree about music for video not being a necessity. It doesn't have to be feature length films. More and more people are composing music for media. To think that most people nowadays are still only writing music to release singles and albums is a huge oversight for a popular reason why many musicians today are drawn to compose music.

For me, I would also just appreciate if the third party options worked correctly in Reason. As it now, things like VidPlayVST doesn't update he video while actively scrubbing, which makes it very difficult to find the correct spot for an event. It doesn't update the video in Reason until you release the mouse click on the playhead. This is not how it behaves in other DAWs.

And the a more simple approach to just printing audio to video in a compressed format would be great. Most people composing for video are not editing video, we just need to share the concept with the director/client.

Yonatan
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Post 12 Nov 2022

RS are late and behind their own original roadmap. What reasons are behind that, only they know. RS also updated roadmap to say they are having success so far in testing VST3, so they hope to be able to add that before end of this year.
Whatever, we know they are busy. Also it is a matter of priority. The Reason ship seem to have many apartments to it.
They create new devices, plan and work with future developments, update current devices, bug fixing (probably bigger time consumer than anyone wants it to be), Microsoft Windows/Apple iOS compatibility/Silicon, VST3 support...
And so many things which the non coders do. Who knows what they work with behind the scenes?

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crimsonwarlock
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Post 12 Nov 2022

joeyluck wrote:
12 Nov 2022
I disagree about music for video not being a necessity. It doesn't have to be feature length films. More and more people are composing music for media. To think that most people nowadays are still only writing music to release singles and albums is a huge oversight for a popular reason why many musicians today are drawn to compose music.
There is always a use case that validates some avenue of development. However, that doesn't always mean it is a viable option for a company to focus on such a use case. The point I was trying to make, is that most people who do video-related things, will use platforms that are more (or even specifically) tailored towards this kind of thing. Especially as something like Resolve is available for free, or even incredibly cheap for the pro-version. They implemented VST3 not too long ago, and although I didn't try it yet, chances are that RRP works in Fairlight now.

Let's look at this another way: If Reason Studios would implement video-features, it would be completely impossible for them to come even close to what something like Resolve brings in this regard (Fairlight is already incredibly powerful). We would soon see posts here about all the things other platforms have for video that are missing in Reason, followed by people stating that they have moved to something like Resolve because Reason is so f-ing bad at video. It is a no-brainer for Reason Studios to stay away from such a scenario.

Also, you don't really need video inside a DAW to be able to compose to visuals... Vangelis did it all the time :puf_wink:
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The smart thing to do is using a DAW because of what the DAW does, not because of what the company behind the DAW does.

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joeyluck
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Post 12 Nov 2022

Yeah and we can say that Reason doesn't need audio recording, because there are more advanced options if you want to record audio. We can say that about any feature Reason adds—there's more advanced options. My point is that music for media is a huge part of music composition today. Something basic, the Reason way, would be fine.

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crimsonwarlock
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Post 12 Nov 2022

joeyluck wrote:
12 Nov 2022
Yeah and we can say that Reason doesn't need audio recording, because there are more advanced options if you want to record audio.
That argument doesn't fly, as Reason obviously fills its own niche and does a whole bunch of things that other DAWs don't do (or do very poorly). In that regard, there actually are no other DAWs more advanced than Reason.

And in my opinion, the world really doesn't need more DAWs that do exactly what every other DAW does... as you can obviously use any other DAW that does that exact same thing already. Choice is always a good thing, but it has to be a choice between things that are different. Choosing between things that are the same is pretty useless :lol:
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The smart thing to do is using a DAW because of what the DAW does, not because of what the company behind the DAW does.

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joeyluck
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Post 12 Nov 2022

Yeah I get that. I'll just say this, and I know I'm probably sounding like a broken record, but composing to film/media is incredibly common and popularity is only rising and having video support is not a fancy extra feature, it's a feature needed by those who want to compose music for film. Musicians write music for picture.

Major film studios will more than likely be using Pro Tools, but that doesn't mean Logic shouldn't support video. Even GarageBand has video support. Ableton Live has video and that it is probably regarded in the same realm as Reason. People compose to video.

madmacman
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Post 12 Nov 2022

joeyluck wrote:
12 Nov 2022
Major film studios will more than likely be using Pro Tools, but that doesn't mean Logic shouldn't support video. Even GarageBand has video support. Ableton Live has video and that it is probably regarded in the same realm as Reason. People compose to video.
Yes, but no one would do serious Film scoring with GarageBand. If you want to add some fancy tunes - fine. But there‘s more to scoring than adding a video track. In this regard Logic is a major contender, especially with regards to sync between picture and audio. I currently have the demo of Studio One 6 on my machine. And it still is a p.i.t.a. (excuse my words) compared to other solutions. So I’m with crimsonwarlock: choose the right tool for the job done.

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Billy+
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Post 12 Nov 2022

joeyluck wrote:
12 Nov 2022
Yeah I get that. I'll just say this, and I know I'm probably sounding like a broken record, but composing to film/media is incredibly common and popularity is only rising and having video support is not a fancy extra feature, it's a feature needed by those who want to compose music for film. Musicians write music for picture.

Major film studios will more than likely be using Pro Tools, but that doesn't mean Logic shouldn't support video. Even GarageBand has video support. Ableton Live has video and that it is probably regarded in the same realm as Reason. People compose to video.
it's ok to sound like a broken record (me & vst midi) but at least i'm after a feature that really should have been there since we got vst support added.

As for video support I would have to agree with other and say it's just another feature that will require many more developer hours than Reason Studio developers have available which would just mean that the DAW stuff gets even more delayed.

I would suggest that most people interested in video would be choosing software that was already much more capable than Reason Studios could ever produce and you should probably look for one using rewire and running Reason 10 for the best experience ;)
Remember this - freedom of expression does not exist in this dojo.

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joeyluck
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Post 12 Nov 2022

Reason is for music making. And some people sound like they are saying it's only for releasing music as singles and albums. I disagree with that. That's all :)

And again, Ableton Live has video support. Why? Is it for feature length films? Probably not typical for Ableton Live. It's for composing music to picture...and I should also mention it's for sound design as well for projects that involve various types of visual media.

iTrensharo
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Post 12 Nov 2022

joeyluck wrote:
10 Nov 2022
LittleBoy wrote:
10 Nov 2022


In fairness, Ableton supports VST2, VST3, AU and AUv3 now.
In fairness, Reason only started hosting VST 5 years ago. Ableton has been hosting VST for 18 years. And as mentioned, for 11 of those years (after VST3 was introduced by Steinberg) Ableton Live didn't have VST3 support.

It's funny to think that we might not even be having this conversation if Reason never introduced VST support. And I'm guessing a large majority of users would bet their money on Reason never having VST support when asked prior to Reason 9.5.
Correct, because about half the people who are even posting in this thread are likely to have abandoned it a long time ago for lacking it. They added it for a reason (unintended pun). Feeling charitable is not that reason (ugh...). If it were, people wouldn't still be asking for this :-P

As for Ableton Live's VST3 support, it's fine that they took 11 years, because they got it out of the door when it mattered... Ableton pretty much ran par with the 8 ball. By the time plug-ins started launching without VST2 and/or even dropping VST2, Ableton already had the necessary VST3 support. Reason does not, so the situation is not the same and mentioning how long it took Ableton to get VST3 support does nothing but distract from the urgency of the issue.

How long it took Ableton is completely irrelevant. Their users aren't the ones asking for this.

iTrensharo
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Post 12 Nov 2022

Billy+ wrote:
12 Nov 2022
I would suggest that most people interested in video would be choosing software that was already much more capable than Reason Studios could ever produce and you should probably look for one using rewire and running Reason 10 for the best experience ;)
ReWire is being dropped like a hot potato in every DAW that supports it.

Anyone who relies on a workflow like this should be looking for ways to jump ship, not dig into it - which will require them to stick with increasingly older versions of various software packages to maintain it.

Good Luck with that, especially if you're a macOS user.

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Billy+
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Post 12 Nov 2022

iTrensharo wrote:
12 Nov 2022
Billy+ wrote:
12 Nov 2022
I would suggest that most people interested in video would be choosing software that was already much more capable than Reason Studios could ever produce and you should probably look for one using rewire and running Reason 10 for the best experience ;)
ReWire is being dropped like a hot potato in every DAW that supports it.

Anyone who relies on a workflow like this should be looking for ways to jump ship, not dig into it - which will require them to stick with increasingly older versions of various software packages to maintain it.

Good Luck with that, especially if you're a macOS user.
I agree with everything you have said and it's sad but true - nothing new is worth buying and although it's where we are it doesn't mean we have to financially support them and the bulls**t they are selling.
Remember this - freedom of expression does not exist in this dojo.

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