Reason 12.2.9 Release Notes

[mimidancer]

I am sure. just tested it for you. set up a 2by2 in bluecat. Left slide load scaler. Right side load your vst.

its not routing the midi into an RE its loading a vst inside bluecat which is total not what im asking for................

i guess we are going to have to agree to disagree

roll on 2025 maybe just maybe we might get a daw with 2000's technology fully implemented

I don't understand the difference, the midi can be routed to whatever you want. What is the issue?

[crimsonwarlock]

... also made them available as standalone, but few seem to do that.

If you are on Windows, you can load VST midi-plugins into (free) VSThost and then route midi out and into Reason (probably need a virtual midi cable). Basically the same as using it as standalone.

https://www.hermannseib.com/english/vsthost.htm

[Billy+]

its not routing the midi into an RE its loading a vst inside bluecat which is total not what im asking for................

i guess we are going to have to agree to disagree

roll on 2025 maybe just maybe we might get a daw with 2000's technology fully implemented

I don't understand the difference, the midi can be routed to whatever you want. What is the issue?

It's a workflow thing I guess, I generally don't keep scaler or captain in a project once it's job is done and having to pull it all apart is a pain.

Then I also generally edit the midi after I have dropped it into the main sequencer lanes.

I guess like I said previously it isn't a huge problem especially as I'm fine working with midi vst's in Live it would just have been nice to see it finally implemented in Reason especially as they are working on the code,

but hey I understand priorities and although it's disappointing it's definitely not going to stop me using Reason but it has convinced me to try other daws and now that I have it's going to take more now to convince me to upgrade in the future and the knock on effect is I'm not entirely interested in buying anything for Reason and haven't purchased anything since R12 release, all my money has gone to vst developers.

[EnochLight]

its not routing the midi into an RE its loading a vst inside bluecat which is totally not what im asking for................

I don't understand the difference, the midi can be routed to whatever you want. What is the issue?

Can the MIDI be routed to a Rack Extension outside of Bluecat? If so, please show Billy+ how, as that's the crux of his issue, I think...

[mimidancer]

I don't understand the difference, the midi can be routed to whatever you want. What is the issue?

Can the MIDI be routed to a Rack Extension outside of Bluecat? If so, please show Billy+ how, as that's the crux of his issue, I think...

to get the midi on the on the reason sequencer is just drag and drop. Just put your mouse on the drag button then drop on sequencer. Very much like the roland cloud vsts.Just tested it. Works.

[deigm]

I don't know why they wouldn't implement midi out (if it's on the list it seems like now would be the time) but I doubt they're not doing it on purpose to protect the player market. That would be dumb. A complete implementation makes for a better product. And a better product is easier to sell. More copies sold, bigger market to sell players to.
However if you disallow something then people will just go around you. Just look at prohibition

Alternatively, they could DELAY the introduction of VST3 support until they've implemented VST MIDI and any other missing VST feature.

Honestly I'd prefer this. If it's worth doing its worth doing properly. Do it right the first time or it won't get done. How many of us still have unpacked boxes in the attic from the last time we moved house..

Seems kind of like painting a whole house except for one room for the sake of 'finishing' faster. Ultimately it takes more time and energy to drag out the drop sheets and paint cans a second time. All that effort for one room? Hardly seems worth it. Maybe next year..

[EnochLight]

Alternatively, they could DELAY the introduction of VST3 support until they've implemented VST MIDI and any other missing VST feature.

Honestly I'd prefer this. If it's worth doing its worth doing properly.

Except that:

https://helpcenter.steinberg.de/hc/en-u ... scontinued

As of January 19, 2022 - VST2 is officially discontinued, and over the next 2 years (at this point, a little over 1 year) Steinberg's host applications and plug-ins across macOS and Windows will offer VST 3 compatibility only.

Frankly, Reason Studios should just 100% stop with future VST2 development/support and only focus on VST3 at this point, IMHO. There's no more support for it via Steinberg, and while they probably didn't reach out to them a lot for Reason 9.5's implementation (which has largely stayed the same), now they are 100% cut off from any support. I'm all for proper VST MIDI implementation in Reason DAW, but do it in VST3 and call it day.

[Billy+]

Alternatively, they could DELAY the introduction of VST3 support until they've implemented VST MIDI and any other missing VST feature.

Honestly I'd prefer this. If it's worth doing its worth doing properly.

Except that:

https://helpcenter.steinberg.de/hc/en-u ... scontinued

As of January 19, 2022 - VST2 is officially discontinued, and over the next 2 years (at this point, a little over 1 year) Steinberg's host applications and plug-ins across macOS and Windows will offer VST 3 compatibility only.

Frankly, Reason Studios should just 100% stop with future VST2 development/support and only focus on VST3 at this point, IMHO. There's no more support for it via Steinberg, and while they probably didn't reach out to them a lot for Reason 9.5's implementation (which has largely stayed the same), now they are 100% cut off from any support. I'm all for proper VST MIDI implementation in Reason DAW, but do it in VST3 and call it day.

Please correct me if I'm wrong but are you suggesting that daw's including Reason should just drop vst2.4 support and discontinue the use of the thousands of current plugins?

[deigm]

Alternatively, they could DELAY the introduction of VST3 support until they've implemented VST MIDI and any other missing VST feature.

Honestly I'd prefer this. If it's worth doing its worth doing properly.

Except that:

https://helpcenter.steinberg.de/hc/en-u ... scontinued

To clarify, I'm saying I'd prefer they delay VST3 until they implement midi out into VST3. This is a lot more important because it will have an influence moving forward. VST2 midi out would be nice too, but if it never happens that's far more understandable, for the reason you point out

[EnochLight]

Please correct me if I'm wrong but are you suggesting that daw's including Reason should just drop vst2.4 support and discontinue the use of the thousands of current plugins?

No, I'm saying that Reason Studios should not spend any more development time furthering VST 2 in Reason DAW, and just focus on VST 3 and make it fully supported. But absolutely leave the current VST 2 implementation in.

To clarify, I'm saying I'd prefer they delay VST3 until they implement midi out into VST3.

I hear you, and I actually 100% agree!

[JiggeryPokery]

New bug in 12.2.9. Definitely not in 12.2.8 (or whatever the previous stable table was).

There's a scenario that might prevent the first bar of certain tracks of a song rendering correctly. It might very limited in nature, to just the singular VSTi series noted here, or it might be more prevalent. For now I've only seen this in MusicLab VSTis—and frankly it's the only thing I have I'm likely to find it in—but potentially it could affect some VSTis you might have if it's using similar onboard MIDI event triggering.

The first two bars are played here twice. In the first take, the previous R12.2.8 render, you can hear a "live" doubled guitar, and a pre-rendered alternate quiet mono on the right.

render bug.mp3

(446.06 KiB) Downloaded 74 times

On the second you can only hear the right pre-rendered mono track, and the fret effects of the live track for the first bars. This is actually fairly consistent render behaviour on multiple MusicLab guitars in Reason, where the song starts with a device being triggered.

rg.png (355.02 KiB) Viewed 4096 times

So, this setup is fine to trigger the chords during playback**. This failure to trigger at the start of the song render then is very curious. I've tried adding an empty extra bar etc too. Interestingly, this rendering bug appears, at the moment at least, to affect only these keyswitch-triggered Chord generation modes, not the "Solo" guitar mode. This does maybe implicate the older and still-present Pattern Mode bug** was also some quirk in Reason's MIDI handling.

To further complicate matters, on another track, I've never got it to render correctly under 12.2.9, across at least two separate cold-boot sessions, and was forced to bounce the track (which, and this makes no fscking sense, managed to get it rendered just dandy, thank you very much), yet annoyingly the attached file, OTOH, seems to have rendered ok after a Reason restart. But a second track still hasn't. So there's something frustratingly quirky going on. (Pre-Edit: Two restarts later, it has now... ). One possibility might be using different sample or bit rate settings at export, but, that doesn't feel like a consistent cause. :

There's something else I need to check up on regarding exporting that I do think is sample-rate based, but I need to run those tests again to confirm it under the latest Reason build. But if anyone else has heard (or not heard) something unexpected on export, there might be something moderately systematic (if you'll excuse the oxymoron!) going on.

_______
**This went way too far into a tangent, so becomes a postscript: It doesn't properly work as an old bug involving Pattern Mode (to the uninitiated think of it as an onboard sequencer) in Reason 9.5 was never fixed, where it worked just fine in the R9.5 beta [albeit on an earlier version of RealGuitar, to be fair], where Patterns only play in Reason when the song is stopped and you trigger the pattern via keyboard; play the notes prerecorded via the sequencer and it doesn't work. I never got to the bottom of whether the bug was on the Reason or in that later generation of MusicLab's MIDI handling; last I heard from ML at the time, RS never got back to ML about it after they sent them testing licenses, c'est la vie...

[Pepin]

New bug in 12.2.9. Definitely not in 12.2.8 (or whatever the previous stable table was).

Have you tried messing with the new multithreading settings to see if it makes a difference?

[JiggeryPokery]

New bug in 12.2.9. Definitely not in 12.2.8 (or whatever the previous stable table was).

Have you tried messing with the new multithreading settings to see if it makes a difference?

Ironically, I did turn off SMT this morning for the first time in years as I was experiencing some unexpected DSP spiking and I wondered if disabling it might help (er... dunno, might have done, might not, I think it was more likely I just had two songfiles open by mistake ). But no, for this render issue I first noticed it this last week, tbh, really today was just a confirming "it's not me, it's you" behaviour as it's in a totally different song file, on a different VSTi [in the ML product range], and so has also occurred with both SMT off and on.

I had issues with a particular Song Render where I had an Ammo, but that was definitely occurring in the previous Reason release. My working theory there, was a fairly recent bug introduced to Reason where there's some conflict with sample rate conversion from the loaded wavetable BLOB creation at Reason/device startup runtime, and where the song is being rendered with a different sample rate. e.g. Running Reason at 48k, but rendering at 44.1k.

Edit: Yeah, just running multiple consecutive renders on a different MusicLab track, interestingly this one is using the solo mode, so it's not a MIDI triggering error for sure. :/ But rendering at the same sample rate seems to pick up the first bar. This certainly would explain why a Bounce to Track worked, as of course that's using the current audio driver sample rate.

[Re8et]

Alternatively, they could DELAY the introduction of VST3 support until they've implemented VST MIDI and any other missing VST feature.

Honestly I'd prefer this. If it's worth doing its worth doing properly.

Except that:

https://helpcenter.steinberg.de/hc/en-u ... scontinued

As of January 19, 2022 - VST2 is officially discontinued, and over the next 2 years (at this point, a little over 1 year) Steinberg's host applications and plug-ins across macOS and Windows will offer VST 3 compatibility only.

Frankly, Reason Studios should just 100% stop with future VST2 development/support and only focus on VST3 at this point, IMHO. There's no more support for it via Steinberg, and while they probably didn't reach out to them a lot for Reason 9.5's implementation (which has largely stayed the same), now they are 100% cut off from any support. I'm all for proper VST MIDI implementation in Reason DAW, but do it in VST3 and call it day.

Uhu . what about retro-compatibility?? Wouldn't drop support cause some malfunction??

[EnochLight]

Uhu . what about retro-compatibility?? Wouldn't drop support cause some malfunction??

I suggested they stop developing VST2, not drop support. Sorry for the confusion. Of course leave it in Reason in its current form for backwards compatibility in projects, but all future development (and support) should be VST 3.

[Billy+]

Uhu . what about retro-compatibility?? Wouldn't drop support cause some malfunction??

I suggested they stop developing VST2, not drop support. Sorry for the confusion. Of course leave it in Reason in its current form for backwards compatibility in projects, but all future development (and support) should be VST 3.

I still say it needs a bit more functionality (midi vst support)

And I still think that a player style pass through would definitely be the Reason way of doing it so you could stack them (vst + players)

[EnochLight]

I still say it needs a bit more functionality (midi vst support)

VST 2? I mean, you can say it all you want, but it doesn't change the reality that VST 2 is abandoned/deprecated by Steinberg. MIDI VST support in VST 3 in Reason, all the way!

And I still think that a player style pass through would definitely be the Reason way of doing it so you could stack them (vst + players)

I agree, and this would work nicely in VST 3.

[whitewolfmusic]

Good update. I know you are busy with VST3 'n stuff, but could you guys finally have a look at the inconsistent width of the graphics of rack devices? This really triggers me. The rack looks half-assed and messy these days.

[mind2069]

Good update. I know you are busy with VST3 'n stuff, but could you guys finally have a look at the inconsistent width of the graphics of rack devices? This really triggers me. The rack looks half-assed and messy these days.

Tell me about it, it painful to watch, the combinator/devices not reaching full width looks so amateur.

It's like everything was done so quickly and botched and that's a year after release, I can just imagine how bad 12 was on first release.

I fear it will never be addressed as a year later, they are still struggling, plus I think they don't really care about the DAW anymore.

[jam-s]

Good update. I know you are busy with VST3 'n stuff, but could you guys finally have a look at the inconsistent width of the graphics of rack devices? This really triggers me. The rack looks half-assed and messy these days.

I think that's by design so that a mix channel now can host more than one combinator (v2) patch. So I think we're stuck with this just as we're stuck with the downgrade of the mixer where the insert FX knobs were simply ripped out.

[Pepin]

The gap is very much intentional, because Combinators can now be placed inside mix channel inserts.
In the rack plugin, there is no gap, because there are no mix channels.

[mind2069]

The gap is very much intentional, because Combinators can now be placed inside mix channel inserts.
In the rack plugin, there is no gap, because there are no mix channels.

I know, but it's awful to look at, I guess there were no solution

Just had another look a Reason 11 and when opened, the mix channel could have had thinner sides, then everything would of look good in all cases (maybe)

[Danilo Villanova]

I’ve been using Reaper for so long that nothing about Reason seems amateurish

[Steedus]

I got over the gaps in the rack very quickly. I just wish they updated the wood rails. It's a stupid little aesthetic thing, but something I'd definitely appreciate haha.

[Loque]

I got over the gaps in the rack very quickly. I just wish they updated the wood rails. It's a stupid little aesthetic thing, but something I'd definitely appreciate haha.

Yea, told Soundtoys the same with their UI, but they won't listen. Can't: believe they can still sell their products...

And Moog uses wood for synths in the 21st century too... Unbelievable...