How to sidechain in Reason, exactly? Is there an easy way?

[Propellerhands]

Noob question.

Basically I am interested only in making my sustained bass lines to sound in tandem with a beat. There was a tutorial on YouTube how to route MClassCompressor to Redrum and then to instrument you want to sidechain, pad, or bass, but the result is kinda wonky in my opinion and does not sound the same as people do in Ableton for example, because Ableton has simple sidechain dropdown menus and routs everything under the hood.

Maybe right now it is easier to do with some presets in Reason 12? Because routing cables was always a hassle for me.

Also the problem is what if my bassline has two parts, one is sub bass and another mid bass? To which channel I should use sidechain? Both or just sub?

P.S. dear mods, if it is wrong sub, please move to appropriate sub, only now I noticed my error.

[fullforce]

Noob question.

Basically I am interested only in making my sustained bass lines to sound in tandem with a beat. There was a tutorial on YouTube how to route MClassCompressor to Redrum and then to instrument you want to sidechain, pad, or bass, but the result is kinda wonky in my opinion and does not sound the same as people do in Ableton for example, because Ableton has simple sidechain dropdown menus and routs everything under the hood.

Maybe right now it is easier to do with some presets in Reason 12? Because routing cables was always a hassle for me.

Also the problem is what if my bassline has two parts, one is sub bass and another mid bass? To which channel I should use sidechain? Both or just sub?

P.S. dear mods, if it is wrong sub, please move to appropriate sub, only now I noticed my error.

There is literally a sidechain input on any mixer channel. Can't take more than 5 minutes to look this shit up on youtube.

[Propellerhands]

There is literally a sidechain input on any mixer channel. Can't take more than 5 minutes to look this shit up on youtube.

Found this video on youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1CKvZj ... LL&index=2

could you quickly look it up and tell me if this is it? I did not image it was this simple right now , shame on me.

[PhillipOrdonez]

There's so many ways to do pumping effect in Reason. The fastest: use synchronous with the sidechain preset and you're done.

Regarding your bass question, on where to put it: it depends. Do you want the effect to be prominent and user it as a sound effect like Prydz call on me? Put it on the bass bus (both sub and top bass). Do you intend to use this for mixing purposes to keep the low end clean, put it only in the sub. Simple.

[eXode]

My preferred approach is to use an output bus for the tracks I want sidechained. I create a Sweeper effect insert in that bus and configure it the way I want. I use the Gate output of the kick of either Redrum or Kong to trigger the Sweeper envelope. Depending on the source material I can choose to use a Redrum as a ghost kick to trigger the sidechain. The advantage of using Sweeper is that you can tweak the sidechain curve, or shape, to your liking.

sidechain_1_front.png (592.49 KiB) Viewed 4952 times

sidechain_2_back.png (809.37 KiB) Viewed 4952 times

[eXode]

With the above approach you can send any channel you like to the Sidechain channel, so it's great if you want to add the sidechain effect to several channels at once. You just right click the channel that you want sidechain on and choose Route to... and then select the Sidechain channel.

In this test/study, for an example, I've used sidechain on both the bass and the lead.

[chimp_spanner]

My favourite method atm is using Devious Machines Duck VST, strapping it onto a bus with the things I want side chained and then just triggering by MIDI (or gate out if the source instrument has it).

If I’m doing audio, I use send 8, into a spider, and then in the SSL enable send 8 for the kick to 0dB. Then I can just cable that up to whatever; mix channel SC input, whatever.

There’s also a trick you can do on Sweeper where you use the envelope to go from silent to 0dB and trigger the envelope with MIDI or gate CV. Then - important part - you flip the phase (there are utilities in the shop that can do this). Set it up as a send effect and then you can send multiple channels to it, at varying amounts, and side chain that way (by basically cancelling the signal out with a phase inverted version of itself). This is how Pump RE works in Send mode. Great little device but the dev closed up shop and you can’t get it anymore.

I’ll do a video on this when I’m back home!

[thedude]

Is there any advantage to using sweeper vs synchronous? Or is it just a different workflow? I am guessing i am not fussy because i generally get the effect i need using synchronous.

[stillifegaijin]

There is literally a sidechain input on any mixer channel. Can't take more than 5 minutes to look this shit up on youtube.

Found this video on youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1CKvZj ... LL&index=2

could you quickly look it up and tell me if this is it? I did not image it was this simple right now , shame on me.

Yes, that Kickback Couture video is totally correct. You can also route both your bass tracks into a bus channel and compress that channel that the same way.

Not a dumb question at all. It’s not at all obvious and that snarky comment by fullforce was 100% unnecessary troll crap.

Have fun.

[eXode]

Is there any advantage to using sweeper vs synchronous? Or is it just a different workflow? I am guessing i am not fussy because i generally get the effect i need using synchronous.

If I understand correctly you have to paint the sidechain in Synchronous, which might be tedious if you are not sidechaining a regular 4/4 beat. The Sweeper approach is better if you are doing other type of beats. But if you only do four on the floor type of drums then Synchronous is sufficient.

[eXode]

Here's a simple example in R12 song format that I threw together just now. I use a pretty steep curve to over emphasize the effect but you can adjust it to your liking.
Note that I'm using Sweeper set to completely DRY as I don't want the effect to color the sound, I only use it for the volume/amplitude modulation.

[PhillipOrdonez]

Indeed, using an envelope follower for the offbeat kicks is the way to go.

[selig]

Indeed, using an envelope follower for the offbeat kicks is the way to go.

Triggers also work well for these kicks, because you can adjust the curve shape. Use Sweeper for this as Exode explains above either directly or with sends/inverted. Another advantage of Sweeper is if you only have audio for your kick, it can be used either as envelope follower OR as trigger for the built in envelope. Another advantage of the envelope approach is the ability to easily time the effect, an advantage of the envelope follower is the ability to include dynamics. Or combine the two for even more fun!!! ')

[RobC]

Nothing is more flexible and easy, than automating the volume of whatever you want to pump, in the sequencer. You can get the most creative with it!

For full accuracy, either you have to nudge things a bit in the sequencer, in case you work at 44.1 kHz sample rate, or you have to choose higher sample rates for better accuracy; since automation/CV only runs at 1/64th of the sample rate, I think. Why? Because... reasons? x D

[Propellerhands]

There's so many ways to do pumping effect in Reason. The fastest: use synchronous with the sidechain preset and you're done.

Regarding your bass question, on where to put it: it depends. Do you want the effect to be prominent and user it as a sound effect like Prydz call on me? Put it on the bass bus (both sub and top bass). Do you intend to use this for mixing purposes to keep the low end clean, put it only in the sub. Simple.

Couldn't expect better explanation, thank you so much!

Basically I just want my kick not to mask the bass and vice versa, don't want that EDM "pumping". Truth is, I am noob when it comes to sidechain and never did it (majority of my music is beatless anyway), but after some people complained about my bass being washed out, decided to finally learn it and keep using it.

My preferred approach is to use an output bus for the tracks I want sidechained. I create a Sweeper effect insert in that bus and configure it the way I want. I use the Gate output of the kick of either Redrum or Kong to trigger the Sweeper envelope. Depending on the source material I can choose to use a Redrum as a ghost kick to trigger the sidechain. The advantage of using Sweeper is that you can tweak the sidechain curve, or shape, to your liking.

Sounds much more advanced to me but will definitely experiment with it! Appreciate it! I found your way is very good effect in itself, almost zoned out playing with simple reverbed sound with pumping effect.

Nothing is more flexible and easy, than automating the volume of whatever you want to pump, in the sequencer. You can get the most creative with it!

For full accuracy, either you have to nudge things a bit in the sequencer, in case you work at 44.1 kHz sample rate, or you have to choose higher sample rates for better accuracy; since automation/CV only runs at 1/64th of the sample rate, I think. Why? Because... reasons? x D

Flexible, yes, time consuming? Also yes You see, I am super lazy when it comes to "perfecting my music", I just create an idea, export to WAV and forget it until album release. Maybe do some light EQ pre-release.

Thanks to all the people who helped me out! I know this question been probably asked here gazillion of times.

[Propellerhands]

Here's a simple example in R12 song format that I threw together just now. I use a pretty steep curve to over emphasize the effect but you can adjust it to your liking.
Note that I'm using Sweeper set to completely DRY as I don't want the effect to color the sound, I only use it for the volume/amplitude modulation.

Thank you, very helpful! By the way, what was the point of the Matrix near the Bass? It does not do anything when I disconnected it
Also as I noticed, I should always synchronise Sweeper's envelope rate and Redrum rate, correct?

Inspiring little track!

[selig]

Basically I just want my kick not to mask the bass and vice versa, don't want that EDM "pumping". Truth is, I am noob when it comes to side chain and never did it (majority of my music is beatless anyway), but after some people complained about my bass being washed out, decided to finally learn it and keep using it.

Kick can’t mask the bass if it’s a traditional short kick. It doesn’t last long enough to ‘clash’ in my experience.
Let’s simplify and go back to square one. People say the bass is washed out. You assume this means you need to use side chain.
If you’ll indulge me, it’s possible you’re asking for the wrong ‘solution’ instead of addressing the original issue.
IF you want to explore your washed out bass issue, can you start by posting an example of the problem? Words can only go so far and can be confused as to the exact meaning. But an audio example speaks for itself.

[eXode]

Here's a simple example in R12 song format that I threw together just now. I use a pretty steep curve to over emphasize the effect but you can adjust it to your liking.
Note that I'm using Sweeper set to completely DRY as I don't want the effect to color the sound, I only use it for the volume/amplitude modulation.

Thank you, very helpful! By the way, what was the point of the Matrix near the Bass? It does not do anything when I disconnected it
Also as I noticed, I should always synchronise Sweeper's envelope rate and Redrum rate, correct?

Inspiring little track!

Haha, no I used the Matrix to sequence a bass initially, but I changed it to a sustained bass instead.

No you don't have to sync the Redum rate with Sweeper, I just happened to set it up like that because the beat was half time, but you can experiment with Sweepers time and using different shapes, it's just a starting point really.

[huggermugger]

The easiest way to sidechain is to learn how to set up and use a sidechain. The logic behind a sidechain is the same, regardless of the plugin, the DAW, or the rackmount device. All you have to do is learn the basic tools, like learning a compressor. Then you can sidechain like a pro in any situation where actual sidechaining is required (as opposed to automated volume control, a la Synchronous).

[PhillipOrdonez]

Basically I just want my kick not to mask the bass and vice versa, don't want that EDM "pumping". Truth is, I am noob when it comes to side chain and never did it (majority of my music is beatless anyway), but after some people complained about my bass being washed out, decided to finally learn it and keep using it.

Kick can’t mask the bass if it’s a traditional short kick. It doesn’t last long enough to ‘clash’ in my experience.
Let’s simplify and go back to square one. People say the bass is washed out. You assume this means you need to use side chain.
If you’ll indulge me, it’s possible you’re asking for the wrong ‘solution’ instead of addressing the original issue.
IF you want to explore your washed out bass issue, can you start by posting an example of the problem? Words can only go so far and can be confused as to the exact meaning. But an audio example speaks for itself.

This, OP. Listen to Selig! I don't even know what washed out bass is supposed to mean. Maybe it is too wide? Lacks definition?

[Propellerhands]

Kick can’t mask the bass if it’s a traditional short kick. It doesn’t last long enough to ‘clash’ in my experience.
Let’s simplify and go back to square one. People say the bass is washed out. You assume this means you need to use side chain.
If you’ll indulge me, it’s possible you’re asking for the wrong ‘solution’ instead of addressing the original issue.
IF you want to explore your washed out bass issue, can you start by posting an example of the problem? Words can only go so far and can be confused as to the exact meaning. But an audio example speaks for itself.

This, OP. Listen to Selig! I don't even know what washed out bass is supposed to mean. Maybe it is too wide? Lacks definition?

It was an older track of mine, the problem was that I only mixed it through headphones and did not have proper monitors (now I do) to check if my bass is even heard during track's chorus part when all the drums kick in. Found out later that I can't hear the bass properly when the beat starts. It could be many problems, from lack of EQ, lack of sub bass, to improper overall sound balance. I won't come back to that particular track to fix it. What's done is done.

But my problem with my music in general is how to make a bass sound good while the drums are going. I do not want this pumping effect like in EDM music, on contrary, I just want subtle compression perhaps (don't know how to explain). I thought I could achieve this by using sidechain on my bass. Tried it on my recent track and I basically hear too much pumping, if I reduce the threshhold, then I am not sure if it is working at all. Can't use monitors during the night to compare.

P.S. Selig, if you would take a listen on your free time, I could send you that particular track privately since don't wanna dox myself. I am a bit protective of my music too until it is released then I just don't care.

[eXode]

Well, as always there is not just one method to get from A to B. Sidechaining inevitably often lands in pumping EDM land, but you could tweak to make it more subtle, by not setting the volume/amp modulation to max, if using the sweeper. Another thing to consider is EQ, like you mentioned.

In this Algorithm demo/showcase song I'm using a pretty short envelope (a 16th of a note) for the ducking, plus it doesn't fully duck the bass, the Sweeper mod amount is set to 79%. I think this works well for carving some space for kick without getting that EDM pump.

[DamFlarden]

My preferred approach is to use an output bus for the tracks I want sidechained. I create a Sweeper effect insert in that bus and configure it the way I want. I use the Gate output of the kick of either Redrum or Kong to trigger the Sweeper envelope. Depending on the source material I can choose to use a Redrum as a ghost kick to trigger the sidechain. The advantage of using Sweeper is that you can tweak the sidechain curve, or shape, to your liking.


sidechain_1_front.png sidechain_2_back.png

Why do you use a ghost kick? because of a short tail?

[eXode]

My preferred approach is to use an output bus for the tracks I want sidechained. I create a Sweeper effect insert in that bus and configure it the way I want. I use the Gate output of the kick of either Redrum or Kong to trigger the Sweeper envelope. Depending on the source material I can choose to use a Redrum as a ghost kick to trigger the sidechain. The advantage of using Sweeper is that you can tweak the sidechain curve, or shape, to your liking.


sidechain_1_front.png sidechain_2_back.png

Why do you use a ghost kick? because of a short tail?

I don't always use a ghost kick, and I guess the more correct term would be trigger. Like I said it depends on the source material, if I for some reason can't trigger from the kick directly (i.e. because I use a VST that doesn't offer gate outs) I can use a Redrum that follows the kick to trigger the sidechain envelope.

[selig]

Why do you use a ghost kick? because of a short tail?

I don't always use a ghost kick, and I guess the more correct term would be trigger. Like I said it depends on the source material, if I for some reason can't trigger from the kick directly (i.e. because I use a VST that doesn't offer gate outs) I can use a Redrum that follows the kick to trigger the sidechain envelope.

Have you had any luck using Sweeper to convert to a trigger? Seems it would be simpler than creating a new device and copying the kick pattern, but I’ve only used it to trigger drum samples…