How to sidechain in Reason, exactly? Is there an easy way?

[dan_g]

hmm, yeah i wouldn't mind if you made a little video. could you also do with a basic audio example? and you are saying the cv is triggering the volumeshaper perfectly anytime the kick or snare will hit? because i bought volumeshaper and contacted cableguys customer support and they said no sidechaining lol. so i guess neither did they or me know about a combi cv workaround???

but yeah would like to see the video, thank you

yep, it will trigger on every cv hit you send to it. i struggled with it too and i'm happy to share my knowledge to all that might have the same problem.

will be doing a video very very soon

[tomusurp]

hmm, yeah i wouldn't mind if you made a little video. could you also do with a basic audio example? and you are saying the cv is triggering the volumeshaper perfectly anytime the kick or snare will hit? because i bought volumeshaper and contacted cableguys customer support and they said no sidechaining lol. so i guess neither did they or me know about a combi cv workaround???

but yeah would like to see the video, thank you

yep, it will trigger on every cv hit you send to it. i struggled with it too and i'm happy to share my knowledge to all that might have the same problem.

will be doing a video very very soon

yessir can't wait, we Reason users are a one of a kind breed and must grow together.

cableguys: "No we don't have sidechain"
Reason: "Hold my beer"

[RandomSkratch]

I think the terminology has been lost along the years.

Normally you feed a signal into a compressor and compress said signal on its own based on threshold, ratio, etc.

A sidechain input allowed you to compress a signal based on a DIFFERENT audio signal (fed into the sidechain input). This is where the "pumping" effect came from. You would need two audio signals:
1. The signal that is going to have the pumping/ducking effect
2. The signal that is going to cause the pumping/ducking effect (ie, kick drum).

The Attack and Release settings on the compressor determined the volume envelope curve.

(aside, the sidechain input could also be fed with a high passed version of the original signal so the low end frequencies wouldn't overpower the compression circuit, or also this is how a de-esser works too)

So originally if you wanted that pumping effect you needed 2 AUDIO signals.

Next came the volume shapers which eliminated the need for two audio signals. This emulated the above effect but instead of feeding something into a sidechain input (remember, this is audio), you would just trigger the device with a midi note (or gate).

On a volume shaper you do not need a sidechain input.

[dan_g]

yessir can't wait, we Reason users are a one of a kind breed and must grow together.

cableguys: "No we don't have sidechain"
Reason: "Hold my beer"

as promised, here is my quick video. uncut and with a really bad german accent . but i think you will geht the point.
just a quick headsup. i forgot to mention to set volumeshaper to Midi Trigger is required for this to work properly but i think you can see it in the video.

there you go.
BR,
Daniel

[tomusurp]

thanks a lot bro! really well done and easy to follow along. the great option is the band split. but i feel like selig, chimp, or exode might be able to route a way to do this native as well

by the way what is that polymodular thing all over your racks? i subed to your channel , would love to see anymore tutorials if you have other cool things to share

yessir can't wait, we Reason users are a one of a kind breed and must grow together.

cableguys: "No we don't have sidechain"
Reason: "Hold my beer"

as promised, here is my quick video. uncut and with a really bad german accent . but i think you will geht the point.
just a quick headsup. i forgot to mention to set volumeshaper to Midi Trigger is required for this to work properly but i think you can see it in the video.

there you go.
BR,
Daniel

[RandomSkratch]

thanks a lot bro! really well done and easy to follow along. the great option is the band split. but i feel like selig, chimp, or exode might be able to route a way to do this native as well

What do you mean route a way to do this native?

MClass Stereo Imager is a 2 band splitter. What exactly are you looking for?

[dan_g]

thanks a lot bro! really well done and easy to follow along. the great option is the band split. but i feel like selig, chimp, or exode might be able to route a way to do this native as well

by the way what is that polymodular thing all over your racks? i subed to your channel , would love to see anymore tutorials if you have other cool things to share

well thanks alot. i actually thought a few times about some tutorial stuff to share my knowledge a bit. maybe i will come up with a few ideas to really make this happen. but with more time put into intro/cut and planing things.

the polymodular is just a bigger version of the normal spider audio merger/splitter. this way i can rout my send 1 sidechain anywere i need it.

als RandomSkratch mentioned. you could totally do a band split and apply compression to only the lowend with reason stock devices.

[tomusurp]

yes that is what i meant, i recall seeing the stereo imager method now, I believe it was on Stock Music Musician youtube channel but i have to find to see how he routed it

[tomusurp]

ahh here it is at the 18 minute mark

he's doing it with the regular mclass sidechain method on a bus (parallel from kick to input of stereo imager and separate outs from imager to mclass compressor sidechain input).

that's totally fine I'm just wondering how to do this with sweeper now either on the insert of a bus like exode does or via sends like chimp's spider or sweeper method

[RandomSkratch]

I'm just wondering how to do this with sweeper now either on the insert of a bus like exode does or via sends like chimp's spider or sweeper method

Sweeper's envelope is triggered by CV (control voltage - ie a gate), not audio for those cases. So, using the stereo imager to separate out frequencies isn't going to help here.

The envelope CAN be triggered via audio passing through sweeper using the AUDIO TRIG circuit on the bottom right but for the ducking effect that was described earlier, you're only using Sweeper for its CV triggerable envelope.

[tomusurp]

thanks again, i had to watch the video again as I'm back in the studio setting up a new template for all sidechain methods

i also noticed at the end of the video you explained the polymodular thing. i guess it acts in the same way as chimp's method with the spider send. my question is there any difference with the polymodular and why is it routed like that with single wires and with bottom right output going into top left splitter? like what is the concept behind that? isn't that a mono signal and how would the right output work if it's not connected to the fx send 1 right channel?

also another question, so my issue now is that i tend to use nnxt and mimic a lot for pitched kicks and snares. they don't have gate outs, so now how would i get these devices to work with your method of shaperbox in a combi or even for chimp's and exode's sweeper trig envelope method?

thanks a lot bro! really well done and easy to follow along. the great option is the band split. but i feel like selig, chimp, or exode might be able to route a way to do this native as well

by the way what is that polymodular thing all over your racks? i subed to your channel , would love to see anymore tutorials if you have other cool things to share

well thanks alot. i actually thought a few times about some tutorial stuff to share my knowledge a bit. maybe i will come up with a few ideas to really make this happen. but with more time put into intro/cut and planing things.

the polymodular is just a bigger version of the normal spider audio merger/splitter. this way i can rout my send 1 sidechain anywere i need it.

als RandomSkratch mentioned. you could totally do a band split and apply compression to only the lowend with reason stock devices.

[tomusurp]

also another question for Dan G, how do you setup those 2 controls on the combinator, like which sources and targets to select?

[fullforce]

Not a dumb question at all. It’s not at all obvious and that snarky comment by fullforce was 100% unnecessary troll crap.

Have fun.

Yeah, there's literally nothing about it in the manual either.

[selig]

If anyone is still interested in side chain in Reason, will be covering as many aspects of it as possible in tomorrow's live stream:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7529510

[aeox]

My preferred approach is to use an output bus for the tracks I want sidechained. I create a Sweeper effect insert in that bus and configure it the way I want. I use the Gate output of the kick of either Redrum or Kong to trigger the Sweeper envelope. Depending on the source material I can choose to use a Redrum as a ghost kick to trigger the sidechain. The advantage of using Sweeper is that you can tweak the sidechain curve, or shape, to your liking.


sidechain_1_front.png sidechain_2_back.png

This is exactly how I do it and works great!

[selig]

Found this video on youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1CKvZj ... LL&index=2

could you quickly look it up and tell me if this is it? I did not image it was this simple right now , shame on me.

Yes, that Kickback Couture video is totally correct. You can also route both your bass tracks into a bus channel and compress that channel that the same way.

Not a dumb question at all. It’s not at all obvious and that snarky comment by fullforce was 100% unnecessary troll crap.

Have fun.

That said, I did notice that the auto makeup gain of the channel compressor does not allow you to gain additional headroom in a mix by side chaining. Even when using the MClass compressor as a side chain device you can keep the levels to the same as kick or bass playing on their own. But no setting on the channel compressor allows this - you always get the same peak gain as with no side chain and I even saw the peak level increase by a dB in some cases. I covered this in the October Selig LiveStream if anyone is interested.
Bottom line, don't use the channel compressor for ducking if the goal is to make more space (headroom) in the mix bus.