Reason Studios 13 or 14 (Future Talk)

[EnochLight]

I also just bought FL Studio because I'm curious to learn other DAWS.

I chose Ableton Live instead. I realize it doesn't have lifetime free upgrades (which is not unique to FL Studio, BTW), but it does tend to be one of the most - if not THE MOST - popular DAW on the market. And Push 3 does look very tempting. But I digress...

[Ichooselife]

I also just bought FL Studio because I'm curious to learn other DAWS.

I chose Ableton Live instead. I realize it doesn't have lifetime free upgrades (which is not unique to FL Studio, BTW), but it does tend to be one of the most - if not THE MOST - popular DAW on the market. And Push 3 does look very tempting. But I digress...

isnt it weird how ableton has barely more options than reason

( and only as good soundbank only if you buy the expensive suite version )

isnt it weird how people say reason is too simple

yet the most popular daw is even simpler ( haha pun )

there nothing like cubase and logic and studio one are they ?

and i think that’s why i like them
if you want a score editor
get a seperate one let a daw be easy and simple

[Ichooselife]

it is annoying to think
if you can own something anymore

i mean if i buy a hardware unit it’s mine until it breaks unless it’s discontinued

and it’s kinda the same in the software world
i mean you don’t have to move with the times
you can stay on an old versio. quite happily for an extra
6 years maybe doesnt timecop of the synthwave world use a much older fruity loops version because he is used to that ?

usually i can do this that is
until reason 12…


these companies are making much less money now , because people don’t wanna pay for things that are not physical ie music software ( not Everyone ) but the majority
so there getting more creative in the ways to grab your money

sure it’s a business i get it

but if we don’t wanna move with the times yet let us



i’m happy on reason 11

oh and i’ll never be a subscriber only

i would rather have a perpetual licence

or second to that i would rather have a cracked version

( oh and some of us don’t want our computers online it’s distracting and uses up cpu


so reason 13 give us some
new fx and update the bloody daw

and give offline useage to all versions
so we can upgrade when we like

ugly ways of doing things will make people run


oh and this little loyal community will not hold you up forever

be nice please

Timecop of software, I love that phrase lol

In Reason's defense, at least they still have both options of purchase, I don't think there's anything wrong with offering subscription because it could be useful for some and also potentially more money for Reason. With that said, no matter what age we are in, subscription only is still stupid, especially when you still make money from upgrades and new users.

Personally I have no quarrels with Reason, it's a great DAW. Every DAW will have its pros and cons anyway and they are not a big deal. As I like to say, it's a great time to be alive for producers now. Unbelievable DAWS now and free unlimited education on YouTube for all things music production and engineering

I also just bought FL Studio because I'm curious to learn other DAWS. Let me tell you it's unbelievable in it's own right. And here's a huge benefit which it sounds you might like, FREE LIFETIME UPDATES. That's a very consumer-friendly business model and their community on the official forum, reddit and discord are very active and awesome. People very willing to help out.

timecop of software phrase ?


i’m a bit shit at typing english is my first launguge

but i was shit at school and a bit dislexic lol

[tomusurp]

I also just bought FL Studio because I'm curious to learn other DAWS.

I chose Ableton Live instead. I realize it doesn't have lifetime free upgrades (which is not unique to FL Studio, BTW), but it does tend to be one of the most - if not THE MOST - popular DAW on the market. And Push 3 does look very tempting. But I digress...

Good for you learning more tools. I think FL Studio and Ableton are very similar in popularity based on their social media numbers. I may be interested in learning Ableton down the road, but at this point chose FL because I'm having a great time learning it, the community is very helpful and active, lifetime updates. It's a cool interface and after a few days it's quite easy to navigate and use. It's a matter of watching more technical tutorials to learn how to route things etc. Pretty straightforward. I would think Ableton is fairly easy to learn as well and watching many audio engineering tutorials, I always liked the on-hand effects builder section on the bottom for the stock plugins. Reduces clicks and great for faster mixing, same as Reason's SSL mixer and spectrum analyzer. For FL, piano roll and channel rack is awesome, so many options, very fast gui, great stock plugins too. As I like to say, it's a great time to be alive for producers

[Ichooselife]

reason 13
should have a pop out midi editor

when you name tracks in the mixer they should rename in the timeline too

better slick gui

folder tracks

eq more bands and not fixed

be able to maximise eq full size

and compare all the tracks eq frequency on one

and some new better fx reverb - etc

and replace orkestor partner up with spitfire or sonivox like ableton have or record something new

make reason pianos and drums and bass part of the perpetual licence

they should be stock instruments

this stuff would make me uograde

[rcbuse]

That said, I have to wonder if the word “permanent” is working all that well in the software context. By that definition i own a ton of software permanently that i can never actually use again (everything I’ve “purchased” permanently since 1986 up to recently), so that meaning is somewhat lost to me.

Ah.... truth to that. Got a CD of Watcom C++ and photoshop 5 around here somewhere...

[SebAudio]

I enjoy using software but I know from start that I own only the « right » to use it as long as the « true » owner wants it. And also remember that software is provided « As is » , so…
If I wanted to « own » a thing, I’d go HW (and choose it carefully to be able to use it « forever »).
However I prefer the concession model rather than the subscription one.

[crimsonwarlock]

If I wanted to « own » a thing, I’d go HW (and choose it carefully to be able to use it « forever »).

There are several hardware repair companies around the world, making good money, because people think hardware will last longer than software

[EnochLight]

isnt it weird how ableton has barely more options than reason

"BARELY"? Lmao...

https://www.ableton.com/en/push/

If I wanted to « own » a thing, I’d go HW (and choose it carefully to be able to use it « forever »).

There are several hardware repair companies around the world, making good money, because people think hardware will last longer than software

Indeed (as I longingly gaze at my collection of reel-to-reel decks that need servicing)...

[crimsonwarlock]

Indeed (as I longingly gaze at my collection of reel-to-reel decks that need servicing)...

I'm with you on that one. My Tascam 488 is making a lot of noise and it ain't music

[reasonosaer]

the lack of full vst support is going to cap the companies growth in almost the same way the lack of any vst support at all did for years before the old management was forced to back down from that position or fail, and they still lost the company as a result of their stubborn arrogance.

the difference is that it will be much harder for the current management that has even less understanding of the industry to understand how much refusing to support midi i/o standards for vsts is ultimately costing them, because its a less direct relationship that isn't captured at all in the idiotic bi dataviz bs those types are all obsessed with right now.

so yeah, they either fully support VST standards or the company fails even faster than its currently on track to, and i don't think they've figured that out yet.

beyond that a modern digital sequencer with maybe half of the functionality that FL Studio, Cubase, Ableton, Logic, Reaper, Pro Tools, and Studio One user ALL had within two years of those DAW release, nevermind two decades lmao....

[EnochLight]

before the old management was forced to back down from that position or fail, and they still lost the company as a result of their stubborn arrogance.

Uh, no. You and I have a very different recollection of actual events.

[simonphinix1986]

I also just bought FL Studio because I'm curious to learn other DAWS.

I chose Ableton Live instead. I realize it doesn't have lifetime free upgrades (which is not unique to FL Studio, BTW), but it does tend to be one of the most - if not THE MOST - popular DAW on the market. And Push 3 does look very tempting. But I digress...

FL Studio 21 is a good choice. I started with Reason Studios 6 until Reason Studios 11. But then switched to FL Studio. Hoping for upgrade in the future for fl studio.

[selig]

when you name tracks in the mixer they should rename in the timeline too

The “problem” with this suggestion is that there are no “tracks” in the mixer. There are “channels” in the mixer, which won’t show up in the sequencer unless you automate something on them, which then creates a track (for the Mix Channel, nothing else).

The timeline/sequencer has “devices” which each get exactly one track (multiple note lanes are possible within that track). If you rename a device in the Sequencer or Rack View, the Mixer Channel will follow. But sometimes you may want to rename JUST the mixer channel, like when using more than one output from ReDrum etc. so you can give each channel a meaningful name. Since Mix Channels appear in the Rack and Mixer view, you can change either one and the other will follow. If you change the Mix Channel name and want to go back to it being linked to the device name, just delete the text and it will revert to “following” the device name.

TL/DR: you have “devices” (with names), and you have Mix Channels which start with the same name as the device but can be renamed. Devices appear in two places and the names “follow” each other. Mix Channels appear in two places and the names follow each other. Hope I’m being clear here!

[mcatalao]

Am i a bit of an Old fart by saying i don't want a big change in reason, either on the sequencer or the mixer? I'm at a point in my life where if something works for me, i don't try to fix it so everything that might change too much the mixer or the sequencer is a no go!

However I'd like to see some improvements to the sequencer and mixer, like:

Sequencer:
- auto punch in/out
- a complete track freeze function
- Track Folders
- Restrospective midi (and maybe audio) recording

Mixer:
- a pre/post select for paralels
- Mixer view versions and full channel patches (by mixer versions i mean to save a complete version of the mixer status)
- Remote assignable channel focus ( to allow a way to select/focus a mixer channel from the remote device)
- Channel Folders (if possible following track folders)

Project level
- A non consolidated project version (ideally the capacity to consolidate for sharing or define the project type)
- Change list with undo/Redo
- Snap in versioning

[iTrensharo]

Personally, I think v13 is going to be a fairly substantial sequencer update. How much it's going to inch it towards the competition is the only thing that up in the air to me. I cannot imagine them not going in that direction for the next (upcoming) release.

While the Rack is nice for users who wanted to be able to better utilize Reason devices in a better core DAW, I don't think it was all that beneficial to the product as a whole - especially considering the opportunity cost of developing it. The core Reason product doesn't look better for people who just want to buy a DAW to use, relative to the competition, as a result of it existing.

It will be interesting to see if they are able to grow their user base noticeably with the next release. I don't think v12 accomplished that. I see contraction - anecdotally speaking, of course.

I chose Ableton Live instead. I realize it doesn't have lifetime free upgrades (which is not unique to FL Studio, BTW), but it does tend to be one of the most - if not THE MOST - popular DAW on the market. And Push 3 does look very tempting. But I digress...

isnt it weird how ableton has barely more options than reason

( and only as good soundbank only if you buy the expensive suite version )

isnt it weird how people say reason is too simple

yet the most popular daw is even simpler ( haha pun )

there nothing like cubase and logic and studio one are they ?

and i think that’s why i like them
if you want a score editor
get a seperate one let a daw be easy and simple

Ableton Live Suite is routinely down to < $350 as an upgrade from Lite, and Ableton tends to have more sales than Reason Studios.

Additionally, with Live 12 they moved 4 of their synths, a few FX and a bunch of their Stock Packs down to Standard from Suite... So, Live Standard is actually a fairly well-stocked SKU now.

Not sure anyone who has used both of these DAWs would say that Ableton Live is "as simple as" Reason 12. It's not. It's deeper, and the workflow is better - and it scales far better than Reason does with Project sizes. The more tracks and virtual instruments you have in Reason, the more of a burden the Rack becomes. The mixing workflow in Live is better than Reason, though one can appreciate its skeuomorphism there.

Functionally, Cubase Pro goes far beyond both Live and Logic in terms of what it offers. It has crossgrade pricing and during sales can be gotten for just over $200 on crossgrade. After initial purchase, it's fairly cheap to maintain: $99 per 18 months upgrade costs.

Logic Pro is a bad comparison for value because it's heavily subsidized by hardware sales and used as a carrot to sell Macs. Before, it was a $600+ product. But, they also haven't charged for an upgrade in over a decade, so there is that.

-----

The big issue with Reason 12 perpetual is that it delivers a lot of redundant devices as stock instruments. Pianos, Redundant synths and mediocre samples/loops/acoustic instrument patches from the early 2000s are redundant out of the box when you add it to something like Live [Suite], Logic Pro and even Cubase Pro (which ships with VA, Subtractive, Wavetable and Spectral/Granular Synths + good samplers... on top of better sample/loop content and acoustic instrument libraries/patches).

This creates a weird scenario where people who move from a workflow centered around Reason as a complete production solution (Reason as a DAW) to using the Reason Rack Plug-in (or already use a different DAW and don't yet own it) have decreased incentive to buy, upgrade or even use it once they make that transition (or start elsewhere). The rack doesn't offer much benefit - particularly at its price point - and it's often a workflow benefit to keep things out of the rack and directly on the channel strip in the base DAW, anyways.

I think if they had twice as many instruments and players, they might have a things that were a bit more out of the box and worth investing in, but in that case it would have been advantageous to maintain the Reason Intro SKU to allow people to buy a lighter base product and then invest in the specific Rack Extensions they want - instead of having to invest heavily up front for tons of redundancies and then pay the price to add the stuff they want on top of it. They'd also have more room to bundle higher value products into the base SKU (things that are less redundant in so many DAW packages) to increase the practical value of the perpetual product.

I mean, even for Synths like Algoritm, Parsec and Friktion there is a high level of redundancy in some DAW packages.

The subscription is always going to be low value. I'd rather subscribe to UVI Sonic Pass for $5 Extra and get access to all of their Effects and Sample Libraries (already own Falcon) - but I still wouldn't go there because...

Subscriptions for Music production software are a no go for me, because there is a higher chance that I'll want to open an older project, remix it, edit it, etc. in the future. Locking in my body of work to a subscription product is a complete non-starter. I could never do that.

I'd be more willing to subscribe to something like Premiere Pro or After Effects if I were a YouTuber, though, since I could drop it and move to something like FCP/Motion or Resolve/Fusion Studio without any drawbacks in the future - aside from the cost of switching (learning curve, productivity dip due to the transition).

[avasopht]

It's hard to gauge how Reason 13 or 14 will be, but I bet they've spent the last 2 years doing a lot of R&D to enhance the workflow.

They'll also be appeasing the suits upstairs with their (I'm presuming) demands to bring more "value" to the subscription model at the expense of perpetual licenses.

The less you see and hear, the more likely they're devoting their time to R&D.



If they're wise they'll consider controller collaborations with Akai, Nektar or Novation.



I hope they'll give some TLC to the stuff with potential, like Remote and Rack Extensions. Improving tooling, etc.

If they're really smart they'll acquire some kick-ass instrument samples to revamp their bread and butter sounds.

Maybe also enhance some of the older devices with unison and an "analogue" knob.

[SebAudio]

If they're wise they'll consider controller collaborations with Akai, Nektar or Novation.

Given what they have done with the great Remote tech when Reason was still a standalone product, I highly doubt they’d go that route since RRP remonte capabilities are under the host DAW

[jaeproduced]

I am anticipating an announcement/release either April/May about Reason 13 if not it will be Sept/Oct but something BIG has to drop this year it's been 3years since Reason 12 plus it's their 30th anniversary...Any thought?

[Theo.M]

I am incredibly impressed how well Reason is performing across high core counts and with vst plugins. Incredibly impressed. It is bang in line with Cubendo 13.
That was always one of my issues, so now that that's fixed, my needs are a bit simple. All I really want is ARA2 compatibility for Melodyne and ReVoice, and delay compensation to also be compensated visually on the timeline when the play head passes the audio. That's it for me. Maybe Reason 13 or Reason 14 if I am lucky.
I am having some visual quirks with R12, like when I delete a plugin from the rack sometimes the entire gui minimises to windows and I have to reopen it, and maybe an easier way to copy and auto connect large amounts of inserts at once (and bypass and enable them for A/B testing, very useful to compare tape plugins). I really think Reason as it stands is one of the finest DAWs out there in its current incarnation, and since I started using it I think 3 weeks back now, I haven't had a single crash which is startling. Not one. I haven't installed it on Mac yet though but I don't see why it would be any different.

[chimp_spanner]

I am incredibly impressed how well Reason is performing across high core counts and with vst plugins. Incredibly impressed. It is bang in line with Cubendo 13.
That was always one of my issues, so now that that's fixed, my needs are a bit simple. All I really want is ARA2 compatibility for Melodyne and ReVoice, and delay compensation to also be compensated visually on the timeline when the play head passes the audio. That's it for me. Maybe Reason 13 or Reason 14 if I am lucky.
I am having some visual quirks with R12, like when I delete a plugin from the rack sometimes the entire gui minimises to windows and I have to reopen it, and maybe an easier way to copy and auto connect large amounts of inserts at once (and bypass and enable them for A/B testing, very useful to compare tape plugins). I really think Reason as it stands is one of the finest DAWs out there in its current incarnation, and since I started using it I think 3 weeks back now, I haven't had a single crash which is startling. Not one. I haven't installed it on Mac yet though but I don't see why it would be any different.

What are your specs just out of interest? I have an i7 11700 w 64GB DDR4 and an RTX3070. On Windows 10 I could stream to Twitch, have browsers open and Reason at 64 samples no problem. Now, I get clicks and pops with just Reason open and like 2-3 tracks of audio. Really bumming me out. All my other DAWs run fine. Don't know if to roll back to 10 (meaning a complete OS re-install) or just go for a new MBP and hope throwing brute CPU power at the problem will help.

[Theo.M]

I am incredibly impressed how well Reason is performing across high core counts and with vst plugins. Incredibly impressed. It is bang in line with Cubendo 13.
That was always one of my issues, so now that that's fixed, my needs are a bit simple. All I really want is ARA2 compatibility for Melodyne and ReVoice, and delay compensation to also be compensated visually on the timeline when the play head passes the audio. That's it for me. Maybe Reason 13 or Reason 14 if I am lucky.
I am having some visual quirks with R12, like when I delete a plugin from the rack sometimes the entire gui minimises to windows and I have to reopen it, and maybe an easier way to copy and auto connect large amounts of inserts at once (and bypass and enable them for A/B testing, very useful to compare tape plugins). I really think Reason as it stands is one of the finest DAWs out there in its current incarnation, and since I started using it I think 3 weeks back now, I haven't had a single crash which is startling. Not one. I haven't installed it on Mac yet though but I don't see why it would be any different.

What are your specs just out of interest? I have an i7 11700 w 64GB DDR4 and an RTX3070. On Windows 10 I could stream to Twitch, have browsers open and Reason at 64 samples no problem. Now, I get clicks and pops with just Reason open and like 2-3 tracks of audio. Really bumming me out. All my other DAWs run fine. Don't know if to roll back to 10 (meaning a complete OS re-install) or just go for a new MBP and hope throwing brute CPU power at the problem will help.

The pc laptop is pretty powerful, 13980hx, 64gb ram, 4TB Samsung SSD, Win 11 Pro. An 11700 should be fine though. My initial laptop that I first bought when I fell ill and sold my macs and gear and bought a PC laptop to game with in bed, is still here, an 8 core like yours but previous CPU generation, a laptop, and I will test with Reason tomorrow when I get a chance, presuming they let me install it on a third computer? I don't want that to have any chance of not allowing me to unlock it on my mac though, as right now it's only on the PC but the plan is the Mac, so if you know the policies please let me know, as the Mac is what I am actually going to be using for music, period.

May I ask what interface you are using?
Do you have DPC latency issues? first port of call. Pops and clicks usually have something to do with SR issues, DPC latency or interface drivers.

Are you also on Win 11? Try latencymon first, let me know your interface and any other info you have and I will try help you out.

GPU?

Cheers

Edit, I just saw you have a 3070, do check DPC latency. I use iGPU mode when I go into DAW as Nvidias can cause issues. Does your processor have an iGPU or is it a K one without it?

[chimp_spanner]

I chose Ableton Live instead. I realize it doesn't have lifetime free upgrades (which is not unique to FL Studio, BTW), but it does tend to be one of the most - if not THE MOST - popular DAW on the market. And Push 3 does look very tempting. But I digress...

isnt it weird how ableton has barely more options than reason

( and only as good soundbank only if you buy the expensive suite version )

isnt it weird how people say reason is too simple

yet the most popular daw is even simpler ( haha pun )

there nothing like cubase and logic and studio one are they ?

and i think that’s why i like them
if you want a score editor
get a seperate one let a daw be easy and simple

In some ways I agree. I've always maintained that there isn't a world of difference between Reason and Live sequencer wise, and arguably Reason has some advantages (it's MIDI functions are easier to use, it has melodyne/vari-audio style editing, I prefer clip handling to Live). On the flip side, Live has a handful of things that I desperately wish Reason had;

- Folder tracks
- The ability to hear notes in the key editor when walking through or nudging with arrows
- Integrated step input
- Note folding
- Note chase (play long/sustained notes from anywhere and still hear them)
- Note probability
- Audio pitch envelopes
- Re-pitch (tape) stretch algorithm
- Tempo definition

These are the things that are tempting me over to Live as my main DAW. Or possibly Cubase 13. But then like I say there are things about Reason that I would definitely miss. I love its automation (and static parameter values). I like the Player integration. I'm definitely gonna have to give some things up in order to gain other things that are important to me.

[chimp_spanner]

What are your specs just out of interest? I have an i7 11700 w 64GB DDR4 and an RTX3070. On Windows 10 I could stream to Twitch, have browsers open and Reason at 64 samples no problem. Now, I get clicks and pops with just Reason open and like 2-3 tracks of audio. Really bumming me out. All my other DAWs run fine. Don't know if to roll back to 10 (meaning a complete OS re-install) or just go for a new MBP and hope throwing brute CPU power at the problem will help.

The pc laptop is pretty powerful, 13980hx, 64gb ram, 4TB Samsung SSD, Win 11 Pro. An 11700 should be fine though. My initial laptop that I first bought when I fell ill and sold my macs and gear and bought a PC laptop to game with in bed, is still here, an 8 core like yours but previous CPU generation, a laptop, and I will test with Reason tomorrow when I get a chance, presuming they let me install it on a third computer? I don't want that to have any chance of not allowing me to unlock it on my mac though, as right now it's only on the PC but the plan is the Mac, so if you know the policies please let me know, as the Mac is what I am actually going to be using for music, period.

May I ask what interface you are using?
Do you have DPC latency issues? first port of call. Pops and clicks usually have something to do with SR issues, DPC latency or interface drivers.

Are you also on Win 11? Try latencymon first, let me know your interface and any other info you have and I will try help you out.

GPU?

Cheers

Edit, I just saw you have a 3070, do check DPC latency. I use iGPU mode when I go into DAW as Nvidias can cause issues. Does your processor have an iGPU or is it a K one without it?

That sounds like a great laptop! I have Reason on 3 computers here, and probably a fourth if/when I get a new laptop. I think the policy is just one active/in use at a time. Although in reality I've often launched Reason on my desktop while still open on my work laptop. It happens

AFAIK it's just a regular 11700. Not a K. I'll install latencymon after work - any pointers on what I should be looking for when I run it?

Like I say getting a new system might just cure it but the MBP I'm looking at is like...a big wedge of money. If I can maybe hold off having to do that for a while, I will haha.

Oh the interface is a Focusrite 18i20 3rd Gen. I might see if I can borrow a different interface to eliminate that as a cause too. Atm it's kinda integral to my setup cos I use it with an octopre to record a bunch of hardware BUT...I am strongly considering downsizing because, let's be honest, the Reason Rack basically craps on any amount of hardware I can buy.

[Theo.M]

Ok I think we should take this to hardware.

Reason runs at a live buffer at all times, I would be using the Focusrite USB at no lower than 128 personally for a good balance.

latencymon is easy, it will tell you if it fails, and if it does, then you can take a screenshot for me., I think move it to hardware so we aren't scolded for going too OT or PM is ok too! Cheers

PS if it fails first thing I'd do is run on the UHD gpu in the 11700 and disable the nvidia. Also go into your bios, once you have told me the motherboard I can see if there's any advanced extra tweaks for it, but disable C states and intel speedstep, so your cpu is always at a constant high frequency. These steps usually totally solve DPC latency and did on my laptop and completely transformed it. Don't have to worry about any of that on Mac thankfully. I bought this laptop to game, nothing more, then it has sort of become a testing bed now that I am making music again after 5 long years without.

PPS if you are using your Focusrite for windows audio also like youtube etc, make sure the sample rate set in Windows audio preferences matches the sample rate in your DAW or it will pop and click.