Reason Financials 2021

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helmutson
Posts: 193
Joined: 30 Mar 2015

Post 10 Aug 2022

Faastwalker wrote:
10 Aug 2022
Jac459 wrote:
09 Aug 2022
Interrestingly enough RS just pushed a new add on IG for Reaper users to get the RRP.
Just saw that. It definitely feels like it's ALL about Reason as a plug-in these days :cry:
... then they should deliver the M1 native RRP finally. I hate it running Live under Rosetta and killing a good amount of performance. :thumbs_down:

Jac459
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Location: Singapore

Post 10 Aug 2022

helmutson wrote:
10 Aug 2022
Faastwalker wrote:
10 Aug 2022

Just saw that. It definitely feels like it's ALL about Reason as a plug-in these days :cry:
... then they should deliver the M1 native RRP finally. I hate it running Live under Rosetta and killing a good amount of performance. :thumbs_down:
You mean Ableton is running in M1 but if you want to open RRP you need Ableton to be in Rosetta ?

kurtg
Posts: 27
Joined: 10 Apr 2018

Post 10 Aug 2022

helmutson wrote:
10 Aug 2022
quote]

... then they should deliver the M1 native RRP finally. I hate it running Live under Rosetta and killing a good amount of performance. :thumbs_down:
+1

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mcatalao
Posts: 1668
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Post 10 Aug 2022

kitekrazy wrote:
09 Aug 2022
]

The beauty of Reaper is that it is a just a DAW. That attracts many. It only takes up 14mb of space. Reason bloats your OS drive because they haven't figured out how to make it easier for the user to put their other content on a different drive.

Such beauty has 0 content, no instrumenta, odd effects and 0 appeal. And this is only valid if you're running your daw from a 128 gb or less surface. And on a side note, it's quite easy to redirect refills and Re folders to a second hard drive, at least on windows.

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guitfnky
Posts: 4240
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Post 10 Aug 2022

mcatalao wrote:
10 Aug 2022
kitekrazy wrote:
09 Aug 2022
]

The beauty of Reaper is that it is a just a DAW. That attracts many. It only takes up 14mb of space. Reason bloats your OS drive because they haven't figured out how to make it easier for the user to put their other content on a different drive.

Such beauty has 0 content, no instrumenta, odd effects and 0 appeal. And this is only valid if you're running your daw from a 128 gb or less surface. And on a side note, it's quite easy to redirect refills and Re folders to a second hard drive, at least on windows.
this is absurd. we’re musicians. it’s literally our job to create the content. I feel sorry for anyone who thinks they need a huge suite of digital instruments before we can work.
I write good music for good people

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jlgrimes
Posts: 628
Joined: 06 Jun 2017

Post 10 Aug 2022

StephenHutchinson wrote:
10 Aug 2022
Faastwalker wrote:
10 Aug 2022

Just saw that. It definitely feels like it's ALL about Reason as a plug-in these days :cry:
I have begun to wonder if at some point, RS will just become a VST Plugin company. It would make wayyyyy more sense to do that, than to drag the whole Reason DAW along with it. If you look at where Native Instruments is going in terms of their Komplete Now subscription model, at $10/month, (https://youtu.be/UDrVCwn6FDc), it wouldn't be a far cry for Reason Studios to at some point phase out the DAW completely, and entirely concentrate on the Reason Rack Plugin.

If they brought the pricing down to a $99 USD / year subscription, they could really have something that would appeal to a whole lot more people who already have a modern DAW. RS, of course, have already made forays into getting RRP into other DAWs and with a little bit of jerry-rigging.... getting midi out etc., it would be a whole new ball game.

For me, RRP works amazingly well in Bitwig Studio. I absolutely LOVE that I can add any Bitwig or VST instrument, say a bass for example... load up RRP, add the Bassline Generator in the rack and slide the RRP to the left of my bass instrument and it just works. There is no fiddling with crazy 2 track midi ins and outs and patching nonsense as in say, Ableton.... it is just perfectly simple.

Slap in any VST/VST3 instrument and add another instance of the RRP with an RE effect, slide to the right of the VST instrument and boom... you're done. It just works so cleanly, and with Bitwig's modern DAW it's even better. You get the best of both worlds without having to use Reason's super outdated sequencer.

Here's just a quick example video of Bitwig + RRP you can view and (6 mins 53 seconds):

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/anp955vui1vu ... ILbia?dl=0
They probably should make a free version as well.

Bundle a few devices. There are alot of competition now with Free VSTs.

Odin, A Thor emulation
OBXD An excellent Subtractive synth
Vital A free VST that is in direct competition with Serum.

From that point users would decide what devices they need and buy them directly. And with the option to demo REs, or the full version of Reason.

Thats an easier way to get users to at least try the program and devices before buying.

To me that makes more sense than trying to convince someone to try a subscription plan that will turn off many users.

Its harder for people to turn down a free VST especially if it adds value.

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chimp_spanner
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Post 10 Aug 2022

guitfnky wrote:
10 Aug 2022
mcatalao wrote:
10 Aug 2022


Such beauty has 0 content, no instrumenta, odd effects and 0 appeal. And this is only valid if you're running your daw from a 128 gb or less surface. And on a side note, it's quite easy to redirect refills and Re folders to a second hard drive, at least on windows.
this is absurd. we’re musicians. it’s literally our job to create the content. I feel sorry for anyone who thinks they need a huge suite of digital instruments before we can work.
Eeeeeeehhhhh agree and disagree haha. I mean a big part of why I love Reason is that I can make stuff myself if I want to, or have the time. Trouble is...most of the time, I don't have the time. So Reason definitely has the edge over something like Reaper that comes with nothing in as much as that I have a pretty solid core of sounds to at least get me started before I start digging through Kontakt libraries or sound designing. It's even got the edge on other DAWs I use that *do* have sounds that just aren't very good, like Cubase. I have no idea who their soundbank is aimed at but I swear I've never found a useful preset in there in my life.

Live has the edge for me though. I love its drumkits, and I love that every sound has an audio preview. It's a real time saver.

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guitfnky
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Post 10 Aug 2022

chimp_spanner wrote:
10 Aug 2022
guitfnky wrote:
10 Aug 2022


this is absurd. we’re musicians. it’s literally our job to create the content. I feel sorry for anyone who thinks they need a huge suite of digital instruments before we can work.
Eeeeeeehhhhh agree and disagree haha. I mean a big part of why I love Reason is that I can make stuff myself if I want to, or have the time. Trouble is...most of the time, I don't have the time. So Reason definitely has the edge over something like Reaper that comes with nothing in as much as that I have a pretty solid core of sounds to at least get me started before I start digging through Kontakt libraries or sound designing. It's even got the edge on other DAWs I use that *do* have sounds that just aren't very good, like Cubase. I have no idea who their soundbank is aimed at but I swear I've never found a useful preset in there in my life.

Live has the edge for me though. I love its drumkits, and I love that every sound has an audio preview. It's a real time saver.
that’s fair, and I definitely agree that stuff is useful—I guess I just get a bit prickly at the insinuation that XYZ tool is not useful or somehow broadly subpar simply because it’s not appealing to one particular person.

I get a ton of use out of first and third party instruments in Live and Reason, and of course doubly so in Reaper (for third party). but Reaper is a f%*#ng beast of a DAW, capable of some incredibly impressive stuff, despite having almost no included instruments (I want to say there’s a very basic synth included?). at the end of the day, any tool is what you make of it. it’s okay to not like a particular tool, but makes no sense to act like nobody else should either.
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kitekrazy
Posts: 983
Joined: 19 Jan 2015

Post 10 Aug 2022

mcatalao wrote:
10 Aug 2022
kitekrazy wrote:
09 Aug 2022
]

The beauty of Reaper is that it is a just a DAW. That attracts many. It only takes up 14mb of space. Reason bloats your OS drive because they haven't figured out how to make it easier for the user to put their other content on a different drive.

Such beauty has 0 content, no instrumenta, odd effects and 0 appeal. And this is only valid if you're running your daw from a 128 gb or less surface. And on a side note, it's quite easy to redirect refills and Re folders to a second hard drive, at least on windows.
LOL that is absurd. Your first sentence describes the mature DAW user.


AND NO it is not easy to move RE content on Windows. Like most DAWs not named Reason developers don't bloat your drive and give you a way to move content in the settings.

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demt
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Post 10 Aug 2022

I haven't read all of this thread but what about a cut down specially for beginners version standing alongside the full version,she's real fat!
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kitekrazy
Posts: 983
Joined: 19 Jan 2015

Post 10 Aug 2022

chimp_spanner wrote:
10 Aug 2022
guitfnky wrote:
10 Aug 2022


this is absurd. we’re musicians. it’s literally our job to create the content. I feel sorry for anyone who thinks they need a huge suite of digital instruments before we can work.
Eeeeeeehhhhh agree and disagree haha. I mean a big part of why I love Reason is that I can make stuff myself if I want to, or have the time. Trouble is...most of the time, I don't have the time. So Reason definitely has the edge over something like Reaper that comes with nothing in as much as that I have a pretty solid core of sounds to at least get me started before I start digging through Kontakt libraries or sound designing. It's even got the edge on other DAWs I use that *do* have sounds that just aren't very good, like Cubase. I have no idea who their soundbank is aimed at but I swear I've never found a useful preset in there in my life.

Live has the edge for me though. I love its drumkits, and I love that every sound has an audio preview. It's a real time saver.
Outside of their drum app it's beyond Sonar lame. Halion is no Kontakt unless you are into romplers. I have yet to gel to Cubase because I don't like the GUI. Click twice to open and click twice to close.

Reaper is a totally different DAW from the likes of Reason.

Live is great but pricey for one who wants the suite first time.

MuttReason
Posts: 164
Joined: 28 Jan 2021

Post 10 Aug 2022

chimp_spanner wrote:
10 Aug 2022
Eprom wrote:
10 Aug 2022
Everyone that is using external hardware to produce music runs into Reason's limitations fast!

When Reason came out it was the answer to all my problems with a studio full of 19" racks and tons of MIDI cables. I sold most of my synths/effect units and went full on software. And as long as you keep it all in the software domain it works fine, but.. over the last few years I bought a lot of hardware synths again. And i'm not the only one. Classic synths are all the rage and so is Eurorack equipment. But Reason isn't suitable as the main hub for a complete studio. The sole lack of being able to send Midi sync over different interface outputs is a reason alone to go for another DAW.

So again, RS please update your sequencer! We have devices enough now.
^ Yup. It's the main thing that keeps me in Live, which is sooooo dumb because the workflow in Reason would be *perfect* if I could just attach Players to my hardware synths and have all my drum and groovebox units playing perfectly in time. The ultimate playground. I thought I found a workaround using virtual MIDI and loopback but it removes the ability to send MIDI notes to devices if the port is already being used to send clock. Multiple sync destinations is very high on the must-have list for me.
+1 from me. My hardware setup (not huge, just a ASM Hydrasynth, Roland TR8S, Modal Cobalt8) plays very nicely with Ableton Live but isn't much fun with Reason. Biggest obstacle is trying to adjust for MIDI latency per device. So easy to do that with Live but not possible with Reason (you can adjust MIDI Clock output by ms but that affects ALL connected hardware, you can't tweak ms MIDI delay for each device). And of course MIDI Clock outputs to one port only, I could work around that if I only used MIDI DIN via a MIDI splitter box but I use a mix of MIDI over USB and MIDI DIN so that's a non-starter too.

If I'm missing a trick with Reason here, please could some kind RT'er put me out of my misery. But I cannot see how it's possible to nudge MIDI timing back or forwards by a few ms for each device separately.

Net effect is Reason is my pure ITB setup (Reason DAW when I'm using my laptop when away from home) and Live 11 + RRP + hardware when I'm in my (tiny) music space at home. Either way, Reason ain't the DAW to use if you like a complex hybrid hardware/ITB setup... which means RS are missing out on an important market segment.

Stamatz
Posts: 78
Joined: 24 Jan 2019
Location: NY/USA

Post 10 Aug 2022

MuttReason wrote:
10 Aug 2022
chimp_spanner wrote:
10 Aug 2022


^ If I'm missing a trick with Reason here, please could some kind RT'er put me out of my misery. But I cannot see how it's possible to nudge MIDI timing back or forwards by a few ms for each device separately.

Net effect is Reason is my pure ITB setup (Reason DAW when I'm using my laptop when away from home) and Live 11 + RRP + hardware when I'm in my (tiny) music space at home. Either way, Reason ain't the DAW to use if you like a complex hybrid hardware/ITB setup... which means RS are missing out on an important market segment.
I sync three devices in Reason and never noticed them going out of sync but also use a thrid party program, loopMidi & Midi-Ox. They seems to work pretty well together. In Reason no input sync is selected, the output sync port is the LoopMidi Port. In Midi-Ox, the input port is the LoopMidi Port and the output ports are the devices you want to keep in-sync. You may also have to set your hardware to sync to an external source as I have to do with my RZ-1 everytime I turn it on. Not sure why I still have that device...lol. Hope this helps a little.
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Carpainter
Posts: 96
Joined: 28 Sep 2019

Post 10 Aug 2022

makke wrote:
07 Aug 2022
I don't wonder this at all. You know what happens when you are arrogant and too greedy. Reason and the RE's are so f***** expensive. They even increased the prices while ago. Synths used to be 99€, now they are, what, 129€? You can get so many good synths and FX's in 20-50€. Or even free. Market is over saturated anyway. Over 100€ plugins days are just over in these days. To justifiy over 100€ pricetag, you really, really need to have something special in these days.
Don't forget that all of their plugins are tied to Reason since they refuse to release VST versions. I'm wagering that there are a decent amount of people who stick with Reason simply because they've sunk so much money into RE's.

The base version of Reason has felt like an afterthought ever since the introduction of RE's, and they have even more incentive to withhold devices from the base version now that the focus is on Reason+.

groggy1
Posts: 463
Joined: 10 Jun 2015

Post 10 Aug 2022

Is it possible that the revenue reduction is by design? I though when companies introduce subscription the whole point is to measure MAU (monthly users) and grow that. Even if you lose money.

Ie the goal is to build a base of addicted users with a lower price.

Anyway, just wondering

Jac459
Posts: 421
Joined: 29 Mar 2022
Location: Singapore

Post 10 Aug 2022

groggy1 wrote:
10 Aug 2022
Is it possible that the revenue reduction is by design? I though when companies introduce subscription the whole point is to measure MAU (monthly users) and grow that. Even if you lose money.

Ie the goal is to build a base of addicted users with a lower price.

Anyway, just wondering
+1

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Faastwalker
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Post 10 Aug 2022

QVprod wrote:
10 Aug 2022
Faastwalker wrote:
10 Aug 2022

Just saw that. It definitely feels like it's ALL about Reason as a plug-in these days :cry:
I look at this very differently. There’s very little that RPP does that the full DAW doesn’t do. Actually literally just 1 minuscule thing and that’s trigger multiple instruments without a combinator. So showing the rack in another DAW is still showing the capabilities of Reason as a whole.
Must admit I've never tried it. Keen to give Bitwig a test drive. I've got a free version that was doing the rounds a while ago from one of the music tech mags. I'm Reason through and through. So reluctant to change (more stubbornly than I would have been years ago, when I was trying every DAW going!). But feeling like a should be hedging my bets for the reason (excuse the pun) I mentioned earlier - feels like it's all about the plug-in these days! :? Not sure where Reason is going to end up. I posted earlier saying that RS feels a bit all over the place these days with a lack of focus or direction. Some have since suggested they might focus on the Reason pug-in. I wouldn't like to see it myself but for RS maybe it would make sense? They already seem to be mostly focused on devices and sounds. What has changed in the core program in the last say 5 years? Not a huge amount really. As others have said it's certainly lagging behind the competition as a DAW and things happen in 'Reason time'. I should mention that I really like the sequencer myself, although I've not used another DAW for a lot of years now. I really don't appreciate what's happening in DAW land outside of Reason.

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Faastwalker
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Post 10 Aug 2022

....... just adding to that - Reason really started off as a rack of devices with a sequencer attached. That was until Record came along and the two products of course later merged.

If Reason does end up being just a plug-in it will be a bit like going back to it's roots. I remember using Reason with Cubase VST via Rewire. That was before VST was a thing! Full circle moment (kind of).

Jac459
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Location: Singapore

Post 10 Aug 2022

Faastwalker wrote:
10 Aug 2022

Must admit I've never tried it. Keen to give Bitwig a test drive. I've got a free version that was doing the rounds a while ago from one of the music tech mags. I'm Reason through and through. So reluctant to change (more stubbornly than I would have been years ago, when I was trying every DAW going!). But feeling like a should be hedging my bets for the reason (excuse the pun) I mentioned earlier - feels like it's all about the plug-in these days! :? Not sure where Reason is going to end up. I posted earlier saying that RS feels a bit all over the place these days with a lack of focus or direction. Some have since suggested they might focus on the Reason pug-in. I wouldn't like to see it myself but for RS maybe it would make sense? They already seem to be mostly focused on devices and sounds. What has changed in the core program in the last say 5 years? Not a huge amount really. As others have said it's certainly lagging behind the competition as a DAW and things happen in 'Reason time'. I should mention that I really like the sequencer myself, although I've not used another DAW for a lot of years now. I really don't appreciate what's happening in DAW land outside of Reason.
You should definitely give bitwig a test run. It really is the perfect partner for reason. You get the super modern approach and design, all the modern features and efficiency of bitwig AND the creativity and colourfulness of Reason.

Bitwig has modulator at heart of its workflow.
It is tough to explain but basically it makes it super easy to create all sorts of modulators (like LFOs but dozens of it) to modulate anything anywhere. It is very creative and goes very well with the reason rack. You can modulate a big range of instruments all automatically and at the same time.

And then the technical conception is top notch, it runs all plugins in separate sandbox.

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QVprod
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Post 10 Aug 2022

Faastwalker wrote:
10 Aug 2022
....... just adding to that - Reason really started off as a rack of devices with a sequencer attached. That was until Record came along and the two products of course later merged.
Pretty much.. and even then… Reason has always been heavy on devices. There isn’t a single upgrade cycle that came without a device whether on release or given away for free mid release cycle. Record was meant to be fairly simple and barebones. They never deviated from that.

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QVprod
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Post 10 Aug 2022

Carpainter wrote:
10 Aug 2022
Don't forget that all of their plugins are tied to Reason since they refuse to release VST versions. I'm wagering that there are a decent amount of people who stick with Reason simply because they've sunk so much money into RE's.
Honestly, I’m not sure why this is still an argument. RRP solves this… and there’s pretty much no reason to upgrade again afterwards. Possibly ever. It’s quite literally a way out.

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rcbuse
RE Developer
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Post 11 Aug 2022

I fell like R11 was really the version that packed in everything I ever wanted. Nothing in R12 for me personally. Then that upgrade price.. :shock: So along comes Bitwig with a free lite version, I try it and fall for it hard. It's a whole new world. then they send the offer to upgrade to full for like half price. Now I think it's R11 RRP from here on out. However, I will always be lined up to purchase whatever magic RE Peter Jubel cooks up.

I also find myself using my copy of Reaktor a lot more with the Bitwig host.

Jac459
Posts: 421
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Location: Singapore

Post 11 Aug 2022

Faastwalker wrote:
10 Aug 2022
....... just adding to that - Reason really started off as a rack of devices with a sequencer attached. That was until Record came along and the two products of course later merged.
Never thought of it like that but it is true actually, interresting perspective.

I feel it would be interresting for them to produce/market/sell more 'rack presets' showing the whole power of RRP through combinators.

Somzthing like that for example:
https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/rack ... -collider/
It is insanely fun, creative and easy to do with a combinator and then attach to an XY controller in ableton or bitwig.
If I had to make it from scratch in ableton or bitwig, first it wouldn't be totally possible but even something approaching would be complex (using containers).

My point is, having a rack as a vst and not just a single instrument does have constraints but unleash also a great deal of power that Reason studios should advertise more.

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crimsonwarlock
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Post 11 Aug 2022

Apart from the fact that I actually like the sequencer in Reason, the one thing you loose with RRP is that you can no longer link stuff inside the RRP in one channel to stuff in a RRP in another channel. This is one of the main things in Reason that I like so much: instruments and FX are 'in a channel' but also 'outside of the channel'. There is no other DAW with this capability afaik, and all functionality in other DAWs to replace this (e.g. routing signals between channels) feels clunky to me.

If they drop Reason Standalone, I will probably move to Tracktion Waveform, as that feels closest to the Reason sequencer for me. But it will be a huge step backward in how I can use the RE instruments and FX.

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Eprom
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Post 11 Aug 2022

Stamatz wrote:
10 Aug 2022

I sync three devices in Reason and never noticed them going out of sync but also use a thrid party program, loopMidi & Midi-Ox. They seems to work pretty well together. In Reason no input sync is selected, the output sync port is the LoopMidi Port. In Midi-Ox, the input port is the LoopMidi Port and the output ports are the devices you want to keep in-sync. You may also have to set your hardware to sync to an external source as I have to do with my RZ-1 everytime I turn it on. Not sure why I still have that device...lol. Hope this helps a little.
Look at the difference between Reason and Logic. In Reason you can send sync data to ONE port and ONE port alone. In Logic I can choose where and how to send my sync data. Kind of important when you have multiple hardware devices.

sync.jpg
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