Button to flush HI-res from RSN for good. Plus 8 bit video mixer.

This forum is for discussing Reason. Questions, answers, ideas, and opinions... all apply.

We want that button for opt out High Res graphics. And an 8 bit video mixer.

YES
6
22%
NO
21
78%
 
Total votes: 27
User avatar
Re8et
Posts: 1243
Joined: 14 Nov 2016

Post 31 Jul 2022

SPOILER:

Hi-Res graphics is just part of a bunch of problems, but all are probably related.

SYMPTOMS:

RSN12 freezes on me too much to be fair bc of High Res re-rendering* (*& other unknown problems)

FORENSIC ANALYSIS:

Same projects exported for RSN11 (no CMB 2.0) and they are like back to driving a Saab Turbo.

SOLUTIONS:

Please, please. Give us an option to opt-out from High res RSN 12 and later. And Flush all High Res graphics from our HD for good.

PROGRESS/DIGRESS:

High REs Reason 13 will have a 4k VIDEO MIXER with 256millions colors!!! Sold separatedly as a DLC only. All other can get Reason 13 Deluxe, 100% retro-compatible with your father ZX Spectrum, and can get the Video Mixer 8bit 4p version only in yellow. :puf_bigsmile:

PS:

Not opting out, means you will still get the nice High Res for Reason As a Plugin nice performance and all, it's not like
black or white, that's it folks ;) If anyone feels to chime, also, it might make a difference... :thumbs_up: :thumbs_down: (vote yellow :thumbup: )
Last edited by Re8et on 31 Jul 2022, edited 13 times in total.

User avatar
deeplink
Posts: 777
Joined: 08 Jul 2020
Location: Dubai / Cape Town

Post 31 Jul 2022

How do you know if its directly a cause of His Res graphics?
Get Combinators, ReFills and RS Giveaways at the Shared GoogleDrive: [deeplink] Open RS-Project

User avatar
Re8et
Posts: 1243
Joined: 14 Nov 2016

Post 31 Jul 2022

Idk... cache size for High res is possibly a cause, that can reach virtual mem limit faster... this I'm almost sure....
Last edited by Re8et on 31 Jul 2022, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Re8et
Posts: 1243
Joined: 14 Nov 2016

Post 31 Jul 2022

deeplink wrote:
31 Jul 2022
How do you know if its directly a cause of His Res graphics?
I see the re-rendering in RT. It freezes and when it's finished it moves again.
I can't say 100%. Experiences may vary. But my 12 core with AMD GT580 RX 8gb Vram 32 Gb Ram stutters and freezes
with any king of Re's. I made a song with all my RE, plus stock device. All of them. Put into combinators.
Reopened every combinator with 16 syhts or other fx device in new songs so to
make sure every device had its cache saved, scrolling and tabbing back and forth.
After that I started a new project with just 10 synths, and some 20 Re devices might be. And the graphics
did completely freeze for seconds at times with simple scrolling.
Same project in Reason 11. No combi 2.0. Same song. No Freezes. All good.
All High Re combined makes a massive cache.. lots of memory the problem is less perceptible...
Idk. it's a gut feeling. :puf_unhappy:


Also my Main PC with 32 Gb stutter, and that is completely unusual, never seen before... the number of tracks and
effects I can do has diminshed... I'm thinking at the consequences also, not just the causes.
Consequences are there, clearly visible....
if it's NOT high RE graphics drivers, what is that drives the mem cache to six digit numbers with relatively small songs??
Last edited by Re8et on 31 Jul 2022, edited 2 times in total.

Stamatz
Posts: 76
Joined: 24 Jan 2019
Location: NY/USA

Post 31 Jul 2022

When is the last time you've upgraded the AMD video drivers? 22.7.1 was just released, you could try to install those. You did't mention if your 12 core cpu is Intel or AMD but when was the last time you've updated your motherboard drivers? I just can't see how a system like yours is giving you any issues at all with freezing, etc. Sounds to me like a device mis-match or configuration issues of some sort. As a comparison, I can run R12 with Hi-Res on my Dell G3 laptop (Intel i5 9th gen / Nvidia 1660ti Max-Q / 16gb Ram) without any issues like that, your system is way more powerful than that and certainly capable of running R12 in HD without any issues whatsoever.
Do you by chance have Use Hyper-threading Audio Rendering enabled in the Preferences-Audio Tab? Try unchecking it if you do, see if that helps.
Nektar P4, Alesis VX49, Roland DJ-202, Korg DS-8, Casio RZ-1, Epiphone Guitar, MOTU M4, Presonus Audiobox 96, Samson BT Monitors. Twin Displays. AMD Ryzen 7 5800x 4.7 GHZ, 32 GB Ram, AMD Radeon 6800XT, 500GB SSD, 2TB 7200 HD, 500GB SSD:refillpacker:

User avatar
Re8et
Posts: 1243
Joined: 14 Nov 2016

Post 31 Jul 2022

Stamatz wrote:
31 Jul 2022
When,,,
Nah.
My W10 system is ultrafine, don't worry. It crashes my mac M1 by a Mile... and the same types of freezes are present on the M1 as well...
graphical - re- rendering freezes, software, massive mem usage.

Ask yourself, if there has been a massive memory increase from Rsn 11, and then ask yourself, if it's ok for you... your question looks like
you want to run a forensic on my part... it's un-relevant... it's your side you have to interrogate... and if so that your vote is no, please
provide me with a clue as your reasons behind that vote... or yes, in that case bring your arguments, and see if it can be a more constructive
thread than just one guy playing the scapegoat.

It's a fact. The consequences are the clue. to me it can be done. This is essential. Not a rollback. A more advanced option.
If you don't use, and want to flush High res graphics, let it be so. It's like asking to allow for Hyperthread to be an option.
What would you do if the choice wasn't there? Someone must have thinked about it first!!!

User avatar
Re8et
Posts: 1243
Joined: 14 Nov 2016

Post 31 Jul 2022

deeplink wrote:
31 Jul 2022
How do you know if its directly a cause of His Res graphics?
I know one thing for sure, that without High Res, combinator 2.0 will not work.

User avatar
jam-s
Posts: 2136
Joined: 17 Apr 2015
Location: Aachen, Germany

Post 31 Jul 2022

That's not going to happen. RS have trouble keeping a single code base working (see various regressions in recent releases). Expecting them to properly maintain two stable release versions is just delusional. Heck, they usually don't even manage to backport simple bugfixes for older versions.

User avatar
Re8et
Posts: 1243
Joined: 14 Nov 2016

Post 01 Aug 2022

jam-s wrote:
31 Jul 2022
That's not going to happen. RS have trouble keeping a single code base working (see various regressions in recent releases). Expecting them to properly maintain two stable release versions is just delusional. Heck, they usually don't even manage to backport simple bugfixes for older versions.
Why two versions? It's just about a simple clear cache button just for high res, and a subsequent cmd that should be read accordingly from the Authorizer NOT to download any further High res.

User avatar
jam-s
Posts: 2136
Joined: 17 Apr 2015
Location: Aachen, Germany

Post 01 Aug 2022

I don't think the HiRes assets alone are causing the bugs and performance problems people are seeing, but the underlying new opengl rendering engine and to get rid of that RS would have to maintain two different rendering engines resp. code bases.

Implementing a toggle for the RE download only would not be that hard, imho.

User avatar
jonnyretina
Posts: 75
Joined: 18 Jun 2022
Location: England

Post 02 Aug 2022

Re8et wrote:
31 Jul 2022
Please, please. Give us an option to opt-out from High res RSN 12 and later. And Flush all High Res graphics from our HD for good.
In principal it's a nice idea but I don't think Reason Studios have the coding chops to do it (cue avasopht popping up with a lengthy post about how difficult software engineering is and that it is unreasonable of us to expect anything more from the current state of Reason's code stability!).

Best thing to do is either roll yourself back to R11/R10 and just stay there until they've got Reason properly stable again. Or just work with it/through it (which imho is only really worth it if you have a proper HiDPI display for the new graphic assets and can't stand the old pixellated ones and/or you don't have Serato Sample VST and are a really heavy user of Mimic). Obviously Reason+ users have no choice but to use the latest version.

unclenofun
Posts: 36
Joined: 26 Sep 2018

Post 02 Aug 2022

the Hi res thing was never an issue for me (before implementing it and also on 12 no issues for me) but I do recall a looong time a go that it was a highly requested feature....Reason took note and responded by saying it was something that they were looking in to but it would require re coding from the bottom up...so it would take quite a long time and may introduce quite a few bugs

I think that was the jist of what said (it was a few years back and I wasn't really paying attention cos I didn't have a hi res monitor)

seems like Reason were right in the fact it would take a long time and might cause issues (but I could be wrong in what they said a few years back)

User avatar
selig
RE Developer
Posts: 10232
Joined: 15 Jan 2015
Location: The NorthWoods, CT, USA

Post 02 Aug 2022

So to be clear, it sounds like you are asking for an additional feature to be added, which could be quite complex (even though it sounds simple) and draw resources away from fixing the current problems and would likely add MORE bugs as well as further delay future features? If so, nope. ;)
Selig Audio, LLC

Tweak
Posts: 116
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

Post 02 Aug 2022

RS let us know the HiRes changes to the application took a significant rewrite of code. Whilst on the surface it looks to everyone that reverting to the normal resolution graphics will be a straightforward switch of images assets, its very likely this is not the case.

I'd suggest (without knowing for sure, but call it a hunch :D ) that reverting the assets to low res would still use all the newly written, significantly changed code paths, and its these rather than the images themselves that are causing the bugs people are seeing. In short, a switch of images now the codebase has been wholesale upgraded is not going to give you the stability you crave, only time and more bug fixes will.

User avatar
stillifegaijin
Posts: 151
Joined: 27 Oct 2020

Post 02 Aug 2022

Isn't the no HiRes option to just keep using Reason 11?

User avatar
Re8et
Posts: 1243
Joined: 14 Nov 2016

Post 02 Aug 2022

stillifegaijin wrote:
02 Aug 2022
Isn't the no HiRes option to just keep using Reason 11?
Well it looks like it is an overwhelmingly no who's winning the pool...
Yes, I will stay on RS 11 on my i3 laptop, I can live without Mimic. And Cmb 2.0...
For live set it is the best option.
Maybe, it could be cross-tested properly fort to test performance gains.
I have many issues on my mac for corrupted data.components.AU plugin only.
And I have to remove those manually. Standalone no problems.
Or, uninstall and re-install everything. I'm not a great fan of MACs. Never been. Just saying.
Hopefully some test will come along. :puf_smile:

User avatar
Re8et
Posts: 1243
Joined: 14 Nov 2016

Post 02 Aug 2022

jam-s wrote:
01 Aug 2022
I don't think the HiRes assets alone are causing the bugs and performance problems people are seeing, but the underlying new opengl rendering engine and to get rid of that RS would have to maintain two different rendering engines resp. code bases.

Implementing a toggle for the RE download only would not be that hard, imho.
My I3, had struggles already with Rs 9-10 when scrolling.
Only using the minimap would not freeze the video scrolling.
I have NO external gpu. Only an I3 with integrated graphics.
New ARC intels uses egpu integrated graphics.
M 1 uses integrated graphic similar to the new ARC egpu.
I have never seen good Opengl benchmark on on integrated graphics.
I don't think it's something that coding can "fix". Not on old standard X86.

So basically there's no going back. Would be nice to set a maximum dpi alongside the RE only?
Some way to tell opengl to limit its maximum resources access...? Like 480p only... 720p... this kind of
resolution... Push 4k render on a 480p monitor is beyond useless... my M1 run on 760p...
And I suspect this is going on the background..


Anyway. M1 Mac has same OpenGL score of a Radeon RX 560. It should have any problems
running even on Rosetta. I have a RX 580 btw on my main PC... So Specwise it sounds
absurd OpenGl can cause problems on both systems with 2.6Teraflops throughput...

https://www.geeks3d.com/20210202/apple- ... st-opengl/
Last edited by Re8et on 03 Aug 2022, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Re8et
Posts: 1243
Joined: 14 Nov 2016

Post 03 Aug 2022

High Res thoughts on the web.
Spoiler: not a big deal...


jlgrimes
Posts: 620
Joined: 06 Jun 2017

Post 03 Aug 2022

Re8et wrote:
31 Jul 2022
SPOILER:

Hi-Res graphics is just part of a bunch of problems, but all are probably related.

SYMPTOMS:

RSN12 freezes on me too much to be fair bc of High Res re-rendering* (*& other unknown problems)

FORENSIC ANALYSIS:

Same projects exported for RSN11 (no CMB 2.0) and they are like back to driving a Saab Turbo.

SOLUTIONS:

Please, please. Give us an option to opt-out from High res RSN 12 and later. And Flush all High Res graphics from our HD for good.

PROGRESS/DIGRESS:

High REs Reason 13 will have a 4k VIDEO MIXER with 256millions colors!!! Sold separatedly as a DLC only. All other can get Reason 13 Deluxe, 100% retro-compatible with your father ZX Spectrum, and can get the Video Mixer 8bit 4p version only in yellow. :puf_bigsmile:

PS:

Not opting out, means you will still get the nice High Res for Reason As a Plugin nice performance and all, it's not like
black or white, that's it folks ;) If anyone feels to chime, also, it might make a difference... :thumbs_up: :thumbs_down: (vote yellow :thumbup: )
These are growing pains. Reason isn't alone here. I think they just need to continue fixing bugs/improving performance and these issues will be worked out eventually.

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