Reason 12.2.7 Release Notes

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helmutson
Posts: 191
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Post 01 Jul 2022

I think there is a good reason, that they don't solve that cosmetic transport bar problem. Nobody, beside RS, knows why ... when they think this is not a big deal, whatever ...

MuttReason
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Post 01 Jul 2022

joeyluck wrote:
30 Jun 2022
I hadn't noticed it, but I use the default theme, mostly at 100%. And I guess it doesn't appear until you hover or click on it?

To the defense of Mattias, he is only trying to help. Getting in touch with support is the best suggestion. Joining the beta is even better, I'd say.

There wasn't much detail given in the post as to the exact issues, and they've probably narrowed down some more serious issues recently based on what he said, and he was only suggesting what the culprit could be and also said "if that's the case."

He suggested to get in touch with support and took a guess at what the issue could be given the only info mentioned was "GUI issues even in the transport section". And that sentence suggests that it's not just the transport...
No the glitch is there all the time, not when you hover over it, and it is there at every zoom setting I’ve used (including I think at 100% from memory, need to check though). Consistent on both my Intel Macs. It’s not a dealbreaker at all but it is, without doubt, abundantly obvious. If I’m seeing it on both my Macs (both fairly recent) and others on this board are seeing it on their Intel Macs (certainly seems to be the case from previous posts) then I cannot believe for a moment that it is not also obvious to anyone at RS who uses an Intel Mac (which - reasonable guess - has got to be at least some of the people at RS, right?). That’s the thing I don’t understand. It’s great that Matthias is reaching out but I think it’s out of whack to cite old graphics cards as the root cause of remaining graphics glitches when this transport bar bug has persisted through successive R12 builds and seems to arise across an entire category of computers (recent Intel Macs) that have a standard graphics card build as well as (IIRC) M1 Macs and PC setups with new graphics cards that aren’t AMD. It just doesn’t make sense.

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MattiasHG
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Post 01 Jul 2022

helmutson wrote:
30 Jun 2022
MattiasHG wrote:
30 Jun 2022


Get in touch with support about which GUI issues you're experiencing. A vast majority of everything should be solved now, but certain GPU series and drivers have proven to be incompatible. Specifically certain older AMD Radeon series GPUs. They're also so old the manufacturer is no longer updating the driver, which means it's quite hard to address. Support can help identify if that's the case for you and explore workarounds.
I'm on a brand new M1 Macmini ... for comparisation, I have an Intel Windows machine, very new too, with the exact same GUI bugs , like strange lines/shadows around and on the transport "switches" and so on ... but maybe that's not so important for RS, because it's only (or mostly) in the DAW and obviously you guys have more focus on the RRP .
Then definitely get in touch with support! There are some quite major graphic glitches with older AMD Radeon GPUs (displays disappearing etc.) so I thought that was what you were experiencing since it's quite jarring. The important thing is getting in touch about which glitches you're experiencing, that'll help us make sure they're fixed. I said the majority of glitches should be resolved, not everything. That's why reports are so appreciated!

And to answer your last post, it's not across all computers. For example my M1 MacBook Pro does not show these artifacts. Doesn't mean they're not an issue, but it means it's important for us to get reports to know on which setups and settings they appear.

helmutson
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Post 01 Jul 2022

OK, again - I'm on a brand new M1 processor too, but whatever - I send the issue to the support. Now finally it's in the safe hands of RS and everything will be fine in no time ...

BTW, every video or picture of R12 I saw until yet got this issue, even your promo videos,
did you know what we mean ? JiggeryPokery posted a picture of it some posts before ... :puf_unhappy:

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MattiasHG
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Post 01 Jul 2022

helmutson wrote:
01 Jul 2022
OK, again - I'm on a brand new M1 processor too, but whatever - I send the issue to the support. Now finally it's in the safe hands of RS and everything will be fine in no time ...

BTW, every video or picture of R12 I saw until yet got this issue, even your promo videos,
did you know what we mean ? JiggeryPokery posted a picture of it some posts before ... :puf_unhappy:
Yeah, it was very clear from the picture. We'll investigate!

EDIT: For reference, this is how it looks for me: Image

After some fiddling I managed to get the lines to appear after switching to Dark Mode and back, then changing zoom levels. So will pass that on to QA and the devs. This isn't necessarily higher priority than some other issues, but hopefully it's an easy fix. Thanks for reporting!

helmutson
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Post 01 Jul 2022

Yes, thats how it should be !

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Loque
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Post 01 Jul 2022

Probably some calculations like

Code: Select all

int top = Math.Floor( Bar.top + 12 - 4 * scale * (scaleWinOrMac + 1) - Correction + 13 - 5 / Magic + (MoreMagic - 1 * 10 ) * AppZoom/OScale + 1 ) ;
Shame on you, if you made a mistake here :thumbs_down:
Reason12, Win10

MuttReason
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Post 01 Jul 2022

MattiasHG wrote:
01 Jul 2022
helmutson wrote:
01 Jul 2022
OK, again - I'm on a brand new M1 processor too, but whatever - I send the issue to the support. Now finally it's in the safe hands of RS and everything will be fine in no time ...

BTW, every video or picture of R12 I saw until yet got this issue, even your promo videos,
did you know what we mean ? JiggeryPokery posted a picture of it some posts before ... :puf_unhappy:
Yeah, it was very clear from the picture. We'll investigate!

EDIT: For reference, this is how it looks for me: Image

After some fiddling I managed to get the lines to appear after switching to Dark Mode and back, then changing zoom levels. So will pass that on to QA and the devs. This isn't necessarily higher priority than some other issues, but hopefully it's an easy fix. Thanks for reporting!
Mattias - thank you. It’s a small thing but it stands out. Squashing this one would be good.

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JiggeryPokery
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Post 01 Jul 2022

MuttReason wrote:
01 Jul 2022
MattiasHG wrote:
01 Jul 2022


Yeah, it was very clear from the picture. We'll investigate!

EDIT: For reference, this is how it looks for me: Image

After some fiddling I managed to get the lines to appear after switching to Dark Mode and back, then changing zoom levels. So will pass that on to QA and the devs. This isn't necessarily higher priority than some other issues, but hopefully it's an easy fix. Thanks for reporting!
Mattias - thank you. It’s a small thing but it stands out. Squashing this one would be good.
Yes, baby steps. But the slightly disconcerting thing with the transport glitches is there was already an update to fix some of that (where the delay comp text was the wrong background/overlapping). I'm afraid I just don't buy that what I call the "button scaling" issue was unknown about at that time, I know I discussed it with a TPer right after R12 dropped. People shouldn't have to risk getting batch, or sarky or just downright rude on public forums or staff end up lying or being disingenuous to users to get things acknowledged and fixed. As with the next issue, it's really not a good look for anyone.

Here's another problem. And again, it's not a program-killing megabug, but it's an annoying UI glitch, that's plain distracting and really shouldn't be occuring in a premium product, a year after release. These kinds of teething issues, that might get a pass day one, should be resolved long before now.



FWIW, I was also looking for the infamous "rack shimmer" just now, and while I won't state as fact it's entirely gone, I'll note I've not seen that typically-reported behaviour this morning and I remember confirming it here when it was described, so if that's been actively looked at and fixed, that's also a positive. But sadly it's not entirely OK: I'm still getting a glitch where a little black line keeps flickering on and off. Yeah, it's so petty and insignificant, but it's there, and these little things all add up to a greater amount of frustation and concern that things aren't really being done in a complete fashion.
Screenshot 2022-07-01 151537.png
While I was there screen-grabbing that I rechecked zoom-to-track, and that's still not fixed either. :puf_unhappy: I still can't believe that was even implemented like that. If a user selects a clip on track six to zoom into, the users wants to zoom in to that clip on track six, not track one. You can add a hundred new devices to your subscription system, but when it takes literally two actions to get to where you want to be when it could and should only be one, it's adding complexity and frustration, by taking literally twice as much time and effort. It all adds up to more :(

I guess if genuinely no-one has ever reported an "obvious" bug, because it's so obvious someone was sure to have already reported it, so it ends up no-one actually does, then fair enough: one can't fix a bug one hasn't seen! And I get there are other scenarios where things do have to be left as-is, as certain things do generally have to have a cut-off time in development and be called "finished". But those things do need to be fundamentally finished with no known bugs (notwithstanding rare outliers discovered much later) before that happens, not merely half-built just to be able to list it in the Product Release notes then just left because you've already moved on to next feature that will also end up being half-implemented because one works to release dates rather than finished features.

Like, here's another for free: the other day I was confused to find the load browser doesn't provide basic right-click file options like... Rename. :lol:
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chimp_spanner
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Post 01 Jul 2022

This reminds me actually, while graphical stability seems to be good for me I have noticed shimmering/jittering in the arranger preview bar at the bottom. I keep meaning to report it but I'm always so stuck on work and it's not something that actually impacts me so I just forget. I shall do that next time I'm doing testing.

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JiggeryPokery
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Post 01 Jul 2022

JiggeryPokery wrote:
01 Jul 2022


FWIW, I was also looking for the infamous "rack shimmer" just now, and while I won't state as fact it's entirely gone, I'll note I've not seen that typically-reported behaviour this morning and I remember confirming it here when it was described, so if that's been actively looked at and fixed, that's also a positive.
Quick update, no, it's not fixed. But the exact screen arrangement to trigger it is... I'm not sure yet. When that NNXT was folded, it wasn't happening, and even then in a certain position it doesn't seem to happen, but scroll a bit and then it starts. The sequencer needs to be running too, from what I can tell.

Again it's just... weird. It's so subtle that it's almost like an optical illusion and you're trying to convince yourself it's not really happening and it's just a trick of the shadows. Reason by gaslight!


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plaamook
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Post 01 Jul 2022

Maybe if you set the language to Swedish you don’t get any graphical errors.
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Spasy
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Post 01 Jul 2022

plaamook wrote:
01 Jul 2022
Maybe if you set the language to Swedish you don’t get any graphical errors.
nailed it!! :thumbup: :clap: :lol: :lol:

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avasopht
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Post 01 Jul 2022

There are lots of graphical errors with graphical displays as well.

The truth is, there are no easy ways about it. You can either get:
  • Pixel-perfect graphics with a high risk of glitches and/or wonky-looking alignment (plus lots of opportunities for bugs and uncertain behaviour) ... or
  • A rack that scales easily but will not have the sharpest edges (and all those pixel-perfect fonts risk looking uber blurry and difficult to read).
You see this a lot more with custom displays!

Image

Personally, I'd opt for the latter. Plus you can use an anti-aliasing post filter like DLSS but for restoring pixel-perfect text (and maybe even edges).

But yunoe ... ... ... it's a very common practice in the film and games industry to bring in specialist graphics programming contractors.

While it is just 2d, what Reason is doing is highly advanced. There are so many tradeoffs and exceptional cases to consider. And as we saw with the instability bugs, it turned out to be a bit of a skirmish.

But man ... if these guys can render this much graphics detail 60 times per second and stay stable, ... ... ... I'm sure there was something to be had there.... ... ...

Last edited by avasopht on 02 Jul 2022, edited 2 times in total.
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ProfessaKaos
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Post 01 Jul 2022

joeyluck wrote:
30 Jun 2022
Don't ever assume anything is reported.
Quote of the day. You want the software to work on your system then report it, if others are experiencing it then the more it will be acknowledged.
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JiggeryPokery
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Post 03 Jul 2022

avasopht wrote:
01 Jul 2022
There are lots of graphical errors with graphical displays as well.

The truth is, there are no easy ways about it. You can either get:
  • Pixel-perfect graphics with a high risk of glitches and/or wonky-looking alignment (plus lots of opportunities for bugs and uncertain behaviour) ... or
  • A rack that scales easily but will not have the sharpest edges (and all those pixel-perfect fonts risk looking uber blurry and difficult to read).
Sure, sometimes there have to be tradeoffs, and I agree the speed of the bitmaps refreshing on zoom change even before it gets cached is pretty impressive, although the curious limitation of values is baffling. Why hard limit to 240? Don't 4K users want to zoom in? And why steps of 20%, thus preventing nicely rounded scales, like 150%? ("Oh, it's so people don't waste hard drive space on lot of cached bitmaps!", "Cool, so they're going to be uncombining 1GB of wav files from song files so you don't waste hard drive space duping those wav files every time you do an incremental save to your Dropbox then? :) Oh, you mean hard drive space isn't the issue then!?" Or they could have, you know, just added a "Clear Graphics Cache" option. Here's a notion: people won't generally use every zoom step you provide! )

But "no easy ways"? Sorry, but it looks like you're trying to find ways justify their poor/lazy decision-making on their behalf, when they should be justifying those decisions not to fix and update issues themselves. And they don't. Font scaling is a long-solved problem.

nnxt.jpg
That should be pin sharp at all resolutions and Reason 12 zoom settings. (That's 100% and 140%)

I'm assuming the font being used in NNXT's display is a bitmap font, not a vector. So... why the bleedin' fuck not change it? They do have monospaced fonts in the system (although the font selections in Windows, at least, are very funky with multiple kerning issues, like they were developed in-house by a one-week intern who'd never built a font before, just to save a few hundred bucks on licencing fees of a proper font).

FWIW, I posted about that NNXT text right after R12 dropped, so that's a known issue. I seem to recall a couple of people being very dismissive of it despite it obviously not looking ok. A year later, you can see it's not been fixed. Is this purely a Windows thing? I don't know how this stuff looks on Mac. Is it all right on Mac and it's just Windows users being second-class citizens (2022, still no WASAPI support, for example - how much would laptop users like to have access to that?).

And while joey is correct about not reporting, as indeed I mentioned myself above, the downside remains that if—to take the most extreme, albeit unlikely possibility—if the only people posting/reporting about GUI issues are people with old AMD graphics and everyone on Nvidia cards gives obvious errors like those being discussed here a free pass because "oh, well, it's ok and acceptable because was all so complicated there were bound to be errors!", as avasopht seems to be stating here, then the result is bad data: a perception it's that only old AMD cards still having issues, and you end up with actual real official statements from Reason Studios saying Nvidia users have no issues and implying those issues remain will remain aren't worth fixing as its the users fault for not upgrading their hardware to whatever mythical, legendary, unstated level RS have as an acceptable baseline, when actually most everyone has the same errors and everyone would benefit from them being resolved!

It's fine to say "don't ever assume anything is reported", I noted that myself above, but when you know it has been reported—usually by Test Pilots prior to launch—and it's not been fixed even a year later, then you know it's just being ignored.
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Eprom
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Post 03 Jul 2022

MattiasHG wrote:
30 Jun 2022
Get in touch with support about which GUI issues you're experiencing. A vast majority of everything should be solved now, but certain GPU series and drivers have proven to be incompatible. Specifically certain older AMD Radeon series GPUs. They're also so old the manufacturer is no longer updating the driver, which means it's quite hard to address. Support can help identify if that's the case for you and explore workarounds.
Forgive my ignorance Mattias, but where/how do I file these bugs?

I too still have GUI issues on my Mac Mini M1 while using RRP in Logic.
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ProfessaKaos
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Post 03 Jul 2022

ProfessaKaos wrote:
30 Jun 2022
Any Serato Sample owners?

I am experiencing a bug where Serato Samples GUI does not fully display the whole GUI. The bottom and right hand side of the GUI get cut off which makes some of Serato Samples functions not useable as you can't get to them. Anyone else experiencing this?

This was happening in the previous build and this latest one.
I have created a ticket for it, and welcome anyone who is also experiencing this to create one also.

Anyway I really appreciate the effort Reason Studio's are putting in to squash bugs. Thank you
For anyone who is interested, I figured out what is causing my issue. I have Windows set to a custom scale of 110%, this causes Serato Sample and possibly other plugins (yet to come across) to not fully display the plugin in the plugin window as the plugin window is trying display the plugin GUI as 100% not 110% in a 110% scale which just doesn't fit. If I change Windows custom scale to 100% or a preset custom scale like 125% etc it all works perfectly fine and everything is displayed correctly, the issue/bug only happens when I enter in my own custom scale percentage. Hope this helps anyone else with the same issue.
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plaamook
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Post 04 Jul 2022

Eprom wrote:
03 Jul 2022
MattiasHG wrote:
30 Jun 2022
Get in touch with support about which GUI issues you're experiencing. A vast majority of everything should be solved now, but certain GPU series and drivers have proven to be incompatible. Specifically certain older AMD Radeon series GPUs. They're also so old the manufacturer is no longer updating the driver, which means it's quite hard to address. Support can help identify if that's the case for you and explore workarounds.
Forgive my ignorance Mattias, but where/how do I file these bugs?

I too still have GUI issues on my Mac Mini M1 while using RRP in Logic.
This guy/gal/person wins
That's some serious GUI issues for sure.
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EnochLight
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Post 05 Jul 2022

MattiasHG wrote:
01 Jul 2022
Yeah, it was very clear from the picture. We'll investigate!

EDIT: For reference, this is how it looks for me: Image

After some fiddling I managed to get the lines to appear after switching to Dark Mode and back, then changing zoom levels. So will pass that on to QA and the devs. This isn't necessarily higher priority than some other issues, but hopefully it's an easy fix. Thanks for reporting!
For reference, have them look at bug ticket #105561 (I reported this back in September 2021). I agree it's pretty low priority, but would be nice to have fixed at some point.
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avasopht
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Post 07 Jul 2022

Running Reason 12 demo songs with a 64-frame buffer had a few brief dropouts during the first 30 seconds (probably from everything being fresh in memory) ... but was stable afterwards with the CPU meter barely registering (well ... that's assuming CPU usage was low and that the GUI wasn't just glitching 😜).

I still feel really uncomfortable upgrading to R12 though. I just feel like I'm gonna open a file and it'll get unstable and start sending out drunk texts or something 😂

And it's coming up to my 20-year anniversary of using Reason by the way! I took part in a music production workshop that summer ... ... feels like yesterday!
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MuttReason
Posts: 132
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Post 08 Jul 2022

avasopht wrote:
07 Jul 2022
Running Reason 12 demo songs with a 64-frame buffer had a few brief dropouts during the first 30 seconds (probably from everything being fresh in memory) ... but was stable afterwards with the CPU meter barely registering (well ... that's assuming CPU usage was low and that the GUI wasn't just glitching 😜).

I still feel really uncomfortable upgrading to R12 though. I just feel like I'm gonna open a file and it'll get unstable and start sending out drunk texts or something 😂

And it's coming up to my 20-year anniversary of using Reason by the way! I took part in a music production workshop that summer ... ... feels like yesterday!
How does it perform with 128 samples buffer? FWIW I run 48khz/128 samples and R12 is glitch free even with large and complex tracks but I can hit crackles and CPU spikes at 64 samples buffer. This is on MacBook Pro (Intel, 2018 model, 8Gb RAM, Focusrite USB-C interface - not that powerful a rig really). I’ve found R12 latest build to be super solid so far apart from a couple of tiny graphics glitches (like the transport bar bug). But I know that’s not everyone’s experience… it’s a bit of a lottery I think.

Stamatz
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Post 08 Jul 2022

My Findings. All the graphic glitches I have been experiencing are at an application zoom level other than 100%.
The two distinct glitches I have are the transport bar icons (Stop/Start/Loop) showing blocks around them and two, when draging and instrument in the rack from one column to the other I get lines across the screen. If I continue to hold ithe device and move over those lines they kinda almost erase themsleves. When I drop the device the lines disappear in most cases. Again this is at a zoom level other than 100%, once I go back to 100% everything works as it should.

My main display is set to natively to 2560x1440 (2K) and my other display is set natively to 1980x1080. I've experimented with several different display settings and each gave the same results. But once I went back to 100% zoom everything was fine even when dragging. Was hoping to find a solution but nothing I tried (super-sampling, adjusting display setting, adjusting graphic settijngs, etc. worked.
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avasopht
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Post 08 Jul 2022

MuttReason wrote:
08 Jul 2022
avasopht wrote:
07 Jul 2022
Running Reason 12 demo songs with a 64-frame buffer had a few brief dropouts during the first 30 seconds (probably from everything being fresh in memory) ... but was stable afterwards with the CPU meter barely registering (well ... that's assuming CPU usage was low and that the GUI wasn't just glitching 😜).

I still feel really uncomfortable upgrading to R12 though. I just feel like I'm gonna open a file and it'll get unstable and start sending out drunk texts or something 😂

And it's coming up to my 20-year anniversary of using Reason by the way! I took part in a music production workshop that summer ... ... feels like yesterday!
How does it perform with 128 samples buffer? FWIW I run 48khz/128 samples and R12 is glitch free even with large and complex tracks but I can hit crackles and CPU spikes at 64 samples buffer. This is on MacBook Pro (Intel, 2018 model, 8Gb RAM, Focusrite USB-C interface - not that powerful a rig really). I’ve found R12 latest build to be super solid so far apart from a couple of tiny graphics glitches (like the transport bar bug). But I know that’s not everyone’s experience… it’s a bit of a lottery I think.
Pretty fine, and the dropouts at 64 frames stopped once everything was loaded into cache.
---

helmutson
Posts: 191
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Post 12 Jul 2022

Stamatz wrote:
08 Jul 2022
My Findings. All the graphic glitches I have been experiencing are at an application zoom level other than 100%.
The two distinct glitches I have are the transport bar icons (Stop/Start/Loop) showing blocks around them and two, when draging and instrument in the rack from one column to the other I get lines across the screen. If I continue to hold ithe device and move over those lines they kinda almost erase themsleves. When I drop the device the lines disappear in most cases. Again this is at a zoom level other than 100%, once I go back to 100% everything works as it should.

My main display is set to natively to 2560x1440 (2K) and my other display is set natively to 1980x1080. I've experimented with several different display settings and each gave the same results. But once I went back to 100% zoom everything was fine even when dragging. Was hoping to find a solution but nothing I tried (super-sampling, adjusting display setting, adjusting graphic settijngs, etc. worked.
Same here. Btw, zoom level 200% doesn't produced artifacts and glitches too, but thats not a very practical mode ...

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