Future Reason Sequencer/Stand-alone DAW Teaser Video

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craste
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Post 22 Jun 2022

Who remembers this Propellerhead teaser video, where you could only see the reaction on the faces of people who got to see the new SSL style mixer it for the first time?



It then got me thinking what would need to change for me to upgrade (I'm on 11 Suite) and I think it would have to be a total refresh of the sequencer so that it emcompases the many requests for workflow people have always asked for.

I think as its Reason Studios they will go about it in a really interesting way ( I imagine and hope) as they are quite unique and think 'outside the box' usually.

I do hope they have somthing to wow us in terms of the sequencer to entice people back to work fully within Reason and not have to use the plugin in another DAW. Nothing wrong with that of course but I think many people would just rather work in one DAW!

Hopefully it will require another video like the above!

I really love Reason and now use it as a plugin within Ableton, and I really wanted to upgrade using the 60% off, as I have always supported Reason Studios and want to continue to do so, as they do great things.

The reason I didn't upgrade, is because I'm only running a 1080p screen, so won't see much of a visual change, and I don't use samplers very often or would have much use for the new combinator, so it would be a bit of a waste of money for me I think.

I do hope Reason 13 is all about the Sequencer!

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Creativemind
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Post 22 Jun 2022

I agree that many of the requests people have mentioned including a big lot by myself need implementing buy as they've stated recently, won't be till Reason 13 so next July-2024 or so. The rest of this year we should see 2 new updates - the M1 and VST3 and is there 2 new devices coming, one being a player?

I can't believe for me, how good the Reaper / Reason Rack Plug-In combo is, brilliant. I think there's too many feature's missing to pull me back into using Reason as a stand-alone product again (at least 40 feature's) so would just like them to add loading of VST's into Combinators in the RRP, a few key browser implementations (tempo match with half & double speeds, pitch shift, dB Display on volume slider, audio wave display, folder refresh button etc etc), sampling directly into NN-XT, NN-19, Grain, ReDrum, Kong and Europa and Undo History in the RRP and I'd happily upgrade for those + going from 11, the swish new hi-res graphics, Mimic, new Combinator and the better browser search.

Don't remember that vid either. Must have been a few months before I first used Reason in September 2012 (3 months after 6.5 was realeased).
Last edited by Creativemind on 22 Jun 2022, edited 1 time in total.
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Billy+
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Post 22 Jun 2022

I very nearly grabbed the 12 upgrade just because it was %60 off but I really couldn't bring myself to purchase it and I'm one of those who has basically been buying the upgrades since version 1.

I would love to see the effort used in creating R12 put into standalone daw features and performance for the next version and if vst midi gets added I will definitely be buying, but I'm not upgrading anymore until I see stuff that I will use being included.

The only real problem with that outlook is that with this current rolling release I might not be seeing anything actually included and available until the end of a development cycle.

I hope they return to a feature ready release next version.

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Creativemind
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Post 22 Jun 2022

Billy+ wrote:
22 Jun 2022
and if vst midi gets added I will definitely be buying
You mean so things like Xfer Cthulu will work in Reason?
:reason:

Reason Studio's 11.3 / Cockos Reaper 6.61 / Cakewalk By Bandlab / Orion 8.6
http://soundcloud.com/creativemind75/iv ... soul-mix-3

Steedus
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Post 22 Jun 2022

No doubt the introduction of Record with the audio recording, and the SSL mixer among other things, was a momentous step up for Reason (imo).

But if I can be slightly controversial for a moment .. I actually like that Reason's sequencer is more on the basic side.. Sure I'm not a professional. I don't make money from my music, it's purely a hobby. But I also have Logic, and just opening it up, it's like a barrage of options and settings and functions hitting me in the face. No doubt you can achieve alot more using it, but for music creation? It just gets in the way - for me.

btw I love how basic 'social media marketing' was back in the day.

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Billy+
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Post 22 Jun 2022

Creativemind wrote:
22 Jun 2022
Billy+ wrote:
22 Jun 2022
and if vst midi gets added I will definitely be buying
You mean so things like Xfer Cthulu will work in Reason?
Yes and Capitan Chords and Scaler - all the good stuff that players are never going to be able to compete with.
Players are cool and fun to use but they are far too limited and expensive when compared with vst midi devices.

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bxbrkrz
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Post 22 Jun 2022

I really love Reason and now use it as a plugin within Ableton, and I really wanted to upgrade using the 60% off, as I have always supported Reason Studios and want to continue to do so, as they do great things.

The reason I didn't upgrade, is because I'm only running a 1080p screen, so won't see much of a visual change, and I don't use samplers very often or would have much use for the new combinator, so it would be a bit of a waste of money for me I think.

I do hope Reason 13 is all about the Sequencer!


100%
Buy whatever you love.
But
Vade retro FOMO!
757365206c6f67696320746f207365656b20616e73776572732075736520726561736f6e20746f2066696e6420776973646f6d

Jac459
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Post 22 Jun 2022

Creativemind wrote:
22 Jun 2022
I can't believe for me, how good the Reaper / Reason Rack Plug-In combo is, brilliant. I think there's too many feature's missing to pull me back into using Reason as a stand-alone product again (at least 40 feature's)...
I feel I have a severe FOMO but could you please list a few of these missing features? The reason I am asking this is that the only features I have seen missing in the DAW are shortcuts that I feel counterproductive for my own workflow (example: doing side-chaining through right clicking instead of properly wiring the devices, for me I like the manual way because it gives me all the tweaking ideas to hack the process and find new sounds).

Not talking about m1 support and VST3 that are way too discussed already.

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crimsonwarlock
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Post 23 Jun 2022

Steedus wrote:
22 Jun 2022
But if I can be slightly controversial for a moment .. I actually like that Reason's sequencer is more on the basic side.. Sure I'm not a professional. I don't make money from my music, it's purely a hobby. But I also have Logic, and just opening it up, it's like a barrage of options and settings and functions hitting me in the face. No doubt you can achieve alot more using it, but for music creation? It just gets in the way - for me.
I'm right there with you. It's one of the reasons I moved from Reaper to Reason.

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selig
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Post 23 Jun 2022

Steedus wrote:
22 Jun 2022
No doubt the introduction of Record with the audio recording, and the SSL mixer among other things, was a momentous step up for Reason (imo).

But if I can be slightly controversial for a moment .. I actually like that Reason's sequencer is more on the basic side.. Sure I'm not a professional. I don't make money from my music, it's purely a hobby. But I also have Logic, and just opening it up, it's like a barrage of options and settings and functions hitting me in the face. No doubt you can achieve alot more using it, but for music creation? It just gets in the way - for me.
They are not mutually exclusive. You can add functionality BY simplifying the interface. For example, by simplifying the sequencer so that every control for an instrument is folded into ONE track (no fader automation on it’s own track, MIDI on it’s own track, etc) which would allow things like overlaying automation curves on the audio waveform etc. This would both simplify the interface while also adding functionality, as but one example. You could similarly combine audio/instruments in the Rack View. You could automatically sync the order of tracks/channels so you’re spending less time searching for the thing you were just looking at in the another window. You could allow simple ‘folding’ (hiding) of any grouped mixer channels and sequencer tracks which again would simplify things while also adding functionality.
There ARE things that could be done that would accomplish BOTH goals, but it would take a re-write of the app once again and I’m not sure folks are ready for that one step back to achieve two steps forward (again)… ;)
Selig Audio, LLC

JorgeM
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Post 23 Jun 2022

Creativemind wrote:
22 Jun 2022
(tempo match with half & double speeds, pitch shift, dB Display on volume slider, audio wave display, folder refresh button etc etc), sampling directly into NN-XT, NN-19, Grain, ReDrum, Kong and Europa and Undo History in the RRP
What sort of pitch shift are you after? The Transpose option in the sequencer is pretty good.
maxresdefault2.jpg
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Steedus
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Post 24 Jun 2022

I wish that Transpose option in the sequencer also worked for midi clips. :(

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dan_g
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Post 24 Jun 2022

Steedus wrote:
24 Jun 2022
I wish that Transpose option in the sequencer also worked for midi clips. :(
it does when you select both an audio and a midi clip at the same time. sure its not very convinient but a nice work arround i use all the time.
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dakta
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Post 24 Jun 2022

Confession time - that was me doing that first reaction in the vid, and I wasn't actually looking at the sequencer - I had reasontalk open and spotted another 'what Reasonstudios need to do to the sequencer to secure my ongoing support' thread :)

I used to like the flash-based PR teasers we used to see (remember R2.5 being quite catchy) but ultimately I don't expect to see as much these days, maybe a token effort but the rewards aren't likely there.

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chimp_spanner
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Post 24 Jun 2022

Steedus wrote:
22 Jun 2022
No doubt the introduction of Record with the audio recording, and the SSL mixer among other things, was a momentous step up for Reason (imo).

But if I can be slightly controversial for a moment .. I actually like that Reason's sequencer is more on the basic side.. Sure I'm not a professional. I don't make money from my music, it's purely a hobby. But I also have Logic, and just opening it up, it's like a barrage of options and settings and functions hitting me in the face. No doubt you can achieve alot more using it, but for music creation? It just gets in the way - for me.

btw I love how basic 'social media marketing' was back in the day.
This is exactly how I feel about Cubase. I have a license for 12 and honestly, I never use it. Just opening up the preferences gives me a headache. It's bloated and horrible to look at. And there are so many menus and little dropdowns and a million different ways for things to work. Plus it looks boring as hell these days. Not sure why they went all monochrome. So yeah I feel you. 100% there is a lot of room for improvement in the sequencer but as I've said time and time again, none of it is radical or paradigm shifting. It's just QOL stuff, some of which Selig already articulated. Track visibility options. Folders. Shortcuts. Live, I feel is great in that regard. First time I realised I could press tab to jump to the next track while renaming I was like hey....that's really nice :lol:

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jam-s
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Post 24 Jun 2022

Steedus wrote:
24 Jun 2022
I wish that Transpose option in the sequencer also worked for midi clips. :(
That functionality can be found in the F8 toolbox. (I imagine some people don't know about it and thus think the Reason sequencer is really basic, while it certainly does have some more advanced functionality when using the toolbox.)
If you're in Aachen, come and visit us at the Voidspace. ... Pool's closed due to corona.

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Creativemind
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Post 24 Jun 2022

Jac459 wrote:
22 Jun 2022
Creativemind wrote:
22 Jun 2022
I can't believe for me, how good the Reaper / Reason Rack Plug-In combo is, brilliant. I think there's too many feature's missing to pull me back into using Reason as a stand-alone product again (at least 40 feature's)...
I feel I have a severe FOMO but could you please list a few of these missing features? The reason I am asking this is that the only features I have seen missing in the DAW are shortcuts that I feel counterproductive for my own workflow (example: doing side-chaining through right clicking instead of properly wiring the devices, for me I like the manual way because it gives me all the tweaking ideas to hack the process and find new sounds).

Not talking about m1 support and VST3 that are way too discussed already.
* Track Folders
* Track Templates
* Track Hiding
* Time Markers
* Hide Automation Lanes
* Linked Clips and Automation
* Midi Chase
* Joining Midi Notes
* Note Displays
* Quantize Note Ends
* Remove Note Overlaps
* Slice By Grid
* Notation View
* Multiple Midi Editor Views In One Midi Editor
* Remove Note Overlaps
* Audio Wave Display In Media Browser which you can highlight with the mouse to loop
* Pitch Shift Audio in Media Browser
* Tempo Match with Half Speed / Double Speed In Media Browser
* Play Through Track In Media Browser
* Reverse Auditioning In Media Browser
* Dots Placed Next To Previously Auditioned Samples In Media Browser (so you know which ones you've already auditioned)
* Assign Your Own Keyboard Shortcuts
* Unlimited Sends
* Moving An Item Down Where There Is No Track Automatically Creates a Track For It and Places It In
* Volume and Panning Controls on Arranger (Sequencer) Tracks
* Video Support
* Drag Audio and Midi Items (clips) Out of Reaper to anywhere on your comp
* Autosave
* Slice By Edit Cursor
* Transient Sensitivity
* Punch In / Out
* Slice By Edit Cursor
* Midi VST Support
* VST 3 Support
* Scan VST Folder From Within Reaper
* Fully Customisable
* Go Back To 50 Projects In Project History (Instead of a (Still After Years) a Pathetic 8)
* Track and Mixer Notes
* Tab To Label Next Track
* Full Colour Pallet

There's 46 and that's probably 3/4's of the features it has Reason doesn't.
:reason:

Reason Studio's 11.3 / Cockos Reaper 6.61 / Cakewalk By Bandlab / Orion 8.6
http://soundcloud.com/creativemind75/iv ... soul-mix-3

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Creativemind
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Post 24 Jun 2022

JorgeM wrote:
23 Jun 2022
Creativemind wrote:
22 Jun 2022
(tempo match with half & double speeds, pitch shift, dB Display on volume slider, audio wave display, folder refresh button etc etc), sampling directly into NN-XT, NN-19, Grain, ReDrum, Kong and Europa and Undo History in the RRP
What sort of pitch shift are you after? The Transpose option in the sequencer is pretty good.

maxresdefault2.jpg
I was talking about samples in the media browser, not audio in the sequencer but yeah that is darn good in your pic.
:reason:

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moofi
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Post 25 Jun 2022

A lot can aswell be done via keyboard shortcuts or keybinds. Functionality that wouldn´t even be visible unless you deepdive into the menu bar, so it doesn´t get in the way while still being available. Speeds up workflow immensely, just by allowing individual binds.
Approaches like I know them from especially 3D software where I can create individual per mode custom quad+ overlay rightclick menues is pretty handy aswell.
selig wrote:
23 Jun 2022
Steedus wrote:
22 Jun 2022
No doubt the introduction of Record with the audio recording, and the SSL mixer among other things, was a momentous step up for Reason (imo).

But if I can be slightly controversial for a moment .. I actually like that Reason's sequencer is more on the basic side.. Sure I'm not a professional. I don't make money from my music, it's purely a hobby. But I also have Logic, and just opening it up, it's like a barrage of options and settings and functions hitting me in the face. No doubt you can achieve alot more using it, but for music creation? It just gets in the way - for me.
They are not mutually exclusive. You can add functionality BY simplifying the interface. For example, by simplifying the sequencer so that every control for an instrument is folded into ONE track (no fader automation on it’s own track, MIDI on it’s own track, etc) which would allow things like overlaying automation curves on the audio waveform etc. This would both simplify the interface while also adding functionality, as but one example. You could similarly combine audio/instruments in the Rack View. You could automatically sync the order of tracks/channels so you’re spending less time searching for the thing you were just looking at in the another window. You could allow simple ‘folding’ (hiding) of any grouped mixer channels and sequencer tracks which again would simplify things while also adding functionality.
There ARE things that could be done that would accomplish BOTH goals, but it would take a re-write of the app once again and I’m not sure folks are ready for that one step back to achieve two steps forward (again)… ;)

Jac459
Posts: 214
Joined: 29 Mar 2022
Location: Singapore

Post 25 Jun 2022

Creativemind wrote:
24 Jun 2022
Jac459 wrote:
22 Jun 2022


I feel I have a severe FOMO but could you please list a few of these missing features? The reason I am asking this is that the only features I have seen missing in the DAW are shortcuts that I feel counterproductive for my own workflow (example: doing side-chaining through right clicking instead of properly wiring the devices, for me I like the manual way because it gives me all the tweaking ideas to hack the process and find new sounds).

Not talking about m1 support and VST3 that are way too discussed already.
* Track Folders
* Track Templates
* Track Hiding
* Time Markers
* Hide Automation Lanes
* Linked Clips and Automation
* Midi Chase
* Joining Midi Notes
* Note Displays
* Quantize Note Ends
* Remove Note Overlaps
* Slice By Grid
* Notation View
* Multiple Midi Editor Views In One Midi Editor
* Remove Note Overlaps
* Audio Wave Display In Media Browser which you can highlight with the mouse to loop
* Pitch Shift Audio in Media Browser
* Tempo Match with Half Speed / Double Speed In Media Browser
* Play Through Track In Media Browser
* Reverse Auditioning In Media Browser
* Dots Placed Next To Previously Auditioned Samples In Media Browser (so you know which ones you've already auditioned)
* Assign Your Own Keyboard Shortcuts
* Unlimited Sends
* Moving An Item Down Where There Is No Track Automatically Creates a Track For It and Places It In
* Volume and Panning Controls on Arranger (Sequencer) Tracks
* Video Support
* Drag Audio and Midi Items (clips) Out of Reaper to anywhere on your comp
* Autosave
* Slice By Edit Cursor
* Transient Sensitivity
* Punch In / Out
* Slice By Edit Cursor
* Midi VST Support
* VST 3 Support
* Scan VST Folder From Within Reaper
* Fully Customisable
* Go Back To 50 Projects In Project History (Instead of a (Still After Years) a Pathetic 8)
* Track and Mixer Notes
* Tab To Label Next Track
* Full Colour Pallet

There's 46 and that's probably 3/4's of the features it has Reason doesn't.
Thanks mate. I see here most of the features are either actually present (or under another form) or not useful for me. You helped me fix my FOMO !

djsmex
Posts: 225
Joined: 23 Aug 2016

Post 25 Jun 2022

For me its accessibility and I believe their Remote system is the answer. Just by extending the Remote items to cover the browser, sequencer, toolbar etc it allows for third party software to use speech giving blind users access.
Reaper with third party scripts can give speech feedback, Native Instruments, Komplete Kontrol has speech feedback and ProTools and Logic on Mac can give speech feedback.
The HD zoom may help some people with low vision but for me speech feedback is so much more helpful.

kitekrazy
Posts: 972
Joined: 19 Jan 2015

Post 25 Jun 2022

chimp_spanner wrote:
24 Jun 2022
Steedus wrote:
22 Jun 2022
No doubt the introduction of Record with the audio recording, and the SSL mixer among other things, was a momentous step up for Reason (imo).

But if I can be slightly controversial for a moment .. I actually like that Reason's sequencer is more on the basic side.. Sure I'm not a professional. I don't make money from my music, it's purely a hobby. But I also have Logic, and just opening it up, it's like a barrage of options and settings and functions hitting me in the face. No doubt you can achieve alot more using it, but for music creation? It just gets in the way - for me.

btw I love how basic 'social media marketing' was back in the day.
This is exactly how I feel about Cubase. I have a license for 12 and honestly, I never use it. Just opening up the preferences gives me a headache. It's bloated and horrible to look at. And there are so many menus and little dropdowns and a million different ways for things to work. Plus it looks boring as hell these days. Not sure why they went all monochrome. So yeah I feel you. 100% there is a lot of room for improvement in the sequencer but as I've said time and time again, none of it is radical or paradigm shifting. It's just QOL stuff, some of which Selig already articulated. Track visibility options. Folders. Shortcuts. Live, I feel is great in that regard. First time I realised I could press tab to jump to the next track while renaming I was like hey....that's really nice :lol:
Cubase has it's annoyances. If I click on Reason it's there. The other machine I click my login which auto fills and it's right there. You have to click twice to exit Cubase. I'm not enamored with it yet. I bought Cubase 12 because they got rid of their old licensing.

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Creativemind
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Location: Stoke-On-Trent, England, UK

Post 25 Jun 2022

Jac459 wrote:
25 Jun 2022
Creativemind wrote:
24 Jun 2022


* Track Folders
* Track Templates
* Track Hiding
* Time Markers
* Hide Automation Lanes
* Linked Clips and Automation
* Midi Chase
* Joining Midi Notes
* Note Displays
* Quantize Note Ends
* Remove Note Overlaps
* Slice By Grid
* Notation View
* Multiple Midi Editor Views In One Midi Editor
* Remove Note Overlaps
* Audio Wave Display In Media Browser which you can highlight with the mouse to loop
* Pitch Shift Audio in Media Browser
* Tempo Match with Half Speed / Double Speed In Media Browser
* Play Through Track In Media Browser
* Reverse Auditioning In Media Browser
* Dots Placed Next To Previously Auditioned Samples In Media Browser (so you know which ones you've already auditioned)
* Assign Your Own Keyboard Shortcuts
* Unlimited Sends
* Moving An Item Down Where There Is No Track Automatically Creates a Track For It and Places It In
* Volume and Panning Controls on Arranger (Sequencer) Tracks
* Video Support
* Drag Audio and Midi Items (clips) Out of Reaper to anywhere on your comp
* Autosave
* Slice By Edit Cursor
* Transient Sensitivity
* Punch In / Out
* Slice By Edit Cursor
* Midi VST Support
* VST 3 Support
* Scan VST Folder From Within Reaper
* Fully Customisable
* Go Back To 50 Projects In Project History (Instead of a (Still After Years) a Pathetic 8)
* Track and Mixer Notes
* Tab To Label Next Track
* Full Colour Pallet

There's 46 and that's probably 3/4's of the features it has Reason doesn't.
Thanks mate. I see here most of the features are either actually present (or under another form) or not useful for me. You helped me fix my FOMO !
Not one of those is actually present currently in Reason. They're all very useful..Never needed to go find a project you didn't know the name of (as it might not have a working title yet) in your project history that was more than 8 projects from the one you last saved?

There is blocks which is similar to linked clips but definitely different and you can use clips to kind of do a make-shift time markers thing but a mickey mouse way of doing it.
:reason:

Reason Studio's 11.3 / Cockos Reaper 6.61 / Cakewalk By Bandlab / Orion 8.6
http://soundcloud.com/creativemind75/iv ... soul-mix-3

Jac459
Posts: 214
Joined: 29 Mar 2022
Location: Singapore

Post 25 Jun 2022

Creativemind wrote:
25 Jun 2022
Not one of those is actually present currently in Reason. They're all very useful..Never needed to go find a project you didn't know the name of (as it might not have a working title yet) in your project history that was more than 8 projects from the one you last saved?

There is blocks which is similar to linked clips but definitely different and you can use clips to kind of do a make-shift time markers thing but a mickey mouse way of doing it.
I understand you and don't disagree. But these are 'time saving' features, there is nothing that is related to creativity block. Meaning some creative stuffs I couldn't do.
Maybe the infinite sends but I never had this need.
On the other hand, if we are talking about workflow and milliseconds gained here and there, operations done in 2 clicks instead of 3, for me a hugely massive feature of Reason is 'everything on the same screen'. I don't use VST because of that, I just hate to have to alt-tab every 5 seconds because I play with a synth while drawing an automation. A deal breaker to me.
It could perfectly work in a multi screen setup, but for me it is awful. I really hope the time used to develop the vst3 is because they will try to mimic the RE...

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Creativemind
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Location: Stoke-On-Trent, England, UK

Post 26 Jun 2022

Jac459 wrote:
25 Jun 2022
Creativemind wrote:
25 Jun 2022
Not one of those is actually present currently in Reason. They're all very useful..Never needed to go find a project you didn't know the name of (as it might not have a working title yet) in your project history that was more than 8 projects from the one you last saved?

There is blocks which is similar to linked clips but definitely different and you can use clips to kind of do a make-shift time markers thing but a mickey mouse way of doing it.
I understand you and don't disagree. But these are 'time saving' features, there is nothing that is related to creativity block. Meaning some creative stuffs I couldn't do.
Maybe the infinite sends but I never had this need.
On the other hand, if we are talking about workflow and milliseconds gained here and there, operations done in 2 clicks instead of 3, for me a hugely massive feature of Reason is 'everything on the same screen'. I don't use VST because of that, I just hate to have to alt-tab every 5 seconds because I play with a synth while drawing an automation. A deal breaker to me.
It could perfectly work in a multi screen setup, but for me it is awful. I really hope the time used to develop the vst3 is because they will try to mimic the RE...
So doing things the long way doesn't kill creativty, must have escaped me that one. When I've got a tune in my head and I'm building it up, no midi chase so having to constantly move the Song Position Pointer back so I can hear things correctly is an annoyance, no track folders so on large projects, the screen is a complete mess really confuses things, no volume / panning controls on the tracks in the squencer, so you have to navigate away to an area you're not currently working in to adjust, shortening notes to then lengthen a previous or one after cause of no joining notes, can't slice by song position pointer (very handy on audio, use it quite often in Reaper although it's Edit Cursor it slices by), all save time. Also, the time I wanted to know when an exact transient was in the timeline and there's no time display on transients in Slice Edit, the list goes on, saps your creativity sometimes. Obviously you will say you don't agree but to me, these things matter. They make the experience more elegant and easier to just crack on with the song.
:reason:

Reason Studio's 11.3 / Cockos Reaper 6.61 / Cakewalk By Bandlab / Orion 8.6
http://soundcloud.com/creativemind75/iv ... soul-mix-3

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