IS REASON 12 THE LAST PERPETUAL VERSION

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WOO
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Post 19 Jun 2022

I've been thinking about the massive price drop of reason 12, and just weeks after may madness. The speculation is that, perhaps they need money. Well, I recall when they discounted reason suite a while back, then shortly afterward, they announced that they were discontinuing suite. So I'm thinking and I hope I'm wrong, that they may announce very soon that their discontinuing the sale of perpetual licenses with 12 being the last. I'm aware of what the ceo promised about perpetual licenses but things
can change quickly and they are majority owned by verdane so there's that. So what do you folks out there think.
"A man is like a rabbit, you catch him by the ears" La Rochefoucauld

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mimidancer
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Post 20 Jun 2022

WOO wrote:
19 Jun 2022
I've been thinking about the massive price drop of reason 12, and just weeks after may madness. The speculation is that, perhaps they need money. Well, I recall when they discounted reason suite a while back, then shortly afterward, they announced that they were discontinuing suite. So I'm thinking and I hope I'm wrong, that they may announce very soon that their discontinuing the sale of perpetual licenses with 12 being the last. I'm aware of what the ceo promised about perpetual licenses but things
can change quickly and they are majority owned by verdane so there's that. So what do you folks out there think.
I think most software companies will make the switch to subscription-based services in the future. Reason remains my favorite DAW. Its quirk makes it the most creative platform. I friggin love working with blocks. Reminds me of my old-school ESQ 1 sequencer. fast and flexible. I am surprised they have mt made change blocks with a push controller a thing. I don't have one but I bet the DJ-type producers would love that. What were we taking about?

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orthodox
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Post 20 Jun 2022

I feel like I've heard that before, on this forum. Nothing has changed since. Maybe find that old thread and continue from there?

TritoneAddiction
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Post 20 Jun 2022

Yes we've heard this before. But I hope the mods don't close the thread just because some are tired of hearing about it. People are here to talk. Let people talk, even if it gets a little repetitive. Apparently it's that important of an issue.

I think we'll see a R13, possibly even a R14. But after that I think we're f***ed. I know some people are more optimistic.
In the latest roadmap update the ceo told us with such optimism about how "we expect Reason+ to be the most popular way to use Reason across all versions sometime later this year."
Like that was a good thing. :(
For me that was the saddest piece of Reason news I've ever heard.
I've heard the "it's just were things are going" argument many times. But personally I can't stand that perspective. Makes me feel like we've already given up. I'm more of a "If I don't like something, I'm simply not gonna be part of it" person. That doesn't always work obviously. But to the extent that it's doable, that's the way I roll.

Jac459
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Post 20 Jun 2022

TritoneAddiction wrote:
20 Jun 2022
I'm more of a "If I don't like something, I'm simply not gonna be part of it" person. That doesn't always work obviously. But to the extent that it's doable, that's the way I roll.
Everybody is scared with what happenned to protools...

On my side I strongly agree with you. I am old minded. I need to own the stuff I am working on. Having to switch would be a deal breaker and I would go somewhere else...

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Loque
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Post 20 Jun 2022

Yes, it is the last perpetual version 12. Version 13 will be a new one.
Reason12, Win10

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joeyluck
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Post 20 Jun 2022

Wasn't Reason 11 supposed to be the last one? 🤔 Clearly this speculation will be perpetual 😂

It's a part of the forum greatest hits. Remastered with bonus content.

Before they had a subscription model, the doomsayer speculation was just about the company going under. At least people now can mix it up a bit.

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orthodox
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Post 20 Jun 2022

CAPS in the title surely adds credibility to the message.

Popey
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Post 20 Jun 2022

Personally I don't think the threat of perpetual licence extinction is here yet. When the ceo said "we expect Reason+ to be the most popular way to use Reason across all versions sometime later this year." I take that as perpetual staying as if it goes the most popular/all versions comment does not make sense if r+ becomes the only option.

Interestingly I received an email from soundwide recently stating they are not getting rid of perpetual licences for their products so assume companies are aware of people's thoughts about subs. I am similar to Tritone Addiction though in that if I don't like something I will not engage with it and subs for a DAW I certainly do not like.

Heater
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Post 20 Jun 2022

It wouldn't surprise me if Reason went subs only at some point.

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Jagwah
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Post 20 Jun 2022

I still think subscription models are a CEOs dream and do not favour the consumer in comparison to older models. Apparently I'm wrong but we need some more time to find out.
TritoneAddiction wrote:
20 Jun 2022
Yes we've heard this before. But I hope the mods don't close the thread just because some are tired of hearing about it. People are here to talk. Let people talk, even if it gets a little repetitive.
100%.
:reason: It's all about the plo, yo.

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Neo
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Post 20 Jun 2022

NO,
THAT SAID SUBSCRIPTIONS ARE DEFINITELY A CONCERNING TREND.
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motuscott
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Post 20 Jun 2022

Neo wrote:
20 Jun 2022
NO,
THAT SAID SUBSCRIPTIONS ARE DEFINITELY A CONCERNING TREND.
SO SAYS YOU
The Now Sound of MIDI Thru 🧂

Tinnitus
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Post 20 Jun 2022

It was my initial concern, but now I really think it's highly unlikely that this will happen as it will kill the RE market ( what percentage of REs are sold to r12+ renters? Unlikely to buy add ons locked to the rented software) and people will just jump ship to another platform (especially if competitors offer cross grade deals) .

However if it did. I guess users would make do with a hybrid plugin model until their music needs pivot away from Reason entirely, as people don't like to be taken advantage of and have long memories/vote with their feet.

djsmex
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Post 20 Jun 2022

RS are in the business to make money, so if a large portion of their user base are not using R+ but instead buy licensed versions, it would make no sense to drop licensed versions for subs only.
Personally I tried R+ but now have cancelled it. This I suspect is the same for many users and may be behind the recent sale for R12 license, to see the level of take up.

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bxbrkrz
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Post 20 Jun 2022

No.
757365206c6f67696320746f207365656b20616e73776572732075736520726561736f6e20746f2066696e6420776973646f6d

PhillipOrdonez
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Post 20 Jun 2022

Highly unlikely. If it does happen, then I don't think I would subscribe. Not because the product is bad, but on principle I don't do subscriptions for software, unless they do it rent to own. 🤷‍♂️

Obviously this is not going to happen. I don't think they are crazy enough to entirely cut out potential revenue from customers such as myself and others like me.
The latest release:

kitekrazy
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Post 20 Jun 2022

The sub pandemic is annoying. Few people are aware that most developers have offed them but they are not pushed heavily.

If you are on a Windows system and the whole world went sub there's plenty of older software that still works.

MuttReason
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Post 20 Jun 2022

It would make zero sense commercially or financially to turn off the option of a perpetual licensed version. It costs nothing to run the option of a purchased software licence alongside a subscription option. Underneath the hood it is the same core software under either perpetual or subscription options and the billing engine for a software licence will be the same as the billing engine for a monthly/annual sub.

So if for example 40% of users want a perpetual licence and 60% want a subscription option, how exactly does the company make more money by pissing off then losing 40% of its customer base when there is literally no cost saving achieved through doing so?

The same logic applies even if the split is 20% perpetual/80% subscription. Again, why would any business choose to lose the revenue from 20% of its customers when there is no obvious cost saving from doing so?

I mean maybe if the ratio reaches 5% perpetual/95% sub then the economics would change but hey by that point the argument wouldn’t be so relevant anyway.

BTW I say this as someone who really doesn’t like the SaaS model for creative tools… but I also understand why so many companies are going this way. Most music software companies are really small businesses, and in a small business, cashflow is everything. Subs provide predictable revenue. Big bang launches of a new version every 2-3 years do not provide predictable revenue. But - as I say - there is no financial rationale that would support killing off perpetual licences as long as enough people want them (and if this board is any guide, a lot of people still want them).

Grimlucky
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Post 20 Jun 2022

The next RS model will be to buy a perpetual license then subscribe to use it, best of both worlds 😁

Propellerhands
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Post 20 Jun 2022

I was ok with Reason 4.0.1 for almost 10 years, I will be ok with Reason 12 for 10 more years even more. Not gonna upgrade to another version even if they did R13, 14 or 16. But the current trend is that subscription services are the future and all the static licenses will phase out into oblivion. How long until that? Nobody knows, could be 5 could be 15 years, but that's the future. One has to be absolutely naive and unaware of what's happening around the world to think otherwise.

We have 100% certain ICE ban incoming in near future, we have current Netflix and music susbsription services with global adoptions. Nobody rents VHS anymore, very few people still buy CDs, let alone vinyls. Everything digital and subscription based is the future. Even cars themselves gonna be subscription only.

Only new generations, perhaps people born after 2000 will just adapt, but older generations keep using what they using and will ignore this technological trend and try to work around it.

On a bright side, and in my opinion, Reason Studio won't make Reason subscription service until other major DAWs do it first and test the waters. So as long as you can buy Ableton for instance, you'll be fine. I doubt they will go full Apple way and try to implement every such "nonsense" first (removing stuff and cripling your smartfone on purpose, planned obsolescence). Reason is already a niche product and it would kill their sales. But then again, nowadays corporations constantly alienate their userbase/customers. Just look around at what happened with Disney or Netflix and that's just few examples out of hundreds. So I could be wrong on that.

So for all that matters, I do not care personally, I got all my needs covered with Reason version 12 now. If I wanted to do something that can not be done in this particular DAW I would just buy (or god forbid, torrent) some other DAW.
Grimlucky wrote:
20 Jun 2022
The next RS model will be to buy a perpetual license then subscribe to use it, best of both worlds 😁
Don't give them ideas! :lol:

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EnochLight
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Post 20 Jun 2022

Propellerhands wrote:
20 Jun 2022
We have 100% certain ICE ban incoming in near future
Not to digress, but this is absolutely *NOT* going to happen in the near future where I'm at. In fact, the vast majority of the world that actually buys cars will likely be ICE for the near future, and possibly longer.

But I get the point you were attempting to make. :lol:
WOO wrote:
19 Jun 2022
IS REASON 12 THE LAST PERPETUAL VERSION
NO.
Win 10 | Ableton Live 11 Suite |  Reason 12 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, MX1, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD

Jac459
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Post 20 Jun 2022

Propellerhands wrote:
20 Jun 2022
One has to be absolutely naive and unaware of what's happening around the world to think otherwise.
Hello Propellerhands, your post is well written and your arguments rock-solids but... I 100% disagree with you 😂😂.

The main reason for that is a phylosophical principle : "One can not predict the future by just extrapolating the present"...

Which is exactly what you are doing... To the max.

Now that I thrown this sentence at you, I feel I need a bit more arguments 😊😊.

First, we need to observe the nature of the companies: the companies relentlessly offering subscriptions are the one providing a continuous service. Examples you gave are Spotify or netflix, but you could have given your network or electricity provider. They have in common a lot of opex (operational expanditure) vs (à bit) less capex (capital expanditure). Netflix and Spotify are renting themselves through copyright or royalties what they distribute to you. So it is normal for them to bill in a recurring way. Doing otherwise would be impossible.

Then you have the examples of the small software companies like roon or plex. They do also offer a software and promote mutch more subscriptions (they still propose lifetime sub but very expansive). Here again if you look at their software there is a big part which is service behind it.

Then you have the mass. The mass of software providers propose both. Take the gaming industry. Biggest software industry by far (i guess), very mature, and still offer both. Why? Because they are smart enough to understand that there are different kind of customers and prefere to earn a max of money than cutting a part..

Then you have the example of the companies feeling (rightly or not) that they have trapped customers. The best example is Adobe, they propose only monthly when it doesn't make sense (capex/opex wise) and don't give a shit. It is normal they own the market (but doing so they allowed a competition to appear, so history may not remember that as a smart move). Same for avid protocols, they own the studio market. Same for apple arcade, apple users are trapped and use not to have choice.


With this in mind, I am really not sure all company will jump to sub when there is obviously clients to loose there. It is just not rational.

I am not saying I know the future better than you, I am saying recognising that the outcome is more than uncertain is not being naive... On the contrary.

In the case of reason I think going to sub is very unlikely. Especially with the fierce competition in which they are loosing ground......... But I am not sure.... What I am sure of is there will always be a DAW looking at the non-sub market. I will always follow this one.

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Neo
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Post 21 Jun 2022

motuscott wrote:
20 Jun 2022
Neo wrote:
20 Jun 2022
NO,
THAT SAID SUBSCRIPTIONS ARE DEFINITELY A CONCERNING TREND.
SO SAYS YOU
lol
:reason: :re: :ignition: Atari 1040ST | R11 Suite 🡭 R12 | i7 | RME

Propellerhands
Posts: 76
Joined: 11 Apr 2020

Post 21 Jun 2022

Jac459 wrote:
20 Jun 2022
Propellerhands wrote:
20 Jun 2022
One has to be absolutely naive and unaware of what's happening around the world to think otherwise.
Hello Propellerhands, your post is well written and your arguments rock-solids but... I 100% disagree with you 😂😂.

.....
Never said I was certain about the future. One thing I am certain about is that future is never certain. With one exception about ICE ban on cars (I was baffled by it but now accept it as inevitability):

https://www.forbes.com/sites/neilwinton ... entalists/

Going back on topic, I am also a bit skeptical Reason Studio will make their software sub only. It won't happen as long as their competitors aren't implementing it (especially Ableton). So far so good. But I see patterns and trends in a world (one of the reasons I create music at all, I like patterns) and so general trend is to make everything subscription only in the long run.
When I talk about near future I mean 15 to 50 years, not 1 or 5 years. Everything is going to be digitized even more than it is now. So we can agree to disagree, I am not here to prove my point or convince but to state my opinion, that's all.

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