Latest Roadmap (June 3 2022)

This forum is for discussing Reason. Questions, answers, ideas, and opinions... all apply.
Stamatz
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Post 08 Jun 2022

TritoneAddiction wrote:
08 Jun 2022
"Reason+ continue growing quickly and is now the most popular way to use Reason 12. In fact, we expect Reason+ to be the most popular way to use Reason across all versions sometime later this year! "

This worries me. I can't help but think that in a couple of years they'll remove the option to buy a perpetual license. The fact that they haven't shared their long term plan on the subject doesn't exactly put me at ease. Imo they've been pretty vague. Yes "we can buy R12" but what happens after that? Will there be a R13 or R14? That's what I want to know.
I wonder if they had released R12 without all the problems and it didn't have such a steep price increase, would their numbers look different? Perhaps more in favor of perpetual licences?
For me the day they make it subscription only will be the day that I stop supporting them. I will then stay on whatever version I'm on and work with that for as long as I can. But that's it.
I have a hard time believng this as with subsribtions you own nothing! I can't believe users are more likely to opt for a subscription when at the end of the day or when the subsciption expires they lose all their work and own absolutely nothing. Doesn't make any sense to me.
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avasopht
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Post 08 Jun 2022

TritoneAddiction wrote:
08 Jun 2022
For me the day they make it subscription only will be the day that I stop supporting them. I will then stay on whatever version I'm on and work with that for as long as I can. But that's it.
And that is why they're unlikely to go subscription only.

It doesn't matter how greedy a company is, they're not dumb. Software subscriptions have existed for decades now. It's nothing new.
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avasopht
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Post 08 Jun 2022

Heater wrote:
08 Jun 2022
It's amazing that Apple can spin up a new update to silicon faster than the props update software. Frankly it's unbelievable.
I'm not quite following?

Reason has seen many updates since the M1 came out in November 2020.

Most notably it saw a complete overhaul of the GUI system and now runs on the GPU with high-DPI rendering that also takes OS resolution scaling into account. There's Mimic. A vocoder. Combinator 2. Algoritm. Friktion. And lots of other stoof.

And the M1 is just a standard increment - the same sort of increment you would expect after 2 years. It's basically the same processor but manufactured with the 2nd gen 5nm fabrication process, has some more GPU cores, now runs on DDR5 instead of DDR4, and has a 40% performance increase for the "Neural Processor" (which might be just down to the change to DDR5 ... or it could be a microcode optimisation or a switch to a faster mode now they've been able to verify its stability).

No need to over dramatize it.
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QVprod
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Post 08 Jun 2022

Billy+ wrote:
08 Jun 2022
QVprod wrote:
08 Jun 2022
I think quite a few people would love something in the Captain Chords vein
I don't know about something in the captain chords vein

I would prefer getting vst midi support for the actual captain chords or scaler or any number of other much more reasonable priced vst based midi devices currently available for DAW's way before yet another over priced player device.

Scaler at £50 blows all the combined RS players out of the water and even though captain bundle is more expensive it's still better than and more cost effective than players.

Given the choice I prefer vst midi devices.
For those who are in the RE only camp... I'm sure you know what I mean. I'm curious as someone else I think mentioned if the VST midi thing will be "fixed" with VST3. It'd be pretty disingenuous if they omit it IMHO.

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Billy+
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Post 08 Jun 2022

QVprod wrote:
08 Jun 2022
For those who are in the RE only camp... I'm sure you know what I mean. I'm curious as someone else I think mentioned if the VST midi thing will be "fixed" with VST3. It'd be pretty disingenuous if they omit it IMHO.
I don't think the RE only camp will ever be able to function in the same vein as vst midi devices as the RE SDK doesn't allow the devices to communicate with each other.

As for midi routing being included im not holding my breath as there's been plenty of opportunity since vst support was added to complete the implementation.

TritoneAddiction
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Post 08 Jun 2022

avasopht wrote:
08 Jun 2022
TritoneAddiction wrote:
08 Jun 2022
For me the day they make it subscription only will be the day that I stop supporting them. I will then stay on whatever version I'm on and work with that for as long as I can. But that's it.
And that is why they're unlikely to go subscription only.

It doesn't matter how greedy a company is, they're not dumb. Software subscriptions have existed for decades now. It's nothing new.
I hope you're right. I really do.
But imo they have made some dumb decisions before, so I won't rule it out. Not too long ago it was like they did everything they could to scare me away as a customer. Pushing Reason+ down my throat 24/7, hiding the shop and minimizing the whole RE world, and knowingly releasing very unfinished buggy software which made me lose a lot of trust in the company. The last one especially really got to me, since it didn't just annoy me, but became more of a moral issue to me. It felt deceitful to me. In a very short time they managed to ruin the positive view a had of the company to a highly negative one. I think they did a lot of decisions based on how much money they could make NOW rather than looking at who they might lose on the way. Luckily they've changed or improved in these areas since then.

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avasopht
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Post 08 Jun 2022

Billy+ wrote:
08 Jun 2022
I don't think the RE only camp will ever be able to function in the same vein as vst midi devices as the RE SDK doesn't allow the devices to communicate with each other.

As for midi routing being included im not holding my breath as there's been plenty of opportunity since vst support was added to complete the implementation.
Given they knew they were going to support VST3, it would be silly of them to have tried to implement everything in the VST2 spec that they would have to completely redo for VST3.

Their VST2 code was from nearly 10 years ago (and it was just a proof of concept at the time). Their VST2 implementation can't give any meaningful indications of what they intend to do with VST3.
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MuttReason
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Post 08 Jun 2022

WaxTrax wrote:
08 Jun 2022
Software subscriptions for major platforms are going to be the new normal eventually. This change is occurring with software as a whole and is not specific to just creative software or any specific industry. In a business context, companies generally prefer opex to capex, and that is part of the overall drive. The tide has turned, there is no going back, and while you can choose to vote with your wallet against subscriptions, it will be futile eventually if you want to work with the latest software (of any major software vendor).

I am not arguing for or against subscriptions, but this will be the reality soon for most major commercial software.
Yes - agreed. I REALLY don't like subscription models for creative software but with every month that passes, I think the ship has sailed and this is where many companies are going. All businesses worry about cashflow and especially so right now with rapidly increasing inflation and a potential global recession coming. Software launches every 2-3 years are 'lumpy' in cashflow terms and pretty high-risk... if the launched product isn't up to scratch, the revenues won't be in line with projections and the company is in serious trouble. The subscription model gives companies much more certainty that they can pay the developers' wages at the end of the month, and keep doing so in the future as long as they don't screw up somehow.

It's not a bombproof model (look at what's happening to Netflix... lost +70% of its market capitalisation in only a few months) but I can see that for a small business like RS, Reason+ is a better bet for long-term survival than hoping that each new version of Reason every few years is a bestseller. I get that it also means subscribers are paying the company to fix the bugs in a flawed product (R12 was a hot mess at launch, for sure). And subscribers are also captives... if the company decides to push up the subscription price by inflation + X every year, there's not much a subscriber can do except pay up or walk away and lose access (obviously this excludes the option of buying a "perpetual" licence, which I think RS would retain... although many other subs-based companies would not do so).

But the alternative - wholly relying on the big bang launch of a product that doesn't sell well and doesn't cover several years' worth of sunk costs - could take down the business for good. And yeah, growing Reason+ also means the venture capital crowd get to fill in their spreadsheets and work towards their 'flip and exit' payout too. Pretty grating but that's just the way it rolls. So be it. After 20+ years of using Reason, I'd much rather the company kept going than not. Also, the fact that RS are starting to throw in some good new devices (love the Vocoder) into the mix makes the financial logic work more in favour of Reason+ instead of licence/upgrade and buying each new RE.

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Billy+
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Post 08 Jun 2022

avasopht wrote:
08 Jun 2022
Billy+ wrote:
08 Jun 2022
I don't think the RE only camp will ever be able to function in the same vein as vst midi devices as the RE SDK doesn't allow the devices to communicate with each other.

As for midi routing being included im not holding my breath as there's been plenty of opportunity since vst support was added to complete the implementation.
Given they knew they were going to support VST3, it would be silly of them to have tried to implement everything in the VST2 spec that they would have to completely redo for VST3.

Their VST2 code was from nearly 10 years ago (and it was just a proof of concept at the time). Their VST2 implementation can't give any meaningful indications of what they intend to do with VST3.
Maybe not

but version 9.5 introduced vst support and since then many updates have been released and many years have passed without any movement.

Maybe if they had invested the time in development then they wouldn't be so behind now,

let's not sugar coat things vst3 is still a long way off according to the latest announcement (6-7 months) and a long way from the initial roadmap release date.

I hope I'm wrong and I hope that they get it working just like it should but it's not something I would put money on.

WaxTrax
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Joined: 16 Feb 2021

Post 08 Jun 2022

Just curious, for those who can't live without VST3 support, what kinds of issues are you having using a bridge plugin like Kushview Element or Blue Cat PatchWork?

I know of course native VST3 support is ideal, and I am not talking about full MIDI support either, but rather for support identical to the current VST2 implementation in Reason, but using the bridge to access VST3-only plugins until proper support is released in Reason.

I was just curious because I have been using PatchWork for a while to open up my possibilities for Reason. But I am a hobbyist, not a professional, so that's why I am curious.

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MrFigg
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Post 08 Jun 2022

WaxTrax wrote:
08 Jun 2022
Just curious, for those who can't live without VST3 support, what kinds of issues are you having using a bridge plugin like Kushview Element or Blue Cat PatchWork?

I know of course native VST3 support is ideal, and I am not talking about full MIDI support either, but rather for support identical to the current VST2 implementation in Reason, but using the bridge to access VST3-only plugins until proper support is released in Reason.

I was just curious because I have been using PatchWork for a while to open up my possibilities for Reason. But I am a hobbyist, not a professional, so that's why I am curious.
Because it’s a pain in the arse.
丰2ॐ

WaxTrax
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Post 08 Jun 2022

MrFigg wrote:
08 Jun 2022
Because it’s a pain in the arse.
:lol: Good enough!

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QVprod
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Post 08 Jun 2022

Billy+ wrote:
08 Jun 2022
avasopht wrote:
08 Jun 2022


Given they knew they were going to support VST3, it would be silly of them to have tried to implement everything in the VST2 spec that they would have to completely redo for VST3.

Their VST2 code was from nearly 10 years ago (and it was just a proof of concept at the time). Their VST2 implementation can't give any meaningful indications of what they intend to do with VST3.
Maybe not

but version 9.5 introduced vst support and since then many updates have been released and many years have passed without any movement.

Maybe if they had invested the time in development then they wouldn't be so behind now,

let's not sugar coat things vst3 is still a long way off according to the latest announcement (6-7 months) and a long way from the initial roadmap release date.

I hope I'm wrong and I hope that they get it working just like it should but it's not something I would put money on.
Meh, keep in mind the RRP has only ever been VST3 and it can function as a midi plugin. They implemented VST 2 at the end of its lifecycle and haven’t done any upgrades to it outside of bug fixes. Of course time will tell, but I wouldn’t compare the 2.

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DaveyG
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Joined: 03 May 2020

Post 08 Jun 2022

There will be some tears if they implement VST3 Midi out but don't add it to VST2, because there are plenty of MIDI plugins that are VST2 only, at least for now.
But I don't expect they will add MIDI out support to VST3 either, because it's a bt of a logistical challenge within the Reason framework unless they can somehow wrap up the VST3 in a player.

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stratatonic
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Location: CANADA

Post 08 Jun 2022

Billy+ wrote:
03 Jun 2022
stratatonic wrote:
03 Jun 2022
See post above. Like I said, nothing specific, but enhancements is plural, so more than one...
Where did you dig that out from?

The only info I've seen has basically said R12 is not getting anything worth buying - definitely not pre price increases let alone post.
workflow enhancements and more.jpeg
https://reasonstudios.com/blog/introducing-reason-plus/
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stratatonic
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Post 08 Jun 2022

arnigretar wrote:
04 Jun 2022
Happy days.
MrFigg wrote:
04 Jun 2022

Nah!!! Bullshit. Not good.
:lol: :lol:

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stratatonic
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Post 08 Jun 2022

Bes wrote:
03 Jun 2022
regarding the workflow improvements, they were probably talking about the update to the search browser
Yeah, I'm sure that was it. :lol: RS has had almost 8 years to update that awesome browser that was introduced in R8. Here's a thread from 5 years ago to recently, on stuff they could have worked on. Check out Creativemind's list near the end as well.
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7503499

Popey
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Post 08 Jun 2022

I really cannot see the end of perpetual licences for the short term future however I do have some concerns about the "worth" of future versions.

With subscription appearing to be rs favoured method of customer I fear we may see less items/changes in Reason upgrades, less free devices in updates etc with more of the new devices being products to buy thus making subs more attractive. Perhaps the idea is people like me will eventually get r+ as getting a new perpetual cost and new devices becomes extortionate in comparison (I would be very happy sticking with r11 for as long as it works before subbing a DAW so rs may have a long wait)

I hope non of this happens but I think it's really quite possible.

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QVprod
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Post 08 Jun 2022

Popey wrote:
08 Jun 2022
I really cannot see the end of perpetual licences for the short term future however I do have some concerns about the "worth" of future versions.

With subscription appearing to be rs favoured method of customer I fear we may see less items/changes in Reason upgrades, less free devices in updates etc with more of the new devices being products to buy thus making subs more attractive. Perhaps the idea is people like me will eventually get r+ as getting a new perpetual cost and new devices becomes extortionate in comparison (I would be very happy sticking with r11 for as long as it works before subbing a DAW so rs may have a long wait)

I hope non of this happens but I think it's really quite possible.
To be fair, most of their devices have already been paid since RE became a thing. As long as they're still selling versions They'll still have to make them attractive to buyers hence Mimic being a R12 device and not a separate RE. So far Pro Tools is the only audio/music software to go subscription only and that's because AVID could care less about the typical user market. There's too much competition for everyone else to try to pull the subscription only thing.

Realistically you can completely ignore R+ as of now and it's not much different than how things were before.

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MarkTarlton
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Location: Santa Rosa, CA

Post 08 Jun 2022

I'm weening myself off of PT because of the new sub approach, I'm using Logic as much as I can, but still more comfortable with bigger projects using PT, especially tracking large sessions and mixing.

Popey
Posts: 1258
Joined: 04 Jul 2018

Post 09 Jun 2022

QVprod wrote:
08 Jun 2022
Popey wrote:
08 Jun 2022
I really cannot see the end of perpetual licences for the short term future however I do have some concerns about the "worth" of future versions.

With subscription appearing to be rs favoured method of customer I fear we may see less items/changes in Reason upgrades, less free devices in updates etc with more of the new devices being products to buy thus making subs more attractive. Perhaps the idea is people like me will eventually get r+ as getting a new perpetual cost and new devices becomes extortionate in comparison (I would be very happy sticking with r11 for as long as it works before subbing a DAW so rs may have a long wait)

I hope non of this happens but I think it's really quite possible.
To be fair, most of their devices have already been paid since RE became a thing. As long as they're still selling versions They'll still have to make them attractive to buyers hence Mimic being a R12 device and not a separate RE. So far Pro Tools is the only audio/music software to go subscription only and that's because AVID could care less about the typical user market. There's too much competition for everyone else to try to pull the subscription only thing.

Realistically you can completely ignore R+ as of now and it's not much different than how things were before.
You are probably right as I am just going off memory and used to love updates when we got multiple devices (eg. Europa and grain, few fx in an upgrade etc). I just fear some of the future releases will have less which could dilute the value. I really hope I am wrong though and agree there has to be some value if they want perpetual to still be a major source of income.

MuttReason
Posts: 75
Joined: 28 Jan 2021

Post 09 Jun 2022

Pretty sure RS will always retain the perpetual licence option. Doing so doesn’t really cost them anything while not doing so would mean losing customers who won’t go down the subscription route. Literally no downside from a business perspective in keeping the perpetual licence option available.

However… much as I don’t like it, it seems equally clear that subscription is the way ahead for many software firms. It’s the only way to ensure predictability of revenue in a very competitive sector where one major stumble (missing a technology cycle, a botched product launch) can put the balance sheet under massive strain and ultimately wipe out the business.

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Eprom
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Joined: 24 Sep 2017

Post 09 Jun 2022

I personally hate subscriptions and will never fall for it, but..

For a company it's a sure way to keep people giving them money for using it EVEN if they don't add new features or fix bugs right away.

Nobody will buy a new version of your software if that version isn't better than the last one they bought, but with a subscription you have them by the b*lls, because you're holding their musical creations hostage. If you don't pay your annual fee, you can't finish/edit your songs (unless you only use instruments from a previous version you owned).
:reason: Reason user since Ver. 1.01(2001) :reason:
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DJMaytag
Posts: 539
Joined: 17 Jun 2015
Location: Madison, WI

Post 09 Jun 2022

Seems like they might be doing OK with developing high quality devices that they can sell on their own and have a steady income stream to those who opt for perpetual licenses. If you factor that in, even with skipping R11, RS got a sale of Algoritm, BV*X, Bassline Generator, & QNG from me in the past couple years.

The only major thing from RS I have not jumped on was PolyStep Sequencer, mostly because of how amazing Robotic Bean’s Sequences is. I don’t count Layers, Umpf, and other ROMpler type things as major devices.

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bxbrkrz
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Post 09 Jun 2022

A subscription model for RE devs exclusively.
Why not?
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