Latest Roadmap (June 3 2022)

This forum is for discussing Reason. Questions, answers, ideas, and opinions... all apply.
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deeplink
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Post 09 Jun 2022

bxbrkrz wrote:
09 Jun 2022
A subscription model for RE devs exclusively.
Why not?
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rcbuse
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Post 09 Jun 2022

deeplink wrote:
09 Jun 2022
Super Reason Dennys Mega Plus +
:lol: :lol:

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Exowildebeest
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Post 09 Jun 2022

MAX :mrgreen:

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bxbrkrz
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Post 09 Jun 2022

deeplink wrote:
09 Jun 2022
bxbrkrz wrote:
09 Jun 2022
A subscription model for RE devs exclusively.
Why not?
Super Reason Dennys Mega Plus +
Super Reason Dennys Mega Plus +
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Re8et
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Post 09 Jun 2022

turn2on wrote:
08 Jun 2022
For me, most important part of M1 support, is optimisation of audio interface work with Reason.
Look at Presonus Quantum 2626. Own Thunderbolt driver, compitable with M1 and intel-macs.
Latency about 0.7ms on intel-mac
Latency about 4.5ms on M1 under Rosetta
Still waiting in future native support of M1 in Reason to get better results for audio interface.
Latency with my Motu and Reason on the M1 is very strange....
Sometime you load an instrument, and it pops everywhere...
Enable all prefs , run at audio card, hyperthread, etc, and it does nothing but pops,
to then magically sort latency out (also using Aggregate audio, multiple Roland Usb drivers, TE op1 drivers, etc, but Main audio is the Motu at 44.1)
and get rid of pops and cracks... Haven't tried to measure the latency, I want to see if I can get under 4.5ms...

One thing for sure, Usb midi has more latency than running the cable straight to the Boutiques from my Nektar usb keyboard...

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QVprod
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Post 09 Jun 2022

Eprom wrote:
09 Jun 2022
I personally hate subscriptions and will never fall for it, but..

For a company it's a sure way to keep people giving them money for using it EVEN if they don't add new features or fix bugs right away.

Nobody will buy a new version of your software if that version isn't better than the last one they bought, but with a subscription you have them by the b*lls, because you're holding their musical creations hostage. If you don't pay your annual fee, you can't finish/edit your songs (unless you only use instruments from a previous version you owned).
On the other hand, the company has a greater responsibility to maintain added value so people don't simply export the stems of their creations, cancel the subscription and move elsewhere. I think people overestimate how hard it is to use another DAW. RS just happens to do this with devices and patches more than core upgrades as of now.

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avasopht
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Post 09 Jun 2022

Eprom wrote:
09 Jun 2022
I personally hate subscriptions and will never fall for it, but..

For a company it's a sure way to keep people giving them money for using it EVEN if they don't add new features or fix bugs right away.

Nobody will buy a new version of your software if that version isn't better than the last one they bought, but with a subscription you have them by the b*lls, because you're holding their musical creations hostage. If you don't pay your annual fee, you can't finish/edit your songs (unless you only use instruments from a previous version you owned).
And yet you see lots of people leaving just for the thought of it happening.

I really don't see any sign that this is nothing but a subscription Armageddon that will never come.

Subscriptions aren't anything new. They've existed for a really long time.

There are places where subscription-only work very well. And there are places where it works very poorly.

Given you only really need a DAW to run plugins that can run in any other DAW (including free ones), not to mention decades of sufficiently capable hardware workstations, and Free/Open Source DAWs.

It's just not going to happen.

It's 100% impossible for them to hold us hostage. And consumer rights wouldn't let them make it impossible for us to use our old licenses to open projects.

It's just not going to happen.

On top of that, the last thing Reason Studios needs is a driving force to send users to competing DAWs.

Even if a company is greedy, they're not dumb or suicidal.
---

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avasopht
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Post 09 Jun 2022

You can't bring in Netflix as an example.

The consumer simply stopped using Blockbuster. They didn't need to force streaming on us. We just don't want to rent or own physical copies anymore.

And then the silly scaremongering that suggests software engineers - who (I can guarantee) only got into this industry because they love developing software and audio effects - are really going to twiddle their thumbs and suddenly refuse to fix stuff and develop features because they have subscriptions.

Not going to happen.

We don't even see that behaviour from companies that have no need whatsoever for our money (Apple with Logic and lots of other stuff). Software developers fix bugs for free. Software developers maintain free and open-source software.

All of these scare scenarios are without any merit.

It also assumes all othermusic makers are dumb. There are just too many options.
---

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teddymcw
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Post 10 Jun 2022

avasopht wrote:
09 Jun 2022

And then the silly scaremongering that suggests software engineers - who (I can guarantee) only got into this industry because they love developing software and audio effects - are really going to twiddle their thumbs and suddenly refuse to fix stuff and develop features because they have subscriptions.
Appreciate your engineering and software biz perspectives. I really wish RS would make a sublime offer to a few more of the software-savvy regular users of this forum here. They can use it full stack from platform to web shop, as all DAW companies can, not haggling RS more just wishing : ) bc it makes business sense too.

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Eprom
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Post 10 Jun 2022

avasopht wrote:
09 Jun 2022
And then the silly scaremongering that suggests software engineers - who (I can guarantee) only got into this industry because they love developing software and audio effects - are really going to twiddle their thumbs and suddenly refuse to fix stuff and develop features because they have subscriptions.
It's not the dev's themselves, it's the company that hires them or simple NOT hires them

When people keep paying for your software anyway (simply because they have to, to keep access to their songs) , why would you as a company throw money towards employees?
You only need ONE social media intern to keep posting vague roadmaps.

Remember, this is not Propellerheads anymore
Last edited by Eprom on 10 Jun 2022, edited 1 time in total.
:reason: Reason user since Ver. 1.01(2001) :reason:
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avasopht
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Post 10 Jun 2022

Eprom wrote:
10 Jun 2022
It's not the dev's themselves, it's the company that hires them or simple NOT hires them

When people keep paying for your software anyway (simply because they have to, to keep access to their songs) , why would you as a company throw money towards employees?
You only need ONE social media intern to keep posting vague roadmaps.

Remember, this is not Propellerheads anymore
Nah. That's ridiculous.

Firstly, no, they still have largely the same programmers. And they recently recruited a brilliant RE dev.

Secondly, your hypothesis is absurd. People aren't so dumb that they'll keep subscribing for years for software that stays the same and are strung along by vague roadmaps. If you're trying to suggest they're doing that now, you're just wrong. This isn't even a debate. We know for a matter of absolute fact that the developers are just as active today as they were 10 years ago.

The hypothesis also has an oversimplified idea of business administration, economics, marketing and buyer behaviour. Maybe you would continue subscribing to life without any updates or bug fixes, but most people's brains don't work like that.

Thirdly, Reason just does not have the right setup to hold music makers hostage. People have quit Reason and sold their license (so they can't access their old songs) just because they didn't like the new features. Access to old tracks isn't that big of a deal. Are you seriously working on your 10 year-old projects all the time in such a way you'd need to be able to open old projects rather than just working from bounced audio?

I've got 20 years of Reason tracks. How could they hold me hostage exactly? It's impossible for them to do that. I've got my old licenses on my ignition key, so even if Reason Studios disappeared completely, I could still open all of my projects. Plus the ones with the most value have been bounced.

If the hardware changed dramatically so that new computers weren't compatible with old versions of Reason, that's fine, I could run them under a virtual machine.

Due to a few missing REs and samples, I actually can't open some of my old projects (many songs between 2005-2007). But still. 20 years. If they can't hold someone like me hostage, how could they hold anyone hostage who's been using it for less time?

So sure, it's not Propellerhead anymore. Doesn't matter. There's no chance something like that could happen (at least not for any reasonable amount of time).

It's far too easy for users to jump ship. Verdane definitely aren't so dumb they don't understand basic common sense and would have the same line of reasoning (otherwise they'd never have become super rich).
---

WaxTrax
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Post 10 Jun 2022

avasopht wrote:
10 Jun 2022
Reason just does not have the right setup to hold music makers hostage.
I enjoyed your well-thought-out response and I agree with most of what you said. The only exception I see is for those with significant investments in REs. For example, I have ~$2500 in RE purchases. The REs cannot be resold or transferred (as far as I know). Even though it was my decision to purchase all those REs knowing I was tied to the main software forever, it's still somewhat of a hostage situation just from the fact that I cannot resell my RE purchases.

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avasopht
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Post 10 Jun 2022

WaxTrax wrote:
10 Jun 2022
I enjoyed your well-thought-out response and I agree with most of what you said. The only exception I see is for those with significant investments in REs. For example, I have ~$2500 in RE purchases. The REs cannot be resold or transferred (as far as I know). Even though it was my decision to purchase all those REs knowing I was tied to the main software forever, it's still somewhat of a hostage situation just from the fact that I cannot resell my RE purchases.
But people still leave Reason even when they've got lots of Rack Extensions.

Most people will just migrate regardless of whether they can resell their Rack Extensions. It's really not that big of a deal. There's Studio One Sphere. There's Roland Cloud. There's EWQL Cloud. And Waves cloud. Really not difficult to migrate to an strong competitive offering. That's why subscription-only is a straight loss for Reason.

Maybe you will never stop using Reason. But you are the exception. Not the rule. Most people aren't that fixed. Most people will question whether it's worth paying $240/yr for the next 30 years just to access some old Rack Extensions they can replace with free VSTs or Reaktor patches.

And even then the argument is not valid because they can always continue using their existing version of Reason. Nothing is forcing you to use the latest version of Reason+. Your REs work perfectly fine on Reason 12, and I'm guessing Reason 11 and Reason 10 as well. How can they hold you hostage if you can still just use your existing permanent license(s)? And no, they absolutely cannot remove them as options. That's 100% impossible to happen.
---

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QVprod
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Post 10 Jun 2022

WaxTrax wrote:
10 Jun 2022
avasopht wrote:
10 Jun 2022
Reason just does not have the right setup to hold music makers hostage.
I enjoyed your well-thought-out response and I agree with most of what you said. The only exception I see is for those with significant investments in REs. For example, I have ~$2500 in RE purchases. The REs cannot be resold or transferred (as far as I know). Even though it was my decision to purchase all those REs knowing I was tied to the main software forever, it's still somewhat of a hostage situation just from the fact that I cannot resell my RE purchases.
Valid point, but there is a kind of way out with buying R11 or 12. Barring massive processor changes like Mac M1, You wouldn’t need another Reason version for the foreseeable future if all you wanted to do is use RE you purchased elsewhere.

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StephenHutchinson
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Post 10 Jun 2022

avasopht wrote:
10 Jun 2022
WaxTrax wrote:
10 Jun 2022

"And even then the argument is not valid because they can always continue using their existing version of Reason. Nothing is forcing you to use the latest version of Reason+. Your REs work perfectly fine on Reason 12, and I'm guessing Reason 11 and Reason 10 as well. How can they hold you hostage if you can still just use your existing permanent license(s)? And no, they absolutely cannot remove them as options. That's 100% impossible to happen."


Unless of course, they go bankrupt, or just decide to shut down their authentication servers, which would leave the majority of users unable to login and thus you have a dead piece of software called Reason. I don't know, but lately I've been getting Reason Studios emails flogging BV-X sound packs and I'm not even on Reason+ anymore.

Then come the 40% off Reason+ subscription emails...


Reason Studios 40 percent off.jpg

When I click to see what's up, it invariably brings up a tracker warning in my browser.

Reason Studios Tracker.jpg

In fact this happens with any email I get from RS. I've sent them an email about it, and have gotten no response...

Can anyone confirm if they are indeed tracking people like this?
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avasopht
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Post 10 Jun 2022

StephenHutchinson wrote:
10 Jun 2022

Unless of course, they go bankrupt, or just decide to shut down their authentication servers, which would leave the majority of users unable to login and thus you have a dead piece of software called Reason.
The question was about holding people to ransom, not whether the Reason Studios servers could ever go down.
StephenHutchinson wrote:
10 Jun 2022
When I click to see what's up, it invariably brings up a tracker warning in my browser.


Reason Studios Tracker.jpg


In fact this happens with any email I get from RS. I've sent them an email about it, and have gotten no response...

Can anyone confirm if they are indeed tracking people like this?
I'm not sure if you know how email marketing has been done for the last 15 years. Yes. Links are tracked.

This allows them to make informed decisions about sending emails and stuff. Sure, they could just count website hits. But this is just how they evaluate the strength of a marketing campaign or the effectiveness of a particular email.

It also allows them to exclude you from emails if you've already clicked a particular link.

Overall, it basically allows them to send us less email, because they can exclude you from communications they know you've either read or responded to by clicking the link.

You can opt out of receiving emails from Reason Studios.
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StephenHutchinson
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Post 10 Jun 2022

avasopht wrote:
10 Jun 2022
StephenHutchinson wrote:
10 Jun 2022
I'm not sure if you know how email marketing has been done for the last 15 years. Yes. Links are tracked.

This allows them to make informed decisions about sending emails and stuff. Sure, they could just count website hits. But this is just how they evaluate the strength of a marketing campaign or the effectiveness of a particular email.

It also allows them to exclude you from emails if you've already clicked a particular link.

Overall, it basically allows them to send us less email, because they can exclude you from communications they know you've either read or responded to by clicking the link.

You can opt out of receiving emails from Reason Studios.
Ah thanks for the heads-up. No I'm not very familiar with present day email marketing and I guess I just wondered how that web site they use for marketing emails ended up on uBlock Origin's list of "You probably shouldn't click this." :D
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DaveyG
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Post 10 Jun 2022

avasopht wrote:
10 Jun 2022

The question was about holding people to ransom, not whether the Reason Studios servers could ever go down.
The second question is easy to answer. Their authentication server has been down several times, usually not for very long but long enough for people to post about it on here. And ISPs have failures that can take days to fix. One day we won't be able to get food out of our fridge or get into our car if the Internet is down. That's progress for ya :thumbup: .

DJMaytag
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Post 10 Jun 2022

DaveyG wrote:
10 Jun 2022
avasopht wrote:
10 Jun 2022

The question was about holding people to ransom, not whether the Reason Studios servers could ever go down.
The second question is easy to answer. Their authentication server has been down several times, usually not for very long but long enough for people to post about it on here. And ISPs have failures that can take days to fix. One day we won't be able to get food out of our fridge or get into our car if the Internet is down. That's progress for ya :thumbup: .
They’re actively working on Offline Mode for Reason, in places where there might not be an internet connection.

Jac459
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Post 12 Jun 2022

One point that has not yet been discussed here about reason studios potential difficulties is the 'big quit'.
The big quit is an absolutely massive phenomena for good developers in the world since 2020-2021 and it is not slowing down.
I can't comment much for North of Europe market but in Asia the turn over and salary increments are crazy.
Salaries have increased in India by 30%, in Singapore 25%. And it goes on...

So the phenomena we have on PS5 or graphical cards (happening for different root causes) , we have it (or we will have it) on any software.

I am happy that developers are paid more, they were not enough paid in the past years. But the negative side of it for us consumers of software is that the prices will increase, there is no magic... Operational expanditures of companies are mechanically increasing, there is no way they absorb 100% of this increase.

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Re8et
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Post 12 Jun 2022

Steedus wrote:
08 Jun 2022


Nothing to be scared about, I was trying to get in front of what is seemed some people we getting worried about. The release of M2 doesn't mean anything for M1 compatibility. If it's M1 compatible, it's M2 (in the most basic sense - they'll always be outliers)

As for Garageband, yes you can use plugins, however they need to be Audio Units (AU) - Apple's plugin format. VST files will not work with Garageband (or Logic for that matter)

https://support.apple.com/en-au/guide/g ... 6a4e4d/mac
The M2 will have the same architecture yes, but.... it is already out the fact that it will also boost Ventura over Monterey Os...
I don't know Apple a lot, but looking at past drivers compatibility issues from the Os perspective, is something that I have read more often than not...
A minor issue but still an issue, considering I just bought the M1 one month ago and the M2 is basically out...

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deigm
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Post 13 Jun 2022

Reason Studios say: "Having fixed the issues in Reason 12..."

This part bothers me.

I've been with reason 12 since launch and was one of the lucky ones I guess because I didn't really see any performance issues. The hi-res graphics were inconsistent but that didn't concern me, because I don't care much if some knobs are blurry, especially when I know they're already working on it.
Performance wise however, everything was fine.

That is until 12.2.6.

Now projects randomly spike on the DSP meter and start to choke/crack/pop.
If I pause it and give it a minute it seems to fix itself, but my PC is pretty high end and this never happened before.

What's worse, is the other day I launched reason as I always do and it seemed to be launching for the first time. It rescanned VST's, reset the theme and default project, and the rest of the settings. I had to go in and reset all my preferences.
Strange but ok.

Worse still though, today on the mixer page, I dragged one channel over to be next to another one, and this resulted in a blue screen of death. Lost all of my work from the last half-hour. No VST's in the project.

I've never had issue with reason before, even with version 12, but 12.2.6 is the buggiest version yet for me.
I wouldn't complain if I knew they were working on it, but now they state that they're done fixing bugs.

Guess it's time to submit a ticket.

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chimp_spanner
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Post 13 Jun 2022

deigm wrote:
13 Jun 2022
Reason Studios say: "Having fixed the issues in Reason 12..."

This part bothers me.

I've been with reason 12 since launch and was one of the lucky ones I guess because I didn't really see any performance issues. The hi-res graphics were inconsistent but that didn't concern me, because I don't care much if some knobs are blurry, especially when I know they're already working on it.
Performance wise however, everything was fine.

That is until 12.2.6.

Now projects randomly spike on the DSP meter and start to choke/crack/pop.
If I pause it and give it a minute it seems to fix itself, but my PC is pretty high end and this never happened before.

What's worse, is the other day I launched reason as I always do and it seemed to be launching for the first time. It rescanned VST's, reset the theme and default project, and the rest of the settings. I had to go in and reset all my preferences.
Strange but ok.

Worse still though, today on the mixer page, I dragged one channel over to be next to another one, and this resulted in a blue screen of death. Lost all of my work from the last half-hour. No VST's in the project.

I've never had issue with reason before, even with version 12, but 12.2.6 is the buggiest version yet for me.
I wouldn't complain if I knew they were working on it, but now they state that they're done fixing bugs.

Guess it's time to submit a ticket.
Damn man that really sucks. I don't say this in a 'well I don't have any problems' kinda way but this has been the most stable it's been for me in ages. Which I think highlights the disparity in performance between systems. I can only imagine how hard it is to code for all possible situations and configurations. Hope they find an answer for you soon!

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deigm
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Post 13 Jun 2022

chimp_spanner wrote:
13 Jun 2022

Damn man that really sucks. I don't say this in a 'well I don't have any problems' kinda way but this has been the most stable it's been for me in ages. Which I think highlights the disparity in performance between systems. I can only imagine how hard it is to code for all possible situations and configurations. Hope they find an answer for you soon!
Yeah I get that. That was me throughout the previous versions of 12. There are so many variables, the complexity must be insane. It's certainly beyond me how they pull off what is essentially audio software magic. So I don't like to complain. Not withstanding the blue screen today, I spent the whole weekend making beats and having a great time. I remain a big fan.

I'm just reacting to that line about having fixed all the bugs already is all. Probably shouldn't have said anything and just started a ticket.

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deigm
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Location: Australia

Post 13 Jun 2022

Unrelated to my previous post but i found it interesting that the opening paragraphs of the roadmap, where they're pledging their commitment to reason, were genre specific:

"We are hard at work in making the Reason Rack the one stop shop for creative electronic music making, which means we continue to add new devices that ensure Reason music makers can be in the absolute forefront."

Emphasis mine.

I found this interesting as personally I feel, with synthesis so well and truly covered in the reason sound library, that the last remaining hole is organic sounds. If reason is a rack for electronic music specifically then maybe that hole is by design, and won't be addressed.
Maybe its a surprise to noone that reason leans this way given it's history and plethora of synthesisers, or maybe electronic music in this context just means music made electronically, rather than a reference to the genre.

Just a thought

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