Reason doesn’t work on modern computers?

[Last Alternative]

So I’m researching a new MacBook laptop to replace my 2015 iMac 🖥

This way I can be mobile to record at my brother’s studio and take it home to mix at my studio. HOWEVER! M1 has been out for a while now and M1 max is out now but.. what is going on with RS? ‍♂️

It appears they can’t seem to keep up with current technology which makes their software useless unless you have an old computer. Correct me if I’m wrong or if anyone knows an ETA when they will catch up to the times I’m honestly at the point of converting my music, selling my license and switching to Logic man good grief ‍♂️

[EnochLight]

So I’m researching a new MacBook laptop to replace my 2015 iMac 🖥

This way I can be mobile to record at my brother’s studio and take it home to mix at my studio. HOWEVER! M1 has been out for a while now and M1 max is out now but.. what is going on with RS? ‍♂️

It appears they can’t seem to keep up with current technology which makes their software useless unless you have an old computer. Correct me if I’m wrong or if anyone knows an ETA when they will catch up to the times I’m honestly at the point of converting my music, selling my license and switching to Logic man good grief ‍♂️

Plenty of Mac users have been using Reason via Rosetta on their M1's - I'm sure you'll be fine. That said, M1 support is supposed to come after VST3 support (in Reason DAW) next, so there's probably not that long of a wait ahead.

[challism]

[Heater]

You have to get used to the fact that the Props are one of the slowest DAW devs on the planet. If you want a DAW with devs that support new architecture in a timely manner then you need to look elsewhere.

[avasopht]

You have to get used to the fact that the Props are one of the slowest DAW devs on the planet. If you want a DAW with devs that support new architecture in a timely manner then you need to look elsewhere.

Come on, let not be childish.

They had a hell of a bug after a major GUI change. Otherwise M1 support would have come earlier. Quite a few DAWs have only started supporting M1 in the last few months, so let's not blow this out of proportion and act like entitled brats

[mimidancer]

So I’m researching a new MacBook laptop to replace my 2015 iMac 🖥

This way I can be mobile to record at my brother’s studio and take it home to mix at my studio. HOWEVER! M1 has been out for a while now and M1 max is out now but.. what is going on with RS? ‍♂️

It appears they can’t seem to keep up with current technology which makes their software useless unless you have an old computer. Correct me if I’m wrong or if anyone knows an ETA when they will catch up to the times I’m honestly at the point of converting my music, selling my license and switching to Logic man good grief ‍♂️

Yeah owning a MAC is a pain in the ass as they abandon their users and force developers to rewrite their software. That is why I left the Cult when the M1 came into being. I do not miss mac at all. Paying more for less is something I refuse to do anymore. I had to give up logic but everything else works better. Fair Trade IMO.

[joeyluck]

Lol why would you leave when the M1 is released? They are innovating and making more powerful computers. I actually know more people finally switching to Macs.

[jlgrimes]

So I’m researching a new MacBook laptop to replace my 2015 iMac 🖥

This way I can be mobile to record at my brother’s studio and take it home to mix at my studio. HOWEVER! M1 has been out for a while now and M1 max is out now but.. what is going on with RS? ‍♂️

It appears they can’t seem to keep up with current technology which makes their software useless unless you have an old computer. Correct me if I’m wrong or if anyone knows an ETA when they will catch up to the times I’m honestly at the point of converting my music, selling my license and switching to Logic man good grief ‍♂️

Yeah owning a MAC is a pain in the ass as they abandon their users and force developers to rewrite their software. That is why I left the Cult when the M1 came into being. I do not miss mac at all. Paying more for less is something I refuse to do anymore. I had to give up logic but everything else works better. Fair Trade IMO.

Reason isn't working too great for me on a modern PC either.

I bought a gaming PC in 2019 a Core i7 8 core.

The plugin works fine (other than the non resizable browser) but the Standalone I'm in Pop and click heaven at 128 buffer size (Focusrite Scarlett gen 3) which runs very smooth on other DAWs I work with (matter of fact I use 64 buffer size in Ableton, Studio One. FL, Reaper without any pops and clicks). Reason seems to be the only DAW having issues at 128 (a buffer size I have been using on various interfaces for almost 20 years with no issues including older versions of Reason which actually drastically outperformed other programs back then but it was a much simpler program then).

I did notice when I was using a Mac a few years ago that Reason wasn't working too great either. I guess now its code isn't as optimized as other DAWs like it used to be.

I'd imagine though the newer versions of Reason would have the same issues or worse on older computers.

[mimidancer]

Lol why would you leave when the M1 is released? They are innovating and making more powerful computers. I actually know more people finally switching to Macs.

well at the time most of my vsts were not M1 compliant. My husband talked me into the switch. I do not think I will ever go back. My PC works great and it is easy to upgrade and half the cost. And I always used macs. In the end, my fully integrated hybrid setup works great on PC. All I had to give up was logic.

[kitekrazy]

If I were a Mac guy I'd just go with Logic. I'd be ditching more than Reason.

[guitfnky]

You have to get used to the fact that the Props are one of the slowest DAW devs on the planet. If you want a DAW with devs that support new architecture in a timely manner then you need to look elsewhere.

Come on, let not be childish.

They had a hell of a bug after a major GUI change. Otherwise M1 support would have come earlier. Quite a few DAWs have only started supporting M1 in the last few months, so let's not blow this out of proportion and act like entitled brats

what about that is incorrect though? it doesn’t seem childish at all—it’s the truth. RS are slow. that’s just reality. it’s not an insult or entitlement. they take a long time to do stuff—even basic “gotta keep up with the times” stuff. and M1 came out what, a year and a half ago? is it really entitled to think they should have figured out how to get their software to run on a year and a half old architecture? it’s not users’ fault RS f*cked up the quality control in order to get 12 out the door.

[stillifegaijin]

Reason works on M1. It actually works better than it did on Intel Macs even through Rosetta. I really hope that proper M1 optimization improves Reason as it's not as smooth as programs that I use that are M1 native but it still works. It very much works on "modern" computers.

[DaveyG]

and switching to Logic

Do it. If Logic ran on Windows or if I had a Mac I'd be on Logic in a flash. You'll be able to use the Reason plugin once they have caught up to the M1 world. The M1 Macs are going to be a game changer. I'm pondering the jump to Mac myself - I just can't quite justify the expense.

[Last Alternative]

No kidding .. it’s $4,000 for the 16” M1 max with Logic that I want. Too much money for a freaking laptop!! But, it all comes down to personal preference and value to you. For example, I was gonna trade in my car for a newer Subaru Forester. Even made a down payment and had it on order but ditched that idea to financially focus on my music instead now that I finally for once in my life set deadlines to finish my album in time for the NM music awards next year. I got a song professionally mastered and am so inspired and confident in my art now! So, for me, I’m saving a ton of money and chasing my dreams for a few thousand dollars instead of going balls deep in debt on a flashy new car. I just prefer Apple because I was PC all my life and had nothing but problems. Macs are just more reliable machines, for me. And I’m excited for Logic! Soon Reason will be in my rear view mirror since they can’t seem to get it right anymore.. it’s a cryin shame because I’ve been using Reason exclusively since 5 and used to love it but - their loss. I might use it as a plug-in sometimes if they ever fix it.

[QVprod]

Reason does work on Rosetta though… so it’s does actually work (pretty well at that) on an M1 though not optimized. It seems the complaints here are missing that point.

There’s quite a few things that aren’t M1 native yet. Slate plugins just went M1 native this week. Waves just became native this month and UAD literally just got it yesterday. Maybe Pro Tools has it now with their new version that just came out?

[tomusurp]

Yea M1 chip is still fairly new. And many top music companies are just now rolling out the update, if not recently. I'm sure Reason will release it at some point soon. I'm still having fun with the BV-X vocoder

[joeyluck]

The Korg M1 plugin didn't receive M1 support until a few days ago.

[Eski]

Reason is working on a Modern Mac but under 'Rosetta' at the moment.

I just updated my system to a M1 Mac Mini (16G Ram) and I'm very impressed with the performance so far. This can only improve more once Reason software fully utilises the M1 chip. I'm hoping Reason Studios will get onto soon but I understand there's no point putting out a half baked product.

[avasopht]

and M1 came out what, a year and a half ago? is it really entitled to think they should have figured out how to get their software to run on a year and a half old architecture? it’s not users’ fault RS f*cked up the quality control in order to get 12 out the door.

As I mentioned, some daws only got m1 support within the last couple of months. Had the bug not happened, it would have come earlier. Basically, the whining about how much time it's taken ignores that it took other daws and lots of other software products ROUGHLY just as long.

Now the misconception about quality control and rushing the product out.

Quality control, first of all wouldn't have made m1 support come out earlier, they'd still have to fix the bug. Second of all, it's a bug that is too rare for quality control (as it's dependant on user environment, and in a nutshell is the exact type of bug that can miss even the best quality control). This is true in theory and practice.

So even with the absolute best QC available and not rushing to get it out the door, you'd still be without M1 support, because it just wouldn't have been released and people would be whining about R12 taking soooo looong, ... "are we there yet?".

And it's not a matter of "figuring out" how to use the M1. It's just a production task that may involve work on adapting their development tools and configuration.

But it's also dependant on the tools and libraries they use having m1 support as well as well as testers and developers having an M1.

Whatever reason it took this long, it also took some other daws roughly the same amount of time. So in this case, the ONLY Reason we're waiting a few extra months is because they've carried out a gargantuan task of overhauling the UI to offer performant, realtime and responsive hi-dpi rendering (... and of raster graphics).

This is why it seems childish to me.

This is a huge undertaking that is vastly more complex than anything you've likely ever done or ever will do, and than you could likely imagine.

It's like when a child whines about their parents taking so long to get back from work. Food just magics itself onto the table. Presents magically appear under the tree each year. They have no idea or appreciation for what it takes to "adult". They just throw tantrums and whine when they don't get what they want when they want it.

[rootwheel]

and M1 came out what, a year and a half ago? is it really entitled to think they should have figured out how to get their software to run on a year and a half old architecture? it’s not users’ fault RS f*cked up the quality control in order to get 12 out the door.

As I mentioned, some daws only got m1 support within the last couple of months. Had the bug not happened, it would have come earlier. Basically, the whining about how much time it's taken ignores that it took other daws and lots of other software products ROUGHLY just as long.

Now the misconception about quality control and rushing the product out.

Quality control, first of all wouldn't have made m1 support come out earlier, they'd still have to fix the bug. Second of all, it's a bug that is too rare for quality control (as it's dependant on user environment, and in a nutshell is the exact type of bug that can miss even the best quality control). This is true in theory and practice.

So even with the absolute best QC available and not rushing to get it out the door, you'd still be without M1 support, because it just wouldn't have been released and people would be whining about R12 taking soooo looong, ... "are we there yet?".

The mess they've made out of Reason 12 does not instil me with a lot of confidence they'll have a solid ARM build ready any time soon - or that they will release it for free for current license holders like they did with Reason 3.0.5. They really had their shit together back in 2006; they even released separate Intel and PPC builds to keep things running as fast as possible for both user bases. It took them only 5 months from the January 2006 release of Intel Macs to put Reason out for x86 OSX in May 2006. We're way past 5 months availability for ARM Macs now. Here's the cool release information about 3.0.5 from back in the heady days of 2006:

Reason 3.0.5 will only be available in the Intel format, and will not run on PowerPC-based Mac computers. This is contrary to Apple's recommendation to developers, which is to ship a combined PPC and Intel-Mac application in a package called a Universal Binary. Based on the Propellerheads' commitment to always provide the highest possible performance on all computer platforms supported, Propellerhead made the decision to deviate from Apple's recommendation. A Universal Binary actually contains two compiled applications, one for PPC and one for Intel. To create a Universal Binary, Propellerhead would need to use Apple's XCode compiler for both the PPC and Intel versions of the program. By contrast, the shipping version of Reason for PPC computers (version 3.0.4) is compiled with Motorola's CodeWarrior compiler. Unfortunately, internal performance testing shows that compiling Reason for PPC using Apple's XCode compiler creates a significantly slower program than the shipping 3.0.4 version that is available today. For this reason it has been decided to keep the two versions separate for the time being. While this creates a small inconvenience in that users have to manually determine which version is the right one to install, this is by far outshined by the advantages of having maximum performance.

[Kilsane]

Reason studio is not so late when we see big companies as native instrument not always ported all their software in M1 format (+ only kontakt is native M1), SSL are still not M1 Native, VST output no more ......

Ableton is native M1 but is not able to load an intel x86 vst, which forces many users to use Rosetta or use AU but in this case the project no longer works correctly on windows

[rootwheel]

Reason studio are not so late when we see d=only big box as native instrument not always ported all their software in M1 format (+ only kontakt is native M1), SSL are still not M1 Native, VST output no more ......

Ableton is native M1 but is not able to load an intel x86 vst, which forces many users to use Rosetta or use AU but in this case the project no longer works correctly on windows

Because computers are much more powerful today than they were in 2006, I think developers are being a lot slower on the uptake given Apple has provided Rosetta 2 and it works really well. In 2006 when the Mac architecture changed from PPC to Intel, the original Rosetta wasn't really powerful enough to emulate music software at low latency and with reasonable performance.

Interestingly, Apple may have to disable Rosetta 2 in some regions at some point as it's unclear just how happy Intel is with their proprietary CPU instruction sets being emulated in software: https://9to5mac.com/2021/03/02/apple-ma ... -suggests/

[guitfnky]

and M1 came out what, a year and a half ago? is it really entitled to think they should have figured out how to get their software to run on a year and a half old architecture? it’s not users’ fault RS f*cked up the quality control in order to get 12 out the door.

As I mentioned, some daws only got m1 support within the last couple of months. Had the bug not happened, it would have come earlier. Basically, the whining about how much time it's taken ignores that it took other daws and lots of other software products ROUGHLY just as long.

Now the misconception about quality control and rushing the product out.

Quality control, first of all wouldn't have made m1 support come out earlier, they'd still have to fix the bug. Second of all, it's a bug that is too rare for quality control (as it's dependant on user environment, and in a nutshell is the exact type of bug that can miss even the best quality control). This is true in theory and practice.

So even with the absolute best QC available and not rushing to get it out the door, you'd still be without M1 support, because it just wouldn't have been released and people would be whining about R12 taking soooo looong, ... "are we there yet?".

And it's not a matter of "figuring out" how to use the M1. It's just a production task that may involve work on adapting their development tools and configuration.

But it's also dependant on the tools and libraries they use having m1 support as well as well as testers and developers having an M1.

Whatever reason it took this long, it also took some other daws roughly the same amount of time. So in this case, the ONLY Reason we're waiting a few extra months is because they've carried out a gargantuan task of overhauling the UI to offer performant, realtime and responsive hi-dpi rendering (... and of raster graphics).

This is why it seems childish to me.

This is a huge undertaking that is vastly more complex than anything you've likely ever done or ever will do, and than you could likely imagine.

It's like when a child whines about their parents taking so long to get back from work. Food just magics itself onto the table. Presents magically appear under the tree each year. They have no idea or appreciation for what it takes to "adult". They just throw tantrums and whine when they don't get what they want when they want it.

I'm not sure what one bug you're talking about, but R12 is STILL in an unstable, inefficient state, with plenty of bugs to go around. the point is, they've prioritized the wrong thing—supporting a new architecture on a stable piece of software should have come before pushing out a buggy new version because money. there's no misconception there.

the ONLY Reason we're waiting a few extra months is because they've carried out a gargantuan task of overhauling the UI to offer performant, realtime and responsive hi-dpi rendering (... and of raster graphics).

uh, yeah, about that...they haven't. it IS in high DPI now, but the rest? no.

This is a huge undertaking that is vastly more complex than anything you've likely ever done or ever will do, and than you could likely imagine.

now who's being childish?

[avasopht]

This is a huge undertaking that is vastly more complex than anything you've likely ever done or ever will do, and than you could likely imagine.

now who's being childish?

You've lost me.

That isn't an insult. It's a statement of fact.

The complexities involved in things like software development, or putting the man on the moon are unimaginable to most people. You just wouldn't have any idea what's involved without having worked on something with the same level of inherent complexity.

It's not saying anything other than that (for example it's not saying those people are better, more intelligent, or even more capable, ... just that the complexity of the undertaking is ALIEN to anyone who has never been involved in something as complex).

It probably would have helped if I explained this beforehand otherwise it could come across as just an insult rather than a representation of the situation. Suffice to say, people tend to fill in the gaps of what they don't know with things they do know.

I've seen sociology grads try to reason about matters of science using a geopolitical and socioeconomic lens. It made absolutely no sense to anyone with an elementary understanding of the science involved, but they were adamant that you could infer the cause of things like COVID by just chasing the money, or by looking at who would benefit. There were other things thrown in that I don't care to remember, ...

---

EDIT: for reference guitfnky later goes on to do the following (so I just decided to remove the rest of my response):
1. Say no, it's not a statement of fact
2. Then says, this "not a statement of fact" is something he has to explain to others (which contradicts his claim it's not a statement of fact because he's just admitted most people don't have an awareness of just how complex these things are)
3. Falsely accuses me of assigning ignorance to him to prove a point (and not just because what he said gave me that impression)
4. Says he's going to ignore what I write anyway

[avasopht]

The mess they've made out of Reason 12 does not instil me with a lot of confidence they'll have a solid ARM build ready any time soon - or that they will release it for free for current license holders like they did with Reason 3.0.5.

Sure, and maybe they'll require us to pay for the upgrade with our prized internal organs and sign a binding contract in blood etched by a quill forged from the still-growing femurs of a baby Swan.

No. We can safely say it will be a free upgrade.

Come on with the non-sequiturs already. Might as well claim they'll increase the price to £5,000 if we're just gonna be making stuff up without any rhyme or reason.

I'd say there's no more than a 0.3% chance M1 support skips R12 It's just highly unlikely.