physical modules or Reason?

[carboot]

Years ago I tried Reason and quickly left because it didn't make sense. Over the last few years, I got into eurorack and decided to try Reason again. Needless to say, after having used a physical module (and other DAWs), Reason now makes a lot more sense. In the future though, I'm not sure I can do both.

Reason

• + better for recording
• - you can't resell it
• + cheaper in the long run

Physical

• + better for performing
• + you can resell modules
• - scarcity of specific modules or parts

These are some pros and cons I thought of, but would love to hear any experiences anyone has had in going from physical modules to Reason (or vice versa).

[challism]

One of your negatives of Reason needs a little clarification: You can resell Reason DAW, just not the REs. REs are fixed to your account (DAW license isn't).

Another positive for Reason is the fact that software doesn't age or become faulty/break. If it works today, it'll work 10 years from now (on the same OS). Can be reinstalled and moved to other systems, etc.

And the flip side of that positive is another negative for physical hardware: It ages and is subject to failure.

[pushedbutton]

Reason
I feel it's easier to get support when it comes to troubleshooting any issues that may arise.
If a flight case full of your reason gear gets dropped into the ocean you'd probably still be able to salvage your live performance whereas your physical gear would be harder to replace.
Physical
It looks cool with all the blinking lights and wires and stuff, also, no one cares.

Hybrid
+ You can do a bit of both as Reason supports Midi in and out.

[DaveyG]

Physical:
+ Real knobs
+ Doesn't rely on a licence server or an OS version
- Can't save patches
- Can cost crazy money

I've never been into modular but I used to be 100% hardware then gradually moved into 100% software (apart from the guitars). These days I'm drifting back outside of the box a little, mostly because of the plethora of quality budget synths out there. It didn't take many bits of hardware to remind me of what a ball ache it can be to get stuff to sync and talk nicely to each other at compatible signal levels. And no matter how many cables you own, you always need one that's a bit longer, or one with a right-angle plug on the end, or one that is wired differently because some dumbass designer invented their own "standard". But it still has something that you don't get with pure software. I guess you could call it soul.

[MrFigg]

Buy buy buy!!!! Get ‘em all.

[PhillipOrdonez]

Buy buy buy!!!! Get ‘em all.

Listen to this guy!

[PhillipOrdonez]

On a serious note. I'm doing the hybrid thing. Pretty happy with how it goes. Love the flexibility of doing one or the other or both. 10/10 can recommend.

[buddard]

I've also taken the hybrid approach, using the Expert Sleepers ES-9 + expanders to send and receive audio and CV between Reason and my eurorack, giving me 16 outputs and 10 inputs in total. I also have a Kenton Modular Solo MIDI/CV Interface which handles 1 CV/Gate pair, 2 Clocks and 4 Aux (which can be assigned to Velocity and MIDI CCs).

The advantage of software modules is that you can create multiple instances of each and that the state is saved with the song.
The physical modules provide a more hands-on experience and a chance to get away from the screen while patching and jamming.

[bxbrkrz]

How close are the digital emulations compared to the original modules, if both versions exist. I am thinking of vcv rack for exemple.

[carboot]

Buy buy buy!!!! Get ‘em all.

If I received raises more often, this is clearly the route I'd be going on

The advantage of software modules is that you can create multiple instances of each and that the state is saved with the song.
The physical modules provide a more hands-on experience and a chance to get away from the screen while patching and jamming.

Oh!! Everything here I meant to include, especially the "multiple instances" part. Also, I do enjoy getting away from the screen more than I thought I would.

[madmacman]

Another positive for Reason is the fact that software doesn't age or become faulty/break. If it works today, it'll work 10 years from now (on the same OS). Can be reinstalled and moved to other systems, etc.

And the flip side of that positive is another negative for physical hardware: It ages and is subject to failure.

This must be comedy. Nothing ages faster than software. Of course - if you stick with your system and put an identical spare system in your store room, then it might work. And probably on Windows it works better than with Apple and macOS. Apple users have to put their entire software environment upside down with the advent of ARM Macs. As they did 15 years ago with the switch from PPC to Intel.

But my 35 year old Yamaha DX7 and 15 year old Waldorf Blofeld (to name just two) have aged well. And I even cannot remember what computer and software I used back in the days…

[challism]

Of course - if you stick with your system and put an identical spare system in your store room, then it might work.

This sounds like you are agreeing with me; saying the software (Reason) would outlast the hardware (computer). Why else would you need a backup, identical computer system other than hardware failure? So glad we agree.

Of course, I'm twisting things a bit because software is dependent upon hardware, and the argument being made is physical hardware vs Reason (which depends on computer hardware). But the point being made is that the software part of the equation outlasts its hardware counterparts.

This must be comedy. Nothing ages faster than software.

I knew, as I was tying the word "age", that somebody would pick apart that word choice. I should have picked a better word than age, because it can be applied in different ways.. Of course, software ages in terms of trends, or updates (which are usually optional) or becoming incompatible with new hardware. My use of the word "age" was meant in the physical sense; software doesn't get dusty or corroded. I live in an extremely humid environment and I've been saddened to see my hardware take the abuse it has taken in this humidify. Pretty much all the hardware I brought with me has all stopped working. This is hardware that was working just fine in my arid climate for years, and it is all non-functional and unusable now. These are things like the Boss ME-50 that is notoriously built like a tank (it must be corroded so badly inside, I can't get any sounds out of it). But Reason still works. In fact, Reason has worked perfectly for me on the same computer from V1 to V6.5. And they still work great on that old computer (which has needed new parts over the years - Reason hasn't needed any new "parts"). I had to upgrade to 64bit OS to move to R7, but that was NEW software and totally optional. And it still works great too. Since upgrading to R7, I've gone through many "new" computers and had to replace many computer parts (hard drives, RAM, power supplies, mother boards). In my experience, this his harsh climate, the software has far outlasted the hardware. Each version of Reason still looks and performs as it did the first day I installed it, and I can install on older version anytime I want to get the same performance I've always gotten. That's what I was saying.

[madmacman]

Of course, software ages in terms of trends, or updates (which are usually optional) or becoming incompatible with new hardware.

Yeah, probably it's a matter of proper definition. And by your description it doesn't matter if you blame hardware for aging (in fact it does - my trusty DX7 needs recapping in a not so distant future) or if you have the same issues with "aged" computer hardware and need a new computer. In both cases it's not cheap! Worst case of course: if your old Apple Mac breaks and you must buy a new one: you have no choice but decide for the latest OS (incompatibility) and CPU architecture, if you don't buy used.

I'm an old fellow, grown up with "hardware only" long before the first true DAW came to light. And while my friends and I used DAW's, we always preferred our hardware devices over plugins. But that's probably a different story of individual socialization.

At the end of the day, every path has its pitfalls. And it's a only matter of personal preference what you want to mess with on a daily basis.

[challism]

Of course, software ages in terms of trends, or updates (which are usually optional) or becoming incompatible with new hardware.

Yeah, probably it's a matter of proper definition. And by your description it doesn't matter if you blame hardware for aging (in fact it does - my trusty DX7 needs recapping in a not so distant future) or if you have the same issues with "aged" computer hardware and need a new computer. In both cases it's not cheap! Worst case of course: if your old Apple Mac breaks and you must buy a new one: you have no choice but decide for the latest OS (incompatibility) and CPU architecture, if you don't buy used.

I'm an old fellow, grown up with "hardware only" long before the first true DAW came to light. And while my friends and I used DAW's, we always preferred our hardware devices over plugins. But that's probably a different story of individual socialization.

At the end of the day, every path has its pitfalls. And it's a only matter of personal preference what you want to mess with on a daily basis.

If money was no object, I would have WAY more hardware than I do. My hardware is pretty sorry anymore... just ask my disappointed wife about that. But I agree with sentiments others have made... hybrid is a good way to go.

[selig]

In the future though, I'm not sure I can do both.

Why not?
Many of us do just that, and find it to be the best of both worlds. It's not for everyone, to be sure, but if you have an interest in both worlds they can easily be explored together IMO.

[carboot]

In the future though, I'm not sure I can do both.

Why not?
Many of us do just that, and find it to be the best of both worlds. It's not for everyone, to be sure, but if you have an interest in both worlds they can easily be explored together IMO.

When I said that origianlly, I meant that I couldn't do both in terms of money. Things often get expensive quickly.

A hybrid system is interesting though. I may have to think about that this weekend.

[jlgrimes]

Years ago I tried Reason and quickly left because it didn't make sense. Over the last few years, I got into eurorack and decided to try Reason again. Needless to say, after having used a physical module (and other DAWs), Reason now makes a lot more sense. In the future though, I'm not sure I can do both.

Reason

• + better for recording
• - you can't resell it
• + cheaper in the long run

Physical

• + better for performing
• + you can resell modules
• - scarcity of specific modules or parts

These are some pros and cons I thought of, but would love to hear any experiences anyone has had in going from physical modules to Reason (or vice versa).

Reason pros
Easier for collaborations
Takes up less space
Does more than modular synthesis
Can hook up modular synths to Reason



In the end you might end up with a bit of both though. Computer software and hardware make good friends.

[jlgrimes]

How close are the digital emulations compared to the original modules, if both versions exist. I am thinking of vcv rack for exemple.

As far as Analog synths I think it can get pretty close.

I often play Analogs at Guitar Center and I don't hear much difference compared to VSTis like Diva or certain REs like Viking.

The biggest thing is workflow. An analog (or modular) can be more rewarding to program and tweak. Even if using a good midi controller, it still isn't as intuitive as a dedicated interface.

Computer GUIs and hardware controllers have come a long way but still knobs can be a little easier when trying to find tune settings.


That said on the flip side there are often thousands of patches easily available for softsynths, which would be difficult or impossible to manage in hardware.

[bxbrkrz]

How close are the digital emulations compared to the original modules, if both versions exist. I am thinking of vcv rack for exemple.

As far as Analog synths I think it can get pretty close.

I often play Analogs at Guitar Center and I don't hear much difference compared to VSTis like Diva or certain REs like Viking.

The biggest thing is workflow. An analog (or modular) can be more rewarding to program and tweak. Even if using a good midi controller, it still isn't as intuitive as a dedicated interface.

Computer GUIs and hardware controllers have come a long way but still knobs can be a little easier when trying to find tune settings.


That said on the flip side there are often thousands of patches easily available for softsynths, which would be difficult or impossible to manage in hardware.

Old school cameras. You have 12, 24 opportunities per roll. So you would think twice before taking that shot.

Beyond the sonic reproduction, the workflow is indeed everything. A patch on a modular system is ephemeral. Millions of patches on softsynths, but how many we remember creating, or enjoying listening, compared to that slow, purposeful analog workflow.

[avasopht]

Hardware doesn't have to be expensive.

But I think the most important thing is to not see this as a thing.

Either way is fine. It doesn't really matter.

You can either make terrible music with *hardware, software or both

*: I'm treating instruments as hardware

[djsmex]

I now use a kind of hibread in the sense of MIDI control with Remote to give a more hands-on feel to the software but originally come from full hardware with audio mixers, samplers, turntables etc.

[carboot]

Either way is fine. It doesn't really matter.

When I posted this originally, it wasn't to say one was better than the other. My issue was that they both seemed expensive, so I was trying to pick a route to go down. A few people in this thread presented the idea of a hybrid system. I didn't consider that before, but that might work for me at some later time.

[QVprod]

Different mindset. I’ll take usefulness over resale value. If I enjoy using it, it’s highly unlikely that I’ll sell it. So resale value becomes negligible. Like everyone else said, If you like both, do both.