"I use Reason" reaction

This forum is for discussing Reason. Questions, answers, ideas, and opinions... all apply.
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SuperStellartones
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Post 24 Jan 2022

moofi wrote:
22 Jan 2022
I hear where you are coming from and fully get the advantages of workflow improvements in a professional environment, where you potentially have to put out constantly.
Aswell on an amateur level it naturally makes things easier and also fun to work with. Then the question isn´t really about mere functionality. It´s asking to swap programs and that for at least here would mean a greater disadvantage compared to the so far lack of workflow improvements, simply because Reason is Reason and other DAW lack in its compartment. It´s similar to the difference between RE and VST.
I'm very much a hobbyist, but with aspirations of being more.

And you're right... it's always a trade-off... "Do I spend my X number of very limited music-making hours per week learning how to use a new tool, or do I plod on with what I know? What will I gain? Is it worth it?"

In my case, while I was less productive in the short-term using a new DAW, I'm far more productive now then I would have been if I stayed in Reason, making the investment of time well worth it.

For me it's been like this analogy -- I've been driving a bike for years for recreation, and I can even get to work on my bike. But man, the bike sucks when it rains and is impossible in the snow. And I can't take my groceries home on my bike. And if I bike to work, I get there all sweaty. Maybe my bike isn't the right tool. Maybe I should learn how to drive a car. Though learning something new will be a pain, maybe it will be worth it. And I can always use my bike for fun when I want to.

For me, Reason is the bike in this story, and Bitwig is the car, lol.

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orthodox
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Post 24 Jan 2022

SuperStellartones wrote:
24 Jan 2022
For me, Reason is the bike in this story, and Bitwig is the car, lol.
To me, they both are motor vehicles, although differing from each other.

This might be what Reason could look like (based on the latest assessments in the forum):

Image
(The "Furthur" bus)

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Quarmat
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Post 24 Jan 2022

I dunno, I am no professional, I'm still (slowly) learning in so many fields of music production, but I am into computer music since the 90s. I began my journey with FastTracker 2 and Cakewalk, used Fruity Loops a couple of years and tried extensively (not owned them tho, it was on a roommate computer at the uni) Logic and ProTools. But when Reason hit the market I was blown away and still am. This piece of software has soul. Dunno how to explain. I recently had to use Live for a project for a video for a customer (I am a designer by trade) and on the free time I tried to make something with it just for fun. Oh boy, it's all grey, monochrome-ish, cold and unwelcoming. The stock synths, samplers, effects all have the minimal, grey interface of the DAW. VSTs are VSTs: floating windows with no connection with the rest.

You may say, we're here to do music not to discuss about UI and design. True. But 10 minutes on Live and my inspiration has run dry.

I fire up Reason and I have to give priority to an idea over the other two that just sparked in my mind.

It has flaws, allright, but to me Reason is irreplaceable.

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moofi
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Post 24 Jan 2022

I was talking less about a learning curve. After having at least briefly worked with several DAW I came across (aswell got Live) I noticed getting into new DAW being relatively easy here. Regarding functionality they vary only that much.
While other DAW tend to be more advanced at parts they lack in the way Reason works and also feels working with here:

.
The Reason Why.jpg


SuperStellartones wrote:
24 Jan 2022
moofi wrote:
22 Jan 2022
I hear where you are coming from and fully get the advantages of workflow improvements in a professional environment, where you potentially have to put out constantly.
Aswell on an amateur level it naturally makes things easier and also fun to work with. Then the question isn´t really about mere functionality. It´s asking to swap programs and that for at least here would mean a greater disadvantage compared to the so far lack of workflow improvements, simply because Reason is Reason and other DAW lack in its compartment. It´s similar to the difference between RE and VST.
I'm very much a hobbyist, but with aspirations of being more.

And you're right... it's always a trade-off... "Do I spend my X number of very limited music-making hours per week learning how to use a new tool, or do I plod on with what I know? What will I gain? Is it worth it?"

In my case, while I was less productive in the short-term using a new DAW, I'm far more productive now then I would have been if I stayed in Reason, making the investment of time well worth it.

For me it's been like this analogy -- I've been driving a bike for years for recreation, and I can even get to work on my bike. But man, the bike sucks when it rains and is impossible in the snow. And I can't take my groceries home on my bike. And if I bike to work, I get there all sweaty. Maybe my bike isn't the right tool. Maybe I should learn how to drive a car. Though learning something new will be a pain, maybe it will be worth it. And I can always use my bike for fun when I want to.

For me, Reason is the bike in this story, and Bitwig is the car, lol.
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Seckin
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Post 24 Jan 2022

Reason was accessible to the masses back in the day when it used to be a mere toy, so the masses regarded it as a toy.

Reason was inaccessible to the masses when it became a serious DAW (Codemeter), so the masses continued to regard it as the toy it once was.

Today Reason is once again accessible to the masses, but well, the damage is done. Chances are you'll forever be getting the "I use Reason" reaction, because ain't nobody got time for that.
If you can't make a hit with Malstrom, Subtractor and Redrum, you can't make a hit at all.

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EnochLight
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Post 24 Jan 2022

Seckin wrote:
24 Jan 2022
so the masses regarded it as a toy.
It's all about perspective. Every piece of music gear that any musician has every touched in history is technically a "toy" - we all play with them and have great fun. If you're not doing that, then you're doing it wrong, or it's time to move on to another toy. :thumbup: :cool:
Win 10 | Enabling the Abelton ABLERS Live 11 Suite-Ably |  Reason 12 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro | Akai MPC Live 2 & Force | Roland System 8, TR-8 7x7, MX1, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD

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selig
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Post 24 Jan 2022

EnochLight wrote:
24 Jan 2022
Seckin wrote:
24 Jan 2022
so the masses regarded it as a toy.
It's all about perspective. Every piece of music gear that any musician has every touched in history is technically a "toy" - we all play with them and have great fun. If you're not doing that, then you're doing it wrong, or it's time to move on to another toy. :thumbup: :cool:
So True - I don't WORK music, I PLAY music…
:)
Selig Audio, LLC

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crimsonwarlock
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Post 25 Jan 2022

selig wrote:
24 Jan 2022
I don't WORK music, I PLAY music…
Someone is going to steal that for a signature line :puf_bigsmile:

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avasopht
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Post 25 Jan 2022

crimsonwarlock wrote:
25 Jan 2022
selig wrote:
24 Jan 2022
I don't WORK music, I PLAY music…
Someone is going to steal that for a signature line :puf_bigsmile:
Could be the winning marketing message for Reason ;)
---

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moofi
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Post 25 Jan 2022

Well said :-D
selig wrote:
24 Jan 2022
[...]

So True - I don't WORK music, I PLAY music…
:)

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plaamook
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Post 25 Jan 2022

Sure making music is a lot about play but I work to finish that music. I work on sound.
I don't think anyone ever argued against Reason as a playful platform.
It tends to get criticised for it's limitations and it's lack of full functioning features not it's lack of playfulness.
Perpetual Reason 12 Beta Tester :reason:

You can check out my music here.
https://m.soundcloud.com/ericholmofficial
Or here.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC73uZZ ... 8jqUubzsQg

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moofi
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Post 25 Jan 2022

I feel like it is aswell a reference to playing an instrument emphasising the practical musical part.
plaamook wrote:
25 Jan 2022
Sure making music is a lot about play but I work to finish that music. I work on sound.
I don't think anyone ever argued against Reason as a playful platform.
It tends to get criticised for it's limitations and it's lack of full functioning features not it's lack of playfulness.

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selig
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Post 25 Jan 2022

plaamook wrote:
25 Jan 2022
Sure making music is a lot about play but I work to finish that music. I work on sound.
I don't think anyone ever argued against Reason as a playful platform.
It tends to get criticised for it's limitations and it's lack of full functioning features not it's lack of playfulness.
That is exactly why I said what I said. To explain my quote: I ‘play’ music so I find Reason to be well suited to that mentality.
I ‘work’ on fixing problems, then I play with sound. I work to increase my skill set then I am able to play my emotions in the form of music.

So yes, work is involved when you practice your instrument or read a manual. but I’ve never felt like a listener wants to listen to you work or watch you work, They want to watch you play, to listen to you playing music - not ‘working’ music.

Yes, this is word play to make a point, which is in my life’s experience the music I ‘worked’ on was not inspiring or satisfying to me like the music I ‘played’. And so far, Reason gives me that feeling better than other DAWs despite it’s MANY shortcomings. It is just a personal thing I’m sharing here, not something I’m trying to convince others of. 🤓
Selig Audio, LLC

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mimidancer
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Post 25 Jan 2022

bxbrkrz wrote:
08 Jan 2022
orthodox wrote:
08 Jan 2022
I wonder what the reason is for that rejection. Has it just lingered from those days when Reason didn't have VST support or audio tracks?
Groupthink syndrome.
I agree. People are sheep. The truth is no matter what DAW one uses there are limitations. I use reason's DAW because it is the same workflow as an actual recording studio. But I can actually play. If I were piano roll dependent and needed to copy and paste things because I lacked the ability to express myself with musicianship, I might like Live more. What gets me most about Live users is how they cry on reason forums. If you like Live, use it. Reason does not need to be like anything except reason. Its modular design allows the player to make it what they want. Limitations force innovation. Some people wonder why one would choose a eurorack system over a powerful polysynth. The reason is the same. There are gems in the constraints of a given media. Like sometimes I when I want an extra modulation in thor I add a Europa to the rack and, boom. There it is. Sometimes one has to do more than turn it on to get results. That is the fun of reason. And please don't get me wrong about playing and musicianship. There are many talented producers who cannot play. My point is I don't miss the features that other DAWs. and Groupthink syndrome plays a role in the hate reason gets. I also believe that makers of other software actively fuel the negativity. Lastly, some people feel they must tear something down to be cool. I call it the hipster factor. In the end they are still using reason. Why, because Reason is good. You know you would die of boredom if all you used were Ableton's synths and efx.

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bxbrkrz
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Post 25 Jan 2022

mimidancer wrote:
25 Jan 2022
bxbrkrz wrote:
08 Jan 2022


Groupthink syndrome.
I agree. People are sheep. The truth is no matter what DAW one uses there are limitations. I use reason's DAW because it is the same workflow as an actual recording studio. But I can actually play. If I were piano roll dependent and needed to copy and paste things because I lacked the ability to express myself with musicianship, I might like Live more. What gets me most about Live users is how they cry on reason forums. If you like Live, use it. Reason does not need to be like anything except reason. Its modular design allows the player to make it what they want. Limitations force innovation. Some people wonder why one would choose a eurorack system over a powerful polysynth. The reason is the same. There are gems in the constraints of a given media. Like sometimes I when I want an extra modulation in thor I add a Europa to the rack and, boom. There it is. Sometimes one has to do more than turn it on to get results. That is the fun of reason. And please don't get me wrong about playing and musicianship. There are many talented producers who cannot play. My point is I don't miss the features that other DAWs. and Groupthink syndrome plays a role in the hate reason gets. I also believe that makers of other software actively fuel the negativity. Lastly, some people feel they must tear something down to be cool. I call it the hipster factor. In the end they are still using reason. Why, because Reason is good. You know you would die of boredom if all you used were Ableton's synths and efx.
100%
I believe the term 'Borg' is more suitable than 'sheep' in some cases. There is an element of nudging coercion that a 'sheep' is not able to do.
I mean a real sheep seems happy :-)
757365206c6f67696320746f207365656b20616e73776572732075736520726561736f6e20746f2066696e6420776973646f6d

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mimidancer
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Post 26 Jan 2022

SuperStellartones wrote:
24 Jan 2022
moofi wrote:
22 Jan 2022
I hear where you are coming from and fully get the advantages of workflow improvements in a professional environment, where you potentially have to put out constantly.
Aswell on an amateur level it naturally makes things easier and also fun to work with. Then the question isn´t really about mere functionality. It´s asking to swap programs and that for at least here would mean a greater disadvantage compared to the so far lack of workflow improvements, simply because Reason is Reason and other DAW lack in its compartment. It´s similar to the difference between RE and VST.
I'm very much a hobbyist, but with aspirations of being more.

And you're right... it's always a trade-off... "Do I spend my X number of very limited music-making hours per week learning how to use a new tool, or do I plod on with what I know? What will I gain? Is it worth it?"

In my case, while I was less productive in the short-term using a new DAW, I'm far more productive now then I would have been if I stayed in Reason, making the investment of time well worth it.

For me it's been like this analogy -- I've been driving a bike for years for recreation, and I can even get to work on my bike. But man, the bike sucks when it rains and is impossible in the snow. And I can't take my groceries home on my bike. And if I bike to work, I get there all sweaty. Maybe my bike isn't the right tool. Maybe I should learn how to drive a car. Though learning something new will be a pain, maybe it will be worth it. And I can always use my bike for fun when I want to.


For me, Reason is the bike in this story, and Bitwig is the car, lol.

I get that. I have not used Bitwig. I do use Reason, Logic, Live, and Protools. For me, Reason is where I find magic. Or as you would say the road. What features make Bitwig your choice?

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SuperStellartones
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Post 26 Jan 2022

mimidancer wrote:
26 Jan 2022

I get that. I have not used Bitwig. I do use Reason, Logic, Live, and Protools. For me, Reason is where I find magic. Or as you would say the road. What features make Bitwig your choice?
Some key things for me in Bitwig...

1) the browser is absolutely brilliant -- super fast, highly organizable
2) the modulation options are amazing
3) midi editing is fantastic
4) audio editing is great
5) track management features like grouping and freezing (muting/hiding) work flawlessly
6) template creation and track recall features (e.g. you can pull individual tracks out of a template) help save an enormous amount of time
7) it opens super quick, it hardly breaks a sweat even with a complex arrangement and is very stable
8) I find the clip launcher is great for working out arrangements.

Eddi-16
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Post 26 Jan 2022

@ Reason Studios

Please update the sequencer & general workflow of the DAW a.s.a.p.

dakta
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Joined: 30 Aug 2021

Post 26 Jan 2022

"Reason does not need to be like anything except reason."

thats one totally reasoned way to shut down the topic :D

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mimidancer
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Post 27 Jan 2022

bxbrkrz wrote:
25 Jan 2022
mimidancer wrote:
25 Jan 2022


I agree. People are sheep. The truth is no matter what DAW one uses there are limitations. I use reason's DAW because it is the same workflow as an actual recording studio. But I can actually play. If I were piano roll dependent and needed to copy and paste things because I lacked the ability to express myself with musicianship, I might like Live more. What gets me most about Live users is how they cry on reason forums. If you like Live, use it. Reason does not need to be like anything except reason. Its modular design allows the player to make it what they want. Limitations force innovation. Some people wonder why one would choose a eurorack system over a powerful polysynth. The reason is the same. There are gems in the constraints of a given media. Like sometimes I when I want an extra modulation in thor I add a Europa to the rack and, boom. There it is. Sometimes one has to do more than turn it on to get results. That is the fun of reason. And please don't get me wrong about playing and musicianship. There are many talented producers who cannot play. My point is I don't miss the features that other DAWs. and Groupthink syndrome plays a role in the hate reason gets. I also believe that makers of other software actively fuel the negativity. Lastly, some people feel they must tear something down to be cool. I call it the hipster factor. In the end they are still using reason. Why, because Reason is good. You know you would die of boredom if all you used were Ableton's synths and efx.
100%
I believe the term 'Borg' is more suitable than 'sheep' in some cases. There is an element of nudging coercion that a 'sheep' is not able to do.
I mean a real sheep seems happy :-)
I agree most sheep seem happy. Though I must disagree about Borg. Borg would easily assimilate reason. Then would have no choice but to drop stiff but sick beats. Can we agree on lemmings?

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mimidancer
Posts: 165
Joined: 30 Sep 2021

Post 27 Jan 2022

EnochLight wrote:
24 Jan 2022
Seckin wrote:
24 Jan 2022
so the masses regarded it as a toy.
It's all about perspective. Every piece of music gear that any musician has every touched in history is technically a "toy" - we all play with them and have great fun. If you're not doing that, then you're doing it wrong, or it's time to move on to another toy. :thumbup: :cool:

The same people who are throwing reason away are the people that sold their prophet 5 for a DX 7. Cold and soulless creatures. They also pitched their TB303 in the trash because it did not sound like a bass guitar.

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bxbrkrz
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Post 27 Jan 2022

mimidancer wrote:
27 Jan 2022
bxbrkrz wrote:
25 Jan 2022

100%
I believe the term 'Borg' is more suitable than 'sheep' in some cases. There is an element of nudging coercion that a 'sheep' is not able to do.
I mean a real sheep seems happy :-)
I agree most sheep seem happy. Though I must disagree about Borg. Borg would easily assimilate reason. Then would have no choice but to drop stiff but sick beats. Can we agree on lemmings?
I guess we could, but real lemmings are so cute.
757365206c6f67696320746f207365656b20616e73776572732075736520726561736f6e20746f2066696e6420776973646f6d

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Seckin
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Post 27 Jan 2022

SuperStellartones wrote:
26 Jan 2022
mimidancer wrote:
26 Jan 2022

I get that. I have not used Bitwig. I do use Reason, Logic, Live, and Protools. For me, Reason is where I find magic. Or as you would say the road. What features make Bitwig your choice?
Some key things for me in Bitwig...

1) the browser is absolutely brilliant -- super fast, highly organizable
2) the modulation options are amazing
3) midi editing is fantastic
4) audio editing is great
5) track management features like grouping and freezing (muting/hiding) work flawlessly
6) template creation and track recall features (e.g. you can pull individual tracks out of a template) help save an enormous amount of time
7) it opens super quick, it hardly breaks a sweat even with a complex arrangement and is very stable
8) I find the clip launcher is great for working out arrangements.
Are some of these really "features" though? Like I cannot imagine a DAW company announcing a feature set saying "Our browser is absolutely brilliant. Oh and the modulation options are freaking amazing! Midi editing you say? Well of course it's just fantastic! And I can't even begin to describe how great audio editing is in this mighty fine piece of software we made! It's perfect!"

Would be better if you could elaborate a bit.
If you can't make a hit with Malstrom, Subtractor and Redrum, you can't make a hit at all.

bangaio
Posts: 109
Joined: 18 Jan 2015

Post 27 Jan 2022

Seckin wrote:
27 Jan 2022
SuperStellartones wrote:
26 Jan 2022


Some key things for me in Bitwig...

1) the browser is absolutely brilliant -- super fast, highly organizable
2) the modulation options are amazing
3) midi editing is fantastic
4) audio editing is great
5) track management features like grouping and freezing (muting/hiding) work flawlessly
6) template creation and track recall features (e.g. you can pull individual tracks out of a template) help save an enormous amount of time
7) it opens super quick, it hardly breaks a sweat even with a complex arrangement and is very stable
8) I find the clip launcher is great for working out arrangements.
Are some of these really "features" though? Like I cannot imagine a DAW company announcing a feature set saying "Our browser is absolutely brilliant. Oh and the modulation options are freaking amazing! Midi editing you say? Well of course it's just fantastic! And I can't even begin to describe how great audio editing is in this mighty fine piece of software we made! It's perfect!"

Would be better if you could elaborate a bit.
A DAW company like this: https://www.reasonstudios.com/press/147 ... n-software

"For Reason 8, we’ve introduced a new creative flow that feels second nature"
"Reason 8 introduces a redesigned user interface, fresh new look and even smoother creative flow."

Or even this sort of detailed openness and clarity in developments to something dull like the sequencer:

https://web.archive.org/web/20020210145 ... index.php3

"I am mainly working on the sequencer. I'm going to finish the real-time recording and so on. I gotta figure out how to draw changes of the tracks in "real-time" while recording. When coding this kind of stuff you want to make sure the window never contains stale or invalid graphics, but you also want to redraw as little as possible and as quickly as possible. And without flicker. Challenge. I also have to get all this to work with our undo-system."


Bitwig's browser is mindblowingly good and makes all the other DAWs I have used look antiquated. Bitwig is definitely the sum of its parts and is such a slick and modern feeling environment. It is essentially everything Reason isn't these days. You may not like things like a brilliant browser being a "feature" but it really is just brilliant and contributes so much to the process overall.

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SuperStellartones
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Post 27 Jan 2022

bangaio wrote:
27 Jan 2022

Bitwig's browser is mindblowingly good and makes all the other DAWs I have used look antiquated. Bitwig is definitely the sum of its parts and is such a slick and modern feeling environment. It is essentially everything Reason isn't these days. You may not like things like a brilliant browser being a "feature" but it really is just brilliant and contributes so much to the process overall.
Amen, brother!

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