"I use Reason" reaction

[challism]

Huge Reason fanboy here from many years back. I've spent 100s of hours in Reason and I've made a lot of music using it.

I found that other DAWs were "not as fun" and "not as inspiring", but I was so frustrated by certain things in Reason I forced myself to learn something else. I decided on Bitwig and now I'll never go back to Reason, unless RS makes some major updates.

The workflow is incredibly fast and intuitive in Bitwig. There was a small learning curve, but now I can make more music, be more efficient and ultimately have more fun.

Going back to Reason now would almost be like going back to my 4-track recorder. Man, it would be fun to play around with that old 4-track again -- but I need to get things done, not just screw around!

Reason just seems like a toy to me now, not a serious tool for finishing productions. Sorry.

You created an account on this forum and posted your first post just to say you don't want to go back to Reason. While I appreciate you opinion, I wonder why you would waste your time on a Reason forum if you aren't interested in using the software.

And if I were to start using another DAW, I think Bigwig would be my choice.

[Billy+]

Huge Reason fanboy here from many years back. I've spent 100s of hours in Reason and I've made a lot of music using it.

I found that other DAWs were "not as fun" and "not as inspiring", but I was so frustrated by certain things in Reason I forced myself to learn something else. I decided on Bitwig and now I'll never go back to Reason, unless RS makes some major updates.

The workflow is incredibly fast and intuitive in Bitwig. There was a small learning curve, but now I can make more music, be more efficient and ultimately have more fun.

Going back to Reason now would almost be like going back to my 4-track recorder. Man, it would be fun to play around with that old 4-track again -- but I need to get things done, not just screw around!

Reason just seems like a toy to me now, not a serious tool for finishing productions. Sorry.

You created an account on this forum and posted your first post just to say you don't want to go back to Reason. While I appreciate you opinion, I wonder why you would waste your time on a Reason forum if you aren't interested in using the software.

And if I were to start using another DAW, I think Bigwig would be my choice.

[DaveyG]

Huge Reason fanboy here from many years back. I've spent 100s of hours in Reason and I've made a lot of music using it.

I found that other DAWs were "not as fun" and "not as inspiring", but I was so frustrated by certain things in Reason I forced myself to learn something else. I decided on Bitwig and now I'll never go back to Reason, unless RS makes some major updates.

The workflow is incredibly fast and intuitive in Bitwig. There was a small learning curve, but now I can make more music, be more efficient and ultimately have more fun.

Going back to Reason now would almost be like going back to my 4-track recorder. Man, it would be fun to play around with that old 4-track again -- but I need to get things done, not just screw around!

Reason just seems like a toy to me now, not a serious tool for finishing productions. Sorry.

Welcome back to the forum

[SuperStellartones]

You created an account on this forum and posted your first post just to say you don't want to go back to Reason. While I appreciate you opinion, I wonder why you would waste your time on a Reason forum if you aren't interested in using the software.

And if I were to start using another DAW, I think Bigwig would be my choice.

I still love the idea of Reason, and I use RRP. I meant that I won't be going back to the Reason DAW/sequencer. And I have high hopes that someday the DAW as a whole will improve, thus I'm interested in this forum.

[orthodox]

I still love the idea of Reason, and I use RRP. I meant that I won't be going back to the Reason DAW/sequencer. And I have high hopes that someday the DAW as a whole will improve, thus I'm interested in this forum.

That changes everything. We all have our hopes.

[challism]

You created an account on this forum and posted your first post just to say you don't want to go back to Reason. While I appreciate you opinion, I wonder why you would waste your time on a Reason forum if you aren't interested in using the software.

And if I were to start using another DAW, I think Bigwig would be my choice.

I still love the idea of Reason, and I use RRP. I meant that I won't be going back to the Reason DAW/sequencer. And I have high hopes that someday the DAW as a whole will improve, thus I'm interested in this forum.

OK, that make sense and I understand where you are coming from. I really hope RS doesn't give up the ship and [continue? to] improve the DAW. I really can't stand using other DAWs, so I'm not interested in using the RRP at all (I only ever use other DAWs and the RRP when beta testing). That being said, I can't believe I'm actually shopping around, looking at other DAWs. Cakewalk has the best price (free) but Bitwig looks like the one I would actually go to, if RS doesn't get their shit together. Sad times for RS fans. I wish they would focus 100% on the DAW for the next couple of years, instead of developing new REs/devices.

[SuperStellartones]

I really can't stand using other DAWs, so I'm not interested in using the RRP at all (I only ever use other DAWs and the RRP when beta testing). That being said, I can't believe I'm actually shopping around, looking at other DAWs. Cakewalk has the best price (free) but Bitwig looks like the one I would actually go to, if RS doesn't get their shit together.

I was absolutely in the same boat as you. I was really uninterested in learning something new and nothing seemed to grab my attention like Reason had. Reason really was my first love... I almost felt disloyal looking at other DAWs.

But I had hit so many walls working with Reason (my biggest complaints were around the lack of track grouping, freezing... basic quality of life organizational functions that so many other DAWs offer) that I felt, if I was going to take my productions to the next level, I had no choice but to give another DAW a chance. I tried Live, StudioOne and Bitwig... but Bitwig kept bringing me back.

Anyway, I'm not trying to sell anyone on any particular DAW. But making the leap out of my comfort zone from using Reason to something else has been 100% worth it. It's like I've moved from using a horse-and-buggy to driving a Tesla.

[moofi]

Just saying, like people tend to confuse both.

That´s actually MPD (multi personality disorder), not schizo

MPD, DID, BPD, "split" are clinical cases. I meant a mild one, that anyone can afford

[moofi]

Just out of curiosity, how did workflow improvements like grouping and freeze take your productions to a new level?
Do the listeners notice these improvements in the final musical outcome?

[...]
But I had hit so many walls working with Reason (my biggest complaints were around the lack of track grouping, freezing... basic quality of life organizational functions that so many other DAWs offer) that I felt, if I was going to take my productions to the next level, I had no choice but to give another DAW a chance. [...]

[avasopht]

Just out of curiosity, how did workflow improvements like grouping and freeze take your productions to a new level?
Do the listeners notice these improvements in the final musical outcome?

[...]
But I had hit so many walls working with Reason (my biggest complaints were around the lack of track grouping, freezing... basic quality of life organizational functions that so many other DAWs offer) that I felt, if I was going to take my productions to the next level, I had no choice but to give another DAW a chance. [...]

Workflow.

Technically speaking you could render a track one channel at a time and manually mix it with what has already been bounced.

Workflow matters

[moofi]

Yes, I know, workflow. Asking not about workflow in general helping to get things done. Asking about the new production level along any possible improvement in sound one could here in the final outcome. Like things not done before because of a lack in workflow.

Just out of curiosity, how did workflow improvements like grouping and freeze take your productions to a new level?
Do the listeners notice these improvements in the final musical outcome?

Workflow.

Technically speaking you could render a track one channel at a time and manually mix it with what has already been bounced.

Workflow matters

[SuperStellartones]

Yes, I know, workflow. Asking not about workflow in general helping to get things done. Asking about the new production level along any possible improvement in sound one could here in the final outcome. Like things not done before because of a lack in workflow.

I don't know if there are necessarily tangible differences in the quality of my work -- though with each project I should be getting a little better at the craft of music making, right?

The big difference is quantity, output -- I can finish full songs quicker, easier and with less frustration.

In Reason, for me, while it's always easy and fun to get an 8-bar loop going with a half dozen tracks, building that out to 20+ tracks with a full arrangement, doing cut-downs (I write some stuff for TV/film), mastering in Reason, etc, etc -- it becomes nightmarish, virtually unusable.

Part of the problem is there's no way to freeze tracks, and very quickly, piling-up VST instruments will kill Reason. Another problem is the Rack -- it's hard to navigate when you start to get lots of tracks. And the sequencer becomes unruly too -- there's is no way to group tracks. It's a constant process of bouncing, opening a new project, pulling the stems into the new project, yada, yada. Why would anyone want to work this way if there's something better?

[EnochLight]

So, let's recap - we have Toro y Moi (Grammy nominated BTW), Drake, and other professionals who use Reason, yet there's still this weird perception that it's not popular or fashionable?

That's just... weird.

For the record, RS (then Propellerhead) have been publicizing professional artists using Reason for a very long, long time (others in my actual wheelhouse are Bon from Nitzer Ebb, as well as Beastie Boys). I don't think any amount of endorsements or mentions will ever stop the Internet from thinking it's just not good enough, though.

Anyway, I'm not trying to sell anyone on any particular DAW. But making the leap out of my comfort zone from using Reason to something else has been 100% worth it. It's like I've moved from using a horse-and-buggy to driving a Tesla.

LMAO!!! Sure.

I went with Ableton Live 11 Suite myself. Bitwig is just the redheaded stepchild of ex-Ableton devs. jk

[crimsonwarlock]

Perception is everything. Many hit records were made with FL Studio, but to me, it still looks like a toy program

I've been a Reaper user for over a decade, and it can surely do a lot that Reason can't. Most other DAWs can do basically (more or less) the same things as Reaper. Yet, Reason is now my main DAW because it can do things that no other DAW, including Reaper, can do. Suffice to say, it has to do with cables. So to me, Reason sits in this niche, where just stacking instruments and FX onto mixer channels isn't enough.

[EnochLight]

Trust me, I didn't want to have to go with Ableton Live 11 Suite - it's just that Reason 12 is unusable for me in its current state. And after 20+ years in Reason, I just wanted to mix things up and try something new. Live also integrates much better with my MPC Live II and Akai Force, so it was a no-brainer.

[SuperStellartones]

Trust me, I didn't want to have to go with Ableton Live 11 Suite - it's just that Reason 12 is unusable for me in its current state. And after 20+ years in Reason, I just wanted to mix things up and try something new. Live also integrates much better with my MPC Live II and Akai Force, so it was a no-brainer.

I'm with you. I'd happily go back to using Reason as my main DAW again if it just improved in a few key areas. It's got nothing to do with perception for me... it's simply not the best tool for maximizing my music production efforts.

[Billy+]

Trust me, I didn't want to have to go with Ableton Live 11 Suite - it's just that Reason 12 is unusable for me in its current state. And after 20+ years in Reason, I just wanted to mix things up and try something new. Live also integrates much better with my MPC Live II and Akai Force, so it was a no-brainer.

I've been getting on ok with the lite version of Live 11 and although it's not my first choice it's definitely growing on me especially after our conversation about the Force and with Reason 12 not being a viable option for the moment, it's an unfortunate fact but I'm seriously considering buying it an leaving Reason as a plugin that for the most part I won't be expanding.

I'm still holding out that the main DAW will start seeing worth while improvements but for the first time I've not upgraded and haven't purchased a single device possibly since 20/21 sales as I just don't see the point in expanding something that is stubbornly ignoring the demand for improvements in favour of becoming a plugin.

It would be nice to see a roadmap that acknowledges the standalone product as it's easy to understand the reluctance to add to much while going through the code changes for hidpi but it's not entirely worth the wait considering the price the state plus all the delays.

[EnochLight]

It would be nice to see a roadmap that acknowledges the standalone product as it's easy to understand the reluctance to add to much while going through the code changes for hidpi but it's not entirely worth the wait considering the price the state plus all the delays.

Their last roadmap update did acknowledge the standalone DAW portion of Reason (both VST3 support and M1 support are coming by May 2022). That said, it doesn't do me a world of good with Reason in its current state I'm afraid.

[moneykube]

It would be nice to see a roadmap that acknowledges the standalone product as it's easy to understand the reluctance to add to much while going through the code changes for hidpi but it's not entirely worth the wait considering the price the state plus all the delays.

Their last roadmap update did acknowledge the standalone DAW portion of Reason (both VST3 support and M1 support are coming by May 2022). That said, it doesn't do me a world of good with Reason in its current state I'm afraid.

MAY 2022 That is crazy for all those that bought 12 outright when it came out... How the subscribers are not really complaining confuses me... I guess most did not have many of the devices so they are happy in that rabbit hole.

[moneykube]

Trust me, I didn't want to have to go with Ableton Live 11 Suite - it's just that Reason 12 is unusable for me in its current state. And after 20+ years in Reason, I just wanted to mix things up and try something new. Live also integrates much better with my MPC Live II and Akai Force, so it was a no-brainer.

I went with 10 suite before 11 came out... More then enough to explore there... Barely touched the surface so far... Reason 11 suite suits my needs 100 percent at this time with the many racks that it came with, the racks I bought and my many VST plugs... Will use Live if I have time to learn it properly... and Logic for more lengthy projects... but I still find logic illogical the way it is set up compared to Reason... so it is not one I use often... only when needed

[Billy+]

It would be nice to see a roadmap that acknowledges the standalone product as it's easy to understand the reluctance to add to much while going through the code changes for hidpi but it's not entirely worth the wait considering the price the state plus all the delays.

Their last roadmap update did acknowledge the standalone DAW portion of Reason (both VST3 support and M1 support are coming by May 2022). That said, it doesn't do me a world of good with Reason in its current state I'm afraid.

I'm not sure that vst3 support and M1 build is primarily for standalone as RRP needs to be native else what's the point and vst3 is just part of that puzzle from my limited understanding vst2 and native M1 don't play nice without extra work - but I could be wrong -

either way I really don't see them as standalone improvements just necessary for the times, what I meant in my previous comment was real sequencer improvements,

having midi players is fun (which is what the rack is about) but Lives midi scales and fold functions are simpler better and far more extendable without the cost.

3rd party midi vst arpeggios blow dual arp out of the water but still aren't functional in Reason because of the continued refusal to fully implement the vst feature.

Even simple stuff like the continues call for more channel colour or being able to write to all the labels haven't been done and this stuff is years old relatively easy but ignored.

Don't get me wrong I'm not one of those people who want Reason to end up like bitwig live or god forbid reaper and I generally think RS have kept true to the main principles of Reason but I would really appreciate some improvements as I'm sure you would

[Eprom]

I am old.

I used to have a studio FULL of hardware (Atari) computers, synths, modules, drumcomputers and effect units and with that hundreds and hundreds of (MIDI) cables. When Reason came out it was amazing: all the synths and effects you wanted and no more cable crap. So I sold all of my hardware and went fully software based. Oh the joy of NOT hearing 50 odd fan's blowing and cables humming.

But now I started buying hardware again. I missed the tactile feel of real knobs and sliders on a synth and to be able to tweak two or three synths at the time. And with that I started to get frustrated with using Reason as a DAW. There are many, many MIDI limitations. F.I. you can't send out a MIDI clock to more than one synth at a time!?

So I started to use Logic Pro more and more and more. And nowadays I hardly startup Reason again.

Long story short: if you compose fully digitally Reason is just fine, but as soon as you start adding hardware you will discover lots of limitations.

(PS. I could have been rich by now if I had kept all my analogue gear, seeing the prices my old synths make today )

[EnochLight]

I'm not sure that vst3 support and M1 build is primarily for standalone as RRP needs to be native else what's the point and vst3 is just part of that puzzle from my limited understanding vst2 and native M1 don't play nice without extra work - but I could be wrong -

either way I really don't see them as standalone improvements just necessary for the times,

You'll get no complaints from me - I totally agree. That said, VST3 support is 100% a fully standalone feature though, so in that sense it's "something" at least. Reason Rack has been a VST3 itself since launch in R11.

what I meant in my previous comment was real sequencer improvements,

Oh totally - Reason is laughably behind in that sense (hence my decision to pickup Ableton Live during the BF sales). The main sequencer getting absolutely zero love - aside from high res - in Reason 12 has been one of the biggest disappointments for me this upgrade. And I know they're trying to improve the browser with quick-search right now, but that's been busted for me since late 2021. Bah... I'm getting irritated the more I think about it.

[Billy+]

Irritated - definitely with you on that I've felt that way since R11 and R12 hasn't done anything to improve my mood, let's hope that they surprise us before another version passes by.....

[moofi]

I hear where you are coming from and fully get the advantages of workflow improvements in a professional environment, where you potentially have to put out constantly.
Aswell on an amateur level it naturally makes things easier and also fun to work with. Then the question isn´t really about mere functionality. It´s asking to swap programs and thatfor at least here would mean a greater disadvantage compared to the so far lack of workflowimprovements, simply because Reason is Reason and other DAW lack in its compartment. It´s similar to the difference between RE and VST.

Yes, I know, workflow. Asking not about workflow in general helping to get things done. Asking about the new production level along any possible improvement in sound one could here in the final outcome. Like things not done before because of a lack in workflow.

I don't know if there are necessarily tangible differences in the quality of my work -- though with each project I should be getting a little better at the craft of music making, right?

The big difference is quantity, output -- I can finish full songs quicker, easier and with less frustration.

In Reason, for me, while it's always easy and fun to get an 8-bar loop going with a half dozen tracks, building that out to 20+ tracks with a full arrangement, doing cut-downs (I write some stuff for TV/film), mastering in Reason, etc, etc -- it becomes nightmarish, virtually unusable.

Part of the problem is there's no way to freeze tracks, and very quickly, piling-up VST instruments will kill Reason. Another problem is the Rack -- it's hard to navigate when you start to get lots of tracks. And the sequencer becomes unruly too -- there's is no way to group tracks. It's a constant process of bouncing, opening a new project, pulling the stems into the new project, yada, yada. Why would anyone want to work this way if there's something better?