Reasonstudios Black Friday Week

This forum is for discussing Reason. Questions, answers, ideas, and opinions... all apply.
kitekrazy
Posts: 894
Joined: 19 Jan 2015

Post 24 Nov 2021

Kuranes2021 wrote:
24 Nov 2021
It really hurts to see so many veteran Reason users lose their faith in the company. I have to admit, this is the first time since I originally bought Reason 4, that I didn't upgrade (from Reason 11 Suite), mostly because I would need a new graphic card to make R12 run on my PC, and I can't afford a new right now.

Considering the letdown that R12 seems to have been for many users, I guess I'm lucky that I didn't buy the upgrade. Budt that saddens me, because I really would have liked to support the company that created the software that provides me fullfilling since I first used Reason 2.0 in the end of 2002.

And how much money I invested in not just upgrades, but - like many of you - in countless REs. Once I calculated the amount of money I must have paid. I reached a number of about 6.000 Euros. That was about two years ago before I bought Friction, Algoritm, Pattern mutator and more REs at the day they were released.

Considering this, I guess there's no doubt I really supported Reason Studios.

But the recent developments make me feel bitter.

I really wonder, if Reason Studios makes enough money with Reason + to justify the way they deal with their established community (and 3rd party devs who did their not so small part to keep Reason in the game)
I wouldn't expect any honesty there. I wonder if it will go so far as developers parting way and creating n new DAW.

MuttReason
Posts: 38
Joined: 28 Jan 2021

Post 24 Nov 2021

Pepin wrote:
22 Nov 2021
Billy+ wrote:
22 Nov 2021
With the changes in EU&UK law over the next few months "January 2022" moving software into the sales of goods legislation and enforcement happening in 2024 you might find the perpetual licensing is not available as more consumers will be able to use the legislation to claim when software is faulty and was purchased with a license but software as s services will continue to be excluded. ;)
I don't know much about the legislation, but this link says:
For content or services supplied in a continuous manner over a period (such as a time-limited cloud storage contract or indefinite social media platform membership) your rights will be further enhanced – you will have the right to receive updates and to report defective content and services for the whole duration of the contract.
So maybe subscriptions aren't a loophole?
Yep. SaaS sold to consumers will be covered just like anything else digital. Same is true of streaming services etc. The Directive covers all of what it calls "incorporated or interconnected digital content or digital ser­vices". There is a long and dull history behind this in terms of EU institutional scrutiny of tech companies but short version is... if you're an EU consumer and you purchase a digital product or service in any form, you will (theoretically) be able to fall back on a tougher set of rules if something goes wrong. It's a key part of the EU's perspective on the Digital Single Market (which also means any member state citizen can take action cross-border within the EU).

Theoretically..... in reality, it's likely that if companies screw up then take ages to fix, consumers can agitate but as long as company can prove it's undertaking best endeavours to put right, then not much happens. So not that different to now, in truth. Only if a company utterly screws up and/or is proven to be totally malign in mis-selling to consumers could they face serious enforcement action... but don't hold your breath for that TBH, these things take years.

And while RS have dropped the ball with R12, I really don't think they've screwed up completely (it seems that R12 sorta works, mostly although imperfectly, for some people at least) and they definitely haven't got themselves in this mess deliberately... they seem genuinely mortified by all of this stuff in fact (to their credit).

MuttReason
Posts: 38
Joined: 28 Jan 2021

Post 24 Nov 2021

Kuranes2021 wrote:
24 Nov 2021
It really hurts to see so many veteran Reason users lose their faith in the company. I have to admit, this is the first time since I originally bought Reason 4, that I didn't upgrade (from Reason 11 Suite), mostly because I would need a new graphic card to make R12 run on my PC, and I can't afford a new right now.

Considering the letdown that R12 seems to have been for many users, I guess I'm lucky that I didn't buy the upgrade. Budt that saddens me, because I really would have liked to support the company that created the software that provides me fullfilling since I first used Reason 2.0 in the end of 2002.

And how much money I invested in not just upgrades, but - like many of you - in countless REs. Once I calculated the amount of money I must have paid. I reached a number of about 6.000 Euros. That was about two years ago before I bought Friction, Algoritm, Pattern mutator and more REs at the day they were released.

Considering this, I guess there's no doubt I really supported Reason Studios.

But the recent developments make me feel bitter.

I really wonder, if Reason Studios makes enough money with Reason + to justify the way they deal with their established community (and 3rd party devs who did their not so small part to keep Reason in the game)
It's a mess, for sure. RS have got more wrong over the last 6-9 months than they have over the preceding 19 years in my view. A mixture of poor product quality control and poor market strategy in the rush to move to a subs model as the lead 'call to action' and a rush to hit a self-imposed deadline for the R12 launch that overlooked what they MUST have known back in August were a bunch of QC issues. Too much, too quickly, and all of it badly handled.

But... I've not given up yet. They've made some serious errors recently, but it's a long life, I've stuck with this company's products for 20 years.... and they still have a little time left to put things right before I give up completely.

I'm also realising that (for me at least) there's a bigger problem far beyond RS. I'm less confident now in music software, full stop. I went through the Ableton Live 11 experience at launch (total CPU-munching bug fest) and now there is the Logic Pro 10.7 shitshow. And that's before I get into VSTs that I paid a lot for that have never been stable, the whole NI experience etc etc (seriously... NI users can make this board look like a happy valley filled with bunnies and rainbows). The platforms we run this stuff on are more complex than ever before, and the goalposts move ever year... the annual circus whenever Apple update Mac OSX, the migration to M1 architecture etc etc (and TBF the MS equivalent).

Yes, the new is usually better than the old in some way, and some software is more stable than others. But step back from it all and it's a relentless process of updating and system tweaking rather than just sit down, switch on, make music, time after time. I'm a musician not a software engineer. I don't have to level the frets on my bass every couple of weeks just to be able to make a sound. That's a once in a decade job (or more often if it's a Gibson :D ). The other tools I use to make music shouldn't be any different.

It cannot be a coincidence that the global MI industry and MI retail industry are pivoting increasingly towards hardware, and hardware sales are buoyant everywhere. Once hardware works, it stays working forever unless you bash it or drop it. I have gear in my studio that still works day in day out after two decades. I used to be able to say that about Reason.... not now though.

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plaamook
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Post 24 Nov 2021

I know a chap in Bristol who runs Logic 9 on an old Mac Pro and he just treats it like the rest of his vintage gear.

I’m almost there. I said recently I’m waiting for Fabs Volcano3 and reason to sort out the sequencer. Then I’m out. I might not be really but that’ll cover all the crap I think is outstanding. I don’t want an endless arms race like Mutt’s talking about.

Sure computers die etc. But I think one more seriously jacked MBP and what listed above and I can just go off line and run it into the ground.

Or until the next update.
But I’m always thinking about how our situation is a kind of potential sinking ship.
And the antidote, for me, is to build fire breaks of a sort. Even now if I had to go native and just use my comp for music and films only I could do it.
That’s also why when reason goes sub only I’m out.
Perpetual Reason 12 Beta Tester

You can check out my music here.
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Mataya
Posts: 265
Joined: 03 May 2019

Post 24 Nov 2021

Reason is a joy to use and look at. Just wish they revisit existing code and devices more often. I still don't mind buying stuff, but It feels kinda weird when I see how much I spent trough the years. I'll buy that cv morphing shit from retouch and I'm pretty sure I need that graphic eq from red rock I think.
I really support what they'r doing, for now. And support Re developers even more. I just love that shit. Noise engineering is my favorite.

Feel free to see what I'm doing with it when having fun and just groovin' https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgru9D ... VO7VXOxgeQ

tx
Mataya

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Faastwalker
Posts: 2049
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

Post 24 Nov 2021

nickb523 wrote:
23 Nov 2021
challism wrote:
23 Nov 2021

I'm curious how RS decision to leave all their products out of the sale will affect 3rd party sales. Obviously they will get a huge increase, as there aren't any RS REs to choose, but I'm just curious how much the numbers will increase. Maybe RS will take a look at that and realize it was a mistake. Lost income for RS, really.
RS usually help drive third party sales so I'm not particularly hopeful for a good sale period this year. BF is usually insane for sales to the point that most of us probably make the bulk of their yearly income throughout BF and Xmas but so far this year it's looking pretty dead.
I’ve just watched the latest SonicTalk where one of the subjects was BF sales. Everyone said pretty much the same. Nobody was particularly interested any more. They’ve already got software coming out of their ears. They don’t need anymore. Ty Unwin said he had so many BF emails he just deleted them all without a look. They also mentioned that more often than not there are sales. So if you skip BF there will be another sale along before very long. I feel this is very much the case with the RS shop, where I can’t remember the last time I paid full price for anything. You generally have an intro price and if you miss that you can hold your breath until the next sale happens!

Is the software market completely saturated? What’s more, if you’ve been into this stuff for any period of time chances are you’ve already amassed a stack of software. Personally I feel I need another software synth like a need another hole in my head, regardless of price, intro, sale etc. With regards to Reason I think it’s fair to say a lot of us here are concerned about the future of the platform. I’ve no doubt we’re moving towards a subscription only model before very long. And when that happens how many people are going to stick around? Why invest on shaky ground? Makes no sense with so many other options out there.

ravasb
Posts: 135
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

Post 24 Nov 2021

Reason has a built in, long time user base that has a history of giving them money, yet that is the group they have neglected the most. If they had released a rock solid version 12, like they had previous versions, and included a road map that was substantial and not exceedingly vague, this user base would continue to support them. I just got yet another BF email from them for an offer that I am not even eligible for because I am a current subscriber. I know James said that they are not equipped to extend subscriptions, but that is a choice they made, just like no resale in the store, and not some software glitch that just happened to them.

I have given so much time and money to this product over the years, which is the only reason I keep posting on this forum, hoping that something will get better. I don't just want to walk away from this program, but it is getting harder and harder to feel good about it.

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Social Exodus
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Location: The wilds of North Idaho

Post 24 Nov 2021

All this makes me miss the old dedicated hardware Digital Audio Workstations. I never had to sort out anything - it just worked.

This is a very competitive space, no doubt.
:reason: 12 Perpetual License :re: Too many to count :refill: A few choice items

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moalla
Posts: 151
Joined: 20 Oct 2017

Post 25 Nov 2021

The 90bugs update deal was quiet nice, someone will say „ for sake“ but it’s okay. I mean propellerheads in the past acting like a small builders company without a business plan, who let lie potential on the floor...
A lot of old reasoners are still wondering what’s up inter market of music software corps, this time you get so much well coded stuff for free, cause programmers are no longer support their stuff and give it away for free, yeah a lot was written about consolidating of Industrie and market shares, the Vogue of majors and there system to rewrite everything etc.
But well the market is totally saturated, also rack extension became saturated in the last two years, automated overcomplicated filters, the next version of synth X, so at the end I see there are real nerds and freaks how are coding stuff for easy fast sounddesign with the right ideas, how are primarily looking for the perfect tune and there are next version graphic wonder designer xyz how are boring for musicians!

I didn’t bought new stuff cause most of them sucks
A Filter like blamsofts F16 is a easy and cool way to bring out the right reasonans britle sound, and last I decided to get lectrics PSQ-1684 wich is an outstanding unit, with amazing functionality's for electronic music sound design. So do i need more, nope.
there is no right life in the wrong one [T.W. Adorno]
3900x core, firefaceUC, CME VX5, TriggerFingerPro,Eve SC205, DT880pro,PortokasseSUB
excessively many :re: to get blackouts :lol:

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nickb523
RE Developer
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Location: Fife, Scotland

Post 25 Nov 2021

Faastwalker wrote:
24 Nov 2021
With regards to Reason I think it’s fair to say a lot of us here are concerned about the future of the platform. I’ve no doubt we’re moving towards a subscription only model before very long. And when that happens how many people are going to stick around? Why invest on shaky ground? Makes no sense with so many other options out there.
This is actually the one area I would say is looking positive. R+ is a good product but it needs more than just the sound packs to wow people. Honestly, once Reason is patched up stable for everyone and new devices start flowing in I can't see it failing. This whole conversation with people jumping ship is pretty short sighted as the subscription thing is coming to a DAW near you very soon - The whole industry is heading that way whether we like it or not.

I genuinely think the platform itself is fine. The third party eco-system (RE's in particular) is what is currently on shaky ground as RS appear to be almost completely cutting the cord. I just wish they would step forward and tell developers what their overarching plan is. Do RS themselves even know? - It's all a bit of a mystery.

A few tinfoil hat speculations I have -

1. They are intentionally strangling the market so us devs will agree to less than stellar terms to integrate all RE's into the sub.

2. They want to eventually sunset RE's in order to streamline and bring a more focused feel to the whole Reason experience.

3. They no longer want such a reliance on third party developers for device based content. Somebody, somewhere, at some point, must have looked at the amount of money outgoing monthly to third party devs and said "couldn't we just make those devices ourselves and save on that outgoing?".

As I said, it's all a bit of a mystery! :?:

Cue X-Files music...

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EnochLight
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Post 25 Nov 2021

nickb523 wrote:
25 Nov 2021
A few tinfoil hat speculations I have -

1. They are intentionally strangling the market so us devs will agree to less than stellar terms to integrate all RE's into the sub.

2. They want to eventually sunset RE's in order to streamline and bring a more focused feel to the whole Reason experience.

3. They no longer want such a reliance on third party developers for device based content. Somebody, somewhere, at some point, must have looked at the amount of money outgoing monthly to third party devs and said "couldn't we just make those devices ourselves and save on that outgoing?".

As I said, it's all a bit of a mystery! :?:

Cue X-Files music...
Yeah those are some FOX "news" worthy tinfoil hat conspiracy theories for sure! :lol:
Win 10 | Abelton Live 11 Suite |  Reason 12 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | Sumsung 870 QVO 2 TB SSD | RME Babyface Pro | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, TR-8 7x7, MX1, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD

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Pepin
Posts: 211
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Post 25 Nov 2021

nickb523 wrote:
25 Nov 2021
Do RS themselves even know? - It's all a bit of a mystery.
I get the sense that they're keeping all options open until Reason+ is a proven success (or not).

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Billy+
Posts: 3165
Joined: 09 Dec 2016

Post 25 Nov 2021

Pepin wrote:
25 Nov 2021
I get the sense that they're keeping all options open until Reason+ is a proven success (or not).
Subscription isn't going anywhere, it's here to stay and to be fair it's a good option for new customers but I wonder how long before the price start to increase and at what point does it start to not be reasonable?

I can't spend €$£20 a month for sound packs but new customers are getting access to all the rack extensions which I have purchased. If you accept that 3-4 new rack extensions per year are going to be released ranging from €$£64-99 each and subscription discount is available at %50 off then it really makes sense.

What's missing is the ability to top up your subscription without loosing months and offline access.
VST 2.4 MIDI It's definitely on the list of todos
Using Reason since version 1 is R11 going to be my final version :shock:

ˁ˚ᴥ˚ˀ Time for a good long sleep ˁ˚ᴥ˚ˀ

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nickb523
RE Developer
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Post 26 Nov 2021

EnochLight wrote:
25 Nov 2021

Yeah those are some FOX "news" worthy tinfoil hat conspiracy theories for sure! :lol:
alex-jones-oh-really.gif
:lol:

Moving on from the tinfoil hattery... I just got a marketing email from RS pushing third party RE sales which is good to see! :)
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

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challism
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Post 26 Nov 2021

nickb523 wrote:
26 Nov 2021
EnochLight wrote:
25 Nov 2021

Yeah those are some FOX "news" worthy tinfoil hat conspiracy theories for sure! :lol:
alex-jones-oh-really.gif

:lol:

Moving on from the tinfoil hattery... I just got a marketing email from RS pushing third party RE sales which is good to see! :)
Don't dismiss a good tinfoil hat. Those things can be quite effective for a number of uses.
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plaamook
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Post 26 Nov 2021

challism wrote:
26 Nov 2021
nickb523 wrote:
26 Nov 2021


alex-jones-oh-really.gif

:lol:

Moving on from the tinfoil hattery... I just got a marketing email from RS pushing third party RE sales which is good to see! :)
Don't dismiss a good tinfoil hat. Those things can be quite effective for a number of uses.
Example?
Perpetual Reason 12 Beta Tester

You can check out my music here.
https://m.soundcloud.com/ericholmofficial

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plaamook
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Post 26 Nov 2021

Faastwalker wrote:
24 Nov 2021
Personally I feel I need another software synth like a need another hole in my head,
How many holes have you got already?
Or are you counting ears and nostrils?
I'd consider nostrils to be holes in your face, technically.
But a third ear could be interesting. Not sure where I'd like it but i could wear ear buds and still hear what's going on arounsd me on a job site.
I'd like my third ear to have a muscle that can flex the auricle so it can grip pencils. I have a hard time with pencils slipping out.
Perpetual Reason 12 Beta Tester

You can check out my music here.
https://m.soundcloud.com/ericholmofficial

slic
Posts: 127
Joined: 01 Jun 2021

Post 26 Nov 2021

This is the 2nd or even 3rd time they have offered a 'years' licence for $99...if they keep doing it every year then effectively a years licence does cost $99 and you would be foolish to pay any more now you know that's the pattern...
Reason+ permanently costs 99USD and Runs from November to November!

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BananaSkins
Posts: 419
Joined: 29 Sep 2017

Post 26 Nov 2021

No Black Friday email from Reason Studios (yes I am subscribed)

I think RS are losing the plot…

I find it crazy I have a free upgraded R12 zipped up on a hard drive gathering digital dust! I have no intention of playing with it in its current state - sad really… :(
Glad I found a great upgrade deal on Nuendo 11 earlier this year - it ticks all my required boxes…

Dropping the ‘Propellerheads’ name started the first crack in my opinion…

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MrFigg
Posts: 7231
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Post 26 Nov 2021

plaamook wrote:
26 Nov 2021
Faastwalker wrote:
24 Nov 2021
Personally I feel I need another software synth like a need another hole in my head,
How many holes have you got already?
Or are you counting ears and nostrils?
I'd consider nostrils to be holes in your face, technically.
But a third ear could be interesting. Not sure where I'd like it but i could wear ear buds and still hear what's going on arounsd me on a job site.
I'd like my third ear to have a muscle that can flex the auricle so it can grip pencils. I have a hard time with pencils slipping out.
Captain Kirk was always talking about the final front ear.
丰2ॐ

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plaamook
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Location: Abajo del mar...

Post 26 Nov 2021

MrFigg wrote:
26 Nov 2021
plaamook wrote:
26 Nov 2021


How many holes have you got already?
Or are you counting ears and nostrils?
I'd consider nostrils to be holes in your face, technically.
But a third ear could be interesting. Not sure where I'd like it but i could wear ear buds and still hear what's going on arounsd me on a job site.
I'd like my third ear to have a muscle that can flex the auricle so it can grip pencils. I have a hard time with pencils slipping out.
Captain Kirk was always talking about the final front ear.
Hah!
I wonder if you'd be better at 5.1 mixes!
Perpetual Reason 12 Beta Tester

You can check out my music here.
https://m.soundcloud.com/ericholmofficial

kitekrazy
Posts: 894
Joined: 19 Jan 2015

Post 26 Nov 2021

I could use more BF sales that are easy to blow off.

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Billy+
Posts: 3165
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Post 26 Nov 2021

kitekrazy wrote:
26 Nov 2021
I could use more BF sales that are easy to blow off.
:thumbup: this is the first year I have spent absolutely nothing, no RE's, no update, no vst's, I haven't even downloaded free stuff.
VST 2.4 MIDI It's definitely on the list of todos
Using Reason since version 1 is R11 going to be my final version :shock:

ˁ˚ᴥ˚ˀ Time for a good long sleep ˁ˚ᴥ˚ˀ

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Arrant
Posts: 439
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Post 26 Nov 2021

Billy+ wrote:
26 Nov 2021

:thumbup: this is the first year I have spent absolutely nothing, no RE's, no update, no vst's, I haven't even downloaded free stuff.
How on earth do you plan on getting any music making done this year? :lol:

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Billy+
Posts: 3165
Joined: 09 Dec 2016

Post 26 Nov 2021

Arrant wrote:
26 Nov 2021
Billy+ wrote:
26 Nov 2021

:thumbup: this is the first year I have spent absolutely nothing, no RE's, no update, no vst's, I haven't even downloaded free stuff.
How on earth do you plan on getting any music making done this year? :lol:
Thankfully I have a 20 year collection for that ;)
VST 2.4 MIDI It's definitely on the list of todos
Using Reason since version 1 is R11 going to be my final version :shock:

ˁ˚ᴥ˚ˀ Time for a good long sleep ˁ˚ᴥ˚ˀ

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