Reason saw osc

[Billy+]

So it's definitely a strange question but do any of the devices in Reason have a saw identical to serums default saw

IMG_2872.JPG (47.24 KiB) Viewed 5058 times

If so which ones?

[plaamook]

Eh...well there’s loads of osc’s in reason. Like friggin loads. Plus Re’s. What’s so special about serum. Out of curiosity. I don’t use it.

[riemac]

So it's definitely a strange question but do any of the devices in Reason have a saw identical to serums default saw

IMG_2872.JPG

If so which ones?

I would say, that the saw in Europa comes closest. Or you could use the serum wavetable in Europa.

[Billy+]

If I'm honest I don't think there's any thing special about it on its own but it definitely sounds different than saws in Reason devices so I was assuming that it must be the osc in serum that is the difference.

Maybe it's a visual thing maybe it's not but it's something that I would simply like to understand a bit more as I can't find one that exactly resembles the serum one

Any suggestions in non 3rd party devices would be greatly appreciated

[Billy+]

I would say, that the saw in Europa comes closest. Or you could use the serum wavetable in Europa.

Comes close is right but definitely doesn't sound like serum and your right I could use a wavetable but I'm after something default/already in a device.

[Loque]

I don't own Serum, but i have a few others. They do more than just playing the oscilators. They have click sounds on attack or fast pitch envelope, different filter designs, saturations, instability, phase sync or not, noise floor, aliasing or not, and so on...

A fricken saw sounds different in most synths.

Just sample Serum and deeply inspect what is generated.

[splitpen]

First of all, don't get tricked by the loudness and the best judgement can be made by level match both synths. Like Loque writen above, synths do sound a bit different. Serum is initialized pretty loud. If you want just one saw and no mulitisoc detune, most synths will do the trick, some being brighter, some being darker/ fat sounding.
Clean ones are europa and wavetable osc of thor on the most right position. Is the random knob on serum on 100% or on zero? This restarts the phase of randomised it on each hit. If it's on zero switch the sync button on the Europa to '"on" this will restart the phase position on each hit. If you want the multisosc, heavy detune or stuff like that go for Serum/ Vital etc. the configuration possibilities on the detune inside Vital for example can't be done with reason default instruments, only if you make huge racks with a lot of routing.

[splitpen]

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7492750

[rcbuse]

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7492750

I knew this topic seemed familiar...

[Billy+]

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7492750

Thanks for finding that I didn't realise that a saw comparison was available,

Also cool bootleg

[challism]

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7492750

Thanks for finding that I didn't realise that a saw comparison was available,

Also cool bootleg

Sad to see that all the images of the OP on that thread are gone.

[splitpen]

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7492750

Thanks for finding that I didn't realise that a saw comparison was available,

Also cool bootleg

Thanks!

Bummer that the images are gone indeed.
When searched google, i found this post and discussion on reddit about some saw shapes/ synths.

Synth Comparison Vol. I - Saws

On this post there's some comparison between the shapes, first one shown is from Serum.



Isn't a super clean saw.

[splitpen]

BTW The shapes folder of Serum can be found in your documents->Xfer folder on Windows , don't know if the init patch is also there

[avasopht]

Thanks for finding that I didn't realise that a saw comparison was available,

Also cool bootleg

Thanks!

Bummer that the images are gone indeed.
When searched google, i found this post and discussion on reddit about some saw shapes/ synths.

Synth Comparison Vol. I - Saws

On this post there's some comparison between the shapes, first one shown is from Serum.



Isn't a super clean saw.

There's an interesting thread somewhere on kvr that also shows some Roland saw oscillators (or was it Yamaha) that featured gaps in the waveform that greatly added to the sound.

[Loque]

Thanks for finding that I didn't realise that a saw comparison was available,

Also cool bootleg

Thanks!

Bummer that the images are gone indeed.
When searched google, i found this post and discussion on reddit about some saw shapes/ synths.

Synth Comparison Vol. I - Saws

On this post there's some comparison between the shapes, first one shown is from Serum.



Isn't a super clean saw.

Thats really interesting. I noticed those "resonances" in the saw loop points in different synths, mostly in synths where i like the sound. I never really got it managed to recreate this in a pleasant way on a stright saw, but i learned that some small changes (resonances, rounding parts of the saw, phase differences, and so on) can have a huge impact on the sound.

[DaveyG]

If you watch any of the YouTube reviews of analogue hardware synths where the reviewer is showing the raw oscillator waveforms on a 'scope you'll see that the waveforms are rarely perfect, and especially so with the triangle and sawtooth waveforms. There is often ringing or distortion near the pointy bits (apologies for the technical term...) The irony is that the engineers of the day probably worked hard to minimise those imperfections but it is those very imperfections that make the sounds more interesting.

[splitpen]

Isn't a super clean saw.
[/quote]

There's an interesting thread somewhere on kvr that also shows some Roland saw oscillators (or was it Yamaha) that featured gaps in the waveform that greatly added to the sound.
[/quote]

Do you mean the "Roland Alpha Juno PWM saw" by coincidence?
Interesting and cool thread i ran into a while ago. The backbone behind the famous hoover sound

https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=420194

[Billy+]

So if it's the imperfections that add to the sound of the saw along with its sync drift and Europa is definitely going to be the better device for playing with this stuff what's missing is a way to create different saw wavetables does anyone know of any free software for producing wavetables based on saws that Europa will be happy with?

Or maybe a saw collection from different devices analog and digital, does RT have a wavetable collection?

Wasn't everyone always after the Juno supersaw sound?

[avasopht]

Isn't a super clean saw.

There's an interesting thread somewhere on kvr that also shows some Roland saw oscillators (or was it Yamaha) that featured gaps in the waveform that greatly added to the sound.

Do you mean the "Roland Alpha Juno PWM saw" by coincidence?
Interesting and cool thread i ran into a while ago. The backbone behind the famous hoover sound

https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=420194

Yep, that's the one.

[DaveyG]

So if it's the imperfections that add to the sound of the saw along with its sync drift and Europa is definitely going to be the better device for playing with this stuff what's missing is a way to create different saw wavetables does anyone know of any free software for producing wavetables based on saws that Europa will be happy with?

Or maybe a saw collection from different devices analog and digital, does RT have a wavetable collection?

Wasn't everyone always after the Juno supersaw sound?

There is a decent selection of free wavetables here:

https://www.echosoundworks.com/eswcorewavetables

I'm playing with them at the moment but with Microfreak rather than a soft synth

I think most wavetables are just wav files where one complete cycle is 2048 samples. Sometimes the file contains one cycle and sometimes they contain more, but always an exact multiple of 2048 samples.

[Billy+]

So if it's the imperfections that add to the sound of the saw along with its sync drift and Europa is definitely going to be the better device for playing with this stuff what's missing is a way to create different saw wavetables does anyone know of any free software for producing wavetables based on saws that Europa will be happy with?

Or maybe a saw collection from different devices analog and digital, does RT have a wavetable collection?

Wasn't everyone always after the Juno supersaw sound?

There is a decent selection of free wavetables here:

https://www.echosoundworks.com/eswcorewavetables

I'm playing with them at the moment but with Microfreak rather than a soft synth

I think most wavetables are just wav files where one complete cycle is 2048 samples. Sometimes the file contains one cycle and sometimes they contain more, but always an exact multiple of 2048 samples.

Thanks will check them out
It's always reassuring when someone else is off on a tangent about interesting things as well (glad I'm not the only person currently thinking about oscillators )

Have you found any particularly interesting ones in the collection?

[huggermugger]

SonicBits has a fine sawtooth-only synth called Silk.

https://www.sonicbits.com/plugins/silk.html

[Billy+]

I'm wondering if Europa can be used to create dirty versions of it own saw that can then be converted into wavetables for fun?

Maybe take the clean saw and some shaper reso or distortion etc...

Has anyone else tried it?

[DaveyG]

Have you found any particularly interesting ones in the collection?

Can't remember the name of the folder but it contains waveforms from many of those classic analogue synths. One of the Moog ones made an immediate impression but I should add that I'm not exactly a wavetable expert. I'm just fumbling around with them and making noises. I should probably make some music at some point.

[eXode]

As I have been pretty nerdy about these things in the past I've come to the conclusion that the shape of the saw on it's own doesn't really matter that much, it's everything else that matters. I.e. can you drive the mixer, filter, and amp in various ways? All those things on the way to the output will have an impact.

Eusti's comparison, while thorough, is also meaningless because each synth will shape the saw differently on the way to it's output so the "differences" you see is not necessarily because the saw is different.

Finally, regarding your first question. The Serum saw is nothing special. It's set to a 180 phase by default meaning that it actually starts from the middle (i.e. at the bottom). So basically it's just like this:

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