Reason 12.2.1 Release Notes

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avasopht
Posts: 2757
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

Post 30 Sep 2021

rootwheel wrote:
30 Sep 2021
I don't understand how they keep breaking things that used to work. Reason 11's development lifecycle was marred by this same issue of regression bugs. No other previous versions of Reason had this happen.

Now Bounce in Place is broken?

How has the code for that feature even been touched if there's nothing new to report around that functionality?

I'm starting to wonder if they've got someone working at the company (since around 2019) who's actually secretly working for one of the other major DAW players and keeps surreptitiously sabotaging tiny bits of the codebase here and there and breaking things that were previously stable! Obviously it's a ludicrous theory!

The only logical explanation is slapdash work! Come on Reason Studios - pull your socks up!
A bug (new or old) can cause other features to stop working or crash. That bug can manifest soon, or years later.
---

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sonicbyte
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Location: Argentina

Post 30 Sep 2021

My main job is as a web developer, so I know how bugs could come from unexpected sources and behaviors, but launching Reason 12 like this is a shame...
Today I was tempted to jump and upgrade since the last update seemed promising because there where fixes of some of the reported bugs... but reading your latest comments guys I think I will pass and stick with Reason 10 until things go smooth again (even if I have to pay more later).

I see that Reason 12 is unstable as jelly, but wonder just to compare...if Reason 11 was as stable and fast as Reason 10 is...

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tronam
Posts: 441
Joined: 04 Mar 2015

Post 30 Sep 2021

No one should feel pressured into buying something if it’s not working correctly on their system right now, by all means wait, but these issues will get fixed. They have to. It’s not just us regular 2 year cycle upgraders anymore, it’s also monthly subscribers; Their whole business model now depends on frequent product updates. Reason just had major surgery on its guts, which I’m sure was both exciting (for future growth), but also terrifying revisiting code that may not have been fundamentally altered in a decade. R12 does feel pretty hot out of the oven, which is a shame, but it’ll get better. Summer is over, so I’m sure it’ll be nose-to-the-grindstone from here on out until Christmas for the RS devs. Maybe check back in 3 months to see how things have improved.
Music is nothing else but wild sounds civilized into time and tune.

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arqui
Posts: 415
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Post 30 Sep 2021

moneykube wrote:
30 Sep 2021
I would rather purchase something that works spending 100 dollars more, rather than jumping on a buggy version for 100 dollars less, hoping that things get fixed... I keep getting emails saying the discount price is running out... really ... could care less... I don't buy on hopes, promises and stated proposed, plans of repair...I have been bitten too many times , falling for promises never realized by this company. It looks like I will be using 10 for rewire, and 11 for it's features, even though the memory leak bug was never fixed as it should have been before reason plus and reason 12 was released! Screen Shot 2021-09-30 at 10.33.55 AM.png
My feeling is totally expressed with your words ... never better said something ...
And I feel very sad to not get on the train ... I no longer know whether to believe that Reason will once again be a solid Rock as it has been since its inception
I clarify I am a user since version 2.5 and always update the first day.
      Reason 11 Suite, perpetual license :reason:

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arqui
Posts: 415
Joined: 22 Jan 2015

Post 30 Sep 2021

sonicbyte wrote:
30 Sep 2021
My main job is as a web developer, so I know how bugs could come from unexpected sources and behaviors, but launching Reason 12 like this is a shame...
Today I was tempted to jump and upgrade since the last update seemed promising because there where fixes of some of the reported bugs... but reading your latest comments guys I think I will pass and stick with Reason 10 until things go smooth again (even if I have to pay more later).

I see that Reason 12 is unstable as jelly, but wonder just to compare...if Reason 11 was as stable and fast as Reason 10 is...
I am happy with Reason 11, but it is just my experience, some still suffer from memory leakage, but I am not one of putting and removing plugins, maybe I am not a parameter. What if sometimes I suffer is a small delay in the audio recording with an inserted plugin.
Reason 10 I think was the last one that has no problems.
      Reason 11 Suite, perpetual license :reason:

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EnochLight
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Post 30 Sep 2021

DNGmaestro wrote:
30 Sep 2021
Took me less than a minute to get a bunch of graphical glitches and crash. The next try took me about 30 seconds, another crash. Avenger still completely unusable. A lot of black borders and other glitches before the crashes. I bought R12 day one, still can’t use it. What’s happening there man?
Are you on Mac? I'm on Windows and Avenger 1.7.0 is working rock solid in Reason 12.2.1d50 for me. Dual monitors, too.
Win 10 | Reason 12 |  Studio 1 4.6 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | Reactor 1TB SSD | RME Babyface Pro | Panorama P-4 | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, TR-8 7x7 Expansion, MX1, JX8P, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD

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plasticfractal
Posts: 112
Joined: 29 Oct 2016

Post 30 Sep 2021

It looks great, and seems to run well for me. The only real complaint is that some VSTs interfaces are tiny now, almost unusable. Thankfully I'm using a 43 inch TV as a monitor so I can still squint and see what I need to, but I bet on a regular sized monitor these VSTs would be microscopic.

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Benedict
Posts: 2486
Joined: 16 Jan 2015
Location: Gold Coast, Australia

Post 30 Sep 2021

AttenuationHz wrote:
30 Sep 2021
Is there any improvements if you delete the cache in %AppData%\Local\Propellerhead Software\Reason should be a folder with 'username_somenumbers' this folder stores the waveform data of audio. I noticed that if I deleted this in r11 for projects that have high edit counts especially stereo edits, Reason would be responsive.
Thanks for working on being helpful & supportive.

I removed the numbered folder and the Mimic Filter Choice came back as did the Transport buttons (still in their broken glory). I will reserve some judgment however as they went awol after some time in the project first time.

The 126 track mix opens with most of the Audio waveforms missing and seems to be doing nothing to build them. It played for a few seconds before audio stopped, and the ever-inaccurate Disc light came up.

So sadly I must say that nothing is better for me in any way that counts in "Pro" software. maybe Mattias can help in some practical way. Maybe testers can raise these issues with my info as I am tired of raising things that get posted to outer space.

:-)

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moneykube
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Joined: 15 Jan 2015

Post 30 Sep 2021

arqui wrote:
30 Sep 2021
My feeling is totally expressed with your words ... never better said something ...
And I feel very sad to not get on the train ... I no longer know whether to believe that Reason will once again be a solid Rock as it has been since its inception
I clarify I am a user since version 2.5 and always update the first day.
I started with 2,5 adapted and of course Rebirth... skipped one version through the years... this may be the 2nd
https://soundcloud.com/moneykube-qube/s ... d-playlist
Member Of The Awesome League Of Perpetuals -

DNGmaestro
Posts: 72
Joined: 20 Jan 2015

Post 30 Sep 2021

EnochLight wrote:
30 Sep 2021
DNGmaestro wrote:
30 Sep 2021
Took me less than a minute to get a bunch of graphical glitches and crash. The next try took me about 30 seconds, another crash. Avenger still completely unusable. A lot of black borders and other glitches before the crashes. I bought R12 day one, still can’t use it. What’s happening there man?
Are you on Mac? I'm on Windows and Avenger 1.7.0 is working rock solid in Reason 12.2.1d50 for me. Dual monitors, too.
PC, Windows 10. Dual monitors as well. Everything working perfect with 11. 12 is no obsolete for me at this moment and i can confirm this update made it worse. Reason for me as also about being a stable platform. This is a disgrace.

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Majestik Monkey
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Joined: 07 Jul 2015

Post 30 Sep 2021

[Reason 12.2.1] ntel(R) Core(TM) i5-2500 CPU @ 3.30GHz 3.30 GHz ,16 Gig Ram, Home , 21H1 All Drivers updated :

1/ The Update displayed an "Error Message" right at the end of the updating process !? with options to Retry ' so i did , then that process Crashed ,
& R12.2.1 installed , So i run it for a 10/15 mins before the same issues started popping up that i was having with the previous version / Many Re's Freezing up ' like slow motion & hard to work with ' Dial & fader & everything else latency + Along with Constant INDEXING as if Searching for Middle Earth?

2/ So Yesterday i Uninstalled this version ' that had the Error message ' Just to be sure !?
& Re downloaded from My account the Full RS 12.2.1 + Sound banks ............... But the very same issues are still present !

3/ The biggest problem/worry to me is the [Constant Indexing Thing ] which carries on until i reboot RS & then it works for a while
but still returns to INDEXING eventually at some point ' then i have to Save & reboot again , :question:

4/Px7 / Zero Hybrid / Jps Harmonic / Revival / Noxious / Mixfood Refresh / Mixfood Unison/ Mixfood Orange/ Blackpole Station
Everyone of these Synths behave in the same manner ' Impossible to work with / Latency .

5/ Even the RS Plugin Version does the same thing in other Daws / Starts that infernal CONSTANT INDEXING Grrrrrrr

6/ I have the latest RS 11 Installed ' With none of the above , works just fine. It's confusing TBH !

7/ Should i roll back to Rs11 , I don't want to after having seen the Better side of the Updates / GUI & Mimic & so on
i have less than 2 weeks since i purchased the Update. Should i just hold out ???

8/ And No i'am not Angry at the Props...........Shit happens...........
Last edited by Majestik Monkey on 01 Oct 2021, edited 1 time in total.

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EnochLight
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Post 30 Sep 2021

DNGmaestro wrote:
30 Sep 2021
PC, Windows 10. Dual monitors as well. Everything working perfect with 11. 12 is no obsolete for me at this moment and i can confirm this update made it worse. Reason for me as also about being a stable platform. This is a disgrace.
Weird. I wonder what’s making things so unstable on yours when we have such a similar setup? What video card are you running? And what’s your driver version?
Win 10 | Reason 12 |  Studio 1 4.6 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | Reactor 1TB SSD | RME Babyface Pro | Panorama P-4 | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, TR-8 7x7 Expansion, MX1, JX8P, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD

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joeyluck
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Post 30 Sep 2021

EnochLight wrote:
30 Sep 2021
DNGmaestro wrote:
30 Sep 2021
PC, Windows 10. Dual monitors as well. Everything working perfect with 11. 12 is no obsolete for me at this moment and i can confirm this update made it worse. Reason for me as also about being a stable platform. This is a disgrace.
Weird. I wonder what’s making things so unstable on yours when we have such a similar setup? What video card are you running? And what’s your driver version?
Avenger was buggy for me on R11. I only trialed it and removed it after it kept crashing and was awful on CPU. Sounds like some of the issues regarding Avenger could be Avenger based? I believe the dev chimed in here on another thread to say they are in contact with Reason Studios.

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Benedict
Posts: 2486
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Location: Gold Coast, Australia

Post 30 Sep 2021

sonicbyte wrote:
30 Sep 2021
I see that Reason 12 is unstable as jelly, but wonder just to compare...if Reason 11 was as stable and fast as Reason 10 is...
I loved R11 (never understood really why so many were hateful about it) but I see R12 as not ready for release. Sadly it was so no going back.
I just hope that RS realize that there is something amiss in more than just these details and get Onatopp of that so we can all be winning again.
Image

:-)

DNGmaestro
Posts: 72
Joined: 20 Jan 2015

Post 01 Oct 2021

EnochLight wrote:
30 Sep 2021
DNGmaestro wrote:
30 Sep 2021
PC, Windows 10. Dual monitors as well. Everything working perfect with 11. 12 is no obsolete for me at this moment and i can confirm this update made it worse. Reason for me as also about being a stable platform. This is a disgrace.
Weird. I wonder what’s making things so unstable on yours when we have such a similar setup? What video card are you running? And what’s your driver version?
GTX 1080 with latest drivers, which should be irrelevant seeing that it runs perfect in Reason 11 and everywhere else. Only Reason 12 is having problems. Besides it's not just me, a lot of people are having this and other issues.

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gullum
Posts: 1140
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Location: Faroe Islands

Post 01 Oct 2021

DNGmaestro wrote:
01 Oct 2021

GTX 1080 with latest drivers, which should be irrelevant seeing that it runs perfect in Reason 11 and everywhere else. Only Reason 12 is having problems. Besides it's not just me, a lot of people are having this and other issues.
What make you think it's irrelevant when Reason 11 does not use the GPU to render graphics but 12 does?

rootwheel
Posts: 82
Joined: 21 Aug 2021

Post 01 Oct 2021

avasopht wrote:
30 Sep 2021
rootwheel wrote:
30 Sep 2021
I don't understand how they keep breaking things that used to work. Reason 11's development lifecycle was marred by this same issue of regression bugs. No other previous versions of Reason had this happen.

Now Bounce in Place is broken?

How has the code for that feature even been touched if there's nothing new to report around that functionality?

I'm starting to wonder if they've got someone working at the company (since around 2019) who's actually secretly working for one of the other major DAW players and keeps surreptitiously sabotaging tiny bits of the codebase here and there and breaking things that were previously stable! Obviously it's a ludicrous theory!

The only logical explanation is slapdash work! Come on Reason Studios - pull your socks up!
A bug (new or old) can cause other features to stop working or crash. That bug can manifest soon, or years later.
I work as a developer for a living; broadly speaking you're correct but code that was working previously usually only stops working when either a dependency changes or the code is altered and then not tested properly.

Either Reason's code is a spaghetti mess (which I doubt given how stable Reason was for years) or their standards have gone to pot recently. Perhaps they're got too many junior developers, perhaps they're iterating over the codebase too quickly or refactoring fully working code unnecessarily without sufficient processes in place to catch new bugs? Whatever it is, they are failing badly at catching bugs (new, old and regression) from being merged downstream and making it into consumer releases.

It seems to me like they need to rethink their approach to software development; their current processes don't seem to be scalable and it seems to me like they're only getting worse. I'm surprised that they seem to not have working unit tests and an automated build process whereby, if a test fails, the build fails. Every piece of functionality within the app should be programmatically testable and every new aspect they write should have a test written for it at the same time - maybe even first.

Releases should not be coming out of the door with parts, which previously worked, now in a regressed and broken state. This isn't the first time this has happened and unless they change something, it's not going to be the last either. Their reputation as a stable code-writing music software development house is rapidly vanishing. They used to be one of the best, now they seem to be one of the worst.

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orthodox
RE Developer
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Post 01 Oct 2021

DNGmaestro wrote:
01 Oct 2021
GTX 1080 with latest drivers, which should be irrelevant seeing that it runs perfect in Reason 11 and everywhere else. Only Reason 12 is having problems. Besides it's not just me, a lot of people are having this and other issues.
Intel UHD 630 (integrated graphics) on 3 monitors here, no issues.

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WasteLand
Posts: 100
Joined: 04 Jun 2018

Post 01 Oct 2021

Do i dare
disturb the universe?

----

this is the first version of Reason 12 i dared to install... i waited, but also RRP didn't show up in Ableton Live 11 Suite, so re-install, or Reason 12 was necessary.

no real issues so far. or none.. glitch-free. wish that you could zoom per window (3 screens...), but in the end it does not really matter.

gtx 1060 6gb, studio drivers by the way, amd system... (based upon a Ryzen 9 5900X), windows 21H2.

so i will run into issues, i guess, but the main thing, it works stable for the things i do, and need now, to finish projects. and work in Reason DAW, of course.. better for my eyes, yes! and finally, touchsceen is more usuable.. for the rack view.

o well my 2 cents that will disturb the universe, a very small ripple, but it can be measured.
Win 10 Pro. R11 suite + R12. Nektar Panorama p1. Ryzen 9 5900X, 32 Gb, 2xNVMe, 2xSSD, 1xHD, gtx 1060 6gb. Cubase Pro 11, Bitwig Studio 4, Reaper 6.x, Ableton Live 11 Suite.

https://soundcloud.com/sada-exposada

https://soundcloud.com/user-873737123

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EnochLight
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Post 01 Oct 2021

DNGmaestro wrote:
01 Oct 2021

GTX 1080 with latest drivers, which should be irrelevant seeing that it runs perfect in Reason 11 and everywhere else. Only Reason 12 is having problems. Besides it's not just me, a lot of people are having this and other issues.
It’s not irrelevant, as Reason now uses your GPU for all graphics processing - 11 and earlier did not. Previous versions didn't use the GPU so if there was an outdated OpenGL driver it didn't matter.

Also, I’m not suggesting other people aren’t having issues - I’m just trying to re-create YOUR issue since we both have Avenger. I have one suggestion to try: go into Reason Options and turn off “Show Navigators” and see if that stops your Avenger issue. Good luck.
Win 10 | Reason 12 |  Studio 1 4.6 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | Reactor 1TB SSD | RME Babyface Pro | Panorama P-4 | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, TR-8 7x7 Expansion, MX1, JX8P, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD

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cocoazenith
Posts: 84
Joined: 31 May 2015

Post 01 Oct 2021

Please make the Mac splash screen anti-aliased!
Screenshot 2021-10-01 at 12.20.36.png
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Pepin
Posts: 141
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

Post 01 Oct 2021

For some reason, I never see the splash screen anymore (also on Mac).
It just shows nothing until the default document comes up, which takes about 9 seconds.

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avasopht
Posts: 2757
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

Post 01 Oct 2021

rootwheel wrote:
01 Oct 2021
I work as a developer for a living; broadly speaking you're correct but code that was working previously usually only stops working when either a dependency changes or the code is altered and then not tested properly.
Well, not quite.

This is C++ where you can easily add new code that will make 100% bug-free code crash by simply overwriting over its data.

You can also alter the behaviour of buggy code by simply changing the memory arrangement. The older code is unlikely to have unit tests as thoroughly as newly added code (though old could have been refactored over the years).

By simply including files in a different order, or executing code in a different order, offending code can manifest a bug that had been shielded by the offending code simply not having any other memory allocated by another module to mess up.

It could be as simple as older code assuming buffer sizes based on 4-byte integer RGBA colours, but the OpenGL code, instead, making use of 16-byte RGBA floats.

There is a lot of room for things like this when switching to a completely new method of rendering where prior assumptions no longer apply.

It only takes one minor bug like this to cause havoc. Plus there are invisible bugs that might not manifest because the bug produced identical behaviour to what was desired, but in this new configuration, produces different inputs. And a massive restructuring as you are likely to see with a GUI rewrite to support GPU acceleration will break things.

From the outside, we have no idea what is going on. But it can easily be down to one or two small offenders like this.

Coincidentally, just as I completed the last sentence the Unreal Engine 4 Crash Reporter just popped up. I've never had this. I don't even have it open (it's just the UE Engine launcher that starts with Windows). This is the first time in 18 months that this has happened.

I blame it on Reason.

Disclaimer: I'm not suggesting that this is definitely the cause, but merely explaining how even one small bug in new code can break old systems and a few other details to explain some of the things that can be happening.
---

rootwheel
Posts: 82
Joined: 21 Aug 2021

Post 01 Oct 2021

avasopht wrote:
01 Oct 2021
rootwheel wrote:
01 Oct 2021
I work as a developer for a living; broadly speaking you're correct but code that was working previously usually only stops working when either a dependency changes or the code is altered and then not tested properly.
Well, not quite.

This is C++ where you can easily add new code that will make 100% bug-free code crash by simply overwriting over its data.

You can also alter the behaviour of buggy code by simply changing the memory arrangement. The older code is unlikely to have unit tests as thoroughly as newly added code (though old could have been refactored over the years).

By simply including files in a different order, or executing code in a different order, offending code can manifest a bug that had been shielded by the offending code simply not having any other memory allocated by another module to mess up.

It could be as simple as older code assuming buffer sizes based on 4-byte integer RGBA colours, but the OpenGL code, instead, making use of 16-byte RGBA floats.

There is a lot of room for things like this when switching to a completely new method of rendering where prior assumptions no longer apply.

It only takes one minor bug like this to cause havoc. Plus there are invisible bugs that might not manifest because the bug produced identical behaviour to what was desired, but in this new configuration, produces different inputs. And a massive restructuring as you are likely to see with a GUI rewrite to support GPU acceleration will break things.

From the outside, we have no idea what is going on. But it can easily be down to one or two small offenders like this.

Coincidentally, just as I completed the last sentence the Unreal Engine 4 Crash Reporter just popped up. I've never had this. I don't even have it open (it's just the UE Engine launcher that starts with Windows). This is the first time in 18 months that this has happened.

I blame it on Reason.
It's remarkable how from Reason 1.0 all the way through to Reason 10.4 - around 35 separate releases in total, nothing like this ever seemed to happen. But from Reason 11 through to now (which unbelievably is already 16 releases in total!) each one has had something pretty bad wrong with it somewhere in the code or a feature which worked in the previous release mysteriously stop working in the following release.

'Move Fast and Break Things' is a great philosphy; if you're actually moving fast. If we were getting loads of new features in the main app left right and centre, it would be more forgivable. But the latest Reason DAW, high resolution graphics aside, is really not that dissimilar to what it was 2 versions ago - it's just v10 was a hell of a lot more stable. As was clear from a recent huge Ableton Live single update changelog that was posted on here, comparatively Reason Studios are actually moving at a glacial pace but are somehow still doing the breaking things bit. Not a good combination.

DNGmaestro
Posts: 72
Joined: 20 Jan 2015

Post 01 Oct 2021

EnochLight wrote:
01 Oct 2021
DNGmaestro wrote:
01 Oct 2021

GTX 1080 with latest drivers, which should be irrelevant seeing that it runs perfect in Reason 11 and everywhere else. Only Reason 12 is having problems. Besides it's not just me, a lot of people are having this and other issues.
It’s not irrelevant, as Reason now uses your GPU for all graphics processing - 11 and earlier did not. Previous versions didn't use the GPU so if there was an outdated OpenGL driver it didn't matter.

Also, I’m not suggesting other people aren’t having issues - I’m just trying to re-create YOUR issue since we both have Avenger. I have one suggestion to try: go into Reason Options and turn off “Show Navigators” and see if that stops your Avenger issue. Good luck.
My point is, my setup works everywhere, besides Reason 12. It doesn’t matter if it uses gpu , software or whatever they want it to use. It should work perfectly, for everyone, end of story. This just shows a massive lack of testing and quality control. I mean, they saw the simple visual bug in the transport section and choose not to correct it, “to not let others waiting”. How much time would that take? What that does that about RS as a company right now? Makes no sense to me.

Support already suggested turning off “show navigators” option but it made no difference for me.

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