anyone else with Reason 12 OpenGL(?) issues/crashing/hanging

This forum is for discussing Reason. Questions, answers, ideas, and opinions... all apply.
Post Reply
User avatar
syzygianrrf9999
Posts: 36
Joined: 14 Aug 2018
Contact:

24 Sep 2021

Posting here b/c I opened two tickets with support and there's yet to be a solution, so just desperately trying to see if anyone else has had this (exact, or close to it) issue and been able to fix it.

Specs:
  • x64 Windows 10 Home 20H2 19042.1165 / x64 Windows 10 Home 21H1 19043.1237
  • Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-7700 CPU @ 3.60GHz 3.60 GHz
  • 32.0 GB RAM
  • NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050 Ti
VSTs/REs: a lot, far too many to count/list. All launch in Reason 11, whatever VSTs/REs I've had have never given me problems, for as long as they've existed in Reason.

Other software installed:
  • VCV Rack
  • Recycle 2.2.4
  • Audacity
Reason is my primary DAW and I do not use it as a plugin.

Reason 12 (upgrade version from 11 Suite) launches, I log in, and then it opens a document like the one pictured and simply hangs there; I've given it up to an hour to load. It does this every time, before/after reboot. No peripherals or control surfaces are or have been connected (I'm pressed for USB-real estate so they only get connected and used when I'm doing something performance-like, not for composition). I have ASIO4ALL installed but not currently in use. Rolled back to Reason 11 Suite and it continues to launch without issue.

I opened a ticket with support and was asked to download the troubleshooting logging version of 12... I gave them two logs, one attempting a standalone install, and another with the full install. In between attempts I also found an old version of Reason (10) and uninstalled it. I uninstalled and reinstalled the logging version and rebooted between attempts. I've left Reason 11 installed throughout to roll back to, and also b/c support has said they should be able to coexist without issue.

The logs grew to nearly 1GB in under a minute, both times, and all eventually started spamming this message indefinitely (which I'm including just in case someone else had better luck with support using the logging version after getting a similar error and checking the logs):

"Failed to render char: F022"

(I don't necessarily expect anyone here to know what to make of that but I attached a snippet of those logs for context, just in case someone does).

Since then, nothing from support, ticket's been open 20 days.

I keep reading on these forums about display issues that are caused by drivers, specifically OpenGL... (which is kinda infuriating that I'm having more trouble getting Reason to work due to graphics card driver issues than I had installing and configuring a Dolphin Wii emulator, but I digress). In all those situations I'm seeing its causing display issues were there's some minor issue with the graphics or like, the fonts are off or things are out of scale. For me, Reason don't even launch properly and is wholly unusable. As seen in the attached image I just get a white screen and then it just hangs and has to be killed.

(side note: I get that this was the "Hi-Res" update, and yeah, data-point of 1, but I personally - as a devoted 1.5 decade user of this software - do not give 3/8ths of a dusty f*** about graphics in my DAW, particularly not when that DAW already goes above and beyond in emulating physical hardware/patching/cabling. A wholly unnecessary feature that is causing far more problems than it solves, IMO. Screw the graphics. I'm making music. EOF.)

Tonight I did a bunch of Windows updates (hence the two OS versions listed above), and tried again - nothing.

Earlier when I'd read about the driver issues, I upgraded to 471.68-desktop-win10-win11-64bit-international-nsd-dch-whql for OpenGL. That made no difference. I can't recall what the previous version was. I tried two other OpenGL drivers from NVIDIA that I was able to find on their site (this was about two weeks ago):
  • 426.02_geforce_win10_64bit_international
  • 426.02_geforce_win10_64bit_dch_international
Tonight after upgrading the OS, I updated to/tried these. Still nothing:
  • 472.12-desktop-win10-win11-64bit-international-nsd-dch-whql
  • 472.12-desktop-win10-win11-64bit-international-dch-whql
Also, this doesn't happen on my MBP running OSX Catalina 10.15.6. Although earlier I had an issue there after upgrading to Big Sur 11.4 where Reason just crashed instantly upon launch with "assertion failed errors" - had to roll back to OSX 10.15 and have basically kept it there ever since. However that wasn't triggered by a Reason upgrade but an OS one. Anyway, my PC is a lot more powerful so I can really only work on projects of significant size there.

I've used Reason all my adult life, basically 15 years, since version 2.5, never had this kind of difficulty using new versions. The combi2 had me particularly excited, far more excited than most recent major upgrades, as I build tons of gigantic combis and have to use extra REs to get a proportionate level of control/parameter mapping.

If anyone has ANY kind of "I did this and it worked" solution please feel free to share, there's not much I'm above trying at this point.
Attachments
Reason 210915 125717-snippet.txt
(9.58 KiB) Downloaded 59 times
reason12.JPG
reason12.JPG (78.9 KiB) Viewed 1706 times
industrial/psycore/breakcore/electronic modular metal: https://soundcloud.com/rose-red-flechette

User avatar
syzygianrrf9999
Posts: 36
Joined: 14 Aug 2018
Contact:

30 Sep 2021

Sorry for the bump... just wondering if anyone has heard of any solutions to this or an issue like it. Even the upgrade to 12.2.1 didn't fix it. Still no reply from support either, going on a month of radio silence.

Should I just get a refund and give up?

Do I have any other options or avenues available to me?
industrial/psycore/breakcore/electronic modular metal: https://soundcloud.com/rose-red-flechette

Tweak
Posts: 125
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

30 Sep 2021

Here's my stab in the dark to attempt to help, since you appear to be the only one experiencing this, it suggests configuration, or data on your computer playing badly with the code in Reason (don't get me wrong, this is still a Reason problem ultimately, and will need a fix, but you might be able to get things working by having Reason disregard the dodgy character).

Using the error stated in the logs "Failed to render char: F022", it appears that Reason is trying to render a character and fails. So rather than assume this is an OpenGL or display issue (although I totally get why that might be an issue) lets instead consider where Reason renders characters, and in particular on startup. The obvious things to me that could be problematic here are:

1. Names of devices, or patches loaded in any initial template unique to your setup
2. Names of files or folders in your known locations or favourites

I know for (2) these are being scanned by an indexer on startup to try to make search more responsive, they also show in the browser. If a file or directory name contains a character that Reason doesn't like (this could be contained inside a Refill too, since these get scanned too), and Reason is not setup to handle the failure, it could just stop and hang. The fact the error states it cannot render the character, and the UI locks up is worry-some, as it suggests its not a problem with the indexing, but could be an issue with the browser.

How can we test to see if known locations and favourites are causing issues? Well I'd guess that Reason 12 tries to import and use the locations you specified in Reason 11 (that would prevent you from having to setup these things across versions). My guess is that if you delete your Reason 12 preferences, and temporarily change the location of your preferences for Reason 11 (so you can reinstate and still use Reason 11 as was), then start up Reason 12, it'll start from a blank canvas instead of importing anything incompatible from Reason 11. All this does is make sure that you can rule out copied configuration causing issues.

I hope that makes sense. you can find the locations of the preferences for Reason versions in the following thread:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7514631

When I say temporarily change the location of the preferences, I just mean renaming the folder they are contained in while Reason is closed.

Best of luck,

Marc

User avatar
plaamook
Posts: 2593
Joined: 22 Jan 2015
Location: Bajo del mar...

30 Sep 2021

Well, I’ve got similar probs on Mojave os.
Black screens instead of white for log in or preferences. Black screen trying to edit a label. Hangs, can’t scroll properly, a crash just doing basics like create device, load a patch, edit some text.
Contact support, run logging version, send logs, waiting...
But this is only from yesterday not for a month.
When I ran logging nothing happened, it just threw an assert right away. Couldn’t even open it.

Anyway I just dropped in to commiserate really. I can’t offer any solutions I’m afraid.

Should you go for a refund? Dunno. Sounds like you’re in it for the long haul like I am so not sure what the point is.
Better to stick w 11 and wait it out maybe.
Of course it’s possible you’ll never get a smooth running R12, or me for that matter. ( then I’ll just break their balls for a special deal on 13) but chances are they’ll sort it out. Eventually.
Perpetual Reason 12 Beta Tester :reason:

You can check out my music here.
https://m.soundcloud.com/ericholmofficial
Or here.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC73uZZ ... 8jqUubzsQg

User avatar
brand
Posts: 131
Joined: 11 May 2017
Location: New Jersey, US

01 Oct 2021

For perspective, my issue is on Mac (Mojave). Downloaded R12 upgrade, and installed. Open Reason: Splash screen = black. Main project screen flashes on and off about every 0.25 to 0.50 seconds, non-stop. Must quit Reason. So, impossible to use. Opened a ticket last Friday. Now it's Friday again, and I have had no response. I'm a little concerned because they say they "try to answer all incoming tickets within two business days."

This makes me wonder if there's too many tickets flying around over there.
I am back on R11, which I still had alongside. I do want this to be fixed, and I'm still a Reason fan. I'm assuming that in the fullness of time (whatever that means) the issues will be fixed. Meanwhile, I just gave $129 for broken software. So, I don't exactly have the warm and fuzzies over that. :(

User avatar
plaamook
Posts: 2593
Joined: 22 Jan 2015
Location: Bajo del mar...

01 Oct 2021

brand wrote:
01 Oct 2021
For perspective, my issue is on Mac (Mojave). Downloaded R12 upgrade, and installed. Open Reason: Splash screen = black. Main project screen flashes on and off about every 0.25 to 0.50 seconds, non-stop. Must quit Reason. So, impossible to use. Opened a ticket last Friday. Now it's Friday again, and I have had no response. I'm a little concerned because they say they "try to answer all incoming tickets within two business days."

This makes me wonder if there's too many tickets flying around over there.
I am back on R11, which I still had alongside. I do want this to be fixed, and I'm still a Reason fan. I'm assuming that in the fullness of time (whatever that means) the issues will be fixed. Meanwhile, I just gave $129 for broken software. So, I don't exactly have the warm and fuzzies over that. :(

I've got the same black screens but no flashing. Well, i didnt really have a chance to run it for long so maybe I'd get some flashing too!
I think the reason you're not hearing back is possibly that you've reported something they already know about. Dunno.
Do you have access to a logging version? I have a link but I don't know if I can share it. You need to send em the assert files if you can. That'll wake em up!

Can we add things like the logging versions to the 'Download Links' sticky? Mods? Props?
Considering the probs w 12 it might be handy. Dunno.
Perpetual Reason 12 Beta Tester :reason:

You can check out my music here.
https://m.soundcloud.com/ericholmofficial
Or here.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC73uZZ ... 8jqUubzsQg

User avatar
syzygianrrf9999
Posts: 36
Joined: 14 Aug 2018
Contact:

01 Oct 2021

Tweak wrote:
30 Sep 2021
Here's my stab in the dark to attempt to help...
Thank you. Some part of this worked for me. Unfortunately I was so annoyed/desperate that I went a bit overboard but I'll try and document what I did as best I can...

So I had already tried a fair amount of this (I'd deleted my program files folders for Propellerhead completely, and uninstalled basically every version of Reason on my PC, but I guess that leaves more leftovers than I'd realized)... so I basically went scorched earth on it.... well, almost.

Here's what I did:
  • Uninstalled Reason 11, Reason 12, and Reason 12 logging version, and rebooted.
  • I have a drive completely dedicated to my personal Reason related stuff... All my song files, all my patches, rex loops, midi files, all my refills, all my samples/audio files, and VSTs.. it all lives in a folder at that drive's root directory... I basically moved everything inside that folder, outside of it. Just up 1 on the directory path.
  • I uninstalled all of my rack extensions. (I don't know how many I have I just know its a LOT).
  • I followed that link you gave me and deleted everything. All app data and program files, everything from the music folder, etc.
  • I reinstalled Reason 11 first(I had a copy of ReasonSuite_1100_d475-Stable_122_383 lying around), then reinstalled Reason 12 on top of that (the latest version). I chose full install (even though I don't use the Reason rack plugin or anything like that). I chose default audio options and my default soundcard (no inputs).
And (perhaps more importantly) here's what I did not do, or didn't have to do:
  • Delete or uninstall any VSTs.
  • Delete or uninstall any other music software, including Recycle.
  • Delete or uninstall Authorizer or Codemeter.
  • Delete any refills other than the factory soundbanks.
  • I also have a dedicated swap/scratch drive that Reason and some other applications use. Nothing in here was touched.
Hopefully this can narrow things down for anyone having similar issues. I'm going to start one-by-one reinstalling my REs and testing, I'm ultra paranoid now that its working that its going to break again, but if I can take it slow maybe I can figure out if a particular RE is causing it...?
plaamook wrote:
30 Sep 2021
Well, I’ve got similar probs on Mojave os.
Black screens instead of white for log in or preferences. Black screen trying to edit a label. Hangs, can’t scroll properly, a crash just doing basics like create device, load a patch, edit some text.
Contact support, run logging version, send logs, waiting...
But this is only from yesterday not for a month.
Like I said I had this problem too... (the assert error I distinctly remember). Support was clueless. Catalina is the latest version of Mac OS that hasn't given me crap with Reason, I'm basically banning my Mac from updating indefinitely now. Time machine backup is your best option as far as I know. Its funny cause it did this with I think Big Sur back on version 11. Shame its still having problems on v12, I was considering maybe trying to run some OS updates on my Mac since Catalina seems to run v12 just fine. Oh well.

I will say that unlike the problems I was having on my PC I think the Mac stuff had more to do with the OS than Reason. Because it worked fine, and has continued to work fine even up to and including v12, so long as I stay on Catalina.
industrial/psycore/breakcore/electronic modular metal: https://soundcloud.com/rose-red-flechette

Tweak
Posts: 125
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

02 Oct 2021

Sounds like you took the kind of approach I might also have done, I'm glad my words gave you enough direction to get things sorted. Certainly for anyone else out there, a reinstall of Reason doesn't clean up your local preferences for the application, you have to search these out and change/delete them separately on both Mac and Windows. Clearing your local preferences is the first port of call for anyone whose Reason no longer starts up, or exhibits issues on startup, particularly if they were ever running the application properly and without problems initially.

User avatar
plaamook
Posts: 2593
Joined: 22 Jan 2015
Location: Bajo del mar...

02 Oct 2021

If reason doesn’t run on an os that it should it’s still a reason bug. For us the solution may be to pick a different os but it’s still their responsibility to sort out reason.

Either way I can’t face all that yet. I’m gonna wait a little longer for a reply.
Perpetual Reason 12 Beta Tester :reason:

You can check out my music here.
https://m.soundcloud.com/ericholmofficial
Or here.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC73uZZ ... 8jqUubzsQg

User avatar
syzygianrrf9999
Posts: 36
Joined: 14 Aug 2018
Contact:

02 Oct 2021

Postmortem:

I re-applied all of my preferences, and started reinstalling the 374 REs I have, in groups of 2 developers at a time, and restarting Reason in between.

By the time I was a little over halfway through these reinstalls, the big white document 1 window of death showed up for a full second at least... then went away. No idea what this means, but the rest of the reinstalls went over without issue and therefore its pretty conclusively those preferences files or some other leftovers.
Tweak wrote:
02 Oct 2021
Clearing your local preferences is the first port of call for anyone whose Reason no longer starts up, or exhibits issues on startup, particularly if they were ever running the application properly and without problems initially.
I'd heard that v12 didn't inherit v11's preferences somewhere, and this was seemingly confirmed b/c v12 asks you to set a soundcard, sample rate, etc. ...Combined with support telling me the two versions should be able to coexist... IDK I can't believe I hadn't considered this, otherwise I'd probably have hunted this down and tried sooner.
industrial/psycore/breakcore/electronic modular metal: https://soundcloud.com/rose-red-flechette

Post Reply
  • Information
  • Who is online

    Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 27 guests