My opinion if you're on the fence about upgrading before Oct 1

[joeyluck]

My intention is not to sound like a sales person, but just trying to help. I see many people saying they are on the fence and going to wait and see how things look by September 30. My main point here is that some people forget that there is a 30-day return policy through Reason Studios (or simply don't know it exists).

https://help.reasonstudios.com/hc/en-us ... ns-policy-

So on or before September 30, you can assess the situation then. There may likely be fixes (which are currently being tested) and there might be more to learn about with the roadmap. It will be the last day to upgrade for $129.

If you decide to upgrade, that will give you 30 days from that point to use R12 and get any updates throughout October including the "smart browser", as well as see what more we learn via any roadmap updates during the month of October.

Then, if you feel like it doesn't cut it, you can return it before the end of the 30 days.

I just thought it would be good for people on the fence to have that reminder September 30 doesn't have to be the last day in which you can judge the upgrade for yourself for $129.

[joeyluck]

I had also forgotten about the return policy myself.

I had recently contacted Expressive E about a trial for their new plugin, Imagine. They responded to tell me they didn't have a trial version and told me about their 30-day return policy... So that was a reminder for me.

[avasopht]

I think I might just go for an R11 Suite upgrade, that way I get Complex and don't have to worry about how stable or well R12 performs.

[Proboscis]

Let's break down how that might unfold

7 day trial version does not meet expectations, and expires in September
In good faith, a purchase is made on 30th September
On 30th October, Hi-res bugs are not fixed
Refund is issued

Per the roadmap (a plan, not a promise):
M1 ship support is implemented in December 2021
VST3 Support is implemented in January 2022

User wants to trial Reason+ to see if it's working, but:
Can't do so, because a trial has already been used
Can't expect to purchase a second time and expect a refund, because they've previously already had a refund.

And what of the other complications?
User trials Reason+ (because there is no Reason12 trial on offer) prior to September 30th
User trial includes the 'standard' devices under that license (ie all the RS RE's)
User, who decides to stay on their earlier version, but look to buy an RS RE, and cannot use the 30 day RE trial because it's been trialled under the Reason+ 7 DAYS trial. (we actually don't know how this last point will pan out)

[Majestik Monkey]

Even tho i have Updated to 12 ' & have been hit with some issues in regards to how R12 is Currently running on my Machine / Not so Smooth !?
[ in comparison to how R11 works on the Same system? ]

The issues aside '
I could not go back to The Old Graffix style LOOK ! Once seen never forgotten
& then there's Mimic, The kind of Sampler i like to work with especially now i am dipping my toes into HipHop style stuff' !?

I don't really know about giving advise on Purchasing the Update ' Obviously i have & with no Real Gripes , Just moving forwards with time

[ Mad Graffix Tho ]

[joeyluck]

Let's break down how that might unfold

7 day trial version does not meet expectations, and expires in September
In good faith, a purchase is made on 30th September
On 30th October, Hi-res bugs are not fixed
Refund is issued

Per the roadmap (a plan, not a promise):
M1 ship support is implemented in December 2021
VST3 Support is implemented in January 2022

User wants to trial Reason+ to see if it's working, but:
Can't do so, because a trial has already been used
Can't expect to purchase a second time and expect a refund, because they've previously already had a refund.

And what of the other complications?
User trials Reason+ (because there is no Reason12 trial on offer) prior to September 30th
User trial includes the 'standard' devices under that license (ie all the RS RE's)
User, who decides to stay on their earlier version, but look to buy an RS RE, and cannot use the 30 day RE trial because it's been trialled under the Reason+ 7 DAYS trial. (we actually don't know how this last point will pan out)

Demo mode is still an option. 7 day trial is only for full access (all RS REs and ability to use REs, ability to export and to open saved projects).

Also, RS reset trials with R12. Not saying they will reset them again during the run of R12, but not out of the question. But demo mode is always an option.

My suggestion is mostly to those on the fence who are going to make a judgement on Sept 30 to get it for $129. And I'm just pointing out that the refund option gets you 30 days beyond that while being able to lock in the $129 price. Of course you can wait longer and see if it's worth $199, this is for those who are on the fence about getting it at $129.

[Proboscis]

My suggestion is mostly to those on the fence who are going to make a judgement on Sept 30 to get it for $129. And I'm just pointing out that the refund option gets you 30 days beyond that while being able to lock in the $129 price. Of course you can wait longer and see if it's worth $199, this is for those who are on the fence about getting it at $129.

And what are the implications of trialling Reason+, and all of the RE's that come with Reason+ as standard devices ?

Will this register as having already trialled the REs, if one wants to trial them in future ?

I really think you need to have the answer to this before offering 'helpful advice' to suggest people take a 'good faith' leap under the refund policy.

The whole offering is dubious, and rather murky, where the line cannot be drawn between Reason+ (which can be trialled) and Reason12 (which cannot be trialled)

For what it's worth, I have just installed the Layers RE, as part of the Reason+ trial. In four days time, when the trial expires, I will see if I'm still able to trial Layers RE as a standalone product.

[joeyluck]

Use the demo mode if you want to assess R12. You can try all the features of R12 (Mimic, Combinator, graphics, browser). It includes all of the devices that are built into R12, but you can't use your additional REs in your account. You can test the performance of your VSTs though in demo mode.

The demo mode is how us old schoolers had to demo Reason over the years.

[Proboscis]

Use the demo mode if you want to assess R12. You can try all the features of R12 (Mimic, Combinator, graphics, browser). It includes all of the devices that are built into R12, but you can't use your additional REs in your account. You can test the performance of your VSTs though in demo mode.

The demo mode is how us old schoolers had to demo Reason over the years.

"Us old schoolers', hey....

I'm well aware of previous release iterations and the 'demo mode'. There was a time when I thought (for reasons I can't recall) that it was no longer an option, but a post from you a few days ago mentioned it's still a thing, hence why I even bothered downloading R+

It still doesn't address whether the R+ trial is going to burn the 30 day RE trial on devices one might install. But we'll find out soon enough, and I'll update this thread in four days if it's an issue.

As it stands , I DON'T KNOW. Do you know ?

[joeyluck]

Use the demo mode if you want to assess R12. You can try all the features of R12 (Mimic, Combinator, graphics, browser). It includes all of the devices that are built into R12, but you can't use your additional REs in your account. You can test the performance of your VSTs though in demo mode.

The demo mode is how us old schoolers had to demo Reason over the years.

"Us old schoolers', hey....

I'm well aware of previous release iterations and the 'demo mode'. There was a time when I thought (for reasons I can't recall) that it was no longer an option, but a post from you a few days ago mentioned it's still a thing, hence why I even bothered downloading R+

It still doesn't address whether the R+ trial is going to burn the 30 day RE trial on devices one might install. But we'll find out soon enough, and I'll update this thread in four days if it's an issue.

As it stands , I DON'T KNOW. Do you know ?

I'm not sure. I think they are handled separately? You could look at the shop pages for the REs that you haven't tried yet and see what they say.

James might be able to answer this.

[Proboscis]

I'm not sure. I think they are handled separately? You could look at the shop pages for the REs that you haven't tried yet and see what they say.

The shop page (when logged in) still gives me a 'download trial' option, which suggests that it's handled separately.

But..... and this is important... the Authorizer shows my install of Layers, despite being downloaded via Companion.

FWIW - Layers is not showing as an available instrument for use in Reason10, even though it's listed as an Authorizer download.

And.... as an owner of Parsec v1, I tried the 'upgrade to v2' button in Companion. It installed, but then neither v1 or v2 is available for use in Reason10 !

James might be able to answer this.

Sure, but I'm suggesting that *you* might square off any future implications before publicly imploring people to proceed in good faith under the consideration of a refund if deemed unsatisfactory. While you weren't focusing on the 7-day trial specifically, it stands to reason that a user, on the 19th September, might take up the trial, then the purchase, then the refund.

[Steedus]

I know questions like this are more for the Prop--er- RS to answer but how would the return policy work (if at all), if the upgrade was bought through another seller? ie: JRR

[Faastwalker]

If you like the R12 updates, buy before the end of the month. Simples Does it have to be more complicated than that?!

[Proboscis]

Does it have to be more complicated than that?!

well... it might be, around the handling of RE trials in future. I'll let the group know in four days, unless Joey happens to have an update before then.

[Proboscis]

And how many refunds can someone be granted, I wonder ?

For example:

A user takes up the 'good faith' pre-increase priced upgrade option, as Joey suggests
On the 19th October, a refund is claimed, and honored.

The RS roadmap 'plan, not a promise' is to address graphics 'In October'. That October day could be on the 30th.
The M1 support is a long way off (not that I have a Mac, just sayin')
VST3 is slated for a 2022 'maybe' (again, no VST3s here, just sayin')

If a user buys in again after the graphics fix, and its unsatisfactory, can a second refund be issued ?
Post-M1 support not to standards, buy in again, seek a third refund.
VST3 badly implemented, but a user has bought again, can a fourth refund be granted ?

It starts to become such a PITA, transferring money back and forth, that one may as well just suck it up and hope for the best.

[Jagwah]

Yeah I'll just wait to see what R13 brings, happy on R10 in the mean time. Was better off investing in some quality refills.

[Faastwalker]

Does it have to be more complicated than that?!

well... it might be, around the handling of RE trials in future. I'll let the group know in four days, unless Joey happens to have an update before then.

Generally RE trials are 30 days, which is plenty of time to decide on them or not to be honest. I think trials have been reset before, if I remember correctly. But not under the extraordinary circumstances your are suggesting.

[joeyluck]

And how many refunds can someone be granted, I wonder ?

For example:

A user takes up the 'good faith' pre-increase priced upgrade option, as Joey suggests
On the 19th October, a refund is claimed, and honored.

The RS roadmap 'plan, not a promise' is to address graphics 'In October'. That October day could be on the 30th.
The M1 support is a long way off (not that I have a Mac, just sayin')
VST3 is slated for a 2022 'maybe' (again, no VST3s here, just sayin')

If a user buys in again after the graphics fix, and its unsatisfactory, can a second refund be issued ?
Post-M1 support not to standards, buy in again, seek a third refund.
VST3 badly implemented, but a user has bought again, can a fourth refund be granted ?

It starts to become such a PITA, transferring money back and forth, that one may as well just suck it up and hope for the best.

This is specifically about getting the upgrade at $129. Beginning Oct 1, it will be $199. Are you suggesting someone would buy it at $129, get a refund and then buy it at $199? Ouch.

I saw some users saying they want to upgrade for $129, but weren't sure they will know enough by the end of the month. I was only pointing out the 30-day return policy for those people. We may see and hear more by the end of September, but those who buy it technically still have 30 days beyond their purchase date to assess the purchase they made for $129. That is all.

I know questions like this are more for the Prop--er- RS to answer but how would the return policy work (if at all), if the upgrade was bought through another seller? ie: JRR

I don't know the return policy for every retailer. I imagine if someone decides to buy from a third party vendor, it is to save even more money. You'll have to check with that retailer.

[Proboscis]

This is specifically about getting the upgrade at $129. Beginning Oct 1, it will be $199. Are you suggesting someone would buy it at $129, get a refund and then buy it at $199? Ouch.

Exactly, dude. Exactly ouch.

Jo Citizen follows your helpful advice, buys an upgrade license today, and has to decide whether it's worth it, despite there being (probably) not many improvements on October 19th.

Joe Citizen could seek a refund, but under the premise that any future re-purchase is going to be 50% more.

So Joe Citizen begrudgingly keeps his perpetual, $129 license in the 'hope' that there will be improvements.

And Bingo - ReasonStudios reconcile another payment into their books. Perhaps, in part to the influence of this thread.

It really does start to sound like an elaborate entrapment to bolster sales over the next two weeks.

[joeyluck]

This is specifically about getting the upgrade at $129. Beginning Oct 1, it will be $199. Are you suggesting someone would buy it at $129, get a refund and then buy it at $199? Ouch.

Exactly, dude. Exactly ouch.

Jo Citizen follows your helpful advice, buys an upgrade license today, and has to decide whether it's worth it, despite there being (probably) not many improvements on October 19th.

Joe Citizen could seek a refund, but under the premise that any future re-purchase is going to be 50% more.

So Joe Citizen begrudgingly keeps his perpetual, $129 license in the 'hope' that there will be improvements.

And Bingo - ReasonStudios reconcile another payment into their books. Perhaps, in part to the influence of this thread.

It really does start to sound like an elaborate entrapment to bolster sales over the next two weeks.

That sounds complicated.

Reason is $129 until Oct 1. There is a 30-day return policy through RS. There are some users trying to make what they think has to be a concrete decision by Sept 30. I'm just pointing out the flexibility they then have with the 30-day return policy through RS to make that decision later.

If they buy after Oct 1 it is $199. If they buy before Oct 1, but then return it and then for whatever reason decide to buy again, it is $199. What difference does it make at that point?

1. User A buys for $129, likes what they have and what they see through October, keeps it and has paid $129 total.
2. User B waits until after Oct 1, they buys it for $199. It cost them $199 total.
3. User C buys it for $129, decides to return it, and then buys it again sometime after Oct. 1 because they then see something they like. It cost them $199 total.

User B and C have paid the same amount.

[gullum]

1 more scenery would be just to buy the upgrade for 129 and continue using R11 until the road map is complete

[MrFigg]

It’s not entrapment. It’s not a scheme. It’s not a conspiracy theory. It’s a price rise. They’ve said the bugs are getting fixed. If you’ve already got it then the price rise isn’t an issue. If you don’t then you either decide whether you want it for €129 and buy it, wait to see if they’re lying to trick you then buy it for €199 when you see they’re not or you just don’t buy it at all.

[Lancaster]

Hi I am sticking with reason and want to stay up to date. I currently own reason 11 suite and thinking of switching to reason plus, just wondering what people recommend.

One question would be how often do rack extensions outside of the suite like Friktion, pattern mutator etc go on sale? At full price the cost does start adding up so maybe in the long run reason plus would be the better option.

[gullum]

Hi I am sticking with reason and want to stay up to date. I currently own reason 11 suite and thinking of switching to reason plus, just wondering what people recommend.

One question would be how often do rack extensions outside of the suite like Friktion, pattern mutator etc go on sale? At full price the cost does start adding up so maybe in the long run reason plus would be the better option.

Black Friday and may madness so 2 times a year

[guitfnky]

it's an option--but knowing anything about human behavior, it's not a great one. "buying" as a way to trial is most likely going to result in people just begrudgingly keeping the upgrade because they've already paid for it, and it's easier than the hassle of requesting a refund...even if it's not in a state for which they'd normally be willing to pay.