New Pricing for Reason 12 - Upgrades now 199 from 129

[gullum]

I was just thinking maybe RS shot themselves in the foot with price hikes regarding new Reason+ users. One of the good things about Reason+ is it gives new users an affordable "try before you buy" kinda thing. I can see people starting to like Reason so much that they decide to buy a perpetual license. But now buying a full Reason license got $100 harder. It would've been a good idea to keep the intro lite versions too. I believe this is why Reaper is so popular besides the features it have. The easier it is to get access to a product, the better chances of more people using it.

They are owned by private equity fund Verdane Capital IX.

They will maximise profit and squeeze they money out of us.

I said it when they were sold to verdane that we would see these typ of things.

This is just the beginning. They will find more ways to get our cash.

and when they see there is no more way to press the lemon they will sell and buy the next money machine

[AnotherMathias]

To include some REs for "free" does not make the R12 ride any smoother. Reason is not a buggy game in need of free DLC so we can forget its core functionality.
After binge-watching many many videos I came to the conclusion that I can upgrade my R11 Suite sequencer for a rock solid one with all we've ever asked for years included.
For $60.

Well, yes, but given the ugly situation they have found themselves in now, what's their best move to try to improve things?

I assume you mean to move to Reaper. I tried to like it several times, and for myself, ugh, what an unpleasant place to spend my time in! Sure, you can customize it and skin it to your own taste, but it's a bit like booking a cheap hotel room, and then having to design it and furnish it yourself.

[Oper-8]

They are owned by private equity fund Verdane Capital IX.

They will maximise profit and squeeze they money out of us.

I said it when they were sold to verdane that we would see these typ of things.

This is just the beginning. They will find more ways to get our cash.

I'd like anyone from Reason Studios to chime in here and talk about this specific point. Transparency, you know...

[jam-s]

No you don't have those and that's one of the major design flaws of Kong which would be easy to correct.

@RS: Pleas just add 16 direct stereo outputs (one for each pad) to the back of Kong and you'll make a lot of users happy. Looks like a low hanging fruit to me.

You can still route each pad individually though... Sure it will be easier if they added the 16 outputs but it can be done.

Yes you can, but only in mono and the next time you load another patch its all gone. So it's basically useless.

[jam-s]

Yeah and then you load another kit or patch and boom there goes your routing.

so? order of operations. get your kit squared away, then do your routing. you can still replace/edit individual pieces if you need to.

<sarcasm>This works incredibly well if you include exactly this workflow into your template project.</sarcasm>

[guitfnky]

so? order of operations. get your kit squared away, then do your routing. you can still replace/edit individual pieces if you need to.

<sarcasm>This works incredibly well if you include exactly this workflow into your template project.</sarcasm>

<neat>just keep finding tiny things that work exactly as you’d expect to complain about for some weird reason, I guess</>

[bxbrkrz]

To include some REs for "free" does not make the R12 ride any smoother. Reason is not a buggy game in need of free DLC so we can forget its core functionality.
After binge-watching many many videos I came to the conclusion that I can upgrade my R11 Suite sequencer for a rock solid one with all we've ever asked for years included.
For $60.

Well, yes, but given the ugly situation they have found themselves in now, what's their best move to try to improve things?

I assume you mean to move to Reaper. I tried to like it several times, and for myself, ugh, what an unpleasant place to spend my time in! Sure, you can customize it and skin it to your own taste, but it's a bit like booking a cheap hotel room, and then having to design it and furnish it yourself.

I bought Reaper for $39. It was around July 2007. Version 1.8. Mainly to try out some VSTs. I loved the project and the community.
Coming from Reason, looking at Reaper was like booking that room at the Bates Motel, the day after the police fished out the car from the nearby lake. Definitely a tool for recording and mixing, but not a tool inviting you for sound design. I used it with Rewire for a while, but that wasn't fun. I would render out the VSTs I needed and pop back in Reason. I never looked or used it again since Reason got VST.

2021. Nothing can touch Reason for sound design, imho, making beats fast, with a lovely and fun looking world. But now that Reason is a VST, all the updates I was looking for in the sequencer are baked in Reaper. Looking at Reaper 6, from where I was around version 2 or 3, is amazing to me.




https://www.reaper.fm/videos.php#Ao0FdtHJGR8 >This is REAPER 6<

[MuttReason]

I have a lot of sympathy for RS. They're a small business, and at a human level I bet they're pushing themselves incredibly hard right now.

How in terms or a software company are they small? I think I heard they have around 50 staff?

They’re at 43 employees now (according to James) up from around 20-30 employees a few years ago. Any company with under 50 employees would be classed as a small business. And their leading competitors are much bigger…. for example Ableton has (IIRC) almost 10x the number of employees as RS. Don’t know the numbers for Logic or Cubase but both are part of a much bigger whole (gigantically so in Logic’s case, obviously) and will probably benefit from economies of scale as a subsidiary of a multinational corporation.

Yes, a lot of music software firms are tiny (and many are just solo operators) but even with 43 employees, RS are only really a minnow as businesses go. There’s not much slack in a business that small when dealing with a global product launch (and fixing a bunch of bugs that should’ve been fixed before that global product launch….).

I’ve worked for startups and SMEs and I’ve worked for multinationals. Life is tough in a small business when the pressure is on. You haven’t got loads of people to divert from the day job to fix the problem and you don’t have big budgets to fly in expert teams to sort stuff quickly. It’s hard, at a personal level. Relentless in fact. I think their VC owners have made some dumb short-term decisions, and the obduracy of the Props/RS in ignoring user feedback on basic missing DAW capabilities for YEARS is pretty infuriating. But that doesn’t mean they’re some faceless corporate monolith…. they are a small group of people, and I bet they’re run ragged at the moment.

[Social Exodus]

Some thoughts and observations:

• I think many people here think that they are the only users of Reason and the only ones' whose opinion matters. Basically screw getting anyone new into this game. My Millennial grandson lives with me and I can tell you for certain their world looks nothing like mine or his parents and so the ways to reach them is way different now.

• From everything I've seen from the Props in terms of responses here and the general roadmap just provided suggests to me that they are asking us long time users to trust them and pay $129 to show that trust. It's a leap of faith. The real question is do I believe in the company and its' representatives like Ryan, Mattias and James enough to bet on them to deliver?:

• I don't think they are trying to tell us anything by their timing. It simply a matter of the market is tough for a lot of people right now. The days of quality releases year over year are pretty much gone now that the competition is thick as black flies on a hot summer day.

• There are plenty of quality DAWs out there now, many of them less money or free. Reaper, Cakewalk, FL Studios for example. Reason Studios knows this all too well. Why does anyone think that the RPP came along to begin with? It creates a niche market in case they are otherwise overcome by events as a primary DAW competitor

So in the end, we are being asked to bet on this company and trust that the people who created this software can right the ship. Reason is just different, end to end compared to other competition. It looks, feels and runs differently. That means they are forced to reinvent the wheel in order to "follow the crowd", and try to make these features fit into the overall scheme of Reason, It's either that, or give up the ghost in my opinion.

$0.02

[kitekrazy]

The pay what you want was for all Reason users and was a promo for Reason 6, which introduced Rack Extensions.

Not exactly for all Reason users, wasn't it so that you had to have Record as well?

From the release of Reason 6

"The Pay What You Want offer for the Reason 6 upgrade is extended to all registered owners of both Record and Reason (Duo) with a Propellerhead Ignition Key. The promotion starts upon Reason 6’s release on September 30 and goes through October 31, 2011...
Reason 6 will be available for purchase on September 30, 2011 at the following suggested retail pricing:

Reason 6 EUR €405 / USD $449

Reason 6 Upgrade (from any Reason version and Reason Essentials) EUR €149 / USD $169

Reason 6 Upgrade from Record-Reason Duo before October 31, 2011 Pay What You Want (starting at €1.00 / $1.00)"

Btw, I bought Reason from you in 2010

That was the name of the program I couldn't remember. Something was going on that created the pay what you want.

[Neo]

• From everything I've seen from the Props in terms of responses here and the general roadmap just provided suggests to me that they are asking us long time users to trust them and pay $129 to show that trust. It's a leap of faith. The real question is do I believe in the company and its' representatives like Ryan, Mattias and James enough to bet on them to deliver?:

$0.02

Agree mate. Faith tested alright.
Why do i get the feeling we will get an update patch after the price jump..

$177.54 AUD

[exxx]

How much longer do you have to be deceived before you realize you have been deceived?

Reason studio is now trying to make sales on the books look good while only thinking of selling the company without touching the complex DAW functions.

[avasopht]

How much longer do you have to be deceived before you realize you have been deceived?

Reason studio is now trying to make sales on the books look good while only thinking of selling the company without touching the complex DAW functions.

It's highly unlikely they've had the developers twiddling thumbs and demanding they don't wwork for the last two years.

Especially since we can see they have been working on various things (including Friction, Algoritm and Mimic).

They also explained how high Res required then to overhaul the codebase.

They might not have any sufficiently skilled GUI/GPU developers (and it is a very distinct skillset), which could make it a much more involving effort.

The are technical considerations that can only be approached through trial and error across thousands of machines.

At the same time there will be the features they've been working on that just were not ready for release but are on the roadmap (or could be a surprise).

You just wouldn't know from the outside.

[R303]

There are so many discussions about the company's policy, it's funny. I have less sympathy or understanding, because it is simply more than 50% price increase. The frustration is justified for me, the upgrade is also not worth 199 EUR. I'm already waiting for next big thing in communication. For such a small company, the way of external representation is already very risky.

And apparently the heart of it, the product, is fraught with more problems than before.

[R303]

But I also understand the simplicity of one price for all via retailers. Have you ever searched to buy other DAWs? It gets very confusing browsing the 20 or 30 something options to upgrade from every version number and every iteration.

This is also because the Marginal Costs of software are almost zero, so an additional unit costs nothing in production. Which means, one license more is easier to build than a physical product. Since the box is eliminated from R12, these other costs are also eliminated.

It’s usually less effort to create and sell (here even for the anonymous market) different versions from a software and it's an opportunity to get users who don’t want to pay much (low entry barrier).

[joeyluck]

But I also understand the simplicity of one price for all via retailers. Have you ever searched to buy other DAWs? It gets very confusing browsing the 20 or 30 something options to upgrade from every version number and every iteration.

This is also because the Marginal Costs of software are almost zero, so an additional unit costs nothing in production. Which means, one license more is easier to build than a physical product. Since the box is eliminated from R12, these other costs are also eliminated.

It’s usually less effort to create and sell (here even for the anonymous market) different versions from a software and it's an opportunity to get users who don’t want to pay much (low entry barrier).

True, but I'm sure you also have to consider how many users you keep around when they miss a version or two, and then feel too far behind in price tier to upgrade.

I think two tiers though is good and manageable. One for people coming from the last version and another for those coming from any version older than the last version.

But as I mentioned, if they add Reason to the rewards section, this would sort of alleviate that. If you bought Reason 11, you have 20 extra points. So it naturally works towards rewarding that user...if only the Reason upgrade was in the rewards shop.

[electrofux]

They clearly want to push the perpetuals over to + which will not happen with alot of people. Though it means you actually get more when using + over an update a year. Thats why the increase is so steep. It shouldnt be economically feasable to stay perpetual.

The increase is obviously too high for what is on offering for 1 update. I will probably leave out an update in the future which i havn't done often in the past, maybe once or twice.

Honestly the longer i think about it the more pissed i am. Not because of the 199 but because of all the talk when they introduced R+ to calm the masses. "There will allways be a perpetual license etc etc". And now the update costs exactly the amount of the 1 year subscription. I think they fucked us here - not even a year after R+ was introduced. It is pretty much in your face, they didnt even bother hiding the strat by doing increases slowly. The whole thing is very dissappointing tbh.

[whitewolfmusic]

Just a quick stupid question, I have read the shortcut "RPP" so often now, but dammit, what does it stand for? I hate shortcuts.

[avasopht]

Just a quick stupid question, I have read the shortcut "RPP" so often now, but dammit, what does it stand for? I hate shortcuts.

Recommended Retail Price
Reason Rack Plugin

[whitewolfmusic]

Just a quick stupid question, I have read the shortcut "RPP" so often now, but dammit, what does it stand for? I hate shortcuts.

Recommended Retail Price
Reason Rack Plugin

Thanks

[joeyluck]

This is a great example of some calm and collected thoughts and criticisms about Reason 12, the price change, etc.

[AttenuationHz]

Just a quick stupid question, I have read the shortcut "RPP" so often now, but dammit, what does it stand for? I hate shortcuts.

RPP Radio Programas del Perú
RPP Relaciones Públicas (Spanish: Public Relations)
RPP Rada Polityki Pienieznej (Polish: Monetary Policy Council)
RPP Rassemblement Populaire pour le Progrès (French: People's Rally for Progress; political party; Djibouti)
RPP Raw Portable Pixel
RPP Report on Plans and Priorities
RPP Registered Pension Plan
RPP Religion Past and Present (encyclopedia)
RPP Reassignment Preference Program (US IRS)
RPP Rate Pressure Product
RPP Regulated Price Plan (Ontario Energy Board)
RPP Rental Partnership Program (military housing)
RPP Reflecting on Peace Practice
RPP Respiratory Pathogen Panel
RPP Respiratory Protection Program
RPP Residential Permit Parking
RPP Radiation Protection Program
RPP Remote Power Panel (electrical power distribution panel)
RPP Registered Polarity Practitioner (elemental reflexology)
RPP Rancangan Peraturan Pemerintah (Indonesian: government draft regulation)
RPP Rencontre de Physique des Particules (French: Particle Physics Conference)
RPP Rastriya Prajantra Party (Nepal)
RPP Radon Proficiency Program
RPP Residential Parking Program
RPP Registered Professional Planner (Canada)
RPP Regional Partnership Programme (various locations)
RPP River Protection Project
RPP Recreational Pilot Permit
RPP Research Protection Program (various schools)
RPP Retirement Protection Plus
RPP Refined Petroleum Products
RPP Reasonably Prudent Person
RPP Reverse Pension Plan
RPP Rich People's Problems
RPP Republican Peoples' Party (Turkey)
RPP Rape, Pillage and Plunder
RPP Reliability Program Plan
RPP Random Phase Plate
RPP Return Preparer Program (IRS)
RPP Radiological Pilot Project (US FEMA)
RPP Reliability Prediction Procedure
RPP Regional Priority Program
RPP Rapid Photothermal Processing
RPP Reference Power Plant
RPP Regional Priority Plan
RPP Risley Prism Pair
RPP Rating of Perceived Pain
RPP Retrograde Processing Point
RPP Reverse-Pair Positioning
RPP Retail Price Protection
RPP Retail and Provider Perspectives
RPP Remote Presentation Protocol
RPP Retail Plastics Plus (UK)
RPP RAM Program Plan
RPP Requisition Processing Point
RPP Resuming Play Procedure (basketball; protocol for handling free throws and throw-ins)
RPP Radio Packet Processor
RPP Reverse Plane Partition (enumerative combinatorics)
RPP Reliability-Prediction Prioritization
RPP Registered Payroll Professional
RPP Ramified Poisson Process
RPP Randomized Power-Control Policy
RPP Rural Provider Project
RPP Resources Protection Plan/Posture
RPP Rassemblement pour le Progrès Populaire (Djibouti, People's Progress Assembly)
RPP Regulation and Planning Policy
RPP Reverse Parallel Park

[WOO]

The increased upgrade price and the problems with 12 is forcing me to take my foot of the "Gas". I'm happy with 11 suite that I bought while it was still available. It has more than enough goodies to keep me busy for years to come if need be! I'm waiting until they have a sale on the fully fleshed out version 12.

[whitewolfmusic]

I must say, the price increase is a unlikeable move the way it was timed and presented. Again, not the fact THAT the price gets increased, and if future upgrades are truly exciting, I can even see myself paying those 199 (money). But on short notice, putting pressure on people, after a new version release instead of with it, and at times where people are not happy with the current release. Here's my experience / thoughts / situation: I loved Reason until version 7.5 and then started skipping versions, as I explored other DAWs and didn't like the direction Reason took. I upgraded when VST support came around, but skipped 11 again. Recently, I decided to upgrade to 12, as I wanted Reason as a plugin and together with Mimic, the HD remake, Beatmap and Drum Sequencer, there were enough things I was interested in to make the jump. Even though I still kinda hate the flat DAW look since version 8. But I want to use the plugin anyways.
The thing is, that price increase along with that scummy, pressuring presentation (better upgrade quickly or enjoy 54% higher cost) almost made me refund. I don't like being pushed into something by pressure, and there are more professional ways to introduce a price increase. At least a month in advance, so people can save up and make a clear decision. And along with a new product version, not in the middle of it. I decided to keep the upgrade, so I can use Reason for the foreseeable future as a plugin and enjoy the rack again. But I'll be honest: If future versions don't offer some really attractive features and improvements, I'll not upgrade at all. 199 Euros is more than some really awesome DAWs cost to purchase, and the features better be amazing for an upgrade. If the price had to be increased, I'd have gone with 149, maximum 169. Just saying. A subscription is an absolute NO from my side. But since some Reason staff mentioned, they are aware of the fact they can't please everyone, I guess I'm not part of the customer base they aim for anymore.

The blog post said the pricing increase is to develop all the features we keep asking about and maybe even to wow us with more. Go ahead, wow me.

[raymondh]

Good video. I agree that we should pay for updates. But the remarkable timing of the big price increase is very strategic and demonstrates a complete lack of empathy for their customers.

They have officially moved from using the carrot, to using the stick. (presumably because users are complaining that the carrot isn't ripe yet)