New Pricing for Reason 12 - Upgrades now 199 from 129

[fieldframe]

Thanks Stephen! Tiered pricing for Reason+ is absolutely on our radar, just still working through all the different permeations and possibilities.

Hi James, thought I'd chime in here regarding tiered pricing. I think getting rid of the Suite option was a mistake. I had R11 Suite and would've gladly upgraded to an R12 Suite option with Algorith and Friktion included, or essentially a Reason + that I can own. A lot of people here place value on owning our software rather than subscribing to it and having our projects stuck behind a paywall so to speak. Anyways, cheers to you guys and don't take the feedback to personally here. A lot of us are passionate about seeing Reason succeed!

I agree with 100% of this.

As I said elsewhere in the thread, the new pricing is within the range I had once anticipated for a Reason 11 Suite to Reason 12 Suite upgrade. It's a real disappointment that Suite was discontinued so soon after it was introduced! It would have been the perfect way to introduce a new upgrade tier.

[Creativemind]

199€ for a bunch of bugs?
Ok.

It's the diet we should all be moving towards seeing as the impact of meat production is so costly to the environment.

[kbard]

WOW, just WOW.
The plot thickens...

No it doesn't. We don't need drama fire here. Sure these are ups and downs of being loyal to someone who changed overtime.

I am not marginalizing anything I am still on the fence to upgrade. It's not the money it's me being worried with my own psychological projections based on Reason Studios behavior.

First we have CEO laying down big plans and publishing roadmap and plans but then week later there is price hike which was somehow missed being pointed out in road plan or upgrades are selling so bad that they want to fetch money before people spend it on black friday sales.

Like do I want invest in a company software which somehow decided that one of their main selling point (literally) is in attracting users by selling them "sound packs" every week.

I wouldn't be so concerned about those if they were not so outrageously bad. I am not having high opinion on my skills I really don't - trust me I am being honest here when I say that 99% of sound packs at this point of time sounds like way worse then I could spit out. And I am like nobody. The times when I was in awe listening some refills are gone now.

My point is - it appears as if outflow of knowledge happened somewhere at some point and now they are experimenting with ridiculously bad marketing adventures and allowing mediocre content to be sold under their cap.

[tc13]

I wouldnt think that any company ever, really would make their prices a lot higher if things was looking bad. Quite the opposite would be the normal reaction, if things are going bad then you see a lot of reduction in prices.

[Creativemind]

So... just speculating, let's say I upgrade to Reason 12 (I'm currently on R10), and the performance for me sucks (as happens to many others here), can I "downgrade" to Reason 10 later ? Or when upgrade I "lost" the old license?
I'm upgrading since R6 but never in my mind cross the idea to "downgrade" but this time I'm not sure... is possible to install R12 as demo and keep R10 installed on the same computer ? , I'm really worry about performance on my current setup with this new version

Thanks

You should be able to downgrade to all old versions in your upgrade path.

I've have a boxed version of Reason 6.5 I wouldn't mind installing just to use the Line 6 Amps but no disc drive on my PC, is there a way to install it?

[ravasb]

I can't think of another company who makes a product I like, but whose business practices I loathe. I am kicking myself for subscribing. I should have stayed at 11 and just bought the one or two REs that I didn't have. This subscription is a terrible value for long time customers who have consistently upgraded and bought a number of the REs. This is my fault for going for it, thinking that the Reason people would provide significant value for its loyal customers. I honestly don't know where that idea came from. My bad.

[AttenuationHz]

You should be able to downgrade to all old versions in your upgrade path.

I've have a boxed version of Reason 6.5 I wouldn't mind installing just to use the Line 6 Amps but no disc drive on my PC, is there a way to install it?

Option 1: buy an external disk drive, they're not expensive.
Option 2: just download the install https://www.reasonstudios.com/download/ ... =reason651
Option 2a: just download the soundbanks https://www.reasonstudios.com/download/ ... =reason653

[Creativemind]

What?! I thought £129 was pushing it. There is no freaking way I'm paying £199 for a Reason update, ever. Lol.

I know, they would seriously have to start putting some big things and plenty of things in it as well at that price for me. Like a good few small workflow enhancements, 2 or 3 big workflow enhancements + a device update and a new device.

[Creativemind]

Have you ever searched to buy other DAWs? It gets very confusing browsing the 20 or 30 something options to upgrade from every version number and every iteration.

They only need 3 tiers though. Tier 1 - coming from the previous version (lowest price), tier 2 - coming from 2 versions & tier 3 - coming from 3 versions ago or more (highest price.)

Do other daw's have more tiers than that?

[kitekrazy]

I wouldnt think that any company ever, really would make their prices a lot higher if things was looking bad. Quite the opposite would be the normal reaction, if things are going bad then you see a lot of reduction in prices.

I'm not sure where you got that idea. All you have to do is look at developers whose products were for elites only. I could list plenty that doesn't support your statement. This is pretty much the only DAW developer that has done this. As for plugins look at Waves, IK, Sample libraries - VSL, 8dio, Spitifre.

I see desperation in this case. The fact they had to share a "road map" says things are not going well. I have licenses of 9 other DAWs. No road map and no price increase. They only one that does this is Tracktion. If you skip an upgrade they make you pay more. I'm sure that will be next on the RS agenda.

The higher ups that invested in RS are quire clueless how competitive this market is. I wouldn't be surprised with their attempts for qiick cash they dump RS to someone else.

[esselfortium]

I'm not sure where you got that idea. All you have to do is look at developers whose products were for elites only. I could list plenty that doesn't support your statement. This is pretty much the only DAW developer that has done this. As for plugins look at Waves, IK, Sample libraries - VSL, 8dio, Spitifre.

???

Waves in particular is the poster child for audio companies doing firesale discounts to make quick cash while completely devaluing their product line in the process, making once-premium products into "we'll pay you to take it away". Meanwhile IK is doing a, what was it, "buy one and get 25 products free" deal? That is what you do when you prioritize quick cash over all else.

[kitekrazy]

Yes! This is quite an increase. In such short notice. 129 to 199. I’ll take out my crystal ball and predict that Reason Studios will finally have their first half price upgrade sale next year - just like Studio One and others do. So 99 won’t look so bad. Enoch! Set your calendar.

I wouldn't count on it. They would offer sales on RE's instead.

[kitekrazy]

Have you ever searched to buy other DAWs? It gets very confusing browsing the 20 or 30 something options to upgrade from every version number and every iteration.

They only need 3 tiers though. Tier 1 - coming from the previous version (lowest price), tier 2 - coming from 2 versions & tier 3 - coming from 3 versions ago or more (highest price.)

Do other daw's have more tiers than that?

No. I've never heard of 20 or 30 something options and I've researched buying other DAWs. That was totally made up.

[jamespember]

Hi James, thought I'd chime in here regarding tiered pricing. I think getting rid of the Suite option was a mistake. I had R11 Suite and would've gladly upgraded to an R12 Suite option with Algorith and Friktion included, or essentially a Reason + that I can own. A lot of people here place value on owning our software rather than subscribing to it and having our projects stuck behind a paywall so to speak. Anyways, cheers to you guys and don't take the feedback to personally here. A lot of us are passionate about seeing Reason succeed!

I agree with 100% of this.

As I said elsewhere in the thread, the new pricing is within the range I had once anticipated for a Reason 11 Suite to Reason 12 Suite upgrade. It's a real disappointment that Suite was discontinued so soon after it was introduced! It would have been the perfect way to introduce a new upgrade tier.

Hey! Thanks both of you for the input re: Suite. Whilst we agree it was a great product, it also caused a tonne of confusion. It was never really clear whether Suite was a "one time bundle" or a "always get the latest stuff" product. So, when Friktion came out a year after Suite, some expected it to be included, even if others understood that Suite was a "get all our REs at the time of release" product. Then, I mean, of course, we could have had a Reason 12 Suite that bundled the rest in (Friktion, Algoritm, Pattern Mutator etc), but we made a decision to have Reason+ be the option if you want everything, always. Thanks though for your input, do appreciate it.

[DJMaytag]

They only need 3 tiers though. Tier 1 - coming from the previous version (lowest price), tier 2 - coming from 2 versions & tier 3 - coming from 3 versions ago or more (highest price.)

Do other daw's have more tiers than that?

No. I've never heard of 20 or 30 something options and I've researched buying other DAWs. That was totally made up.

Cubase is like that, with all kinds of options for upgrading, and a "penalty" applied for skipping releases. To make it even worse, I upgraded from Cubase Artist 8.5 to Cubase Pro 9 and instantly regretted it, and there's no way to upgrade back from an older Cubase Pro to a newer Cubase Artist. IF that was the case, I might be inclined to try RRP, but until then... F Steinberg.

[avasopht]

Well, if we're being honest with ourselves, this industry is not financially viable and is hanging by a thread.

There are theoretical limits to how good acoustic instruments can get.

Whatever future synthesis innovations may be possible, we seem to be on an unending plateau.

So this generation of keyboard workstations and Kontakt libraries might mark the terminal point. There may be no further need for more interpretations of the same old acoustic instruments.

There's room for vocal synthesis, but other than that we may be at the point of diminishing returns when it comes to sound libraries.

As for DAWs - there's only so many groundbreaking features they can introduce before it becomes routine maintenance.

Microsoft Office reached that point 10 years ago. Sure, there have been updates, but none of them was essential. The application had reached its point of diminishing returns.

A DAW is something that a cash-rich company makes. If you're not creaming with dollar bills like NI, or splashing the cash like Yamaha and Presonus, you'll always be dancing on thin ice.

As for Reason; 9.5 and R10 were critical updates that brought us VSTs. I'm uber content with these and can afford to skip upgrades because it does enough of what I want. Whether I upgrade or not, I'll still be making the same music and wouldn't feel like R10 was holding me back.

And we've been like this for the last 10 years.

NI's Komplete has added lots of new content since 2011, but what they had in 2011 (or at least 2013) was hot enough to not need to worry about future versions.

DAWs were pretty well established in the late 90s, with some UI modernization in the early 00s (if we ignore VST support).

Basically, what I'm saying is that this is a tough business to be in because it's one where updates aren't really that important for the user because the tools are so advanced now. Yeah, I know you've all got lots of feature requests, but if we're being honest with ourselves, we're pretty well taken care of at the moment.

It's the same thing with hardware.

[kitekrazy]

No. I've never heard of 20 or 30 something options and I've researched buying other DAWs. That was totally made up.

Cubase is like that, with all kinds of options for upgrading, and a "penalty" applied for skipping releases. To make it even worse, I upgraded from Cubase Artist 8.5 to Cubase Pro 9 and instantly regretted it, and there's no way to upgrade back from an older Cubase Pro to a newer Cubase Artist. IF that was the case, I might be inclined to try RRP, but until then... F Steinberg.

Cubase is not really like that. They do have options to upgrade some of their built in stuff like Halion. They also offer 50% on upgrades annually. They are the only ones that want you to pay for a .5 update. Reason isn't even in the same league as Cubase as a DAW. I have Cubase 11 Pro sitting on a system and rarely touch it. Their licensing is not very flexible since it takes a dongle. I have Reason installed on 3 machines and only require an internet connection on 2 of them. I'm not a fan of Steinberg's licensing.

[Aquila]

So I've had a day or so to think about it, and I can't help but wonder why RS didn't apply this pricing right at the start of the V12 launch? They could've even had the current £129 price bracket as a limited introductory offer.

Instead it feels like either a desperate cash grab, or a snide retaliation to those of us who are holding out on upgrading. In fact it feels kind of like this:

RS: "Here's V12, please upgrade"
Us: "Not just yet thanks, we'll wait for bugfixes/feature improvements"
RS: "That's not what we want you to do. UPGRADE NOW OR SUFFER A PRICE INCREASE! RAHHH!"

Then this will probably happen...

Us: "Well ok, we won't upgrade at all then"
RS: "Oh shit. We hadn't thought of that"

[gullum]

You should be able to downgrade to all old versions in your upgrade path.

I've have a boxed version of Reason 6.5 I wouldn't mind installing just to use the Line 6 Amps but no disc drive on my PC, is there a way to install it?

https://www.reasonstudios.com/download/reason6

[easyrider]

499 for R12?

Lol

[Creativemind]

Those are all price rises so I have no idea where this "we have never changed more in 20 years" crap has come from.

They don't know their product too well sometimes 'cause when the "return to start position on stop" was introduced they called it the cursor when it's actually called the Song Position Pointer.

[Oper-8]

What a strange company...
- they never listen to their users ;
- they never communicate ;
- they never reply to any comments except praises ;
- they never add sensible, logical or useful features since years ;
- then they suddenly sell a meager, unfinished (but never admitting it was) upgrade, charging full price ;
- and publish a "we're listening now" blog post, asking users to send suggestions (so that everyone falls in the trap) ;
- but immediately explain that, because we want features, they'll cost us $199 each time.
Props, are you kidding us ? What's the goal here ? To lose more users than ever ?
I mean, do they really expect us to stay on board ? And will R+ subscribers keep on paying more as well ?

[tc13]

...and of course they prefer subscribers now, specially since last friday!

Many new forum members since then?

[avasopht]

What a strange company...
- they never listen to their users ;
- they never communicate ;
- they never reply to any comments except praises ;
- they never add sensible, logical or useful features since years ;
- then they suddenly sell a meager, unfinished (but never admitting it was) upgrade, charging full price ;
- and publish a "we're listening now" blog post, asking users to send suggestions (so that everyone falls in the trap) ;
- but immediately explain that, because we want features, they'll cost us $199 each time.
Props, are you kidding us ? What's the goal here ? To lose more users than ever ?
I mean, do they really expect us to stay on board ? And will R+ subscribers keep on paying more as well ?

Erm,

1. They communicate fairly often. RS staff appear in red.
2. They've responded directly to many highly critical and negative posts this week.
3. They have admitted it was unfinished, explaining in this forum that it was released early so that we could see what they were working on.

Note: I'm not defending them. But three of those statements are provably false.

[dvdrtldg]

I'm just going to keep doing what I've been doing for the last few upgrades: waiting until the upgrade goes on sale

It means you have to... you know, wait. But waiting is really no problem, once you stop feverishly looking out for the next new thing and just concentrate on your music

I do all my buying now at May Madness and Black Friday. I still get everything I want, just 6 to 12 months late and at a discount (sometimes a huge discount). It's fine, I recommend it